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It is all a bit grotty really, isn't it?
You know, where you're assured via some sort of govt. inspection that all parties are only doing it because they really love the work, aren't pressured in any way to perform acts they're not happy with, and have no deep-seated psychological self-hatred issues.
(This will never happen, obviously, but it would probably score highly in the Guardian demographic.)
Sticking a wind turbine up your arse.
When organic stuff first come out I thought it was called Orgasmic! So I was in sainsburys with my father and said "DADDY! LOOK ITS THAT ORGASMIC FOOD!!!" c-ringe
my old neighbour and friend in berlin kind of does this.
But then I realised that watching filthily hot women getting absolutely nailed for 20 minutes actually really turned me on. Can't fight science.
Although I don't watch porn really. I've got a girlfriend - I don't need to.
I don't disagree with porn - if people want to watch it or make it, that's fine. I just don't find it very sexy.
Particularly if you've been going out for a few years and things are starting to get a bit routine.
Sorry - I didn't mean to suggest you were self-righteous! I phrased that badly - I was just saying that I used to be very self-righteous when I was younger and porn was one of the notable things about which I was especially vocal...
I've been with a couple of people who clearly learned all their 'moves' and what to do by watching porn, and it was very awkward, awful and embarrassing (for them). It's particularly bad with blow jobs...
Also, I knew a guy who watched so much porn that he was unable to get off without it. He used to have to have porn on in the background when having sex so he would cum with his partner.
Heh. Ah ok. Well that's a problem of dreadful execution rather than of porn itself... Those people were fools by the sounds of it.
That's a poor excuse. There are many forms of ignorance (or savagery) which could be explained away by nature or 'science' - All forms of prejudice racism, xenophobia, homophobia etc. Surely we want a civilisation, not the primitive barbarity of nature?
GetOffMyLawn says can't fight nature/instinct/whatever, I say that (in principle) our very civilisation is predicated on overcoming base instincts into a better form of society.
Firstly, to lump xenophobia in with sexual arousal is pretty strange, given the former is not (to my knowledge) considered genetic.
In fact, what we're talking about here are standard biological imperatives. Yes, you can ignore hunger if you wish or you can keep running beyond the point where your body is in pain but that doesn't mean you're not hungry or that your body is in pain.
On a deeper level, your post implied that you felt GetOffMyLawn was somehow saying, "Porn turns me on therefore it's fine," which he certainly didn't say. He just pointed out that it does turn him on and he can't do much to stop that natural sexual effect. However, that doesn't mean he owns porn or makes a point of watching it. He wasn't making a moral judgement he was responding directly to the blanket claim that porn was not sexy at all.
And the fact I wasn't being entiiiiirely serious with that sentence.
otherwise this forum will dry up in seconds.
*something about Theo's mum's vagina*
button we could get a '^ Your Mum' button as well.
And a '^ LAD' one.
and avoid the crushing tedium of *some people* on here.
Bitches love that shit.
Xenophobia is cultural and genetic; sexual arousal is cultural and genetic. I know we’re talking about biological imperatives – if you are hungry that is not overcome by ignoring it and refusing to eat. But a more civilised society appreciates that it is not appropriate to harm others to satisfy the imperative. By analogy, though sexual desire may be a biological imperative, a more civilised society appreciates that it is not appropriate to harm others to satisfy the imperative. Obviously this resides in the premise that some expressions of sexual desire (specifically pornography in this case) are harmful to others.
I did infer that GetOffMyLawn was saying that the biological imperative morally justified pornography, when he referred to self-righteousness being trumped by ‘science’, but I’m happy for it to be interpreted as you’ve suggested it was meant.
Again, you haven't overcome the imperative, you've ignored it. Anyway, what you've written is primary school stuff and I think we can take it as read that everyone understands that. It's not really of much relevance to my initial response.
I assume your second paragraph is meant to start "I didn't..." in which case the only other way to interpret your reply is that you colossally missed the point GetOffMyLawn was clearly making.
You overcome the imperative by exercising it in an appropriate way. To not eat would be ignoring the hunger imperative, to eat by stealing food from others would be exercising the imperative in a uncivilised way, to eat by honestly acquiring food would be exercising the imperative in a civilised way (or 'overcoming' it in your parlance).
My second paragraph *is* meant to start "I did", because I was saying that I did initially interpret the original statement incorrectly, and I am happy to correct my mistake (assuming you have accurately characterised GetOffMyLawn's post).
saved yourself all this hassle.
However, the thread will then break so I'll have to fix that too. *sigh*
It's just that the society we have become is greedy, and never more so than for titillation.
in the primitive barbarity of nature tbh
"The chimpanzee is transfixed, masterbating furiously and failing to notice the second Gorilla coming up behind to kill it.
"Its death is swift and bloody."
just nipping to the loo for a couple of minutes. brb!
on the ethical porn releases...
I was trying to use humour as a means of diluting what would've been a rather contentious and borderline offensive post to some people. Anyway - I'm quite strict about these things:
Things You Can't Fight:
Things You Can Fight:
Ok, you were wrong, fair enough.
Look, I know you don't like me. I don't give a shit. Just take your sanctimonious twaddle elsewhere please...
I'm not remotely interested in personalities in this context. I honestly thought you were taking a side re biology vs society, and I wanted to debate that point. If you weren't being serious, fine; but it's not always clear, particularly with contentious topics. Some genuinely strenuous debates do take place on these pages, so you can hardly blame someone for initially taking it at face value. Otherwise it's just the terrible CG/TAP trolling schtick of saying something provocative *straight-faced*, continuing to argue the point(sometimes with effort, sometimes half-heartedly), and then right at the end saying "I was just joking, I don't really think that, don't take it so seriously dude, lighten up, etc".
And you still carried on. I didn't blame you for thinking I was trying to instigate strenuous debate; I merely explained I wasn't being serious in a clear and tongue-in-cheek fashion.
Listen - you're right. Ok? You're right. You enjoy being right. You've convinced me that you're right. Ok? Good.
Now, please, you're better than this...
after you said you weren't serious
is the rest of the article as good as this bit?
"There was the moment he noticed a male friend struggling not to ask the stupid, inappropriate question about oral sex that had occurred to him when a female friend mentioned her sore throat. The cock smoking slut".
I added the last bit myself.
Which is pretty impressive. Shame they seemed to gloss over it.
is to google "librarian porn".
Sounds like a promising category for fresh eroticism.
I couldn't help thinking that the chap came across as a needy, passive agressive creep.
I believe that people should do as wide a range of consensual non exploitative stuff as they feel like.
I believe that pron is industrialised and 'direct' men, 'shapes' their interest according to what is available or by what is available might suggest might become available.
I believe that it is unhealthy to have an industry based around it.
the internet/piracy is probably going to murder any "industry" around it very quickly.
Interesting. This might be the one area where the freetard arguement EVERYONE WILL JUST MAEK THERE OWN ART FOR FREE IT'LL BE GRATE actually seems to make sense.
I don't think that porn is wrong per se, but I think people would have just as much success getting themselves off on other types of visual stimuli, rather than the formulaic stuff that's so prevalent, which seems to shape what we are meant to find attractive.
I was wondering how I was going to pass my afternoon
Why watch porn when you can watch the results of Bamnan dropping a thread-bomb?
But like it describes in the story, after it's all done and you catch a reflection of yourself superimposed against a paused image of some nasty filth on your screen, you do feel pretty low, don't you?
it sounds like you're admitting some sort of problem. Which I don't have. ALL RIGHT.
There's your problem right there; not porn. Idiots.
what kind of sample is that?
100% of people thought the events were real - seriously?
Makes you harder.
that it is easy to find some really great stuff out there
beautiful lesbians with lots of kissing and no toys is the best though
and just trying to impress girls who think porn is wrong.
"It got to the point where someone groped a woman's bum in a club, and I completely flipped out."
can't believe I actually managed to turn this up:
i did my dissertation on exactly this. really really interesting
not really...it was more about how it should be defined and how that definition is key to framing the debate…ie the differences between porn and erotica, the ethics of each, and so on…
It's actually bascially about how porn is wrong and fucks with men's heads and turns them into sex obsessed dangerous people. That's pretty much the underlying (and not so underlying) theme.
It also slightly fowns upon when being sexual. It's a fucking disgrace that it's in a paper, let alone The Guardian.
brb when i've read the article in full.
I always enjoy those, though they do tend to crash my computer.
The number of girls at uni who banged on about Disney films (charming animations that they are)... he's got a point with that.
Mostly because I'm not particularly well-versed in sexual psychology.
The point about pornography exploiting men is particularly interesting, and one that I'm inclined to agree with. Which isn't to say that pornography has no ill effect on women (either in an immediate sense for many of those actively involved in the industry, or for women in a broader sense), but it is clearly a product designed to give the impression and sensation of 'fulfulling' a need.
and i do feel better for it. cleaner. stronger.
but also...erm...sort of. pent up. as it were. with no sign of a release on the horizon. only the saucy flickerings in my mind.
i was this close to getting a copy of nuts or zoo just after i got dumped. stayed strong though. *does black panther salute*
the perpetuation of this false, plastic, hollow charade that i don't want tricking my brain into thinking is the reality
and i know it's not all like that...some can be genuinely sexy and sensual. but mostly, porn is like sex, without all the best bits of sex. or the real bits of sex. so yr just wallowing in someone else's fantasies.
i dunno. i'm not being puritanical, but it just gets you down.
Most of the people in porn seem to be having more athletic, longer-lasting, more enjoyable sex with better looking women then I normally do.
What are the best bits of sex anyway? Please don't say cuddling.
Certainly helps to buy some time before it's all over shudderingly quickly.
^ A woman's needs: catered for.
like,...i dunno....subtle imperfections? and sweaty hair? and apprehension? and beard against bare skin? (my beard on her skin) and subtle, heavy, barely-repressed breathing without honking like a pig?
i dunno. it's like the difference between watching football on the telly, and going to the game. everyone knows only cunts think watching on telly is a satisfying experience. but some people think, that's all football is...that HD sheen. when it's about maybe not seeing something and not having a replay from every angle, because at least that's real.
...and i don't get a kick out of rubbing my beard on girls skin, but there's something.i dunno...real, about that juxtaposition of beard and soft skin...or something...grubby and real... like mellors fucking constance in a shed.....i dunno
jesus...i think martin amis is right, you can't talk about sex without sounding awful.
NO WONDER SHE FUCKING CHUCKED ME, THIS IS MENTAL.
HOT. IN. HERE.
she could've had this beard all over her...but she just threw it away.
poor girl. i feel sorry for her, really.
i might start a 'i never get to see michael_w or his beard again' fund to see her through...bit of pocket money to pick her up, like.
I'm sure the fund would work. Or you could just go and show her your beard and say "TAKE A GOOD LOOK AS ITS THE LAST TIME..." in a Kitty from Arrested Development style. I really want to do that to someone. Obvs with my boobs and not my beard (don't have a beard).
...and clearly banging a real girl is better than beating off to an actress in a porn film. Most of the time.
I wouldn't think about it too much personally. Porn exists because it fills the gap between our sexual realities and our sexual fantasies. Which is what you were saying in essence, but it's not a distinction which needs analysing really...
Bottom line - beat off and be merry.
the MEAT's likely to be like bloody Spring Break at this rate.
i thought it said spring roll, and i wondered what you were implying.
There's a play on at the moment which discusses the subject and involves a load of ladies who get naked and run round the stage which was being covered in a program I watched the other night. When it came to interviewing some of the cast, the sound broke and whatever they were expressing was lost, seemed a bit ironic.
Trilogy by Nic Green. Not seen it but heard it's very good.
that's the very one.
about differences between porn and erotica. Or, to use different terminology, lapdance stripping and burlesque. ;-)
that there would be a common genre where a woman was penetrated by three men at once, I would have said, 'Oh, come on'"
...but I've now seen things I don't think even Andrea Dworkin could have imagined."
favourite part of the article.
Anyone who thinks the vast majority of current porn, and the way that it is viewed, is not inherently sexist and exploitative is completely deluding themselves, however.
People need to get over it, go to youjizz.com and have a good old tommy tank.
cross his mind every six seconds.
I have male friends who say they don't watch porn, and I believe them, but I imagine about 7 or 8 out of ten men watch porn occasionally to regularly.
I'd be interested to know if any women watch porn for their own pleasure. My girlfriend back in 6th form had never seen porn, so asked to see some. Watching a bit with her was just made the whole thing seem ridiculously awful.
They just don't admit to it.
I mostly laugh at it, but the pert bottoms amnd boobs are great and the occasional hilariosu money shot. I think women respond to far more subtle visual stimulation. I think many men do too, but I'm not really sure they realise it, nor do I really know where I'm going with this. HAYULP.
Or maybe they wouldn't, considering the rise of "gonzo" porn and all. But yeah, I think the sexy bits aren't necessarily the sex bits, if you see what I mean.
Maybe one day when I find it hard to get off but I think I'm pretty randy so I'll save it when I'm IN NEED.
I don't think I need anything just yet to help me along so I think I'll wait a while before I try pornography.
although it's a slightly different thing for a heterosexual woman because male porn actors are usually yucky. I think for women it's more for the general stimulatoin, or for bi women, the lovely pert titties.
It is not about perving on the men. No, no, no.
I don't find that attractive so I think it may just be chukcling at the boobies and willies. I think I may be too immature to watch it actually. I would end up giggling if I watched it with a man whilst they were getting hard and enjoying it.
(and also laughing a bit too, badoomtish)
there are 3 women talking about porn above. just so you're aware.
i did nearly make a joke about the drummer having a wank.
SURELY there must be other women that agree with this. DON'T LEAVE ME ON MY OWN.
It depends on the type. I think watching porn where someone gets done up the bum would make me queasy
doesn't like bottom sex post.
That said, I would TRY it if I was married though. Like a little treat for marrying me. That is the only, only reason i'd do it.
Actually, I having a setomach of steal for stuff like that,I struggle with the kind of stuff where the object of the exercise is to get elbow deep with both arms in some girl's poor bottom. Like Howwww??? Also, perhaps more pertinently- WHY?
it can be fairly hot. It's just usually a bit too aggressive!
I was out of the room before the poo came out. POO = EWW.
Agree that girls probably go for the more subtle forms of stimulation. There is porn made 'by girls, for girls' out there, such as www.ifeelmyself.com (NSFW, guys, surprisingly!). This ties in with the whole 'consenting' thing as well. It is an interesting topic for sure
WHEN i FEEL DOWN
I have taken artistic liberties with this, as you'll note.
YES, porn is ruining music.
Much like a lot of porn.
But you're the one who started going on about "the right place" and who's now written "vagina"
Gonna have a little nap now I think
Right. I'm off for a cold shower.
it's probably for the best.
this is hilarious!
and it REALLY should have inverted commas!!!
There is so much wrong with it I can't even begin to explain. Complete and uttter bullshit in every way, hysterical and most of all forwns upon sex in general. YES IT DOES.
I kept on looking for the joke or ironic wink but I don't think there is one.
affects how men relate to real sexual relationships?
No, I don't. At all. No more than being a sexually frustrated young teenage male effects men's views on women.
Personally, I'm not sure. I know men have always spaffed off to porn - the first ever work of art was a sculpture of a naked woman - but I don't think the easy accessibility of nasty stuff nowadays can really be a healthy thing.
Not all porn is violent and women and treated like meat. It's a hysterical article written by clueless morons who are trying to make a point that doesn't really exist. Their evidence is a YOUNG MAN TOUCHED A WOMAN'S ARSE IN A CLUB. And a 20 year old guy THOUGHT ABOUT PORN.
Teenage boys have been whacking off 5 times a day for centuries. There's nothing unhealthy about sex. If we didn't obsess over sex, we'd die out. It's fundamnetally important we obsess over it.
The only unhealthy sort of sex obsession is like that article, or the guilt religions put on it.
that the article is the usual insulting pseudo-feminist bollocks the Guardian has taken to filling out the weekdays with recently, but I disagree that an obsession with sex cannot be unhealthy, and that the prevalence of porn and the increasing extremity of it cannot shape that.
but the fact is that women in many cases are verbally abused and sexually harassed and a lot of men have despicable (even hateful) attitudes towards women. Some of the language used in porn on the internet is horrible, disrespectful and objectifying to the extent of denying full personhood. Whether you think this is caused, correlated or unrelated to pornography is perhaps a slightly different question, but there is a societal problem at issue here, and there's a strong case for attitudes being partly formed by exposure to this sort of material.
being sex obsessed. And every bloke who's in their teens is obsessed with sex. You don't need porn to make you look at a librarian and fancy a hand shandy. It's just part of growing up but it's written like it's wrong or something.
I don't disagree with porn at all, but I don't watch it simply because I just don't really find it nice. It's too fake and staged and over done....
not all of it is like that. Or like the stuff they talk about. This article is basically who don't know about porn writing about porn.
but go on xhamster or whatever, and bring up the top 50 rated or most watched or whatever. Compare the number of videos of two attractive people doing it, to the number of videos of weird shit. Maybe people just watch the weird shit "for a laugh", but there's definitely a preference towards harder and nastier stuff.
you heteronormative PIG
IS MUSIC KILLING PORN?
IF FILE SHARING PORN KILLING MORE PORN SHARING FILE MUSIC SHARING ON TWITTER BLOGS PORN MUSIC PORN PORN PORN?
Paul the octopus has passed away
thanks for reminding me you bastard.
he's the octopus who everyone thought could predict the world cup scores.
I can't rip on anyone for replying in the wrong place any more.
there is actually a valid point here but it's slightly masked in hyperbole, I think it's not a ridiculous idea to see some negative aspects to the porn industry and perhaps question what effects long term immersion in what might be seen as a overblown artificial view, of seuxal relations might have, particularly if those experiences outweigh real life encounters.
Probably wants to steal their magic.
It must be a massive industry, and I'm going to assume they have to pay some of the young women a reasonable amount for the type of shenanigans they get up to. But...it's free. I reckon it's easier to look for porn and NOT pay for it than the other way around. Who pays for porn? Honestly.
Who ever watches an entire porn film, from start to finish? No-one, that's who.
but there's also the fact that wanking for an hour or so isn't much fun. I'm not made of Vaseline, ffs.
I think the interwebs could have something to do with this.
Consider: back in the day you would probably have a porn film, a VHS cassette or somesuch with a plot, characters and so on - 'Debbie Does Dallas' for example.
But I think nowadays, particuarly people who get their porn free probably just get the 3min free streaming clip - just the money shot or whatever. I think that probs the internet has changed the way that porn is consumed but as I don't have any acutal evidence for this I'm probably coming across as a guardian writer myself.
You know, saved the later scenes for next time. Get the most bang for your buck that way.
"I'm a premature ejaculator" post.
I could thinly-veil you with the flick of a wrist.
only you'd have to wait til the end of the film, yeah?
WHEEEEY, LAD! etc
(they are not even real drawves you know, just men kneeling down and banging snow-white) :( 30 minutes of fairytale fantasy claptrap for that disappointing revelation.
I've never watched one but have seen them in Blockbuster so I guess they are soft porn... but who in there right mind would hire out "Indiana Bones and The temple of Womb" or "Planet of The Sexy Apes" or whatever the hell they are called?!
Oh wait, I think one was called "K-Sex" instead of "K-Pax". Good grief.
Play-mate Of The Apes
It had very impressive production values.
Just call them tits.
purely because there was a bloke in it who looked exactly like Gabe Newell
Thank you, year of working at a video store...
for Wildean wordplay like that.
I've not seen it, but I have an image of men kneeling on shoes to create the illusion of shortness
I can't remember what really happens. It's by no means hardcore, but it does seem slightly shocking in parts, mainly because of the incongruous theme.
Maybe 5 years at the most?
I think as an industry it's probably taken quite a hit - but I'm sure it will adapt and find new ways of making money... I think most innovation on the internet is funded by porn though.
There is probably still a lot of money to be made in offline revenue streams too.
and was really happy that they'd now be in my browser history for future masturbation. My life: pathetic.
Most of it is mank and depressing though, I don't know how anyone could say with a straight face that the majority of pornography is even arousing.
so he can only watch it back with you present.
What about on a mobile phone hmmmm?
You want to use an HD video camera, then copy the file across to a hard drive, immediately password protect it, erase the original recording and...I've said too much, haven't I?
A few years ago I was at a party and a mate who I hadn't seen for ages was there. He was telling everyone about his new girlfriend. Didn't take him long to crack out a picture that she'd sent him. She was wearing some sexy lingerie and a tennis skirt and was doing that thing where you bend over and reveal a little bit of cheek. She was smoking. Not sure how she actually took the photo but still...
Anyway - I peered a bit closer and the photo was actually embedded in a text message. A text message which read "IF YOU SHOW THIS TO YOUR MATES I WILL RIP YOUR BALLS OFF".
He'd whipped it out within hours of receiving it. Champion.
It's not even a very good story.
If she'd found out and actually ripped his balls off.
the worst bit is: why are the men always really ugly? to men like to see ugly guys boning hot women? WHY? seeing a hot guy boning an ugly women would be like, urgh.
I, uh, heard
First most porn producers realistically assume most viewers are only interested in the girls; the guy is just a dick. So far less investment is taken in securing good looking guys than good looking girls. Secondly some like to play upon the insecurities of those watching: "Hey, even I'm less flabby and ugly than him. If she's writhing around like a beached trout with him, just imagine what she'd be like with me!" Thirdly some porn producers don't even bother to hire male actors, they just get their mates or themselves in.
There is porn which features good looking guys, but generally they either make a point of that or they're, y'know, gay.
it's the ugmos who have humungous scholngs.
i agreed with a lot of sentiment in the article, from my own experience and others of the 'free internet porn' generation that it affects your sexual attitudes and maybe on a subconscious level to women in general. i'm no puritan and think sex is a great thing yadda yadda, most the commentators on this article seem to leap into one of the two camps - porn is inherently bad or else porn is fine even if it depicts some seriously vile shit.
but i think the worst elements of porn are just a reflection of the state of the wider world and you won't be able to undo them without undoing a lot of the cultural/concrete socio-economic reasons that are at the root of gender relations/discourse.
i'll try to think of some puns now. oh and the guy does seem like a bit of a bellend. i clicked on the site but it is down with traffic haha.
that i have not read the article in question
you will realise that moker has called it 100% accurately.
A thread of mine hasn't reached those heady heights since I complained about two women in my office crying (They've both left now, fyi. From next week, we'll actually have an all-male team).
Probably because it's shit, I know.