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Pretty happy my Lib Dm candidate didn't get in though - being disenfranchised means it's not my fault.
I feel strangely subdued. Obviously you vote for a party, then logically you want them to get into power and influencing government policy but, despite the fact they seem to have gotten a pretty strong deal from the Tories relative to their vote share, I still feel like they would be better off out of there. Which is a bit counter-intuitive really.
Early signs are encouraging. Before the election I was dead against the idea of the Lib Dems propping up Cameron, Osborne & co. As time's gone on and it's become clearer that they have managed to get some serious concessions from the Tories I've become encouraged. I'm still not entirely thrilled by the idea, but hope that as time goes on they're able to maintain a moderating influence on Conservative policy. We'll see in 6 months time whether or not they're doing enough for me to vote Lib Dem again.
Osborne as Chancellor and Hague as Foreign Secretary can get to fuck.
unfortunately, there was never any chance of those two not getting their posts. Anyone who thought Cable would be given Chancellor was pissing in the wind. Hopefully he'll be able wield a bit of influence over Osborne though..
The man's politics are repellent. And he's a cunt.
but strangely I've got a huge amount of respect for him. He's stood out for me as the only key man in the key parts of the Conservative party that I always really believe is being completely straight when he's talking. With Cameron/Gove/Osborne and co, I've always felt there's a PR overtone that just doesn't seems to be the case with Hague.
he's just a Yorkshire cunt. Isn't he the MP who trousers the most extra-cash on the sly as well?
Anyway, the bottom line is him in a baseball cap at the Notting Hill carnival.
but I voted Labour and have been a bit bemused by why so many lefties/former Labour supporters went Lib Dem (a party I've never had much love for), so this is pretty much a complete disaster for me.
it might be premature, but my initial feeling is that Labour have come out of this, whether by accident or design, in as good a shape as they could have hoped really. They've just come out of a campaign with every headwind against them and lost by what...8%?
With a change of leader, a cull of the deadwood, and a fragile coalition having to deal with some pretty drastic budget measures, they aren't looking too bad going forward. A LibLab coalition could have put them in the wilderness for a generation if it collapsed. I think they dodged a bullet
The best thing they can do over the next couple of months is regroup and form a united opposition under a strong leader. I would say the odds are on another election before too long. This could well be a massive blessing in disguise for Labour.
I certainly think that Labour were in the weakest position, in terms of public popularity, to survive what would have been years of very unpopular decisions. It's also questionable that they'd have been able to survive another election so soon after this, given how little money they had to camapign for this one, so in that sense it's positive that a solid coalition seems to have been formed with these results.
I'm not going to foppishly wave my hand in the air and decry the impending end of civilisation because a Tory is in number 10, but I'm certainly going to disagree vehemently and be very displeased by many of the things a Conservative government are going to do in the next few years, so I'm a little unhappy with it all.
I don't like conservatism one bit, but when it comes to a choice between wanting your country to fail in order to validate your political views, or having the country thrive, you've got to go with wanting to succeed. So I hope they do well, particularly given the dire straits we're in in a lot of ways. I just don't think they have the strategy to do it without causing a lot of damage to people's standard of living, but I'm willing to at least give them the benefit of the doubt for now.
and since the polls indicated prior to the election that the chances were that no one was going to get a majority,
that people who voted for libdem should also have had an option to indicate which of lab/con they would prefer the libdems to join in the event of a co-alition being necessary.
That would be better
and you have that.
Despite Cameron being PM, the Lib Dems have come out of the deal with a disproportionate amount of policies and influence in government in relation to the number of their MPs elected, and I'd much rather this than a minority Tory government. I'd say it's gone fairly well.
but what about 'in relation to their proportion of actual votes cast for them?
I think you've got to be realistic about these things. The system should be different (IMO), but the way our democracy works is that the key thing is number of seats and thus share of vote in parliament. The Lib Dems were in a weak position.
because as far as I'm concerned the libdems should have ideally been asking for introduction of some proportional representation and then a re-election in a years time.....because that is what the voting figures suggest should happen (using the (not unreasonable) assumption that many people who would have voted libdem, if they though thought their vote would count, didn't because they thought they would then waste their vote and allow something that they feared more to get in)
but really i dont think that they morally have position to argue against this idea (if they preport to support democratic principles)
Because really there is not ideological argument against proportional representation, (please correct me if you are aware of any party that has any ideological objections to it)....the only reasons that lab and con object to it is that this would mean that they would suffer as a result. (i.e. pratical, self interest (selfish) reasons)
is that FPTP (usually) produces a strong majority government, and so prevents the kind of thing we've seen in the last few days where parties negotiate to a common settlement (aka 'horsetrading' or 'backroom deals' between parties).
They've apparently got a referendum on AV, which isn't really a proportional system, although would probably benefit the Lib Dems a little and could be seen as a step towards introducing something proportional - it introduces some of the concepts such as preference voting.
is NOT an Ideological argument, it IS a practical/pragmatic argument
that leads from it is this country *needs* that rather than hung parliaments (and all the stuff mentioned in the second clause of that sentence). Indeed, being pro-majority government is an ideological position in itself.
but my further point would be that one can simultaneously be 'pro-majority gov and pro-PR election process'
If you see these two stances as exclusive then it is probably only because you are focussing on the practiclities of this
is that FPTP is the best system to produce what many see as the desired (ideological) position, majority governments by distorting voting patterns.
If you ideologically believe in 'strong' majority government, it follows that you're *unlikely* to support representative elections - in a similar way to hung parliaments being rare in our current system, you're very unlikely to get a single party majority under most forms of PR. The two simply don't fit together very well.
That is, while pragmatism informs your position, the reason behind it is the underlying ideology.
but that is also the crux of what i am saying, the voting pattern is skewed, this skewing (probably accidentally) is more likely to result in majority gov in this countries conditions at present.....this is a 'compromise' on democracy, which I understand, nothing will be pure, because of peculiarities with other aspects of our 'systems'....but I still maintain that you do not have an ideological argument against pr, merely a practical one that by not having it you are more likely to achieve your ideological one......the ends justify the means etc.....that is, in essence still poractical not ideological...........but that is a bit semanticy, and needs to be discussed over a pint, where i would (no doubt) be able to explain to you a method of having some PR which is just as likely to return a majority government (I will work on this)
I'm in favour of electoral reform. I'm open minded to a sensible and informed debate as to which method is most suitable :)
then for every 7 tory ministers there should be 4 libdem ministers....although of course this should be modified to reflect the fact that some ministerial jobs have more weight than others, plus of course the amount of power being prime minister has cw say 'deputy pm' which I reckon is way more than 7:4 in terms of proportion of influence in favour of the tories.
Plus although people are crowing about Vince Cable being Home secretary, that is still small beer cw chancellor
in fact PR is one of the few things recently that I've felt like I would actually protest for. I think it's a decent result with an reasonable amount of compromise from the Conservatives though, and hopefully further electoral reform will come in time. As others have mentioned, this is a great chance to prove that coalitions can work.
But it's probably for the best. Either the tories fuck up and they get locked out of power for another 13+ years or they actually manage to run the country alright which you can't really complain about.
The concessions that have been made are mildly pleasing anyway and bode well for the future. How strong the coalition actually is remains to be seen.
Hard for me to complain anyway, middle class and working in the private sector.
Bit disappointed that my LibDem vote for Gordon Brown turned out to be a LibDen vote for David Cameron, but glad that Cable and Huhne are in positions to do something about something or other cos they seem alright to me. I'd have done nearly anything not to end up with Cameron and Osborne, though
To sum up - yes and/or no
It's still better than some massive rainbow alliance though, that would have been shit
A chilling vision of your children’s incomprehensible future, Britain.
Although, as a lib dem voter, I'm always unhappy at how things turn out.
not my ideal scenario but at least there will/should be some Lib Dem influence on policy.
It's about compromise sometimes innit?
Seems to me that Clegg's played a fairly weak hand to get more concessions out of the Conservatives than I expected him to be given, which can only be a good thing. Plus coalition (if they make it work) shoots a big hole in the idea that the only way to get 'strong' government is FPTP (an idea that's already been weakened by it producing a hung parliament.
That's tempered with the fact that they'll be 'tainted by association' and if the coalition collapses early (which'll depend on how backbenchers on both sides behave) it'll decimate the party.
Either way it was almost certain to be a Conservative government and from that perspective it's difficult to be too disappointed that a few of their excesses've been tempered by policies I'm in favour of.
has anyone found all the footage that's been played of 1997, when Blair and Brown looked young and it was all very exciting, rather poignant given the way it all gradually and sometimes deflatingly played out? I guess yesterday was actually the final full stop at the end of all that
I think Brown's resignation yesterday was probably the happiest he'd looked since then!
I think history will be much kinder to this outgoing Labour government over the long term than it is right now.
I might follow him round and take polaroids of his surprised face and then put the polaroids of his surprised face in a scrapbook and enjoy watching his face become gradually less surprised and less porcelain-like over the years. I can hardly wait.
Put that egghead:
through the Bliar filter and get:
Suddenly I can no longer stomach going ahead with this project.
His forehead's going to get even bigger?!
I think once the results came in, a Lib-Con coalition was certainly the most democratic outcome possible, so I'm pleased with that, and pleasantly surprised with the amount the Lib Dems 'seem' to have gotten out of the deal. The Lib Dems are in a much stronger position of influence now than they've been for decades, if not ever.
I think the votes cast showed that we wanted a change in government, but that we didn't want to trust Torys with overwhelming power to do what they will. I think this result (in theory anyway) is exactly what the majority of the nation wanted, new government with checks and balances.
Tory's were always going to win, but now the Lib Dems can make them less shit.
So the world is fine by me.
Would'vew liked it to be as Home Sec, but Energy and Climate Change (although sounding slightly lame) could offer up a few opportunities in the longer run.
(didn't vote LD, but did when in England, and would defo do so again if in England)
but I've got a feeling that Clegg has stitched up his own party here. They'll lose shedloads of support back to Labour and they'll become associated with anything that goes wrong and won't be allowed to claim credit for anything that goes right.
I expect their share of the vote to drop to 15-20% at the next election.
Strange, considering how much distaste I have for the Tories on most days. I live in a constituency where the Tory MP received 62% of the vote - my vote was for the Liberal Democrats, in the hope that it would contribute to an overall increase in the vote share that
What I wanted most of all from a new government were a) an elected upper chamber, chosen via proportional representation, and b) a 'Freedom Bill' that would repeal most of Labour's horrible decisions on anti-civil liberties. Both of these things look like they will now happen. I also trust the Liberal Democrats and the Tories on the economy more than I trust Labour.
So now I won't have to worry so much about the state prying into my life, whilst at the same time I can look forward to voting for a party that I really want in the next election and not merely against one I don't like. I was voting for the Lib Dems whilst thinking about the long term, and I think it's worked.
What's weird is that this my first real experience of anything other than a Labour govt. I was 10 when Tony Blair came in - I don't remember Major at all. My only politcal awareness has happened under Labour. I've grown up with them. Them moving out is like throwing away my teddies and leaving the family home...
I would have prefered Osbourne to have been replace with Ken Clarke but overall I think its good.
It depends what concessions the Lib Dems have got from the Tories. I certainly prefer this to the idea of a full Tory government. It should temper some of their excesses and hopefully get some of the best LD policies taken on board.
but it's what I was expecting. Really it's the best I could have hoped for. I was initially very disappointed that the Lib Dems lost seats rather than gaining them, but ultimately they've ended up with the most influence they've had on parliament since the First World War.
The worst case scenario for me would have been Labour getting back in - I reckon they'll be a lot better off taking a break and regrouping under a strong leader.
For some reason, I don't mind the Tories being in. We'll see what they get up to, and despite not really liking the Tories I'm hoping they actually do sort things out rather than ruin them.
I'm happy and hopeful that the coalition will work out though, but still disappointed that Lewisham still ended up with the same old Labour Mayor and hugely Labour council, when really a bit of a change would have been good (cos Labour have been shit at sorting out the area).
So yeah, exciting times, eh?
I put little ticks instead of a cross.
and help them to be considered as a serious choice by more voters in elections to come.
Of course, the left of the Lib Dems will have been quite alienated by this, and if PR is brought in then I'd expect mass defections to the Greens. Similarly you'd see the most virulently anti-EU voters and activists amongst the Tories start to move towards UKIP. The Lib Dems would be left as being the party of individual choice, I imagine (but not too much).
Sucks, painful, but possible brightside.
in that I voted for for the man I thought would be best as local MP and keep Tory one out and it worked..
not sure how this coalition is going to work out but anything is better than Conservative majority really
This feels really weird.
and you replied 'Nick Clegg'?"
*Cameron looks embarassed and admits to Clegg that he actually did say that*
*Clegg pretends to walk off*
yeah they could have been idealists and walked away but then they would be were they have always been with no hope of change but instead they took their one shot and now some of their ideas have a chance. im strangely optimistic, conservative efficiency with a lib dem conscience to keep them in check may be ideal at the moment, hopefully it will work out so people who blame lib dem voters can be told to stfu
1. Lib-lab coalition. The united losers ganging up on the winners, "the unelected government", get slaughtered by media and public. Coalition collapses within a year. the martyred Tories the are only decent and credible party around and win the next time. conclusion: Lib Dems are greedy, selfish bastards who fucked over the country.
2. Lib dems say no. Tories form minority government which does not last. labour and tories blame Lib Dems for putting their own interestest ahead of the country's interests. Lib Dems also prove that PR which would often lead to coalition governments is lunacy as two parties should never work together. conclusion: Lib Dems are greedy, selfish bastards who fucked over the country.