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Don't see any point to the 3G version when you can just turn your smart phone into a wi-fi hotspot.
when you can get a snazzy book thing that lets you browse the web in black and white for a fraction of the price (this might not actually work, i'm not entirely sure what the 3G kindle can and cannot do)
I read that browsing the net on B&W eInk screens not intended for general intertrons browsing is not the most enjoyable of experiences. I'd have to give it a go myself to make the call though.
Wouldn't be especially surprised if that was the case. I think i'm somehow being anti-luddite by endorsing the kindle, whilst simultaneously being a bit technophobic admiring its limited capabilities.
Cheers anyway though.
- Browsing on the Kindle will significantly lower its battery
- It's also restricted. You don't get a FULL web via the 3G, just sites they allow (again I think this is the case)
- You get charged by Amazon for certain things over 3G. Since you're not in a set contract they could change all the rules on this whenever they want.
So really while it can work it makes little sense. You can get yourself an on-the-go Wi-Fi hotspot if you want to be anti-smartphone for about the same cost as the £40 for the built in 3G and then you could use that for any device you happened to own with Wi-Fi.
This is a good summary. I'm not really anti-smartphone, it just all seems a bit expensive to me. Although it's a bit galling to see 10 year-olds wandering around with better phones than me.
The only wi-fi device i've got is a DS :( Maybe i should get a kindle?
it's so light and it's so simple. it really is genuinely close to the reading experience, frill-free. Though I hope it can manage interactive book cover art. That would be awesome. That's the biggest loss from the old paperback.
have been carrying a huge fucking hardback around since wednesday. the idea of just sticking a kindle in my bag with all my books in it would be ace.
It does render art in B&W but I guess anything colour is going to lose out.
What is wrong with you people?!
i have to have a lot of textbooks for work, and generally these books are HUGE and a total pain in the arse to try and use whilst also doing computer stuff. cue ipad/kindle/whatever.
But to read a novel on it? That's pretty shameful! (in my opinion, OBVS)
i think you are afraid of change.
If my collection of Paul Jennings books aren't on display on my bookshelf but are instead locked up in some tiny computerbook?
problem solved. customise it with all the f scott fitzgerald and nietzsche and kerouac you want.
that's actually a good idea. customisable hipster wallpaper.
I hope you are 12.
i mean a page versus the screen you'd get on something like an ipad. it's very pleasant to read from without having to rely on a knackered old lamp or whatever.
You need a light to read them in the dark, afaik.
bit slack, that. My experience mostly comes from owning an iPad so not really clued up on the specifics of the Kindle.
Your eyes are better served by getting a separate light of some sort that can be brighter than any backlighting would be.
You can get cases with integrated lights.
I was just reeling in the 'very pleasant to read from without having to rely on a knackered old lamp or whatever' angle.
I can imagine reading a novel on one.
But the tactility of wedging fingers inbetween and flicking between the pages, plus being able to highlight, make notes, and scribble on it makes paper that much more appealing for textbooks.
Trialists at Princeton (the Amazon boss' old uni) and Virginia Uni have tended to agreed with these this thinking.
Shame though, cos textbooks are obviously more of a git than novels to carry around. So the convenience benefit is kinda back to front.
Therefore I do not advocate this product at all.
Good day sir!
You can make notes on a Word doc, but it's not the same bag of onions as jotted notes on a paper page.
But this particular point was centred on the notion of kindles being superior for textbooks. Weight/carrying issues, and the ability to search the text (which isn't really an exclusively kindle thing when it can be done on a PC), eBooks have been found to have their limitations in practical textbook use.
How much is the Book Advisory Board (BAB) paying you WZA?
I'm not clinging on to paper at all, just reining in some of the hype that people seem happy to accept without question (the proprietary lock-in factor is my number one bugbear).
I've acknowledged plenty of kindle positives (I can totally imagine reading an eInk eBook in novel form).
I've also acknowledged out how iPads/tablets are pretty nifty buggers and perhaps a great option for reading magazines/newspapers.
but looking online this may only be possible on the app versions.
i don't find myself making notes in the textbooks i have, which are giant computer programming ones for the most part. i tend to write the notes in the code as i'm going along...everyone's different though, so y'know, all good.
the iPad is the future of book reading. as a book lover, the only thing that stops me buying more books is the fact that I don't have the room. Having your favourite books get mildewed and out-of-shape because you're stacking them against walls out of sheer desperation is depressing.
like i said, once they get interactive covers on the kindle/ipad, it's all over.
i'll miss the tactility of the pages though
or using horses instead of cars?
But the Amazon centric DRM lock-in can get well and truly to fuck.
And an ebook is worth about £2 to me. Don't try and rob me for the full price of producing a paper version for an electronic file that I can't sell on second-hand or do as I please with when I've paid up.
For the time being, it's like the iPod/iTunes nonsense all over again.
I doubt I'll ever pay for a download (very rarely download music either, so it's a personal preference rather than a question of the selling model) but it's quite cool for picking up classics that are out of copyright and I'd never pay for.
Increasingly keen on getting an iPad. May treat myself to one if I rectify my joblessness before my redundancy dosh runs out ...
I don't have my own laptop and don't really need one for anything important or formal, plus have never really owned anything cool or zeitgeisty, so thought it becoming an iPad dickhead might be a nice treat.
Not interested in ever using it outside though, so probably wouldn't bother with a 3G plan.
It was in reply to the 'books are killing the planet' effort.
of not being able to read vast amounts of text off of a screen?
but it's hard to read excessive amounts of text, I can read reviews, stories and the like on paper fine but the moment I begin reading on a screen I tend to skim after about 1 paragraph. It has something to do with the screen refreshing and tiring the eyes
Apart from the massive leap of faith required to go along with your theory, fast growing newly planted trees used for paper, etc consume more CO2 than old ones so it's good to get some tree rotation.
Nowt to do with getting with the times. Everything to do with not believing the hype.
No they didn't.
But now that I'm having to read a load of journal articles, most of which are only really accessible in digital form, I'd kinda like one. I don't have a printer, and I hate reading off a monitor. Plus, I get DiStracted.
Still not gonna buy one, but y'know.
By giving them to other people/charity!
I can't get behind this.
*flounces from thread*
also, the demise of the paper versions will mean no second hand loss of revenues for authors.
that's got to be a good thing.
remind me how that works again?
Sell/gives away to a charity shop/carboot sale/on ebay
None of the money exchanged when the book is bought the second hand goes to the author which it would have done if the book were book new from a shop
Or am i wrong?
that a person buying a book second hand would not have bought it if the only option was to buy it brand new but I can't believe this is true in every single case.
i buy just-out books from amazon (proper, not marketplace) or bookshops.
if i'm in a second-hand bookshop, i'll spunk a lot of money on books that i've heard of and am vaguely curious about
as wonderful as a good second hand bookshop is, authors lose a lot of money through them. maybe not a lot, but given that the average revenue of a successful author is £11,000 - this is what I've heard - they're counting on those royalties.
Only in a fantasy world where physical goods cannot be bought and sold.
Cos here's how I see it:
Someone plans out a house. Someone build a physical manifestation of it. I buy it. I live in it. I sell it second hand when I'm done, at prices set by supply and demand. (But I don't expect to be able to make copies of those house plans, make more houses from them, and sell those on cos that'd be copyright infringement).
Someone designs a car. Someone makes a physical manifestation of it. I buy it. I drive it. I sell it second hand when I'm done, at prices set by supply and demand. (But I don't expect to be able to make copies of that car design, make more cars from it, and sell those on cos that'd be copyright infringement).
Someone drafts a book. Someone prints a physical manifestation of it. I buy it I read it. I sell it second hand when I'm done, at prices set by supply and demand. (But I don't expect to be able to make copies of that book draft, print more copies, and sell those on cos that'd be copyright infringement).
Someone drafts a book. Someone creates a digital manifestation of it. I buy it I read it. I can't sell it on second hand when I'm done cos it's been infiltrated by location specific timebomb. (I don't expect to be able to make copies of that book draft, make more copies, and sell those on, cos that'd be copyright infringement. Just want to sell on what I've bought, at prices set by supply and demand. But by making the product ephemeral, the tangible value of the product is vastly reduced. So selling eBooks at full print prices is a joke. And the very nature of eBooks removes the potential for any resale value, and thus further reduces the scope for initial sale price.).
Are the makers of Briget Jones' Diary & The Full Monty missing out on revenue when someone buys a copy of it from the charity shop for 10p? No. Because the makers have sold a market saturation of their product. Why should I be compelled to pay £15 for a new copy of a film on DVD when there are hundreds of unwanted copies sitting on shelves in charity shops.
(I'm bringing a film into the equation because I freely admit that the second hand prices for CDs and DVDs are probably plummeting due to people ripping their pnysical copy onto a hard drive and then selling the disc on. That's multiple use of one sale. That's copyright infringement. Books don't suffer from this in anything like the same way. We can't just rip a book to our hard drive and sell it on.)
Summary: Second hand sale value is implicit in the sale of a physical product, no matter what weasely t&cs the 'user licence' or whatever stipulates. If we don't think we've got some inherent resale value in mass media, we're less likely to buy the product in the first place.
i don't really get what you mean - builders don't get royalty payments on houses
books simply don't sell in the same quantity as other media products. they just don't. that's why you get £40 textbooks.
They get a cut of the sale price of the house they built (or 'published', if you will).
The architect (as per the author) gets paid so that the builder is allowed to use the architect's plans for creating the physical product. And they retain the copyright. No-one is allowed to keep on building further buildings from those plans without permission.
The new product is sold at a price the market will bear.
The quantity of sales is different (1 or a few houses versus many or LOTS of books). But that's by the by. The transaction chain from artistic creator to physical maker to consumer is essentially the same.
Neither the architect or the builder gets a cut when the house is sold on.
well, not really - you can continue to add value to a property, whereas you can't with a book - but you're profiteering on that property is justifable, because you may have invested into that property.
and there's no direct book-centric analogy (other than maybe getting them signed by the author, or stored in pristine condiction???)
but houses are pretty unique in that respect. and any improvements are above and beyond the original design.
you don't get improvements with cars or other designed & mass manufactured products* so the creative minds behind those artifacts are in the same boat as authors or musicians
*that's not strictly true - you can get kitted & souped up cars and sparkly blinged out iPods, but the additions are done by implemnenting the designs of 'creative' peoples, on top of the base product.
in any case.... none of the creative minds or fabrication people get a commission when the artifact is sold on (be it untouched, simply well-maintained, or tricked out in some way), so the 'improvements' point is fairly moot.
Should a carpenter get a cut of house sale money when his craftsmanship gets sold on, 'second hand'? No. They got paid when they sold a new copy of their book. Once it's not new, it's someone else's physical copy to do with as they wish.
If they've sold X-amount at full value, then that's that. If X is so much that the second hand value diminishes the possibility for selling it new then that's just the way it is. Supply and demand.
You're selling a mass market reproduction of your product using a sophisticated supply chain in order to reach people who you couldn't otherwise reach. If I wanted to be OTT & facetious I'd claim that authours should be happy that you're managing that instead of having to travel around and handwrite out each copy.
creativity above manual labour, which is not to divorce one from the other, but i think they are seen as divorced now
i'm not saying which is better or more important, just that the subsistence chains of authors and builders are very different.
fabricator: builder/manufacturer/publisher/film studio/record company
If you don't want the market to be awash with your used verions of your product that will drag the price of the new product down then you need to restrict supply.
That obviously requires you to raise prices if you want to keep the same revenue from fewer sales.
But publishers get greedy and start discounting and flooding the market with shoddy quality copies that reduces the percieved value. It's a race to the bottom.
The Intangible products of movie hire & on demand can only command £2 or so a pop cos the 'product' is of little to no value. It's pretty much only the 'experience' that's being bought.
Prediction: eBooks will not increase revenues for authors cos they're pretty much worthless as artifacts. Can you re-download them or insure them?
shoddy quality copies -> by this I don't mean actual facsimilies, but poor rip-off versions (pulp fiction is probs an example?)
Personally, I can't afford to buy new books, they're simply too expensive. If second hand charity shops didn't exist, I'd just be going to a library, and then in that case it's not even like I'm helping some blind ethiopian child get drinking water. All manufacturers face the problem of their products being sold on, secondhand. It's a fact of life. Not many people go into writing thinking they'll be well paid, do they?
Not a fan of kindles, my attention span doesn't allow for reading large chunks of text on a screen. I've never really liked the idea of stuff I've paid for existing only as a file on some computer, either. Too risky!
Anyone know if the kindle thing allows you to download pdf research papers? Can you only download books/ onvels from (a) specific affiliated sites? Or can it download and view any pdf based text?
I for one would be very interested if it meant no more stacks of research papers taking up space.
so yeah, you just slam the papers onto the kindle and you're done. Nature Neuroscience in all it's kindle glory
To be fair, I'm kind of selectively tech-sceptic, but I played around with a work colleague's one and apart from being impressed by how they've made the 'ink' or whatever you call it appear (very book-like), wasn't overly sold. The iPad seems slightly more appealing, but I still find it hard to imagine reading anything approaching novel-length in anything but a physical book
is so much better iyam. Much comfier to hold, you dont need to hold it open for ages. You can even prop it if you want and just use your finger to flick. It means i can read lying down in bed. i can even turn the light off. It isnt really that much of a strain on the eyes cos i just turn the brightness down really low. It really is a lot better.
expect a full review
"more books than you could ever read".
And? You can read texts from Project Guttenberg or Wikipedia on virtually any phone, and that's more than you can ever read. A bookshop has more than I could ever read. What are they getting at exactly? It's such a daft boast.
i'd rather judge their products on whether i think they'd be useful/relevant to me. i thought the ipad would be, so i bought one. it has been extremely useful.
smug as they were, i generally thought the iPhone ads were very good.
but adverts tend to get my back up when they come out with spurious spiel that sounds good on the surface, but has no real purpose other than to blind you with 'teh shiny'.
some don't. moderation and all that.
don't use the word faggot, only dood and I can pull that off. you're too lame.
Newspapers, at least. But you can get Android versions of iPads for £100.
Apparently a version of it is gonna be sold by Next (yes, the clothes shop) very soon for the heavily marked up price of £180.
It seems pretty shit, but it's how things are headed so decent versions from proper manufacturers will be along in no time.
So I'm not sure how many advantages a kindle will have over a full colour tablet that can view the proper internet (even if eInk is "like paper" and kindle battery life is mega).
Wonder what Ryu/Bammers have to say about their kindle/iPad.
that's one of it's main selling points actually
Whats its solution for pop up books?
3D pop-up books?
http://www.digitaltrends.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/Nintendo-3DS.jpg (a daft artist's impression picture, but it's supposed to be a pretty cool effect irl)
eltham accused me of exactly the opposite (i.e. being evangelical for paper books)
I know it sounds hard to believe but honestly it's exactly the same