basically that's the Prime Minister's offices on a busy square next to the largest newspaper (VG) offices
But I couldn't help it.
the street behind the Prime Minister's offices is burning (on fire I guess)
Lots of people seriously injured and crying and in a state of shock in the streets
please someone with a tv tell me he's okay. fuck fuck fuck i feel so sick.
according to Norwegian TV2
just seen the images. i cant find anything about him. shaking so much jesus christ i need to know he's okay, please someone.
please be right. shit. crying so much still. oh god fuck fuck fuck. i can't believe this.
if it's the latter, obvs hope he's okay
i want something official. is there anything official yet? actually crying more now. and i think i'm about to throw up.
reports of a 2nd blast
maybe someone else? Not sure. I am ok. It looks horrible. A friend that lives down there is coming to my place now.
Dont know much yet
Do you know if Whiterussian works around there anywhere?
And yeah I am ok thanks! Yeah but we just thought it was thunder because it's been raining pretty much all day!
hope she is too
so I'm guessing yes.
apparently didn't notice it.
i fucking hate the internet. i hate everything. please be okay please please.
the safe reports are more numerous but i'm still so scared. i need to know absolutely.
but he's right. Pull yourself together and stop being so hysterical.
Someone I care about immensely might have died. And I should be, you know, not hysterical about that? And not scared? And not desperate to know the situation?
"I see that some windows of the VG building and the government headquarters have been broken. Some people covered with blood are lying in the street," Associated Press news agency quoted him as saying.
try and help her calm down instead
but if someone is having a panic attack you help them chill out not start telling them there's something wrong with them
this thread shouldn't be about pocketmouse.
I appreciate you're concerned. Whoever did this is trying to provoke this exact reaction on a massive scale. Don't play into their hands, all the reports are saying he's ok.
but try and keep calm, it won't help to panic though I understand your anxiety
it does look bad though, I agree
Or just some politician you've got a crush on?
Cos if it's the latter you should chill cos there's going to be people who are worried about actual friends and family right now and your hysteria isn't helping.
You hyperventilating isn't going to change anything in Oslo. Now, are you ok?
Swedish news agency;
is seems like the explosion was in the fourth floor office and blew out the windows in the opposite building
Beeb still saying eight injured - surely there must be more from judging from a pic like that?
and the blast would mainly have hit people in the building and the wave gone over the heads of those in the street
falling debris would have been dangerous of course
it might not have been a bomb - maybe a gas leak ?
but if it WAS a parcel bomb then you'd have to say domestic rather than international terror
disclaimer: this is ENTIRELY speculative
you can rule out a gas leak - there's no gas network there
it's a natural defence mechanism - all disasters have their bad taste jokes. It's a confirmation of life by and for the survivors
Over here they're very tight on mailbombs, I'd imagine they'd be the same in Europe. Doesn't mean it's not a bomb though, looks pretty bad from the picture.
but there are also reports of a 2nd explosion - a car bomb is being talked about
hard to say
and another women has lost her legs
Has anyone claimed responsibility for it yet?
If it's AQ then they rarely claim attacks.
Gut feeling is it will be a 7/7 style bombing with people doing it with no to few links with existing groups.
I didn't know anything about until my friend Olaf sent out a round-robin saying that although he was only 2 mins walk away from the scene, he was uninjured.
Fuck this world sometimes.
Norwegian officials not confirming that though.
Is now "deaths" according to police.
sadly, I've seen some gruesome pics - definitely deaths
and now Oslo Police confirm it was a bomb
really awful. Is anything particular happening in Oslo at the moment (eg political summit) or is it just random timing?
terrorist group last week.
I don't think it would be that cos Kurds have never really attacked anywhere outside Kurdistan or the neighbouring countries
THere wasn't anything that immediately sprang to mind as a motive for the attack.
just saw a dead body pic, fucking hell.
Hope it doesn't go any higher.
ffs some people
before the body's been identified and loved ones notified etc etc
after the revelations of the last few weeks you should know this.
because the guardian think that part of being a hard-hitting newsy newspaper requires them to publish photos of dead bodies alongside stories.
Sometimes it's justified, but I think often the lines get a bit blurred and it becomes part of the arrogant 'thisistheNEWS' mindset of journos.
if they tell me there are dead bodies in the text, I'll believe them.
I haven't seen any of these photographs personally but I do think that is completely unacceptable.
We, the 24-hour-news-watching-public have no inalienable right to see those bodies, and showing them before they're been identified, the families have been notified and their names have been released to the public, is in my opinion the unpleasant realisation of an unhealthy urge to look at horrors in the face, perhaps so as either Kafka or Barthes or someone says 'If you can have all of something directly in front of you you can forget it'. Photojournalism to me isn't an excuse. These photos would still be news two weeks later, and incredibly disrepectful to the subject to imagine they need to be rushed out. This isn't Kevin Carter we're talking about, I can't see a reason why seeing physical bodies rather than knowing that death happened would compel the world public to take any required action.
I also think there are big question about whether large media outlets interviewing eye-witnesses immediately after the event is more dangerous than helpful.
Pretty much confirms terrorism in some capacity. The thought of secondary devices is terrifying.
a car bomb wouldn't have set that 4th floor fire
and a 4th floor parcel bomb wouldn't have mangled that car
unless there was something up there that exploded.
The rumours that there are more car bombs is frightening though- where do you evacuate people to, and via what route? Secondary blasts are usually designed to catch people fleeing the initial blast.
there's no gas main in the area, and police have already confirmed it's one or more bomb(s).
and maybe he works for norway gas or whatever, but how would he even know that?
one of the great things about twitter is that you have access to the entire world's media newsfeeds
Speculation about what may or may not have caused the blast is pointless. I read the 7/7 thread recently and it was full of idle speculation which in a few cases was calmly asserted as fact, why? It doesn't help anybody.
The facts will be established later!
you don't get the information 'from twitter' you get the information from eye witnesses who disseminate that information ON twitter
if you can navigate through it all it's actually just as reliable and far more instantaneous than BBC TV news or whichever source you wait for for confirmation
though they seemed surprised about it - I think they might even have got the information from twitter, or at least confirmation of it
and people saying 'why is oslo trending?'.
...if you know how to navigate it...
while speculation doesn't exactly help, it's natural to want to talk about it.
ok whatever. bye.
you're sleeping on the sofa tonight.
why do you have to wait until official statements before you discuss a subject? surely at that point there isn't anything left to discuss?
Hopefully that will clear a few things up, hopefully.
So far, police cannot say anything about the scope of the damage, aside from that there's been one or several explosions.
I hope this is an error
I really really hope this is a mistake
Stoltenberg is actually at this camp
It seems whatever the story behind today's events someone - or some group - is trying very hard to kill the Norwegian Prime Minister
I just can't get my head around this at all. I can't deal with it. Stay safe, just stay safe, please.
This is horrific.
people are hiding and some are swimming to an island
It's difficult 'cos it must be either that or Islamist terrorism and I'm surprised either are coordinated enough to pull off a synchronised attack and a second attack elsewhere...
USA or Israel ?
this is crazy - the target looks like the Norwegian PM.
Who has the muscle for a job of this magnitude?
Didn't 7/7 boil down to four malcontents with a shed full of chapati flour?
I mean, that's the scary thing about it. Autonomous cells going unnoticed until they decide to do something like this.
it's web known that other capitals and large cities arm targets now that main cities, like Madrid/Moscow/London have already been attacked
not to forget the Mohammed drawings.
So unless the terrorists got confused it's probably not that...
6.09pm: NRK is reporting that an unknown group called "Helpers of the Global Jihad" have posted a message that this is only the beginning of the reaction to Norwegian periodicals publishing the Muhammed cartoons, according to Andrew Boyle, a journalist in Norway.
Though nonetheless I've a strong suspicion "Helpers of the Global Jihad" are the kind of opportunists that seem to spring up to claim credit after terrorist attacks no-one's yet owned up to.
a numbers game for maximum destruction, fear and headlines
and while this attack, on the face of it, has all those ingredients too it actually seems much more specifically an attack first on the offices of the Prime Minister and then to have a man, disguised as a Police Officer, with a semi-automatic weapon located at a political summer camp and attempt to directly attack the PM is not the MO we're used to from AQ
it's really, really strange
and I feel awful about everything that's happened today :(
Far Right terrorism?
I suspect it is one of the two I mentioned - I'm surprised at the coordination.
I suspect it has to be homegrown terrorists purely 'cos of the personal aim at the PM...
We sit at water: and a man who fires ikledd politiuniform. Help us in as the police will
We are well staying in, awaits situation. New shots n
"TV2, 1500 metres from Utøya, speaking to youths: "A man, 190 cm tall, blonde hair, light skin, athletic, disguised in police uniform" there goes the islam theories
an assassination attempt made out to look like the work of Al Qaeda ?
Not suggesting it's most likely, but you can't rule out islamic terrorism because someone involved is white.
But as an assassination attempt, surely with that planning, they'd know Stoltenberg was appearing the next day?
but im not sure how likely that is given how secular norway is...but it seems like noone has a clue whats going on atm. I wouldnt be surprised if its just some crackpot jumping on the back of the (rather professional?) bombs in oslo
and although that alone doesn't necessarily mean much, the police are also saying that they do have cause to believe that the two incidents are very much related
maybe he was scheduled to be in his office - perhaps just leaving his office when the bomb was timed
if they were just going to assassinate then they wouldn't have been able to claim the 'terrorism' angle in the way most people define it
but I'm just guessing of course
leave norway alone, it's the best country
totally shocking, hope this is the end of it.
but they have captured the gunman
hope that's not true
saying between 25 - 30 people :( but nothing is confirmed yet
but they're also saying that this number will definitely increase as they search the island more thoroughly. they have also confirmed now that they have found explosives stowed away at the site
i'll post some of the rumours/unofficial reports going around later, i've not been home today though so haven't been much online yet and only on my sister's laptop now. ran out of battery on my mobile a few hours ago as well, great day for that
though some of it is being covered it the currently ongoing press conference
You'll still get your gossip.
but if you are, you're succeeding
Bloody hell, you must be insecure.
So far, everyone I know seems to be ok. We still dont know who the dead people are tho
might still be kids hiding away around the island as well
"a few hundred" anyway. pretty small place as well though so it must have been pretty difficult to find places to hide. and obviously because of the police outfit they didn't know what was going on at first. the "policeman" had at first asked them to come to him and then as they approached him just plain out assassinated them
locals on islands/mainland nearby have saved many lives by going out in boats and helping kids to shore
Don't know if that means they were all on the island at the time (well, obviously some weren't, like that story below), or if that was the expected attendance, or what. Are these sort of political youth camps common in Norway?
it's a summer camp for members of their youth parties
plus the actual politicians tend to make appearances as well. i think the PM was meant to stop by and make a speech tomorrow
and heat cameras (is that what they're called?) and whatnot... but anyone they find now will most likely be dead won't they
and how he didn't know if he could really trust anyone enough to climb into their boats or if he would literally be killed as soon as he got in
it's ok for a five minute swim in the afternoon sun, like.
he'd been just back on the mainland with a couple of others to get some provisions from the shop, and the boat back to the island had left before they got back. they were informed that a policeman had insisted the boat left at once, and that this was standard procedure or something relating to the bombs in oslo. obviously that "policeman" was the gunman, so the kid was (obviously) now pretty relieved not to have made it back onto the boat, and is happily reunited with his mum
those kinds of situations must make you fcking delighted to be alive. lucky lad.
in that situation, most people would trust him instantly. The news had footage of people swimming away from the island, whilst (apparently) being shot at, I just can't begin to imagine how terrifying that must have been.
probably searching for more explosives and like, evidence and stuff i guess. we've not heard anything about a motif or anything yet
the s*n knows no bounds.
but they've splashed that up there as well.
after the Oklahoma City bombing, which wound up looking a bit stupid afterwards.
i noticed a bit further up there had been discussions of where the main explosion came from. as far as we know, there were no explosives *in* any of the buildings. it it still believed to have been some kind of car bomb. seems mental, seeing as people felt it so far away. they seem to have mainly felt it further east though, i was further west and i didn't feel a thing, and no shattered windows or anything
hope the same goes for loved ones and the like
no one i know was hurt. my sister was pretty close to the scene but is physically fine.
the timing of this, which indicates that at least the bomb in oslo was mostly meant to scare people (or maybe distract them?), was fortunate in the respect that most people working around where it happened will have been away on holiday or left early if they were in work earlier that day
you probably already know this, but current official reports say 7 dead in oslo, 10 dead at utøya
glad you're OK
re the bombs, I don't see how a car bomb on the street could start a fire on the 4th floor
also, it seems like far-right extremism to me
then 23 years old, in possession of guns, dynamite, and police uniforms. far right sympathies. but like i said, these are internet speculations, not even the pushiest tv reporters have brought this up yet
Anders Behring Breivik - member of various extreme right groups
pretty odds-on that someone who cold-bloodedly opens fire on the labour and social democrat youth is gonna be a far right nutjob
been away from the internet all day so only just realised how bad it is. Anyone know any problems/tensions/issues/extremist groups there may be there that could have potentially done something like this, its seems weird to have something so big come out of nowhere
I particularly liked his comment at the press conference about retaliating with a stronger democracy. Class.
he's often criticised for not being enough of a strong leader type. he has thoroughly disproved that today. i can't think of anyone who would have been better suited to lead us through this thing
his tone was just right - not vengeful but determined. Can't have been easy to be so calm and statesmanlike considering the circumstances, but he was.
so probably won't be too long before we know more about him. i'm really tired but don't really know if i can go to sleep just yet
after the massive shitstorm News Int have copped for over the last fortnight. Just astonishing.
"we meant it was al-Qaeda-STYLE, as in 'a couple of near-simultaneous terror attacks that have drawn comparisons/suggestions of aQ being involved', and it's a well-known reference point for the British public".
Finding it far, far harder to believe/accept the Mail just aren't running with it at all.
The link below has a front page with no sign on it, maybe they changed it at the last minute?
norwegian language article: http://www.vg.no/nyheter/innenriks/artikkel.php?artid=10080610
...by not bothering to run the story on their front page!
Mail: http://i.imgur.com/eh7JQ.jpg 'Cleared: Man who killed a burglar - no charges for hero homeowner.' + The queen doesn't like Kate's Dress.
Express: http://i.imgur.com/JhPBa.jpg '150 human animal hybrids grown in uk labs.' + The queen doesn't like Kate's Dress.
+ as mentioned, The Sun: http://i.imgur.com/BJSjH.jpg
wtf scandinavia is god tier
Consequences of Pragmatism
War and Peace Leo Tolstoy
The Iliad and the Odyssey
Critique of Pure Reason
The Wealth of Nations
An Essay Concerning Human Understanding
The Prince Niccolò Machiavelli
The Divine Comedy by Dante Alighieri
The Republic by Plato
That's the kind of class you just don't get with British terrorists these days.
If it was one of you guys I'm gonna be truly fucked off.
How can one person manage to shoot 80 people? This is so so horrific.
and everyone else is unarmed
That's absolutely gobsmacking. RIP.
Absolutely lost for words :(
its truly sad to think how fucked up some people can be. To walk about gunning down kids is just unreal.
check out the threads on Lucianne.com, my favourite conservative American nutbag forum.
Here's how the discussions develop.
1: Story breaks. Not much info forthcoming. Comments:
"So, the 'religion of peace' strikes again huh?"
"Anything remains possible, but everyone knows that Muslims are by far the most likely culprits"
"Watch liberals tie themselves up in knots trying to blame the United States and, of course, Israel"
"To the white people of Europe: You can run, but you can't hide. So man up and kick these invaders out"
2: More reports follow. No physical descripton of the killer issued. Comments:
"Their not telling us what he looks like. 100% proof that this is an Islamic job"
Also, "Have you heard from any dismayed or heartbroken moderate muslims? No. I haven't, either. Perhaps they're busy celebrating".
3: More reports. Now the killer is being described as blonde. Comments:
"I like how they are so quick to point out he was 'blonde and blue-eyed' yet when it's a muslim, you get NO physical description"
"There are many Chechen tall blonde Muslims"
"Something's fishy about this... clearly we're not being told everything".
More reports. Now the guy is not only blonde, but also has a name that isn't Ahmed or Iqbal, and has links to rightwing Christian extremist groups. Comments:
"Huh, so now they're going to blame Sarah Palin???"
"How long till they claim he's a member of the Tea Party?"
"Watch the liberal media have a field day with this one"
"This guy could not do these things without the arabs govnerments help."
"Even if he's home grown, it doesn't mean that he's not a Muslim terrorist."
Also, [supreme irony] "I can guarantee you that he ain't no Christian".
Oh yeah - and "The only gun on that island was the killer's... guns can save lives as well as take them"
Such dumb cunts.
I am shocked. Really didn't think the number would be that high
It's so unreal that this has all happened. It's like a very bad dream.
Thank god they took that man alive. The sad thing is that he will be seen as mentally unstable, and will live the "good" life here in Norway. The prison here is way too good for him. I hope he will be hunted down the day he gets out and gets his real punishment then.
but I'm kind of fascinated by US political culture in all its manifestations. The mindless groupthink on the Right never ceases to amaze, especially in this case as Lucianne.com professes to be a serious political discussion forum.
Anyways, Oslo huh. 80+ fucking people, just insane.
84 teenagers at summer camp.
someone just tweeted this: "Last year there were 29 murders in Norway all together. This puts todays massacre truly to perpective. #osloblast #osloexpl"
but obvs they can't share too many details yet.
apparently the shooting spree went on for about two hours.
fucking hell. I can't believe this.
The guy's account was fucking harrowing though. Its made me feel a bit ill. :(
probs gonna walk in later
"apparently the guy, dressed as a police officer, gathered people around him under the pretense of informing them of what had happened in Oslo. Then he opened fire. And in the ensuing panic he motioned people over to him before shooting them. And when people tried to swim back to shore, he picked them off one by one, sniping them with a rifle..."
As for the media fuck ups, um, no, I just don't have anything to say about any of this. Horrific.
but here's his twitter profile that he apparently set up just days ago
Gonna be weird to see it all. I saw some broken glass last night as I took the bus down to town with my friend who was going home, but nothing more.
sure it'll be weird as all fuck, but it's important to meet people and talk about what's happened as well as taking back oslo
...but Jesus. I can't get much beyond sighing and shaking my head right now.
when i went to bed last night they were saying 7, can't believe it. horrifying.
91 altogether. Will probably be more at Utøya
of this page.
It's not a fucking sport.
get to the island while the kids were being gunned down.
most of the resources had been dragged to Oslo for the bomb, also, they couldn't just drive up, its an island. I know that it sounds like it took them ages, but also, approaching the island on a boat whilst someone is shooting must be quite a difficult operation.
surely both safer and quicker.
or where they were, and also what the police actually knew about how serious the situation was on the island.
in all the newspapers today it says 'possibly up to 20 shot' and that was at the time of going to press so it's clear that nobody really had any idea of what was going on/whether there was more than one person/more bombs or anything.
there are some eyewitness reports about gunfire from two directions on the island but I guess the whole thing was pretty disorientating
but still, that's a long time
it's looking more and more like an intended distraction from the "real" tragedy
it seems he had a farm, as cover for stockpiling fertilizer for bombs
but it does seem difficult to believe he acted completely alone
and it looks set to rise too
so many harrowing eyewitness stories from teenagers on the island
but the British media ... Jeez, so patronising towards the Norwegians
and the whole 'Al-Qaeda' thing - some people need to have a long, hard look at themselves
...I wonder if all Christians and Right-Wingers are going to be forced to condemn and distance themselves from this action
They are now dying at a rate of more than 250 per day - that's one child every six minutes. This is totally unacceptable and we must all act now to help save lives.
I hope this doesn't distract from the biggest disaster going on right now.
They are now dying at a rate of more than 250 per day - that's one child every six minutes. This is totally unacceptable and we must all act now to help save lives.
and attempt to supercede it with another 'more worthy' subject
compassion is neither mutually exclusive nor a competitive sport
that is all
It was pretty obvious why he'd put "more worthy" in quotes. And entirely appropriate to do so.
you're fighting against false monsters
You don't have a clue what anyone in this thread feels or cares about the situation in Africa and so you infer an outrage from nothing
and even if you did have a clue who the hell are you to judge how other people should feel?
this whole part of the thread is an embarrassing distraction
and to a lesser extent s_p_g's (as he has clarified his position) to be the embarrassing distraction
ie not the discussion of Africa but the so-called moral high ground that you are grappling for
let me state quite clearly that I do not believe in judging other people's feelings
there is a huge complexity in our reactions to things, events, stories etc and everyone's reaction is informed by their own personal experience
but over and above that you have jumped to a massive conclusion about other people's feelings
so, to recap
1) judging others on their opinions - not my thing but fair enough if it's your thing
2) judging people on your own imagination of their opinions - sanctimonious bullshit and, in the context of this thread, an embarrassing distraction
___I am also making no judgements on people more interested in one thing over another___
link me to where anyone said that the Norway events were more important than the events in Africa
actually, don't bother because this branch of the thread needs to end
Unless you have a plan to re-route the entire of human psychology so people no longer empathise more with circumstances they can relate to, this isn't going to work out.
What's more, what exactly the plan here? Are we going to play a game of worthy bingo? Do I now need to go and find someone who's actively part of the relief team from the famine to label you a lazy, inhuman scumbag for the fact you're sat on your arse berating people when you could be booking your next flight to East Africa to actually do something?
If you can imagine yourself in the same circumstance I think you're likely to try and help but if it's circumstances entirely alien to your own experiences then you just can't picture what it'd be like to be in that circumstance and hence find it much harder to motivate yourself to do something.
a common myth
Probably more to do with the fact it's almost impossible to report from the area affected. If it hadn't been Somalia then it would have been much bigger news, probably comparable to the famine's in North Korea or Burma
is that we can actually do something about the famine situation. whereas we can't do anything to bring back those who lost their lives in oslo. don't think he meant to come across morally superior or anything like that.
Obviously, as Anschul points out, these actions are not mutually exclusive. It is possible to donate to the famine appeal, as many Brits have already done, and no doubt many DiSers have already done, AND talk about this Norwegian tragedy.
I was just hoping to remind people of the famine situation, who would ordinarily donate but had been distracted/unaware due to these attacks, and other (e.g Murdochgate) news coverage. Perhaps any European DiSers would like to encourage their governments to donate more?
For what it's worth, Norway has significantly increased its contribution to the famine appeal (I think proportionately their government has now given much more than the UK), showing what a great country it is:
In so far as this is quite clearly a thread specifically about what happened in Oslo, a couple of people who posted on here are in Oslo and others probably know people in Oslo.
It seems a weird place to start berating them for talking about, erm, Oslo. If you'd started a thread fair enough but this didn't feel like the time or the place. You come across a bit like the guy from Blue who days after 9/11 berated the American media as they weren't concerned about saving the elephants.
completely. not the time or place
And it's understandable, as you have said, for people to empathise with people they can more easily relate to. But that doesn't mean we should lose focus of the suffering of other people who are harder to immediately relate to.
If I'd have started another thread would anyone have noticed? I somehow doubt it.
you made that part up
It's not even mentioned on the main BBC news webpage:
And if people don't hear about a story, they're less likely to do something about it.
and care but it is a situation that doesn't lend it self to discussion as easily, there are complicated social economic political and environmental causes that are beyond the scope of non experts and is a realitively static though deteriorating situation, where as what happened in norway is shocking in a different way and with developments unravelling during the time of this thread it was obviously going to have more discussion around it
It is 'more worthy', in the sense that things can be done to actually prevent significant harm from occuring.
There is competition for awareness. If people don't know, or forget, that other things are going on that they can actually significantly contribute to, then in effect compassion does become mutually exclusive.
and how exactly are you so confident in your insight into what people do and do not care about?
do you see?
If you want to discuss the famine the very least you could do is start a thread about it and discuss it there
But if someone generally cares about people in Norway, they should care about people in the Horn of Africa.
Obviously, if someone has stronger links to Norway than Africa, as some DiSers do, then it is reasonable to care about what you know.
As far as I'm aware, and as Ho_Fo pointed out, there was not a massive thread on DiS about the famine, or the mass killings e.g in Sudan.
Er, yes you were. You did it quite clearly in your initial post when you said we all needed to act now. At least stick to your guns man.
as if that's somehow a greater issue than the deaths of 84 people...
If countries in the area were well-governed, with better infrastructure, then they wouldn't need to rely so much on international aid. There are questions about the most effective ways of giving aid, about who's actually controlling the area and whether they are helping or preventing aid getting through, and how it got to this stage in the first place. There could even be stuff on e.g development of drought-resistant genetically modified crops, and whether opposition to GM in Europe is doing more harm than good.
Most shops are closed. There's a lot of people in town
Faux-panic attack over your fears for the safety of a politician you've never met? Man up.
Has Norway taken over from Canada as the 'indie country' or something?
I hope nobody you know or are related to is ever killed, wounded or targetted in a bombing/shooting. I don't think you'd cope.
and as someone said up there a bit obscene. It smacked of attention seeking and trying to make a tragedy about her.
It's not like I was just like "hey, I like the PM of Norway, he's involved in this, I should post something". Everyday for years I've checked and translated news articles, social media stuff etc. I don't give a fuck if you think it's sad, but you saying that I have no right to be upset about someone I don't know is ridiculous.
"disturbing", "obscene", "attention seeking"???? You think I really gave a fuck about myself when I didn't know how he was. I DIDN'T.
You think it's more respectful to the event to start insulting (putting it nicely, I would say 'bullying') someone in this thread? Seriously? Grow the hell up.
Bullying? I'm not attacking you personally, just giving my opinion on your reaction. There's a massive difference.
And you can react how ever you want. Your a fan of his, fine. I don't think it's sad (again like the ''bullying''stop imagining things that aren't there in the post)everyone is/was concerned about the people involved.
But to post constant OMG look at me look at me posts (7 of them) as a tragegy is unfolding just seemed a bit strange. And I obviously wan't the only one to think that and find it a bit inappropiate.
And since you act like a self absorbed child I will not be told to grow up by you.
what would happen if nick heidfeld was a victim of terrorism
I don't have to know someone to care about them. Maybe you do. I really don't care if other people approve of how much I care about people. I figure that usually people who are going to criticise me for caring about someone aren't going to be people I give a fuck about. Haven't been proved wrong at all in this thread.
Yes, I probably care more about people I haven't met (it's not even that there's many, maybe five or six) than others. It's pretty obvious from DiS alone that I've cared a lot about him for quite a long time. I don't really see how it makes me a bad person TO CARE ABOUT SOMEONE. Yes, some people have lost family, but is me panicking a bit on a messageboard and trying to find out info from people REALLY in any way hurtful to them? You really think that?
Seriously, sometimes DiS is so fucking narrow minded and pathetic. And people tend to think they're the opposite of that. I was frightened, I was upset and I was confused, that was all. just because you think it's 'uncool' or whatever to be like that for someone I don't know personally (however invested I am in their life) -- you don't have any kind of 'moral platform' to attack me as you're essentially claiming.
I pretty much stopped posting on DiS because I was sick of what's essentially been constant bullying. Yes, I probably shouldn't expect anything more from an internet forum. And yes, I probably should have stayed away.
as all you friends and acquaintances. I'm a lot more invested in other people's lives (people who I don't know personally) than most are. I'm aware of that. And I'm not sorry for it just because other people think it's 'uncool' or 'not how it's supposed to be'.
I was panicking and upset and needed to talk to someone, I needed to say something and do something or else I was going to break down. I'm on the other wise of the world so couldn't just phone my mum or my sister.
I don't hate that about me. The only thing I hate about me right now is that I'm feeling the need to justify myself when I shouldn't have to.
I think they're more just shocked to be confronted with somebody who is blatantly not of sound mind
Hey. you've got no reason to justify anything.
completely understandable being worried and expressing that worry to other people/to the abyss of the internet.
DiS is a pretty judgemental, cynical place and I'd just leave them to it, if i were you.
the level of intolerance in this thread is frankly disturbing
it was typed.
Fair enough - reacting verbally to something like this is perfectly understandable.
But in navigating your way through the page to click 'reply', typing out your post and then submitting it, that initial shock and confusion isn't sincere.
When you finally explain that the reason for your worry is that it's a politician you happen to 'really like', it becomes even less understandable.
Nobody's bullying you, but when a story like this is breaking and everyone is equally confused and worried, it's really not that helpful to posting stuff like you were doing early on.
shut the fuck up. Thread's not about you. /issue
Alex-in-Ciderland called her a wacko - she has a right to reply to that
And so the police could hold him up.
Also, he's not going to be executed, so I doubt someone of his state of mind would be that concerned about being put through the Norwegian judiciary.
not even dailymailing here, look it up
Police: Suspect in Norway attacks still hada lot of ammunition when he surrendered - AP
Mr Breivik's lawyer said his client surrendered after running out of ammunition.
probably shouldn't have bothered. The level of denial on there is unbelievable.
Witnesses has said they saw a second guy at Utøya
at the hotel where victims, relatives and others are being reuntied
is that right?
and Stoltenberg was there too ?
Smiling, while getting arrested
there were only 4 when I last checked. I can't believe some of the ridiculous arguments people are having in this thread
7 in the explosions
And totally out of order. Fucking self-absorbed virgin bedwetters.
summarised by Peter Beaumont: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jul/23/anders-behring-breivik-norway-attacks
i think as always it's more to do with individual factors like personal situation and mental health, more than any over-riding ideology driving on but i think it does provide some kind of relief from the initial feeling of 'just why would this happen' to see some of the frameworks in which he was thinking.
i don't think he can be fairly described as a 'lone shark' in the way the media has tried to, simply because of the framework of people w/ similar views he's contacted and his clearly set-out 'agenda'.
many of his views are very much a part of or not far from the mainstream
I hear people around here say things like that all the time :S
big fan of Melanie Philips apparently.
Norway · Europe · The far right · Race issues
Varg Vikernes to be depicted in black-metal biopic
must confess i was working through the board posts and skipped the summary. yes that's stupid. judging by his facebook page he was also a massive fan of trance music. and as far as i've seen no-one has suggested that leads to terrorist.
> also fundamental disconnect in the way people look at terrorists. islamists are simply agents of an global ideology without private lives whereas crimes not seemingly motivated by religion are considered in terms of passively 'what went wrong', the mistakes of society or his family...etc
and that our city is still ours. (and listen to amy winehouse whilst doing so)
have a good evening, all.
out on a saturday night in one of the few places that was open as usual, around the corner from the closed off area. Maybe four other people there apart from me and my friends, empty dancefloor, hardly anyone on the streets outside.
Breivik's attorney has, in a radio interview with NRK, confirmed that his client belongs to an international network of right-wing extremists. He said that he's planned his actions for a long time, and has requested the hearing on Monday to be open for world media, so that he can reveal all.
it's 1,500 pages long so I obviously haven't gone through the whole thing, but there's at least one Melanie Phillips article included in there along with calls for an 80-year European civil war to eradicate Islamic/multicultural influence and surreal stuff about World of Warcraft.
The reason being that people won't question you being out of touch for long periods of time when you're working on a "project", and there's enough of a stigma attached to it that they'll make excuses for you to less close friends about your erratic schedule.
Fun fact: he apparently played World of Warcraft on the same server as me (no, I've never interacted with him in-game). His character's name was "Conservatism".
"Say you think you are gay and are in the process of discovering your new self and that you don’t want to talk any more about this issue. Tell them that you are ashamed of it and you don’t want to talk any more about it. Make them swear to not tell anyone! (your ego is likely to take a dent unless you are secure in your own heterosexuality, because they will actually believe you are gay. However, it’s an extremely effective strategy for stopping questions and prevent people from digging in your life when you don’t want them to."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZXcGqllpYc Alex Jones at it again. This is why I hate conspiracy theorists.
I kind of want to wade in and argue but I know trying to use reason makes no sense in these kinds of circumstances...
Looks like there are quite a few British contributors...
is whether we should really be paying the guy any kind of attention at all, seeing as him getting lots of attention seems to have been such a huge part of this. a lot of people are saying we shouldn't be posting his pictures, talking about his manifesto or "reasons" for having done what he did, etc. i personally don't see that working out.
surely it would just sway even more against it
many people don't want to grant him the satisfaction of just getting the chance to spread his thoughts or his so called ideology, because that seems to have been his ultimate goal.
a psychotic mass child murderer?
it's a conundrum - a terrorist mass-murderer shouldn't be given a global platform but the public's desire and curiosity to lift the lid on just what dangerous thoughts, paths and circles can trigger this aberration is obviously strong and there are likely lessons to be learned in analysing them
I dont think there is a problem with it as long as it doesnt get out of hand, he obviously has an inflated view of himself and probably thinks now the focus is on him he has a platform to broadcast his views and maybe convince people, but what he did was so extreme and horrific he has undermined any kind of cause he thought he had, it would be better his views are forever associated with this act rather than his views and reasons remaining a mystery, people need to know how dangerous those views are so they dont become acceptable in future
if he's the White Bin Laden with a global network of Crusader Anti-Jihadists then there is a possibility that quoting him verbatim could contain trigger words and codes etc
sounds crazy huh? but most of us have accepted this reasoning re: Al Qaeda since almost precisely 10 years ago
it's almost as if the Murdoch empire are goading the powers that be into press regulation they can then declare as the end of free speech, an attack on democracy and 'political correctness gone mad' etc
or maybe they really are just tasteless fuckwits
but what the actual fuck
anyone fancy a whip round to buy this arsehole a flight to Norway to he can spout this shite in person?
yeh, if that is him and given the user above seems to recognise him it seems likely it is - surely this *must* make it harder for the daily star/right-wing pundits etc. to view the edl as the acceptable face of neo-nazism.
yeh it seems to be. here's his facebook account http://www.facebook.com/alanlake2 (apols to anyone who's a fan of that anime)...and if you look below there's a link to the forum so it must be.
"Meanwhile more details have emerged about why the police operation to capture the gunman took so long.
Local police said a boat they wanted to use to get to the island was too small and leaky to carry personnel and equipment, and they decided to wait for a special unit from Oslo.
And asked why a helicopter was not used, police chief Sveinung Sponheim said this would have taken longer as the nearest police helicopter was at a base in the south."
I think it's pretty wise, he's only going to get a forum to spout his bile otherwise.
Do you think that they'll extend the maximum sentence for him?
"normal" prison sentences can never exceed 21 years. But we have this other thing called "forvaring" - or "involutary commitment" apparently http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Involuntary_commitment which is used in cases where the person in question poses an obvious risk to themselves and society etc. (although i'm not sure if they have to be classified as technically being mentally ill or whatever, and for that reason they're not always placed in a mental insitution like that wiki article on involuntary commitment describes. Some of them are just kept in maximum security prison as far as i understand)
anyway, when this "forvaring" thing is used rather than a plain prison sentence, it too can only be 21 years to begin with, but can be prolonged by 5 years at a time. So in theory, you can actually be locked away for life. Which kind of seems to be the only realistic possiblity in this case, if you ask me.
you can't end up with a 374 year sentence for multiple murders like in some other places (is it like this in the uk? i can't remember). you can't get more than 21 years in standard prison.
yeah you can get sent down for loads of seperate convictions with sentences to run one after the other here. It must be a hell of a liberal justice system for that to be the maximum.
vikerness got 21 years for killing just one person
Was it really only 29 murders last year? Lowest homicide rate in the world apparently.
almost 60k attending on facebook so far. (we're a city of less than 600,000 people)
it will probably be the biggest of its kind and extremely emotional. i advise you to watch it online if possible, or look for pictures online afterwards.
If anyone wants to. Couldn't find a global NRK one any more...
It wasn't until I got back home last night and put on the TV that I was able to really see the images and the full scale of the devastation to this country. I couldn't stop crying- it is just incomprehensible. I'll look out for the march. Are you going to take part?
we are being encouraged via facebook etc to print out the lyrics to a very emotionally loaded song (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Til_Ungdommen) which will be sung by a choir and probably the tens of thousands of people attending. i've printed up probably over a hundred copies, hope people will take them
Seeing the front page of the 'manifesto' on the Telegraph website, I recognised the picture he used there and the title 2083 from an advert than ran in the classifieds for a while. I'm pretty certain it linked to his email address, or similar. Problem is, I've thrown all my old copies away and it's not in the current issue. Can anyone else check?
in the classifieds section. A boxout normally with 2083 as a title in bold, then some text, sometimes with a picture of him in uniform. I'd always noticed it because I always find those listings compelling reading - people trying to get their novels published, etc - and thought there was something really unusual about the picture he used.
I'm certain this happened, but have no way to prove it. I don't think it's been picked up in the media so far, either.
I'll dig around and have a look.
I just can't really comprehend that someone could do this. There's a kind of inherent cowardice in bombings, but standing there, gunning down unarmed children. It's a cold blooded calculating brutality I find impossible to comprehend another human being inflicting on others :(
I can't stop thinking about him being dressed as a policeman and calling the children over to him. It's an image that'll stay with me forever I think.
not for the squeamish id say.
has anyone watched the video Breivik uploaded to youtube before doing what he did? He basically sets himself as a modern day Knight and hero.
Yeah, shooting a bunch of unarmed kids is pretty heroic.
only while he's sat in the police car, though.
imagine being one of the Police who had to interrogate him knowing what he'd done
I'd be massively fighting off the urge to go Dark Knight on him
I'd be heeling his face off
blates go for the disappearing pencil trick.
stuff like this usually ends up being about a girl.
whatever he's a fucking loser and doesn't warrant any of our attention.
It's kinda ironic that by its very nature, a well-written and reasoned peice like that will just prompt further discussion (over 1000 comments).
No doubt some silly journalists will see fit to use this all as a link to opinion and discussion on multiculturalism and why it's actually dead good and stuff. That would be giving this guy a place in the debate. He needs to be compltetely cut out from any public discourse because his deranged opinions are so irrelevant to all of us.
they've lowered the death toll from Utöya to 68 from 86
does that mean that 18 kids drowned trying to escape or that the previously unaccounted for turned up ?
This figure could still go up and the search (for bodies) is ongoing. On Friday afternoon the situation was very chaotic. The police had to put the accent on helping the wounded and providing emergency care, it's possible that victims were counted several times.
Just incredible. Really strong feelings. It sounds strange, a little, but I just can't wait to get back to Oslo now.
Also, picture 9 seems to have lots of pixelated areas...I'm not sure I want to know what they are :(
- Geert Wilders is Danish
- Muslims are overrunning the cities of Europe
- Muslims are taking over all the local education boards and stuff in Europe
- right-wing people in Europe want big govt, i.e. the right-wing in Europe is 'different than' the right-wing in America (subtext: no link between the Norwegian terrorist and 'true' right-wing views)
- EVERYONE who wants big govt ends up committing terrorism (seriously)
- kids on a political summer camp is kinda like the Hitler Youth
the fact that the Tea Party are running summer long camps to brainwash children - http://crooksandliars.com/john-amato/tea-party-child-indoctrination-camps
Disgusting, stupid hypocrite.
I suppose he's also playing up to his lackwit fan base but it seems he genuinely has no morals whatsoever.
Or at least that he's just an entertainer and doesn't really take what he says seriously.
Which obviously makes him an even bigger c-word.
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