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Tell me about the latest theories.
which technically ceases to exist when in the box because it's out of sight or some shit?
it's just the paradox of whether it's both alive and not alive simutaneously.
'cause opposites attract and y'know...
i'm doing a module on THE PHILOSOPHY OF TIME TRAVEL next semester. can't wait.
If so you're doing a course that's like the ANTI-Stephen Hawking.
then it has already happened (n the future) and they should have come back to the past (now) so we'd already know about it etc
like in that documentary with Jean Claude Van Damme.
you just couldn't tell anyone about it? what about if there was some crazy law of nature that we don't know about that prevented anyone ever communicating the possibility of time travel to the past to those living there?
Or accidentally slept with their own grandmother or something, haven't you seen FACTurama?
maybe, however much they wanted to let it slip, it would just NOT BE POSSIBLE. or... maybe it *would* be "possible", but just would not ever happen. actually, if i'm arguing that, i might as well just say "time travel is possible but would not ever happen". but that would be boring.
Would there be a 'splitting' of the time stream, thus creating a secondary reality where the time traveller has affected a change in some way.
Or would there be a mass retouch of the current (possibly singular and only) timestream? What would prevent more than one time traveller moving back and re-affecting this possibly singular timestream again and again.
Or would it all be fine as whatever has happened has already happened including the tampering by the time traveller or travellers.
Is time fixed or fluid.
it all depends on how you believe the topology of time to be: a single stream, branching, etcetc. also brings in questions of if time is branching in a forwards direction, is it also branching in a backwards direction? i read this article that claimed it was, thought it was a load of bollocks though tbh. until i actually read any more about it i reckon it's probably branching, but less than you'd first reckon upon.
Thinking RILLY RILLY hard about it.
Going on one of those Channel 4 social experiment programs.
Something something tachyons.
where a Scandinavian guy claims he crawled under his sink and ended up meeting his future self in a field. "And I knew people wouldn't believe me so I took a video on my phone." Of him with an older guy with the same tattoo. Clearly, incontrovertible proof.
I think about this concept regularly.
Atomic clocks have been placed on supersonic jets and then compared to those on the ground. The ones on the planes were a little behind those on the ground. Therefore, the planes travelled forward in time.
as commmonly understood. Its not moving forward in time, its travelling quickly so that time passes infinitesimally, its just Special Relativity, which in itself does not lead to time travel as commonly understood - ie jumping forward in time.
and spent a few seconds in it, and then got out and the time on the ground had moved forward by several years, how is result of that different from getting in a delorean, taking it to 88 mph and jumping forward to 2015?
i.e. you wouldn't actually be travelling THROUGH time. I think Goofle is right, in a way... what you're thinking of is a way of getting to the future quicker than waiting around for it, but it's not actually time travel as conventionally conceived.
I think that would be a standard caveat for time travel.
That you wouldn't just be on a one way trip to whenever.
if you were able to alter events throughout time, surely you could never go back to your original starting point? even if you'd altered the future, you'd end up catching up with yourself?
You get in your super fast speed machine, speed around for a week, then return home.
"Surprise its me! I am here from the future!" you proclaim.
"What? What are you talking about?" comes the reply "you went off in your machine a week ago, and now your back"
"Aha!" You retort in triumph: "look at my watch its an hour ahead of yours!! I am in the future !!"
"yeah, whatever dude"
"Surprise its me! I am in the future!" you proclaim.
"Aha!" You retort in triumph: "look at my watch its an hour behind yours!! I am in the future !!"
YOU'RE NOT ACTUALLY IN THE FUTURE ARE YOU.
You can wizz off and do what you want, for as long as you want. While you're away time will continue here exactly as it would if you had not gone away.
You will come back and go "Ta da!!" but we will not turn an eye - nothing will have changed here: if you left 5 mins ago (in my timeline) you will return after 5 mins (in my timeline) If you left 5 years ago (in my timeline) you will return after 5 years, just as if you had gone away on holiday to benidorm. You may have aged enormously during your little Superspin, but NOTHING will be any different for me, or anyone else on Earth. You went away and you came back. You will not have jumped forward (in my and everybody else's time). You may have experienced time differently, but we haven't, its passed just the same as if you just popped next door for 5 mins (years , whatever) and come back.
The faster you go, the slower time travels.
Therefore, if I head out for five minutes (in my timeline) and whizz around for a bit, I might return in five years (in your timeline). I might also, return after you're dead, into what you consider 'the future'.
And I have been talking bollocks all day, being confused by wether time was gained or lost on the superfastplane.
Takes a big man to admit that.
Whatever the outcome of the debate, you’re the champ here.
lightsabres and global hypercolour, while you're 50 years dead.
It's time dilation as the result of being at points of gravitational potential higher than those at sea level, not as the result of travelling at a relativistic speed. The speed of the plane is irrelevant.
"Two scientists, Hafele and Keating, did the most direct test of relativity possible, in 1971 they flew one set of atomic clocks around the world on a commercial jet liner and then compared them to a reference set left behind on the ground. The scientists flew the clocks around the world twice, once east to west and then west to east. (The experiment is complicated by the fact that the clocks on the surface of the earth are moving relative to the distant fixed stars too because of the rotation of the earth. The 24,000 mile long equator of the earth rotates once in 24 hours which allows one to remember the speed of the equator in miles per hour, 24,000 miles in 24 hours or 1000 miles per hour.
The planes flew at an elevation of 10 km (30,000 feet) and at 800 km/hr (500 mph). The plane flying to the east was thus traveling at the speed of the earth's surface plus 500 mph while that flying to the west was flying at the speed of the earths surface minus 500 miles per hour.
The atomic clocks on the planes flying east lost 184 nanoseconds (a nanosecond is 10-9 s) because of their speed of travel relative to the earth surface clocks. They gained 125 nanoseconds due to the gravitational red shift. The planes flying west gained 96 nanoseconds due to their motion and gained 177 nanoseconds due to gravity. The measured effects were within 10% of the predicted effects which was within the 20% error in the experimental technique. (The effect of gravitational redshift has now been confirmed to better than 1%)"
but you're welcome for being alerted to the existence of gravitational time dilation.
but I do know enough to know about the effects of gravity on time.
Sorry, I didn't know.
It's a burden that we, as a family, have learnt how to bear.
On average, atomic clocks in planes will gain time due to the effect of gravitational time dilation.
its all in the mind
Name me one TV show or film that wouldn't be improved by having some form of time travel in it
had it in, still rubbish.
No problems dealing with the paradoxes they create.
'Remember a trashcan'
'Dude, I did steal my Dad's keys'
"I've gone all cross-eyed."
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Excellent Adventure
if it was and you went back in time you couldn't change anything though.
especially compared to how certain other US shows have done in recent years, HELLO HEROES. did you see the last season of that? one storyline involved Hiro travelling back in time *to season 1* and changing things :|
If you went back in time and stopped the Chicago Fire, on your way back to the portal you would knock over a gas lamp and torch the city anyway.
A big elaborate time-travel hoax a few years back.
I remember reading everything I could find about it on the internet and wanting it to be true.
I refuse to believe it isn't.
Kind of creepy too.
something i hate about the idea of time travel in films/books is that you 'could change the past'
NO YOU COULDN'T. If you did anything in the past then it would have already happened so anything that you did would have happened anyway, it is not possible to go back in time and the butterfly effect is a load of bullshit (in my entirely unscientific opinion)
by changing the past you created an alternate timeline that branched off the main time line at an earlier point? like in Deja Vu
because you wouldn't be 'changing' the past, you'd only be doing something that had already happened. you can't change the past. if an alternate timeline was created i don't see how the fact you had gone back in time would make any difference. Would you jump into a different dimension when you went back/forward in time?
i'm confusing myself here, but don't some people say that an alternate timeline is created everytime even a miniscule decision is made?
that orange coaT??
you changed your future even if you didn't change anyone elses. For example if I found out x horse won a race, then I went back in time and placed a bet on that horse and became rich.
Whilst in the original version of the timelines nothing would have appeared to have changed, I'm now living in a timeline where I'm a rich person which couldn't have happened unless I went back in time.
so the fact that you used time travel doesn't make a difference. It's like saying "i decided to go to the shops today so i created a different timeline to the one where i didn't go to the shops' except in your version you traveled in time. If you travel in time it doesn't necessarily create a new and different timeline because you're not 'changing' anything.
So, you're sitting watching the horses, you have use of time travel and you decide to go back in time. At that moment there is another version of you who has already bet on the horse that you know will win. It's all about the point of decision, it's not about time travel, time travel is just a tool.
this is how it works in my head anyway :D
the human brain has an inherent problem in determining the interrelationships between time, space and relative dimensions though
Mine totally gets it. Totally.
it's presuming all decisions made in the present day are a product of the ones made in the past, fair point really, I just think the alternate timeline way is a way to get round that particular conumdrum.
this is what happens in terminator
i agree with you, but i think that alternate dimensions are not necessarily created by time travel if they are indeed created. to 'change the future' you'd have to go back in time, THEN jump into a different multiverse simultaneously. maybe.
when you jump back and changed something then you erase all the future. If you choose to jump forward again your just fast forwarding through a new future youve created
because the moment in the past that you did something has already happened, so the future that you are in is the one you have 'created' already, effectively.
you'd just be coming back to a different present in a different multiverse
i'm not sure. my brain hurts :D
marty returns to tbe bad 80's where his <SPOILERS>
Dad's dead and Biff is his step dad and his mum's got massive hooters.
If you weren't travelling through time then things wouldn't happen, surely?
in the sense that it *is* possible, just somewhat beyond our means. if you went out 10 lightyears at the speed of light, to somewhere and space, and then came back, life on earth would have progressed 20 years, for however long it took you to travel, or something.
theres a really good book about an amazingly realistic (i assume)take on what an actual interstellar war would be.
It is practically possible for me to run 100 metres in 30 secs.
It is imaginatively possible for me to run 100 metres in 10 secs.
maybe one day we can do it.
and you personally cant run it that quick, but maybe SOME DAY. PERHAPS WITH ROBOTS.
@guntrip; no but it sounds all kinds of ossum
but "maybe some day. perhaps with robots" = imaginatively.
CAN DO RIGHT NOW = practically
just sayin. ignore me. I'll go away now.
the third book is a bit similar to that - Halo enlists and is sent to fight a war on a planet with such high gravity that time dilates, so each time they go out on manoeuvres entire weeks/months pass. Eventually they come back from one to find out that the war ended had ended several weeks previously when Earth's economy collapsed, and it has a really awful effect on the soldiers.
There's also an anime series called Gunbuster that deals with the subject. It's properly good, and the end is tears-and-hankies stuff.
One of my favourite 2000AD strips along with Nemesis the Warlock and Zenith.
Zenith would have made an amazing film.
I still kinda wish he'd finished the proposed nine books :'(
Me build time machine now!
Does it involve plywood? I've got a load of plywood in the garage. Could the "outer casing" (hull?) be plywood? Probably needs to be lead or something to block out the gamma rays. Fuck it, I'll just use plywood and give it a coat of hammerite. What were we talking about agaiN?
THEN WHO WAS TIME MACHINE??
zoom off in a very fast transport, return back in about a week and your watch is slightly behind the other watches (the 'moving clocks go slow' observation)
This is not time travel.
I have pondered whether it is the speed that you zoom off at, but I think that it could also be a change in the speed that you make, or change of vector of the speed....i.e. its the force on the moving clock (acceleration/decelleration/centrapedal force on the body when changing direction....also to be taken into account is the differing movements through gravitational fields that the body/clock makes.
Gravity effects and inertia are actively changing for the 'moving' clock compared to the place that it will return to. Gravity Time and Mass can be considered to be different aspects. (Personally I am interested by MY notion that perhaps we are incorrect to associate gravity being 'caused' by mass, it is just as likely that the converse is true that gravity causes mass....or that mass is a manifestation of gravity.....although I am happy with the idea that gravity could be a manifestation of mass....either way time is also part of this bundle........by moving away and travelling at a different speed/moving through different vectors, causes the body to actually change in mass (very small change admitedly) But one can assume that when the clock has returned then the mass has also resumed to its previous .....in which case the change in mass must be accounted for somehow....its changed mass and then back to normal and to the normal (previous location.....(apart from the fact that the earth, earth/moon, solar system, galaxy systems have all moved themselves) the difference is accounted for by the temporal change in the mass/gravity/time triad. Time has not been travelled, but the 'mass/gravity/time' has
Of course this is my own explanation and you may care to view it as just part of a batshit mind
you might be more familiar with space/time..,,,
perhaps that the simplest way for people to regard the 'moving clocks go slow' observation......that the clock has not 'time travelled', it has instead travelled through 'space/time'
Which of course we all do everyday......all of us do a little bit of this travel and all of us change time (everso slightly) in relation to other objects that we might label 'a control' (except that there are no true controls, cos everything is moving through 'space/time')
This difference in space/time for EVERYTHING (even componants of molecules and atoms) is probably the factor that causes quantuum physics to appear so strange and unexplainable.......quantuum events are only weird cos people are assuming unrealistic constants.....Perhaps
I think that the whole concept of electron cloud probability/quantuum stuff n shit best be left to someone who knows better, I know at least one disser knopws about this (cant remember who) perhaps they can make more sense of all this.
General Relativity = Gravity etc - yer 1st post
Special relativity = spacetime etc - yer 2nd post
I should really read up about these things....I dont think Ive really read much about it since about 1982/3, since then I've just thought/pondered about stuff....I kind of reached a read/information overload, I think I could take some more in now.
so im gonna do that this evening
no-one'd be allowed to use it anyway, would they?
C is the speed, the velocity of light
Electrons are moving, change vision in sight
To form a new object of energy mass
But where in our time is the question to ask
Relative movements around and around
Open my eyes with my feet on the ground
Just for one second in the back of my mind
Something just told me that this is spacetime
>Oh aye. Anything else?
Self explanatory planatory information
Is the situation
With mystical rhythmic beats
Taking over and over and over
Moving with the sound
Altering your consciousness, nevertheless
Will gain you access
To a techno tribal positively primal
Shamanic anarchistic archaic revival
>Cheers, Mr C. Cheers.
to move into our islington squat when I left (check they were squathouse trained enough for my squatmates that i was leaving behind)
or the vassopressin (thats what it sounded like) says, they couldnt even roll proper doobies