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you can take part if you haven't voted yet but only if you have 100% made up your mind
pretty sure ^this is a list of every yes voter in the country.
Let's make him feel bad.
...it's a shame that this referendum will have a result which is perfectly proportionally representative of the voting electorate.
So, in a way we all win. Right...?
that's not trolling, it's just being objectively annoying. Stop it.
But, yeah, it's definitely not trolling.
besides your good self
How else will I know who to include on the ban request list I'll shortly be sending to wishpig?
zapsta, virago, geoffmylawn and I dunno, fullerov?
I think sometimes he just argues against the DiS consensus for the sake of it.
Maybe he was just trollin'
Undecided and too busy to vote. There are too many good arguments against both systems.
Just not this time. Strange.
I bet everyone hates me now.
Now I'm alone. I find this strangely empowering.
JUST GO AHEAD AND BAN ME.
I lost count of the amount of times you left unanswerable posts on AV unanswered over the last few months. I just assumed it was because you were unable to come up with a counter-argument.
Turns out we actually won you over though. Cool.
Take a look at this comrade:
Smee's guide to attention seeking:
pretending to be gay >> pretending to vote yes to AV
from the rest of the country
I'd probably ^this it.
i mean, i want to vote no, but i also want babies to die and troops to be denied body armour. Dilemma..
for those of us to stupid to understand the question and who fill in the boxes with crayon (being careful not to go outside the lines)
vote casual cat http://www.youtube.com/v/HiHuiDD_oTk?fs=1&hl=en_US&rel=0
unless something distracts me
Points out there's an FHM 100 sexiest women thread.
fixing your brain problem with brain surgery is pretty complicated
which do you want?
STOP TROLLING ME
is it CG?
Would have voted yes.
I really still haven't decided. Since there's nothing else to vote for I'll probably just go home and tidy instead.
the candidate who comes third can end up winning.
whats going on?
It only ended up winning when the other preferences were reallocated. It assumes that the later preferences were as valid as a first choice.
virago is arguing nothing other than 'the way it's always been is the fairest way because that's the way it's always been'
Shouldn't be equal to the first preference of another voter.
and even if it were persuade me why it shouldn't
But I really don't see why it's even vaguely applicable in this instance.
doesn't make it confusing
It would take a long time to explain the various plotlines of Eastenders - but they're still pretty simple
I am the Prince of Analogies today. And the Duke of Being Trolled.
Because I can't find it
It's inaccurate though, it says the procedure continues until someone passes 50%, but in a lot of cases the 50% threshold will never be reached as people aren't required to list all the candidates.
just means 50% of the remaining votes
Find me where it does? You have to get over 50% of the votes cast in that round. That's obvious.
jesus christ, it's a wonder no2av people manage to tie their own shoe laces in the morning
I hear the human respitory system is pretty complex, maybe you should just not breathe anymore - keep it simple.
It's the whole one person/one vote principle. In each 'round' of voting, you can either use your whole vote, or decide you're out.
but it's all about reform cat
You're a monster. It would've ruled over a majority of cats.
is that although the opinion of the majority is mixed, the one thing they are united upon is that they do not want the dog.
This is a correct opinion.
you don't really care who else gets in and you don't feel that you'd rather one party got in over another?
If he can't have his Tory MP he's gonna throw his toys out of the pram and go home after the first round of voting.
It's that kind of attitude that'll let the BNP sneak in. Pretty disgusting, really.
which ties in quite nicely with the fact that it's a preference voting system anyway.
so what it's basically attempting to replace is tactical voting, where you vote for a candidate not because you like them but they are the one whose smell you can tolerate the most and it's the only way you feel your vote will count.
Not very effectively of course, but that's a different story entirely.
except that it's an unlikely real world scenario.
What I find funny about these AV example videos is they presuppose one party being so loathed that no one else will vote for them, and that all other parties oppose them enough to be considered similar, so it appeals to the sort of person who feels they hate one party so much they just want it out of power.
If the main parties had been forced to actually stay out of the debate we might not have seen a lot of voters interpret the 'loathed' party to be the Conservatives and the 'winner under AV' grouping to be various factions of a generally leftist/liberal group.
And it is hilarious to see it that way because all sides are just as fractured and that one traditionally winning party that is suddenly toppled by a general dislike is as likely to be Labour as Conservative.
How Scottish politics works.
You mean 'how Westminster politics works in Scotland'?
The Tories hold their own in actual Scottish (Holyrood) politics and will likely be in third place. Lib Dems, however, are running the risk of being shunted down into fifth behind the greens.
I shall stop now.
-they didn't 'come third'
-the 'race' hadn't finished
-the dog was idiotic enough to think being good at the hundred meters and leading for 10 seconds was sufficient to win a 400 meter race.
Because the aim is to get 50%
It's like saying Chelsea went 1-0 up but last 2-1, how is that fair?
We unfairly WON 2-1 last time out
where homer's rallying the troops to vote 'No' to proposition 24 and they all chant 'No on 24! No on 24!'. And then it cuts to Kent Brockmen: 'A landslide, 'Yes' on proposition 24'.
Except this is other other way round. Maybe. And not as funny.
Warsi getting schooled by Adam Boulton on AV (starts at 1:10):
what a fuckwit.
fucking dim to get pwned by Adam Boulton.
Just find somewhere quiet to end it all, Warsi.
Trying to educate us on the pros and cons of a system she has never been subjected to - idiot. Horrid woman
fucking stupid you can still get to the top.
this is torture
so fucking embarrassing
Your journey to dark (light) side will be complete
between Mandelson and Warsi, I would want Mandy to win.
that's missing in Warsi. Can't stand him either though.
Paxman was interviewing him and Warsi at the same time last year during the BBC's coverage (with maybe Ashdown too) and even then, I would have applauded wildly had Mandelson bludgeoned Warsi perhaps 14 or 15 times in the head with his chair.
and Mandelson is a massive cunt
just parading him around, with no real purpose, is one of the most bizarre decisions in politics.
What did Labour believe people would think? 'Not sure about Brown and voting labour, not sure about it at all...what's this? mandleson is back? oh great! I really missed that guy!!'
i think brown would have gone down much more resoundingly, maybe earlier, with a lot more senior Labour figures wanting to stick the knife in, had Mandelson not been about to stick up for him.
undoubtedly Mandelson is a fucking wanker though.
well that's me convinced
and The Conservatives actually put their name and their silly tree logo to that?
Right now it could just be some lefty photoshop jocky's wet dream.
so it should be legit.
Isn't that to the Tory party what George Galloway is to actual leftwingers?
sounds like a vote-winner to me
they could easily have crowbarred a bulldog* in there somewhere.
*in a top hat and a cigar
That Churchill thought FPTP was fucking useless as well (his words I believe)
which was in 1951 when the Tories got 48% of the vote and Labour got MORE VOTES with 49%. So he wasn't even the 'winner.' The winners did not win!
FPTP is absolutely fucking terrible. Why is anyone ok with it?!?!?!?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Guy: "What's the referendum?"
His dad: "The middle one."
Guy: "No but what's it for?"
Just cut and paste into a word document and did a word count
Do you have to keep making the same satirical pun over and over again? We get you don't think it's simple
Practice for something that will never happen, innit?
if you're the type that stays up for these things
Looks like most of the areas I'm interested in aren't declaring until tomorrow, so I'm not sure if I'll stay up or not. Maybe just until a few come in at 1am or so.
Thought the odds of that would have been pretty slim.
I've been polled a few times by them on this already. I think they use larger samples that phone polls which stick to 1000 or so.
They should really just do elections via DiS.
It would certainly do politicians good to think about how to appeal to the vegan benders vote.
a benevolent DiS dictatorship is evidently the way forward
although according to actual exit polls apparently No has won by a landslide :(
exit polls clearly havent taken place yet. someone is lying.
has 'No' winning by at least 20 points and that was adjusted for people who answered no being less likely to vote. 'No' is 1.03 on betfair so it's very unlikely to be anything other than a crushing defeat for the Yesers. Can't wait to see Cameron's smug face as he brings out his one armed lean at PMQs.
the opinion polls have been so strongly in favour of a no vote I just can't see any other outcome. But a creditable showing from the yes campaign should at least prevent the electoral reform movement from dying out altogether.
I just voted but they only gave me one thing saying yes or no to AV. Why are people talking about parties? Was there something else I was meant to do?
there were also local elections
I'm so politicky now.
and Casual Cat wasn't listed on any.
It seemed too obvious, even as I thought of it. Meh.
The level of apathy among no supporters is worrying, especially combined with the reported low turnouts.
I should have a punt on 'Yes'?
This will be an even bigger turnaround than '92 though, can't see it happening.
I just can't help but worry! I'm also worried that the reported disenfranchisement of voters in some regions will lead to a legal challenge followed by a re-run which will be won by Yes because the apathetic No supporters won't be bothered to come out a second time... but that's probably a worry too far for now.
I'll lose £3 if it's No and win £100 if it's Yes
The £100 will be some small consolation should the worst happen.
Incidentally, the odds on Betfair for Yes have gone from 28 to 18.5 in the last few minutes.
Closed my bet off so can't lose now, 57p for No £9.50 for Yes. I'm such a high roller.
Let's not get caught up in the hyperbole of the two campaigns. It's the existing one or the almost identical one. Hardly the end of the world either way.
...I wonder what political voting system encourages these
2 for Martin!
London 1.86 million 35.4 %
South West 1.80 million 44.6%
Eastern 1.84 million 43.1%
West Midlands 1.63 million 39.8%
Yorkshire and the Humber 1.53 million 39.9%
North West 2.05 million 39.1%
North East 0.76 million 38.7%
Scotland 1.98 million 50.7%
35.4% is quite high for London, given there were no other elections. Suprised Scotland was only 50%, given the national elections there.
If the latter then it's fairly normal for people to stay at home when their choices are a party they normally vote for but which has disappointed them and other parties they don't like either, isn't it?
if it hadn't been for the AV ballot I definitely wouldn't have bothered
Got the figures from the Guardian, they didn't list Wales.
."I've just had a call from Peter Kellner, president of YouGov, who says that although the company is indeed collecting information from voters it will be for internal use and will not be published tonight.".
That's a disappointment, I was looking forward to seeing those numbers. I hope they still release them at some point.
maybe they know they dont have enough experience of uk referendums, proven assumptions from normal elections may not hold, and dont want to tarnish their reputation with a wrong prediction and are just collecting data to help them in the future, so maybe all the polls cant be trusted. Im clutching at straws though, I guess an exit poll should be pretty clear cut
Our final survey for the Sun predicted that No would win by 60-40%. Our voting-day survey indicates a further widening of the “No” lead; 62% voted yesterday to keep first-past-the-post, while only 38% supported the Alternative Vote.
It was looking good for no for a while, but not this good! Don't know why I worried.
I just LOVE having a parliament that's totally unrepresentative of the interests of british people! So lovely!
Seriously, you're celebrating like fptp is a good thing, which anyone with half a brain cell could tell you is fucking bollocks.
stop undermining me
It would be nice but it's not like the political landscape would magically change into a nice place.
but it destroys any slim that hope we could have pr one day
but at least I've won 57p
so I can join the ranks of those smugly claiming "at least my constituency voted the right way".
Twats. I'm moving.
god I fucking hate him
said that the places where yes won are the type of places that would vote to legalise cannabis D:
even if, y'know, we don't really vote them in
I love British Politics.
a 30% vote for AV is considered a 'decisive rejection' yet we regularly get majority governments with around 40% of the vote. It amazes me how so many people won't see that FPTP is fucked beyond belief.
What actually bothers me more is all the pricks who are now claiming that the result shows the country's overwhelming support for 'FPTP' when it does nothing of the kind. And that my vote's utterly meaningless for at least a generation or until I move elsewhere.
just pointing out another example of the retardedness of FPTP.
but I agree entirely with the rest of your post. I was never that enthused about AV in the first place but I'm totally fucked off about the lack of criticism FPTP has received. There's not really any point in me voting at all from now on, unless I happen to end up in a marginal seat at some point or just move to Scotland.
Bullingdon Club/NWO/Manchurian Candidate type shit and conspire to install some well-bred individuals from the boards into positions of power. We can influence political though and decisions from behind the shadows of threadsmashes and use special codewords to trigger our candidates into breaking into Andrew WK during party conferences. With the wide range of professions and expertise represented on the boards, from Big Oil to Law to the press to umbrella manufacturers I think it's definitely do-able.
The party that forms a government under AV would still get roughly less than 40% of first preference votes. AV does not provide the proportionality that is needed. AV was only ever a compromise not the final solution.
The probable fact that PR/STV/a proper alternative voting system will not be discussed for a generation is the awfulness of the Lib Dems, it has very little to do with those who voted for FPTP.
they voted against AV
as I mention above, I was never a particularly big fan of AV - I favour STV - but my yes vote was more motivated by my frustration with FPTP and the fact I can't cast my vote for a party I don't hold in total disdain and have it count for something.
I don't really buy Clegg and Miliband's insistence that backing AV would have been the end point of electoral reform. I think a yes vote would have set the ball rolling by proving the electoral will for improvement was there - how long it would have taken to get PR, I've no idea - but with a defeat as crushing as this one, it's hard to see any way forward for the reform movement.
but yes, the failure of the Lib Dems as a junior coalition partner has gone a long way to hammering the nails into the coffin. British politics is a fucking cesspit.
and I've decided that FPTP probably is better than AV. That's where I am with it at the moment, anyway. Maybe I'll change my mind again. It's quite a compelling case though, I think. I can share if anyone wants me to, although I doubt anyone cares anymore. Perhaps it'll make you feel a bit better about the fact we don't have it.
it was about a small but potentially seismic shift in the British political structure away from the, uh, impasse we have now.
to put it in perspective, the 'Great Reform Act' was in 1830, but there wasn't universal sufferage until nearly a century later.
You can argue the merits of this system versus that system until the end o' time, but I think it's a lot harder to argue against the idea that the system we have now is increasingly unrepresentative and suffering from a high degree of malaise, and that /something/ needs to change.
nobody really wanted AV, it was a compromise of the Coalition agreement. for the minor potential changes it offered it brought in an extra layer of complexity.
unfortunately its death has shelved the idea of any kind of electoral reform for this Parliament and probably the next, which is the real shame.
are really going to struggle to understand that second point. Every time the subject comes up, the establishment will simply remind everyone that in 2011 'FPTP' won a crushing victory. I'd actually go further and suggest that we're unlikely to get the opportunity for any electoral reform for another 30 years at least now, more likely 50+.