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that the film won't be exactly like the comic though, isn't it? Like they do every fucking time a comic book is adapted for film. Seems a bit shit and typically Guardian to try and claim it's really a race issue.
But really how is it anything but a debate about race? Not that I see anything wrong with it but I can't see how the Guardian are portraying it anyway, they're simply reporting on an interesting news story.
But was good. It's allowed if it's a good call.
Nordic race: not black. It's just silly, innit.
In FACT, Sam L Jackson has been cast as a character who is in the comics white, in several marvel films. And no one gave a shit. This is a common sense issue.
theyre taking the look of the ultimate avengers i think... and that nick fury WAS sam l jackson.
nick fury being black isn't a problem. Fury is the head of a security department, and therefore anyone of any race could achieve that position.
We're talking about a Norse figurehead. COME ON.
I think looking at these gods as being or Nordic race is flawed on a few levels. Gods do not belong to any race for a start.
They adopt the race of those who believe in them.
but to my knowledge, only the Norse worshipped those gods.
I kind of feel that colour blind casting is absolutely fine - the only place it is a problem is if the race of the characters is an inherent issue in the drama, and to have an actor of a different ethnicity playing the role would just cause confusion for the audience.
So yeah, Idris Elba for Thor sounds quite cool.
there werent many black dudes in scandinavia in Olden Times, were there?
but yes Idris rules and i bet he'll own this film.
The context will make it so abundantly clear who the character is, it therefore doesn't matter the actor is black.
If you can suspend your disbelief for everything else, why not also ingore his skin colour?
Also, they made Kingpin black in Daredevil and I don't remember many complaints. Is it cos he was a bad guy?
But yeah, I can't see anything wrong with a black or white guy playing Jesus - it's like Adrian Lester playing Hamlet, you don't see a black actor playing Hamlet, you just see an actor doing an interpretation of a character.
but Nick Fury is played by Sam L in numerous films, and is the good guy's good guy, and the nerds didnt care.
This is just about common sense.
for throwaway, cover-all, smug statements, eh?
But that's kind of a reflection his nature, rather than an ethnicity.
We've already had Ghandi played by a half-Indian English guy so I think we can say there's a precedent.
who has always been a massive blonde white guy
in complaining about someone messing with their precious comic book shocker
read the post below.
a white Malcolm X, and a Chinese Robin Hood.
I'm with (and am one of) the nerds on this. Norse God. Wouldn't be black. End of.
Multi-level casting? Come on.
i suppose it would make a film about a mythical magical being a bit unrealistic
But Robin Hood is a fictional character based on some stories. And it would make zero sense in terms of a historical fiction setting to make him chinese. As above, so below.
Sneering about it doesn't make that any less true.
is somewhat at odds with its opening line
I wouldn't want to see russell crowe play the hero in Roots, because it's out of context.
Babe, pig in the city, played by goat, OUT OF CONTEXT.
ANYONE NOT LOOKING NORDIC PLAYING NORSE GOD. OUT. OF. CONTEXT.
I'm not sure where this fits into the debate: I'm just throwing it out there.
I mean, it's really down to whether it's a good film.
If you're doing an accurate biopic then I think you try to get someone to be like the person in question. Otherwise why shouldn't anything go?
In terms of skin colour? Height? Hair colour? Size of hands? Would you prefer to have white actors blacking up for roles? Would you say that Adrian Lester can play Othello, but not Hamlet?
If there was a new play where a black character was recieving subtle abuse, but was played by a white actor which therefore stopped the audience following what was happening, I would think that's ridiculous.
But you know who Hamlet is, you what he does, you know what he says, you know he's the emo prince of Denmark. So a black actor can portray him just as well as Mel Gibson. Same goes for Thor.
But given the CONTEXT IN WHICH THE STORY IS SET, what are the odds of Mr Darcy being a wealthy Japanese or Jamaican lord? They're non existent - the country was too bigoted/racist/classist to even entertain that happening.
So I wouldn't want to see Chow Yun Fat playing Mr Darcy because it makes it REALLY FUCKING STUPID.
the context in which Mr. Darcy exists is, although fictional, an entirely realistic one.
Papa Shango in Live and Let Die played by a white guy.
A representation of a Voodoo god. Played by Edward Norton.
That sounds really good.
and wouldn't have an issue with Norton playing a Voodoo god for the same reason I have no issue with a Norse god being played by a black man.
There are some roles where the racial look of an actor is imperative. I don't think a role for a being which never really existed and so has never been seen is one of them.
Russel Crowe playing Atilla the Hun
Are you guys trying to destroy cinema one step at a time?
I never thought I'd actually say this but:
IT'S PC GONE MAD.
especially classics, fucking with character types, rips out the heart of stories. Everyone's being a shit about this because it's comics related, but the characters in books that I love are defined and created by so many, many things. A character's identity when an author has crafted them relates to their upbringing, their peers, their surroundings and dwellings, their race and the way that that person is seen/treated according to prejudcies for/agains their race and a huge number of other factors.
It's something the author has done deliberately. So actually I don't mean destroying cinema at all. It's destroying literature, and in the case of Caeser, it's changing history to champion equal rights.
It's utterly dumbfounding. Caeser thought they way he did not just because of childhood and relationships with other people, but also because of his standing in what he saw to be a superior people.
And so on.
Surely you can at least understand where this is coming from, if not agree with it.
a film adaptation of any form of literature is, it has no impact upon the source material. At all.
unless you're parodying it.
it needs to tell the entire story.
If it's picking bits out, that's a different matter.
But I don't want to see a white guy playing Moses, because it makes no shitting sense.
because I think that's the dividing line. As you say, it doesn't matter to you so much, and I imagine a huge amount of people feel the same. I'm a history and literature nerd as much as a comics one, so I guess that's why it gets to me.
maybe a bit strawman, but then again I specifically said 'history nerd' so you've got me there.
In the above context, i would completely disagree with excluding anyone from the fun.
My brain just says to me: if Caesar had been black, he wouldn't have been allowed to be Emporer, because the Roman's wouldn't have had that.
So I have to watch a whole film with one massive, odd conceit that's otherwise historically accurate. It would drive me insane.
I'd watch Chow Yun Fat as anything though. My opinion has no relevance here.
This is exactly my point - the context is so famous, anyone could portray Darcy and you'd still know who he was. It just wouldn't be an issue.
I think, if a character is defined in some way by their race (Othello, Malcolm X) then casting is an issue. If not (Darcy, Hamlet, Thor), then it should be colourblind.
should at least stay true to that text in terms of casting. If a character in a book is black, why on earth *wouldn't* you cast that character as black in a film. If they're white, they're white. I mean. They're not retelling a general story here, they're retelling an already written one.
was a ginger Irishman in Stphen King's original short story. He's even called Red, because he's GINGER.
I don't think anyone complained much about that.
STAY AWAY FROM FILM WRITING.
PRIDE AND BLACKJUDICE
PRIDE AND PREDUBLACK
BLACK AND BLACKJUBLACK
I have no idea what I'm doing in this thread.
Don't care anymore. I can't wait for the all chinese casting of Little Women set in England.
You're just fucking with the story for no good reason you maniac!
you massively got me. Anger is making me super-innacurate, in spelling and evrything else!
that's exactly my point! neither of those things are in any way accurate, and that's why i don't want to see it!
I agree, but not for any of the reasons we've discussed.
I'm still not sure how you disagree with my last point, which DanielKelly expressed more eloquently. There's a whole host of other issues, like the number of opportunities for black actors, but I might leave it for now...
and then made a film out of that, I'd concede.
But a story in context is a STORY IN CONTEXT.
well that last point is an interesting one in itself. Because the second you go down that road I'll listen - it's a better argument for equality in role casting.
But if you DO go down that road, you're saying: loads of acclaimed works of fiction only feature white guys, and that's unfair. And that's when the argument gets really, really silly.
Would it be fair for the RSC to only hire black actors to play Othello or servants?
I think Elba playing Thor is a fine decision, and the more it happens, the less race will ever be an issue. There will always be a need to represent race issues in drama, where you will need specifically ethnic actors, and that's fine too.
My brain hurts too much to discuss this much longer.
but I guess this
is what I mean more than anything. I care a great deal about character creation in any form of literature, and it smacks of disrespect to an author to change certain character traits.
First xylopwn invokes common sense, then Bamnan comes on to agree with him.
I'd give it up and concede defeat now.
Either argue on his intellectual level or piss off.
I still play with cardboard boxes from time to time
i was goaded into it by insane idiocy.
but then made blue? FUUUUUUCK
Has anyone ever met one?
he'll sort this shit out.
No one seems bothered about Jake Glykenall playing a Persian Prince. The reason being that its set in a fictional world, its not a comment on modern day Iran.
If we were Norse and this were a 10th century film being made be a Norse Mike Leigh then maybe there would be some sort of valid point.
Either way it'll be a terrible film.
so it avoids the issue of context.
b) that's not the reason you couldn't play him.
He's playing a God who *doesn't exist anyway* And even if he did, why would he not be black? Could they not have just got it wrong in thinking he was white?
Men play women and vice versa. Alec Guiness plays 8 people. You just suspend your disbelief. It's not like they're blacking up Owen Wilson or something. Although...
If you're going down this disbelieving of the unrealistic, being distracted by the way someone looks road, I have a pretty major problem with just about every film ever made. Namely that we don't live in a world where everyone is hyper-attractive and thin.
you should have been posting this half an hour ago, and you would have cleaned up.
Yeah, you hate racists, but so do lots of other people. These are shittest threads as there's simply no discussion to be had. No one is going to come on here and in all seriousness say "yeah, I agree with your housemate, them Chinks are right mongs".
So all you've done is highlight that racists are dickheads, and that you're ruddy great chap because you've posted on a forum about how you don't like it. Well done, you win.
What response were actually hoping to get?!
Classic CG response where he tries REALLY REALLY REALLY hard to tell us that we're try-hards.
I think you've been done in by a troll there.
The response he wanted was probably the one you just wrote :-s He's a bugger like that.
I doubt he's even thought it through that much. If he has, that's pretty sad and he should get a life.
but he just waits until he's taken in the general opinions on a thread like this, and then says whatever he thinks will enrage the biggest number of people in a couple of sentences. And then he wanders off to another thread. The scamp.
And yes, I bet he'll be somewhere with a lot of vintage champagne, the bastard.
and my birthday party lol.