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can anyone translate?
details are still sketchy
basically that's the Prime Minister's offices on a busy square next to the largest newspaper (VG) offices
the norwegian for explosion is "eksplosjon"
i shouldnt
But I couldn't help it.
the article says
the street behind the Prime Minister's offices is burning (on fire I guess)
Lots of people seriously injured and crying and in a state of shock in the streets
Jeebers
http://www.aftenposten.no/nyheter/iriks/article4180673.ece?service=bildeviser&nr=0&felt=title
bbc link
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-14252515
is he okay is he okay, was he even there?
please someone with a tv tell me he's okay. fuck fuck fuck i feel so sick.
He is safe
according to Norwegian TV2
he is safe, but looking very sweaty
oh jesus christ
just seen the images. i cant find anything about him. shaking so much jesus christ i need to know he's okay, please someone.
Chill
oh god twitter you better be right twitter
please be right. shit. crying so much still. oh god fuck fuck fuck. i can't believe this.
are you translating or do you have a loved one over there?
if it's the latter, obvs hope he's okay
well yes i fucking love jens stoltenberg so much so so so much
i want something official. is there anything official yet? actually crying more now. and i think i'm about to throw up.
Norwegian State Broadcaster are reporting that he's safe
o..............k.............
hmm
reports of a 2nd blast
hmmm
No
(Brief) video footage of afterwards:
http://www.twitvid.com/RQNBF
Fuck hope whiterussian's ok
i think i'm going to wait until some details on this have emerged.
reports (hopefully incorrect) of a second explosion
yeah whiterussian and me
maybe someone else? Not sure. I am ok. It looks horrible. A friend that lives down there is coming to my place now.
Dont know much yet
are you alright? Did you hear the explosion?
Do you know if Whiterussian works around there anywhere?
She works at Solli, its not the nearest but it is in town, so I hope she's ok
And yeah I am ok thanks! Yeah but we just thought it was thunder because it's been raining pretty much all day!
it's good that you're safe
hope she is too
she posted on facebook 10 mins ok
so I'm guessing yes.
10 mins ago.
yeah she's ok.
apparently didn't notice it.
glad she's ok.
bbc news is saying conflicting reports about his safety
i fucking hate the internet. i hate everything. please be okay please please.
Wha?
I've only read that he is ok
i'm hoping the bbc is just confused, but that's what they're saying
the safe reports are more numerous but i'm still so scared. i need to know absolutely.
Go and stop saying you are scared, fucking weird
Hate to say it
but he's right. Pull yourself together and stop being so hysterical.
Really? Hysterical?
Someone I care about immensely might have died. And I should be, you know, not hysterical about that? And not scared? And not desperate to know the situation?
you've never fucking met him stfu
"I see that some windows of the VG building and the government headquarters have been broken. Some people covered with blood are lying in the street," Associated Press news agency quoted him as saying.
don't tell her to shut the fuck up man
try and help her calm down instead
see
http://drownedinsound.com/community/boards/social/4298647#r6173339
it's obscene
yeah yeah I know
but if someone is having a panic attack you help them chill out not start telling them there's something wrong with them
Can people type when having a pn
*panic attack
Stupid DiS.
Actually, ignore me
this thread shouldn't be about pocketmouse.
Yes
I appreciate you're concerned. Whoever did this is trying to provoke this exact reaction on a massive scale. Don't play into their hands, all the reports are saying he's ok.
Who are you talking about PM?
you're right to be concerned
but try and keep calm, it won't help to panic though I understand your anxiety
it does look bad though, I agree
Is he your dad or something?
Or just some politician you've got a crush on?
Cos if it's the latter you should chill cos there's going to be people who are worried about actual friends and family right now and your hysteria isn't helping.
calm down and try to breathe properly. get a drink of water.
You hyperventilating isn't going to change anything in Oslo. Now, are you ok?
Oh dear
Swedish news agency;
http://twitter.com/#!/CFKlebergTT/status/94420482849386496
Oh fuck.
shiiiiiit.
http://gfx.dagbladet.no/labrador/174/174138/17413821/jpg/active/978x.jpg
Judging from this pic
http://twitpic.com/5u094x/full
is seems like the explosion was in the fourth floor office and blew out the windows in the opposite building
God, that looks horrific.
Beeb still saying eight injured - surely there must be more from judging from a pic like that?
looks like a parcel bomb to me
and the blast would mainly have hit people in the building and the wave gone over the heads of those in the street
falling debris would have been dangerous of course
it might not have been a bomb - maybe a gas leak ?
but if it WAS a parcel bomb then you'd have to say domestic rather than international terror
disclaimer: this is ENTIRELY speculative
Don't worry, Theo will know.
actually
you can rule out a gas leak - there's no gas network there
Probably not the place to make jokes.
Apologies.
I've had the urge to make 3 separate jokes already :(
joking is fine
it's a natural defence mechanism - all disasters have their bad taste jokes. It's a confirmation of life by and for the survivors
I'd be very suprised if a parcel bomb could get into a government building.
Over here they're very tight on mailbombs, I'd imagine they'd be the same in Europe. Doesn't mean it's not a bomb though, looks pretty bad from the picture.
clearly looks like an explosion on the fourth floor corner office
but there are also reports of a 2nd explosion - a car bomb is being talked about
hard to say
confirmed 1 dead
and another women has lost her legs
:(
fucking hell :(((
JFC
Cricket
LBW
jesus christ
Absolutely horrific.
Has anyone claimed responsibility for it yet?
Not yet.
If it's AQ then they rarely claim attacks.
Gut feeling is it will be a 7/7 style bombing with people doing it with no to few links with existing groups.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-14254705
this is awful
I didn't know anything about until my friend Olaf sent out a round-robin saying that although he was only 2 mins walk away from the scene, he was uninjured.
Fuck this world sometimes.
ABC reporting this as a car bomb now.
Norwegian officials not confirming that though.
And "death"
Is now "deaths" according to police.
And Norwegian police have now confirmed that it's a bomb.
yep
sadly, I've seen some gruesome pics - definitely deaths
and now Oslo Police confirm it was a bomb
Reuters reporting as terrorism now.
gosh
really awful. Is anything particular happening in Oslo at the moment (eg political summit) or is it just random timing?
well apparently Norway filed charges against the founder of a kurdish
terrorist group last week.
I don't think it would be that cos Kurds have never really attacked anywhere outside Kurdistan or the neighbouring countries
I doubt they could mobilise in a week
Ministry of Oil and Energy targeted allegedly, could just be speculation though.
THere wasn't anything that immediately sprang to mind as a motive for the attack.
Internet moves fast.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Oslo_explosion
rebuild
Fix
2 dead now I think
just saw a dead body pic, fucking hell.
I saw those, wish I hadn't clicked the link.
Yeah, 2 confirmed.
Hope it doesn't go any higher.
What sort of twat photographs a newly dead body and puts it on the internet
ffs some people
Photojournalist?
You still don't upload it to the internet
before the body's been identified and loved ones notified etc etc
journalists are heartless bastards
after the revelations of the last few weeks you should know this.
*some
There was some 'debate' in the guardian about this the other day
because the guardian think that part of being a hard-hitting newsy newspaper requires them to publish photos of dead bodies alongside stories.
Sometimes it's justified, but I think often the lines get a bit blurred and it becomes part of the arrogant 'thisistheNEWS' mindset of journos.
yeah, I really don't want to see those pictures
if they tell me there are dead bodies in the text, I'll believe them.
yes.
I haven't seen any of these photographs personally but I do think that is completely unacceptable.
We, the 24-hour-news-watching-public have no inalienable right to see those bodies, and showing them before they're been identified, the families have been notified and their names have been released to the public, is in my opinion the unpleasant realisation of an unhealthy urge to look at horrors in the face, perhaps so as either Kafka or Barthes or someone says 'If you can have all of something directly in front of you you can forget it'. Photojournalism to me isn't an excuse. These photos would still be news two weeks later, and incredibly disrepectful to the subject to imagine they need to be rushed out. This isn't Kevin Carter we're talking about, I can't see a reason why seeing physical bodies rather than knowing that death happened would compel the world public to take any required action.
I also think there are big question about whether large media outlets interviewing eye-witnesses immediately after the event is more dangerous than helpful.
http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1812204,00.html
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-healing-arts/201001/is-talking-about-traumatic-experiences-dangerous
Talk on twitter of synchronised vehicle explosives.
Pretty much confirms terrorism in some capacity. The thought of secondary devices is terrifying.
synchronised explosions seems right
a car bomb wouldn't have set that 4th floor fire
and a 4th floor parcel bomb wouldn't have mangled that car
Strange that the damage to the building seems so high up,
unless there was something up there that exploded.
The rumours that there are more car bombs is frightening though- where do you evacuate people to, and via what route? Secondary blasts are usually designed to catch people fleeing the initial blast.
Might not be a bomb, gas explosion
According to Anschul
there's no gas main in the area, and police have already confirmed it's one or more bomb(s).
Shame
no offence or anythign anschul
and maybe he works for norway gas or whatever, but how would he even know that?
the BBC reported it.
meths doesn't trust the source.
The North Sea?
well
one of the great things about twitter is that you have access to the entire world's media newsfeeds
i really wish people wouldnt talk about things like these until they really know whats going on.
I agree.
Speculation about what may or may not have caused the blast is pointless. I read the 7/7 thread recently and it was full of idle speculation which in a few cases was calmly asserted as fact, why? It doesn't help anybody.
And, '8 injuries so far', '1 dead so far' is kinda morbid.
The facts will be established later!
yeah let's pretend it didn't happen until tomorrow
no, but getting instant facts from twitter is a silly business if you're not directly involved.
twitter is just a repository for information
you don't get the information 'from twitter' you get the information from eye witnesses who disseminate that information ON twitter
if you can navigate through it all it's actually just as reliable and far more instantaneous than BBC TV news or whichever source you wait for for confirmation
ok
and in the case of the no-natural-gas-pipes assertion, even the BBC has been reporting that.
ok
indeed
though they seemed surprised about it - I think they might even have got the information from twitter, or at least confirmation of it
twitter is also a repository for misinformation and gossip
and people saying 'why is oslo trending?'.
that's why I said
...if you know how to navigate it...
^ basically this
while speculation doesn't exactly help, it's natural to want to talk about it.
not for everyone it isnt.
ok whatever. bye.
shut up
you're sleeping on the sofa tonight.
why do you have to wait until official statements before you discuss a subject? surely at that point there isn't anything left to discuss?
but what are you discussing anyway?
a big explosion in Oslo
Police holding a press conference shortly.
Hopefully that will clear a few things up, hopefully.
Oslo police statement:
So far, police cannot say anything about the scope of the damage, aside from that there's been one or several explosions.
Kay Burley is such a moron.
The fuck...!???
:(
what the actual fuck
I hope this is an error
I really really hope this is a mistake
fuuuuuuck
That's the worst thing ever if true
Alright, this is crazy
Stoltenberg is actually at this camp
It seems whatever the story behind today's events someone - or some group - is trying very hard to kill the Norwegian Prime Minister
info on the place
http://www.newsinenglish.no/2011/07/21/labours-summer-camp-opens/
Well there goes me feeling relieved
I just can't get my head around this at all. I can't deal with it. Stay safe, just stay safe, please.
what the actual fuck is happening.
pretty scary.
Can I amend this to terrifying.
absolutely awful
http://twitter.com/#!/SkyNewsBreak/status/94447168617840640
Fucking hell.
This is horrific.
NRK says 'at least' 4 dead
the situation still is not under control
people are hiding and some are swimming to an island
The BBC are talking about Libya as possible perpetrators.
It's difficult 'cos it must be either that or Islamist terrorism and I'm surprised either are coordinated enough to pull off a synchronised attack and a second attack elsewhere...
that leaves what?
USA or Israel ?
this is crazy - the target looks like the Norwegian PM.
Who has the muscle for a job of this magnitude?
How much 'muscle' is really needed though?
Didn't 7/7 boil down to four malcontents with a shed full of chapati flour?
I mean, that's the scary thing about it. Autonomous cells going unnoticed until they decide to do something like this.
au contraire
it's web known that other capitals and large cities arm targets now that main cities, like Madrid/Moscow/London have already been attacked
not to forget the Mohammed drawings.
That was Denmark wasn't it?
So unless the terrorists got confused it's probably not that...
Loads of newspapers reprinted them
from the guardian's feed:
6.09pm: NRK is reporting that an unknown group called "Helpers of the Global Jihad" have posted a message that this is only the beginning of the reaction to Norwegian periodicals publishing the Muhammed cartoons, according to Andrew Boyle, a journalist in Norway.
Ah fair enough.
Though nonetheless I've a strong suspicion "Helpers of the Global Jihad" are the kind of opportunists that seem to spring up to claim credit after terrorist attacks no-one's yet owned up to.
7/7 and other such attacks have largely targeted busy civilian areas
a numbers game for maximum destruction, fear and headlines
and while this attack, on the face of it, has all those ingredients too it actually seems much more specifically an attack first on the offices of the Prime Minister and then to have a man, disguised as a Police Officer, with a semi-automatic weapon located at a political summer camp and attempt to directly attack the PM is not the MO we're used to from AQ
it's really, really strange
and I feel awful about everything that's happened today :(
Indeed - although that makes me think Norwegian Islamists with a personal dislike.
it seems that the man they apprehended at Utöya is white and blonde
Far Right terrorism?
I'm sure it's not the US or Israel - there'd be no tangible motive.
I suspect it is one of the two I mentioned - I'm surprised at the coordination.
I suspect it has to be homegrown terrorists purely 'cos of the personal aim at the PM...
holy shit
http://twitter.com/#!/kjetilvevle
dodgy translations:
We sit at water: and a man who fires ikledd politiuniform. Help us in as the police will
We are well staying in, awaits situation. New shots n
The gunman on the island has been
apprehended apparently
"TV2, 1500 metres from Utøya, speaking to youths: "A man, 190 cm tall, blonde hair, light skin, athletic, disguised in police uniform" there goes the islam theories
exactly
an assassination attempt made out to look like the work of Al Qaeda ?
You can get converts
Not suggesting it's most likely, but you can't rule out islamic terrorism because someone involved is white.
But as an assassination attempt, surely with that planning, they'd know Stoltenberg was appearing the next day?
Fair point.
Yeah you cant rule it out just cause hes white
but im not sure how likely that is given how secular norway is...but it seems like noone has a clue whats going on atm. I wouldnt be surprised if its just some crackpot jumping on the back of the (rather professional?) bombs in oslo
Could a crackpot have acted that quickly?
he has been observed in oslo beforehand though
and although that alone doesn't necessarily mean much, the police are also saying that they do have cause to believe that the two incidents are very much related
but his exact whereabouts, who knows?
maybe he was scheduled to be in his office - perhaps just leaving his office when the bomb was timed
if they were just going to assassinate then they wouldn't have been able to claim the 'terrorism' angle in the way most people define it
but I'm just guessing of course
this is horrible
leave norway alone, it's the best country
7 confirmed dead
really scary news
totally shocking, hope this is the end of it.
Channel 4 news has given the most coherent picture so far
they suspect there is a bomb on Utoya (where the camp is)
but they have captured the gunman
link to the article on NRK
http://tinyurl.com/3qpweps
twitter feed is saying over 30 dead??
hope that's not true
There was a guy on tv
saying between 25 - 30 people :( but nothing is confirmed yet
the official report so far says about 10 dead at Utøya
but they're also saying that this number will definitely increase as they search the island more thoroughly. they have also confirmed now that they have found explosives stowed away at the site
hi guys
i'll post some of the rumours/unofficial reports going around later, i've not been home today though so haven't been much online yet and only on my sister's laptop now. ran out of battery on my mobile a few hours ago as well, great day for that
I think we're actually pretty good for unsubstantiated rumours, actually.
Cheers though.
Two actuallys
there's lots of eyewitness accounts and stuff that i've not seen covered here
though some of it is being covered it the currently ongoing press conference
yeah, can it dan
Oh, don't worry, I never expected her to change her mind because of me.
You'll still get your gossip.
i don't know if you're actually intending to come off real cuntish right now
but if you are, you're succeeding
I'm aware where she lives
You couldn't live with a couple of people you've never met having a snap opinion of you?
Bloody hell, you must be insecure.
Thank you
So far, everyone I know seems to be ok. We still dont know who the dead people are tho
The images of people swimming away from the island is horrifying
they're still searching for missing kids in the waters around Utøya
might still be kids hiding away around the island as well
i think about 300?
"a few hundred" anyway. pretty small place as well though so it must have been pretty difficult to find places to hide. and obviously because of the police outfit they didn't know what was going on at first. the "policeman" had at first asked them to come to him and then as they approached him just plain out assassinated them
locals on islands/mainland nearby have saved many lives by going out in boats and helping kids to shore
The bbc earlier said 560 were attending the camp
Don't know if that means they were all on the island at the time (well, obviously some weren't, like that story below), or if that was the expected attendance, or what. Are these sort of political youth camps common in Norway?
pretty common for the norwegian labour party (arbeiderpartiet) and the other leading social democrat party (sv) which they are in coalition with
it's a summer camp for members of their youth parties
could well have been
plus the actual politicians tend to make appearances as well. i think the PM was meant to stop by and make a speech tomorrow
too early :(
they've got boats out searching for them
and heat cameras (is that what they're called?) and whatnot... but anyone they find now will most likely be dead won't they
yeah, another guy was talking about his escape from the island
and how he didn't know if he could really trust anyone enough to climb into their boats or if he would literally be killed as soon as he got in
the water must be pretty frigid there, no?
probably yeah
it's ok for a five minute swim in the afternoon sun, like.
one of the teenagers being interviewed on tv now
he'd been just back on the mainland with a couple of others to get some provisions from the shop, and the boat back to the island had left before they got back. they were informed that a policeman had insisted the boat left at once, and that this was standard procedure or something relating to the bombs in oslo. obviously that "policeman" was the gunman, so the kid was (obviously) now pretty relieved not to have made it back onto the boat, and is happily reunited with his mum
god.
those kinds of situations must make you fcking delighted to be alive. lucky lad.
This is horrific
in that situation, most people would trust him instantly. The news had footage of people swimming away from the island, whilst (apparently) being shot at, I just can't begin to imagine how terrifying that must have been.
police have now arrived at an address they believe to associated with the man they have arrested
probably searching for more explosives and like, evidence and stuff i guess. we've not heard anything about a motif or anything yet
they appear to be in full combat gear
http://www.dagbladet.no/2011/07/23/nyheter/drap/terrorisme/17422293/
front page of the sun....
'Norway's 9/11'
JFC
lol
reminds me of team america.
the s*n knows no bounds.
we don't even know it was al qaeda
but they've splashed that up there as well.
everything points to it being a local thing
I read recently the defunct newspaper Today apparently ran the headline IN THE NAME OF ALLAH
after the Oklahoma City bombing, which wound up looking a bit stupid afterwards.
also, re the bombs in downtown oslo
i noticed a bit further up there had been discussions of where the main explosion came from. as far as we know, there were no explosives *in* any of the buildings. it it still believed to have been some kind of car bomb. seems mental, seeing as people felt it so far away. they seem to have mainly felt it further east though, i was further west and i didn't feel a thing, and no shattered windows or anything
glad to hear you and katti are ok
hope the same goes for loved ones and the like
thank you!
no one i know was hurt. my sister was pretty close to the scene but is physically fine.
the timing of this, which indicates that at least the bomb in oslo was mostly meant to scare people (or maybe distract them?), was fortunate in the respect that most people working around where it happened will have been away on holiday or left early if they were in work earlier that day
you probably already know this, but current official reports say 7 dead in oslo, 10 dead at utøya
hello
glad you're OK
re the bombs, I don't see how a car bomb on the street could start a fire on the 4th floor
also, it seems like far-right extremism to me
a lot of internet debaters are now linking it to someone who was arrested once in 2001
then 23 years old, in possession of guns, dynamite, and police uniforms. far right sympathies. but like i said, these are internet speculations, not even the pushiest tv reporters have brought this up yet
sky is reporting
Anders Behring Breivik - member of various extreme right groups
pretty odds-on that someone who cold-bloodedly opens fire on the labour and social democrat youth is gonna be a far right nutjob
this is terrible
been away from the internet all day so only just realised how bad it is. Anyone know any problems/tensions/issues/extremist groups there may be there that could have potentially done something like this, its seems weird to have something so big come out of nowhere
have to say I was impressed with Stoltenberg's response
I particularly liked his comment at the press conference about retaliating with a stronger democracy. Class.
yeah, he did so well
he's often criticised for not being enough of a strong leader type. he has thoroughly disproved that today. i can't think of anyone who would have been better suited to lead us through this thing
I must admit I'm not too familiar with him but I thought he handled it perfectly.
his tone was just right - not vengeful but determined. Can't have been easy to be so calm and statesmanlike considering the circumstances, but he was.
they're beginning to release blurred out photos of the man they've got in custody now
so probably won't be too long before we know more about him. i'm really tired but don't really know if i can go to sleep just yet
I'm finding it hard to believe the Sun have gone with that front page
after the massive shitstorm News Int have copped for over the last fortnight. Just astonishing.
I suppose by putting "al-Qaeda" in quotes, they're banking on a defence of
"we meant it was al-Qaeda-STYLE, as in 'a couple of near-simultaneous terror attacks that have drawn comparisons/suggestions of aQ being involved', and it's a well-known reference point for the British public".
Finding it far, far harder to believe/accept the Mail just aren't running with it at all.
it's on the mail's front page
Is it?
The link below has a front page with no sign on it, maybe they changed it at the last minute?
yeah, different edition innit
yeah, he's a "nationalist"
norwegian language article: http://www.vg.no/nyheter/innenriks/artikkel.php?artid=10080610
The Mail and Express manage to avoid a Sun-style fuck up...
...by not bothering to run the story on their front page!
Mail: http://i.imgur.com/eh7JQ.jpg 'Cleared: Man who killed a burglar - no charges for hero homeowner.' + The queen doesn't like Kate's Dress.
Express: http://i.imgur.com/JhPBa.jpg '150 human animal hybrids grown in uk labs.' + The queen doesn't like Kate's Dress.
+ as mentioned, The Sun: http://i.imgur.com/BJSjH.jpg
in norway, even the killers are good looking
http://i56.tinypic.com/aaxggk.png
wtf scandinavia is god tier
his facebook
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100002651290254&sk=wall
Books:
William James
Consequences of Pragmatism
On Liberty
Nineteen Eighty-Four
The Trial
War and Peace Leo Tolstoy
The Iliad and the Odyssey
Critique of Pure Reason
The Prince
The Wealth of Nations
An Essay Concerning Human Understanding
First Folio
Leviathan
The Prince Niccolò Machiavelli
The Divine Comedy by Dante Alighieri
The Republic by Plato
That's the kind of class you just don't get with British terrorists these days.
Right, this is bloody awful.
If it was one of you guys I'm gonna be truly fucked off.
At least 80 killed in the shooting?
How can one person manage to shoot 80 people? This is so so horrific.
Pretty fucking easy when they have an automatic weapon
and everyone else is unarmed
80?!
...
Confirmed on BBC News now. 80 people.
That's absolutely gobsmacking. RIP.
Came in here to post this
Absolutely lost for words :(
:) x
some of the images of this are truly horrific
its truly sad to think how fucked up some people can be. To walk about gunning down kids is just unreal.
For a hollow laff,
check out the threads on Lucianne.com, my favourite conservative American nutbag forum.
Here's how the discussions develop.
1: Story breaks. Not much info forthcoming. Comments:
"So, the 'religion of peace' strikes again huh?"
"Anything remains possible, but everyone knows that Muslims are by far the most likely culprits"
"Watch liberals tie themselves up in knots trying to blame the United States and, of course, Israel"
"To the white people of Europe: You can run, but you can't hide. So man up and kick these invaders out"
2: More reports follow. No physical descripton of the killer issued. Comments:
"Their not telling us what he looks like. 100% proof that this is an Islamic job"
Also, "Have you heard from any dismayed or heartbroken moderate muslims? No. I haven't, either. Perhaps they're busy celebrating".
3: More reports. Now the killer is being described as blonde. Comments:
"I like how they are so quick to point out he was 'blonde and blue-eyed' yet when it's a muslim, you get NO physical description"
"There are many Chechen tall blonde Muslims"
"Something's fishy about this... clearly we're not being told everything".
More reports. Now the guy is not only blonde, but also has a name that isn't Ahmed or Iqbal, and has links to rightwing Christian extremist groups. Comments:
"Huh, so now they're going to blame Sarah Palin???"
"How long till they claim he's a member of the Tea Party?"
"Watch the liberal media have a field day with this one"
"This guy could not do these things without the arabs govnerments help."
"Even if he's home grown, it doesn't mean that he's not a Muslim terrorist."
Also, [supreme irony] "I can guarantee you that he ain't no Christian".
Oh yeah - and "The only gun on that island was the killer's... guns can save lives as well as take them"
Such dumb cunts.
dear lord, some people scare me
80 people
I am shocked. Really didn't think the number would be that high
It's so unreal that this has all happened. It's like a very bad dream.
Thank god they took that man alive. The sad thing is that he will be seen as mentally unstable, and will live the "good" life here in Norway. The prison here is way too good for him. I hope he will be hunted down the day he gets out and gets his real punishment then.
Yeah I know, I don't have to read them
but I'm kind of fascinated by US political culture in all its manifestations. The mindless groupthink on the Right never ceases to amaze, especially in this case as Lucianne.com professes to be a serious political discussion forum.
Anyways, Oslo huh. 80+ fucking people, just insane.
Breaks my heart to watch it
http://www.tv2.no/nyheter/innenriks/-minst-80-drept-paa-utoeya-3544636.html
New link
http://www.tv2.no/nyheter/innenriks/-vi-skal-ta-deg-til-et-sted-der-noen-kan-hjelpe-deg-3544636.html
yeah, not sure what happened to that link
84. and counting.
84 teenagers at summer camp.
someone just tweeted this: "Last year there were 29 murders in Norway all together. This puts todays massacre truly to perpective. #osloblast #osloexpl"
there's a police press conference right now
but obvs they can't share too many details yet.
apparently the shooting spree went on for about two hours.
so far it's only this one man
84 people. Fucking hell.
fucking hell. I can't believe this.
The Eyewitness interviewed on the BBC said that he was dressed 'as a nazi'
all the accounts i've heard so far say he was wearing a police uniform
guy on the BBC who was on the island just said it. I don't know what your guys police uniform is like.
The guy's account was fucking harrowing though. Its made me feel a bit ill. :(
I thought he meant he was acting like a Nazi...
at least they're not saying we can't go into town anymore
probs gonna walk in later
"apparently the guy, dressed as a police officer, gathered people around him under the pretense of informing them of what had happened in Oslo. Then he opened fire. And in the ensuing panic he motioned people over to him before shooting them. And when people tried to swim back to shore, he picked them off one by one, sniping them with a rifle..."
beyond horrific.
how and why could any human do this?
As for the media fuck ups, um, no, I just don't have anything to say about any of this. Horrific.
also, apologies if this is excessively morbid
but here's his twitter profile that he apparently set up just days ago
https://twitter.com/#!/AndersBBreivik
the mayor of oslo is gaining so many new fans from this as well
Going down to town soon
Gonna be weird to see it all. I saw some broken glass last night as I took the bus down to town with my friend who was going home, but nothing more.
i think i'm definitely going to go out tonight
sure it'll be weird as all fuck, but it's important to meet people and talk about what's happened as well as taking back oslo
yeah, I definitely agree on that
press conference with the leader of the labour youth now
Can't really hear it even if I could understand...
...but Jesus. I can't get much beyond sighing and shaking my head right now.
fucking hell, 84 people
when i went to bed last night they were saying 7, can't believe it. horrifying.
and the front page of the sun - WHAT?
7 dead in downtown oslo, 84 so far at Utøya (the summer camp)
91 altogether. Will probably be more at Utøya
what the fuck?
The BBC has a league table of mass shootings towards the bottom
of this page.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-14259356
It's not a fucking sport.
find it very disturbing that the police reportedly took an hour and a half to
get to the island while the kids were being gunned down.
I guess that if you think about it though,
most of the resources had been dragged to Oslo for the bomb, also, they couldn't just drive up, its an island. I know that it sounds like it took them ages, but also, approaching the island on a boat whilst someone is shooting must be quite a difficult operation.
would they not have helicopters though?
surely both safer and quicker.
yeah, but we have no idea how many of those that they have,
or where they were, and also what the police actually knew about how serious the situation was on the island.
this^
in all the newspapers today it says 'possibly up to 20 shot' and that was at the time of going to press so it's clear that nobody really had any idea of what was going on/whether there was more than one person/more bombs or anything.
y'know
there are some eyewitness reports about gunfire from two directions on the island but I guess the whole thing was pretty disorientating
plus, at the time they didn't know how many people, whether there were more bombs
etc. etc.
but still, that's a long time
exactly this, about oslo
it's looking more and more like an intended distraction from the "real" tragedy
I just really struggle to believe it was one guy who set up and carried out both.
it's possible
it seems he had a farm, as cover for stockpiling fertilizer for bombs
but it does seem difficult to believe he acted completely alone
I was in shock when I heard this death toll this morning
and it looks set to rise too
so many harrowing eyewitness stories from teenagers on the island
but the British media ... Jeez, so patronising towards the Norwegians
and the whole 'Al-Qaeda' thing - some people need to have a long, hard look at themselves
...I wonder if all Christians and Right-Wingers are going to be forced to condemn and distance themselves from this action
hmm.
They are now dying at a rate of more than 250 per day - that's one child every six minutes. This is totally unacceptable and we must all act now to help save lives.
fucking dis.
I hope this doesn't distract from the biggest disaster going on right now.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-14253766
They are now dying at a rate of more than 250 per day - that's one child every six minutes. This is totally unacceptable and we must all act now to help save lives.
I find it odd when people try and close down the discussion of one subject
and attempt to supercede it with another 'more worthy' subject
compassion is neither mutually exclusive nor a competitive sport
compassion is neither mutually exclusive nor a competitive sport
I put it in quotes because I am not in the habit of making value judgements on other peoples opinions
that is all
?
It was pretty obvious why he'd put "more worthy" in quotes. And entirely appropriate to do so.
and show me where, in this thread anyone is arguing that what happened in Norway put the African horn situation in the shade?
no one mentioned it because this is clearly a thread about something entirely unrelated
you're fighting against false monsters
You don't have a clue what anyone in this thread feels or cares about the situation in Africa and so you infer an outrage from nothing
and even if you did have a clue who the hell are you to judge how other people should feel?
this whole part of the thread is an embarrassing distraction
I think you're deliberately putting what he said out of context with your last sentence.
I find your sanctimonious bullshit
and to a lesser extent s_p_g's (as he has clarified his position) to be the embarrassing distraction
ie not the discussion of Africa but the so-called moral high ground that you are grappling for
let me state quite clearly that I do not believe in judging other people's feelings
there is a huge complexity in our reactions to things, events, stories etc and everyone's reaction is informed by their own personal experience
but over and above that you have jumped to a massive conclusion about other people's feelings
so, to recap
1) judging others on their opinions - not my thing but fair enough if it's your thing
2) judging people on your own imagination of their opinions - sanctimonious bullshit and, in the context of this thread, an embarrassing distraction
for fuck's sake James
___I am also making no judgements on people more interested in one thing over another___
link me to where anyone said that the Norway events were more important than the events in Africa
actually, don't bother because this branch of the thread needs to end
Maybe but what you're actually proposing is rewiring the very essence of human nature.
Unless you have a plan to re-route the entire of human psychology so people no longer empathise more with circumstances they can relate to, this isn't going to work out.
What's more, what exactly the plan here? Are we going to play a game of worthy bingo? Do I now need to go and find someone who's actively part of the relief team from the famine to label you a lazy, inhuman scumbag for the fact you're sat on your arse berating people when you could be booking your next flight to East Africa to actually do something?
Fair point.
I think it's usually relating to people.
If you can imagine yourself in the same circumstance I think you're likely to try and help but if it's circumstances entirely alien to your own experiences then you just can't picture what it'd be like to be in that circumstance and hence find it much harder to motivate yourself to do something.
^not true actually
a common myth
Nothing exciting is happening in Africa and so it struggles to get noticed.
Probably more to do with the fact it's almost impossible to report from the area affected. If it hadn't been Somalia then it would have been much bigger news, probably comparable to the famine's in North Korea or Burma
in fairness i think what spg is saying
is that we can actually do something about the famine situation. whereas we can't do anything to bring back those who lost their lives in oslo. don't think he meant to come across morally superior or anything like that.
He did it in an exceptionally morally superior way though.
Giving money to save existent people *is* morally superior to sitting round talking about an event.
Obviously, as Anschul points out, these actions are not mutually exclusive. It is possible to donate to the famine appeal, as many Brits have already done, and no doubt many DiSers have already done, AND talk about this Norwegian tragedy.
I was just hoping to remind people of the famine situation, who would ordinarily donate but had been distracted/unaware due to these attacks, and other (e.g Murdochgate) news coverage. Perhaps any European DiSers would like to encourage their governments to donate more?
For what it's worth, Norway has significantly increased its contribution to the famine appeal (I think proportionately their government has now given much more than the UK), showing what a great country it is:
http://allafrica.com/stories/201107220679.html
It's an odd environment to make that point though.
In so far as this is quite clearly a thread specifically about what happened in Oslo, a couple of people who posted on here are in Oslo and others probably know people in Oslo.
It seems a weird place to start berating them for talking about, erm, Oslo. If you'd started a thread fair enough but this didn't feel like the time or the place. You come across a bit like the guy from Blue who days after 9/11 berated the American media as they weren't concerned about saving the elephants.
^ this, actually
completely. not the time or place
I'm not berating people who have links to Norway, I've already said that.
And it's understandable, as you have said, for people to empathise with people they can more easily relate to. But that doesn't mean we should lose focus of the suffering of other people who are harder to immediately relate to.
If I'd have started another thread would anyone have noticed? I somehow doubt it.
who lost focus?
you made that part up
Well, the media.
It's not even mentioned on the main BBC news webpage:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/
And if people don't hear about a story, they're less likely to do something about it.
Oh actually it is on there, at the bottom of the politics column.
Im sure if you started a thread about it dis would notice
and care but it is a situation that doesn't lend it self to discussion as easily, there are complicated social economic political and environmental causes that are beyond the scope of non experts and is a realitively static though deteriorating situation, where as what happened in norway is shocking in a different way and with developments unravelling during the time of this thread it was obviously going to have more discussion around it
Well...
It is 'more worthy', in the sense that things can be done to actually prevent significant harm from occuring.
There is competition for awareness. If people don't know, or forget, that other things are going on that they can actually significantly contribute to, then in effect compassion does become mutually exclusive.
and who exactly are you to tell people what they should and shouldn't be caring about?
and how exactly are you so confident in your insight into what people do and do not care about?
I disagree with a lot of the things you write in this post, but I'm not going to judge you for it
do you see?
If you want to discuss the famine the very least you could do is start a thread about it and discuss it there
I'm not telling anyone that they should care about anything.
But if someone generally cares about people in Norway, they should care about people in the Horn of Africa.
Obviously, if someone has stronger links to Norway than Africa, as some DiSers do, then it is reasonable to care about what you know.
As far as I'm aware, and as Ho_Fo pointed out, there was not a massive thread on DiS about the famine, or the mass killings e.g in Sudan.
http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2011/07/21/twitter-rages-murdochs-times-of-london-famine-cartoon-most-offensive-thing-yet/
*I'm not telling anyone that they should care about anything*
Er, yes you were. You did it quite clearly in your initial post when you said we all needed to act now. At least stick to your guns man.
more annoying is the huffing and puffing about the early mistakes of the british media
as if that's somehow a greater issue than the deaths of 84 people...
It's not *just* caused by the weather.
If countries in the area were well-governed, with better infrastructure, then they wouldn't need to rely so much on international aid. There are questions about the most effective ways of giving aid, about who's actually controlling the area and whether they are helping or preventing aid getting through, and how it got to this stage in the first place. There could even be stuff on e.g development of drought-resistant genetically modified crops, and whether opposition to GM in Europe is doing more harm than good.
you probably should have just started a thread about the famine
There's military all over town
Most shops are closed. There's a lot of people in town
What's up with PocketMouse's wacko reaction?
Faux-panic attack over your fears for the safety of a politician you've never met? Man up.
Has Norway taken over from Canada as the 'indie country' or something?
I hope nobody you know or are related to is ever killed, wounded or targetted in a bombing/shooting. I don't think you'd cope.
It really was a bit distrubing
and as someone said up there a bit obscene. It smacked of attention seeking and trying to make a tragedy about her.
How exactly??
It's not like I was just like "hey, I like the PM of Norway, he's involved in this, I should post something". Everyday for years I've checked and translated news articles, social media stuff etc. I don't give a fuck if you think it's sad, but you saying that I have no right to be upset about someone I don't know is ridiculous.
"disturbing", "obscene", "attention seeking"???? You think I really gave a fuck about myself when I didn't know how he was. I DIDN'T.
And even if you actually believed that
You think it's more respectful to the event to start insulting (putting it nicely, I would say 'bullying') someone in this thread? Seriously? Grow the hell up.
Abandon rep.. nah fuck it
Bullying? I'm not attacking you personally, just giving my opinion on your reaction. There's a massive difference.
And you can react how ever you want. Your a fan of his, fine. I don't think it's sad (again like the ''bullying''stop imagining things that aren't there in the post)everyone is/was concerned about the people involved.
But to post constant OMG look at me look at me posts (7 of them) as a tragegy is unfolding just seemed a bit strange. And I obviously wan't the only one to think that and find it a bit inappropiate.
And since you act like a self absorbed child I will not be told to grow up by you.
i hate to think
what would happen if nick heidfeld was a victim of terrorism
embarrassing
Just leave me alone
I don't have to know someone to care about them. Maybe you do. I really don't care if other people approve of how much I care about people. I figure that usually people who are going to criticise me for caring about someone aren't going to be people I give a fuck about. Haven't been proved wrong at all in this thread.
Yes, I probably care more about people I haven't met (it's not even that there's many, maybe five or six) than others. It's pretty obvious from DiS alone that I've cared a lot about him for quite a long time. I don't really see how it makes me a bad person TO CARE ABOUT SOMEONE. Yes, some people have lost family, but is me panicking a bit on a messageboard and trying to find out info from people REALLY in any way hurtful to them? You really think that?
Seriously, sometimes DiS is so fucking narrow minded and pathetic. And people tend to think they're the opposite of that. I was frightened, I was upset and I was confused, that was all. just because you think it's 'uncool' or whatever to be like that for someone I don't know personally (however invested I am in their life) -- you don't have any kind of 'moral platform' to attack me as you're essentially claiming.
I pretty much stopped posting on DiS because I was sick of what's essentially been constant bullying. Yes, I probably shouldn't expect anything more from an internet forum. And yes, I probably should have stayed away.
Well, then I'm very sorry for not having the same behaviour patterns
as all you friends and acquaintances. I'm a lot more invested in other people's lives (people who I don't know personally) than most are. I'm aware of that. And I'm not sorry for it just because other people think it's 'uncool' or 'not how it's supposed to be'.
I was panicking and upset and needed to talk to someone, I needed to say something and do something or else I was going to break down. I'm on the other wise of the world so couldn't just phone my mum or my sister.
I don't hate that about me. The only thing I hate about me right now is that I'm feeling the need to justify myself when I shouldn't have to.
I don't think people think you're "uncool"
I think they're more just shocked to be confronted with somebody who is blatantly not of sound mind
Hey. you've got no reason to justify anything.
completely understandable being worried and expressing that worry to other people/to the abyss of the internet.
DiS is a pretty judgemental, cynical place and I'd just leave them to it, if i were you.
absolutely this^
the level of intolerance in this thread is frankly disturbing
why would you think it was about you?
The reason it was extremely odd is that
it was typed.
Fair enough - reacting verbally to something like this is perfectly understandable.
But in navigating your way through the page to click 'reply', typing out your post and then submitting it, that initial shock and confusion isn't sincere.
When you finally explain that the reason for your worry is that it's a politician you happen to 'really like', it becomes even less understandable.
Nobody's bullying you, but when a story like this is breaking and everyone is equally confused and worried, it's really not that helpful to posting stuff like you were doing early on.
urghhhhhhhhhh
shut the fuck up. Thread's not about you. /issue
tbf
Alex-in-Ciderland called her a wacko - she has a right to reply to that
Why did he allow himself to be arrested?
Kinda weird...
I don't think we're talking about a normal guy here
I assume he ran out of ammo.
And so the police could hold him up.
Also, he's not going to be executed, so I doubt someone of his state of mind would be that concerned about being put through the Norwegian judiciary.
plus the fact that scandinavian prisons are like holiday camps
not even dailymailing here, look it up
Apparently not:
Police: Suspect in Norway attacks still hada lot of ammunition when he surrendered - AP
Although in contrast:
Mr Breivik's lawyer said his client surrendered after running out of ammunition.
just had a look at the Free Republic thread on this
probably shouldn't have bothered. The level of denial on there is unbelievable.
A second man with a knife has been arrested
Witnesses has said they saw a second guy at Utøya
I'm hearing that this guys was arrested
at the hotel where victims, relatives and others are being reuntied
is that right?
reunited*
and Stoltenberg was there too ?
Yes, that is correct
Smiling, while getting arrested
eighty four people :(
there were only 4 when I last checked. I can't believe some of the ridiculous arguments people are having in this thread
84 shot
7 in the explosions
this sniping is fucking pathetic
And totally out of order. Fucking self-absorbed virgin bedwetters.
what the
oh, just got it
nvm
not sure how far this is valuable but Breivik's forum posts have been picked up lots of attention
http://www.document.no/anders-behring-breivik/
summarised by Peter Beaumont: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jul/23/anders-behring-breivik-norway-attacks
i think as always it's more to do with individual factors like personal situation and mental health, more than any over-riding ideology driving on but i think it does provide some kind of relief from the initial feeling of 'just why would this happen' to see some of the frameworks in which he was thinking.
i don't think he can be fairly described as a 'lone shark' in the way the media has tried to, simply because of the framework of people w/ similar views he's contacted and his clearly set-out 'agenda'.
the frightening thing is that, despite his actions being beyond extreme
many of his views are very much a part of or not far from the mainstream
Yeah it's just the usual comments you read on most newspaper sites
I hear people around here say things like that all the time :S
big fan of Melanie Philips apparently.
wasn't it Cameron who did that big speech on how Multiculturalism had failed ?
Pretty mainstream
wtf, at the bottom
Related information
World news
Norway · Europe · The far right · Race issues
Varg Vikernes to be depicted in black-metal biopic
must confess i was working through the board posts and skipped the summary. yes that's stupid. judging by his facebook page he was also a massive fan of trance music. and as far as i've seen no-one has suggested that leads to terrorist.
> also fundamental disconnect in the way people look at terrorists. islamists are simply agents of an global ideology without private lives whereas crimes not seemingly motivated by religion are considered in terms of passively 'what went wrong', the mistakes of society or his family...etc
i'm going to go out now for drinks with friends, to mourn what has happened but also to celebrate that we, and those we care about, are still alive
and that our city is still ours. (and listen to amy winehouse whilst doing so)
have a good evening, all.
have a good evening yourself :)
well, that was weird
out on a saturday night in one of the few places that was open as usual, around the corner from the closed off area. Maybe four other people there apart from me and my friends, empty dancefloor, hardly anyone on the streets outside.
I guess people wouldn't know where would be open.
hmm
Breivik's attorney has, in a radio interview with NRK, confirmed that his client belongs to an international network of right-wing extremists. He said that he's planned his actions for a long time, and has requested the hearing on Monday to be open for world media, so that he can reveal all.
his 'manifesto' is frightening
it's 1,500 pages long so I obviously haven't gone through the whole thing, but there's at least one Melanie Phillips article included in there along with calls for an 80-year European civil war to eradicate Islamic/multicultural influence and surreal stuff about World of Warcraft.
Did you read the bit that advises people to confide in their close friends that they've taken up World of Warcraft (or another MMO)?
The reason being that people won't question you being out of touch for long periods of time when you're working on a "project", and there's enough of a stigma attached to it that they'll make excuses for you to less close friends about your erratic schedule.
Fun fact: he apparently played World of Warcraft on the same server as me (no, I've never interacted with him in-game). His character's name was "Conservatism".
I like this bit
"Say you think you are gay and are in the process of discovering your new self and that you don’t want to talk any more about this issue. Tell them that you are ashamed of it and you don’t want to talk any more about it. Make them swear to not tell anyone! (your ego is likely to take a dent unless you are secure in your own heterosexuality, because they will actually believe you are gay. However, it’s an extremely effective strategy for stopping questions and prevent people from digging in your life when you don’t want them to."
lol
and of course it was all a staged conspiracy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZXcGqllpYc Alex Jones at it again. This is why I hate conspiracy theorists.
Fuck me, that's embarrassing.
I kind of want to wade in and argue but I know trying to use reason makes no sense in these kinds of circumstances...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQdBjix5NBE
:'D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhcZLu-vb2Y&t=3m39s
Yeah I'm reading it now
http://www.scribd.com/doc/60739170/2083-a-European-Declaration-of-Independence
Looks like there are quite a few British contributors...
the big issue being discussed on online forums and stuff here atm
is whether we should really be paying the guy any kind of attention at all, seeing as him getting lots of attention seems to have been such a huge part of this. a lot of people are saying we shouldn't be posting his pictures, talking about his manifesto or "reasons" for having done what he did, etc. i personally don't see that working out.
what's the objection?
surely it would just sway even more against it
i guess it's because the way that he sees it, he's now in the "propaganda phase" of his "project"
many people don't want to grant him the satisfaction of just getting the chance to spread his thoughts or his so called ideology, because that seems to have been his ultimate goal.
surely that must be weighted against the fact that ultimately these are the thoughts of
a psychotic mass child murderer?
it's a conundrum - a terrorist mass-murderer shouldn't be given a global platform but the public's desire and curiosity to lift the lid on just what dangerous thoughts, paths and circles can trigger this aberration is obviously strong and there are likely lessons to be learned in analysing them
I dont think there is a problem with it as long as it doesnt get out of hand, he obviously has an inflated view of himself and probably thinks now the focus is on him he has a platform to broadcast his views and maybe convince people, but what he did was so extreme and horrific he has undermined any kind of cause he thought he had, it would be better his views are forever associated with this act rather than his views and reasons remaining a mystery, people need to know how dangerous those views are so they dont become acceptable in future
hmm
if he's the White Bin Laden with a global network of Crusader Anti-Jihadists then there is a possibility that quoting him verbatim could contain trigger words and codes etc
sounds crazy huh? but most of us have accepted this reasoning re: Al Qaeda since almost precisely 10 years ago
jesus
:O
what with that
and this;
http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2011/07/21/twitter-rages-murdochs-times-of-london-famine-cartoon-most-offensive-thing-yet/
it's almost as if the Murdoch empire are goading the powers that be into press regulation they can then declare as the end of free speech, an attack on democracy and 'political correctness gone mad' etc
or maybe they really are just tasteless fuckwits
was so ready to completely dismiss that when I read 'Twitter rages'
but what the actual fuck
what an obnoxious cunt:
http://blogs.canoe.ca/corenscomment/consider-this/leftist-syndrome/
anyone fancy a whip round to buy this arsehole a flight to Norway to he can spout this shite in person?
i dont know how far this can be trusted but Alan Lake, the businessman who bankrolls the EDL seems to post online praising the attack
http://i.imgur.com/KFEB5.png
unsurprisingly, Lake has form for being a gigantic thundercunt:
http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2010/05/452328.html
yeh, if that is him and given the user above seems to recognise him it seems likely it is - surely this *must* make it harder for the daily star/right-wing pundits etc. to view the edl as the acceptable face of neo-nazism.
yeh it seems to be. here's his facebook account http://www.facebook.com/alanlake2 (apols to anyone who's a fan of that anime)...and if you look below there's a link to the forum so it must be.
"Meanwhile more details have emerged about why the police operation to capture the gunman took so long.
Local police said a boat they wanted to use to get to the island was too small and leaky to carry personnel and equipment, and they decided to wait for a special unit from Oslo.
And asked why a helicopter was not used, police chief Sveinung Sponheim said this would have taken longer as the nearest police helicopter was at a base in the south."
This courtroom appearance will be strictly behind closed doors today then.
I think it's pretty wise, he's only going to get a forum to spout his bile otherwise.
appreantly you're not allowed to take any pictures or quote directly from these meetings anyway
wow, that's a pretty strict lockdown.
Do you think that they'll extend the maximum sentence for him?
well, depends what you mean really
"normal" prison sentences can never exceed 21 years. But we have this other thing called "forvaring" - or "involutary commitment" apparently http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Involuntary_commitment which is used in cases where the person in question poses an obvious risk to themselves and society etc. (although i'm not sure if they have to be classified as technically being mentally ill or whatever, and for that reason they're not always placed in a mental insitution like that wiki article on involuntary commitment describes. Some of them are just kept in maximum security prison as far as i understand)
anyway, when this "forvaring" thing is used rather than a plain prison sentence, it too can only be 21 years to begin with, but can be prolonged by 5 years at a time. So in theory, you can actually be locked away for life. Which kind of seems to be the only realistic possiblity in this case, if you ask me.
I'm not too clear on why it is so short. Is it all just classed as one murder?
no, but 21 years is the maximum prison sentence in norway
you can't end up with a 374 year sentence for multiple murders like in some other places (is it like this in the uk? i can't remember). you can't get more than 21 years in standard prison.
ah right,
yeah you can get sent down for loads of seperate convictions with sentences to run one after the other here. It must be a hell of a liberal justice system for that to be the maximum.
that's quite ridiculous
vikerness got 21 years for killing just one person
regardless, that's how it works here, and it's important that we don't try to change things for him
It seems to be working, excluding this incident.
Was it really only 29 murders last year? Lowest homicide rate in the world apparently.
There's a big kind of march thing in oslo today
almost 60k attending on facebook so far. (we're a city of less than 600,000 people)
it will probably be the biggest of its kind and extremely emotional. i advise you to watch it online if possible, or look for pictures online afterwards.
TV2 are still streaming around the world...
...here: http://webtv.tv2.no/webtv/sumo/?treeId=11&progId=535955
If anyone wants to. Couldn't find a global NRK one any more...
I was away this weekend and had been keeping up to date via the reuters app on my phone
It wasn't until I got back home last night and put on the TV that I was able to really see the images and the full scale of the devastation to this country. I couldn't stop crying- it is just incomprehensible. I'll look out for the march. Are you going to take part?
for sure, as is pretty much everyone that i know. it will be MASSIVE.
we are being encouraged via facebook etc to print out the lyrics to a very emotionally loaded song (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Til_Ungdommen) which will be sung by a choir and probably the tens of thousands of people attending. i've printed up probably over a hundred copies, hope people will take them
the sentiments in that song are pretty awesome
Does anyone have the last few issues of Private Eye?
Seeing the front page of the 'manifesto' on the Telegraph website, I recognised the picture he used there and the title 2083 from an advert than ran in the classifieds for a while. I'm pretty certain it linked to his email address, or similar. Problem is, I've thrown all my old copies away and it's not in the current issue. Can anyone else check?
what issue?
Intermittently over the past two months, I guess
in the classifieds section. A boxout normally with 2083 as a title in bold, then some text, sometimes with a picture of him in uniform. I'd always noticed it because I always find those listings compelling reading - people trying to get their novels published, etc - and thought there was something really unusual about the picture he used.
I'm certain this happened, but have no way to prove it. I don't think it's been picked up in the media so far, either.
i've got a few at home
I'll dig around and have a look.
to be honest, it still hasn't really sunk in that this actually happened
I just can't really comprehend that someone could do this. There's a kind of inherent cowardice in bombings, but standing there, gunning down unarmed children. It's a cold blooded calculating brutality I find impossible to comprehend another human being inflicting on others :(
it's just horrific
I can't stop thinking about him being dressed as a policeman and calling the children over to him. It's an image that'll stay with me forever I think.
bloody hell.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/norway/8659495/Norway-killings-amateur-video-captures-Oslo-blast-scene.html
not for the squeamish id say.
grim...
has anyone watched the video Breivik uploaded to youtube before doing what he did? He basically sets himself as a modern day Knight and hero.
Yeah, shooting a bunch of unarmed kids is pretty heroic.
few pics of ABB from today up now
http://www.dagbladet.no/
only while he's sat in the police car, though.
jeezus
imagine being one of the Police who had to interrogate him knowing what he'd done
urgh
Probably because I'm a base person incapable of much forgiveness
I'd be massively fighting off the urge to go Dark Knight on him
exactly
I'd be heeling his face off
nah man
blates go for the disappearing pencil trick.
Some pictures from today
http://i55.tinypic.com/16jok6c.jpg
http://i52.tinypic.com/2mhvs6w.jpg
http://i54.tinypic.com/mt40ms.jpg
http://i56.tinypic.com/35l4vg0.jpg
http://i52.tinypic.com/rlhrp0.jpg
http://i53.tinypic.com/2u57rja.jpg
Thank you
:)
he was probably slighted by some liberal girl he liked years ago
stuff like this usually ends up being about a girl.
whatever he's a fucking loser and doesn't warrant any of our attention.
This is basically what Boris alludes to in his column in the torygraph today
I read that too
It's kinda ironic that by its very nature, a well-written and reasoned peice like that will just prompt further discussion (over 1000 comments).
No doubt some silly journalists will see fit to use this all as a link to opinion and discussion on multiculturalism and why it's actually dead good and stuff. That would be giving this guy a place in the debate. He needs to be compltetely cut out from any public discourse because his deranged opinions are so irrelevant to all of us.
odd
they've lowered the death toll from Utöya to 68 from 86
does that mean that 18 kids drowned trying to escape or that the previously unaccounted for turned up ?
Just because of the general choas on friday I think...from Telegraph;
This figure could still go up and the search (for bodies) is ongoing. On Friday afternoon the situation was very chaotic. The police had to put the accent on helping the wounded and providing emergency care, it's possible that victims were counted several times.
apparently someone was active, confirming friend requests on his facebook after the massacre
...
Seeing these pictures and footage of Oslo tonight.
Just incredible. Really strong feelings. It sounds strange, a little, but I just can't wait to get back to Oslo now.
pictures from Utøya
http://www.nrk.no/nyheter/norge/1.7725968
Not sure how a feel about the pictures of the kids trying to escape being published.
:s
Also, picture 9 seems to have lots of pixelated areas...I'm not sure I want to know what they are :(
Nice piece from Glenn Beck on this
http://istyosty.com/tmp/cache/66056d7ae3d638b4ac9a2631a81657db64b4a7ef.html
fucking hell.
I heard this last night and here are some of the impressively stupid things he says:
- Geert Wilders is Danish
- Muslims are overrunning the cities of Europe
- Muslims are taking over all the local education boards and stuff in Europe
- right-wing people in Europe want big govt, i.e. the right-wing in Europe is 'different than' the right-wing in America (subtext: no link between the Norwegian terrorist and 'true' right-wing views)
- EVERYONE who wants big govt ends up committing terrorism (seriously)
- kids on a political summer camp is kinda like the Hitler Youth
not to mention
the fact that the Tea Party are running summer long camps to brainwash children - http://crooksandliars.com/john-amato/tea-party-child-indoctrination-camps
Disgusting, stupid hypocrite.
he's just scrabbling around for attention now Fox News have given him the boot.
I suppose he's also playing up to his lackwit fan base but it seems he genuinely has no morals whatsoever.
Well he has more or less admitted that hasn't he?
Or at least that he's just an entertainer and doesn't really take what he says seriously.
Which obviously makes him an even bigger c-word.
so he's basically what CG aspires to be?
Daily mash take on Beck
http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/international/glenn-beck-urged-to-increase-pressure-on-massacre-victims-201107264119/
I'd quite like it if he died.
Eerily familiar...
http://fleetstreetblues.blogspot.com/2011/07/scream-2.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter