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So, who's going to replace Benitez?
personally i'd give him till saturday when they play stoke, they lose that game, i eally honestly can't seem him being around liverpool anymore as manager. At this point the Europa League is nothing more than a novelty trophy for them. A ultimately insignificant bright spot in a season full of blemishes.
Ultimately for all the alleged financial problems and boardroom strife he's used transfer money poorly, failed to strengthen the team where it needs strengthening and taken several thousand backward steps since last season. Were it not for the 2005 Champions League win his card would have been marked a while back, which I think just highlights the irrational emphasis placed on the Champions League as a test of a manager's ability - when it comes down to it it's a cup competition and, as with all cup competitions, luck plays a huge part. One bad performance or one tough fixture when a few key players are missing and it's over and - no matter how good a manager you are - you can't entirely eliminate the risk of either of those occurring.
is that he's done nothing but moan about how shit the squad he inherited was.
And after that they had nothing
Not that they ever, EVER boo.
a) I just don't like Liverpool. Never have, never will.
b) I've always quite liked Reading.
c) Ryan Bertrand, own goal he could do nothing about otherwise, looked great, again.
d) Cup romance, etc.
e) I couldn't afford to put even a quid on Reading to win (as I thought they would) when I saw odds of 14-1 yesterday, but they managed to win in a way that wouldn't have won me any money anyway, so best of both worlds.
f) Rafa's post-match 'interview'.
g) That Aviva advert being shown just before Newcastle-Plymouth highlights.
h) Liverpool fans booing. That's right, wrightylew, BOOING.
I don't see Rafa losing his job before the summer, if at all, and I wouldn't put putting together a decent run and climbing up the table beyond them either. Still funny though.
But for some reason i feel as if rafa's time at Liverpool is very, very short. But that's just me.
btw, if clive tyldesley did the commentary for ITV last night (didn't watch the game), was he in fact losing his shit at the final whistle or not? hopefully he did. can't stand that bastard.
6 wins out of the last 21 games in all competitions is certainly way below par
If he makes it until the summer it will only be for one (or both) of two reasons
1) Financially prohibitive to sack him
2) No immediate candidate to take over
and both of these factors could actually get more acute in the intervening time
His finish was less great.
Lucas, Ngog and Babel in particular. I honestly think they'd struggle to get into any other top 10 team at the minute - extend that to any other club full stop. And poor Aquilaini - how he must regret moving from hero status in lovely Rome, to bench-warmer in rubbish Liverpool.
MacAnuff looks the part.
ACN news - how rubbish is the commentary???? It's delayed as well, menaing they get excited about 3 seconds after the event, which is just infuriating.
MacAnuff was at West Ham back when they were in the Championship and he was rubbish.
one good game in twenty, usually when it's on TV.
consecutively and won several trophies....No comparison between the two, seriously!
- several trophies = 1 League Cup in 1990
- Forest only ever finished 3rd in the 1980s
It was mainly a reference to their inconsistency - occasionally looking like a world beater, mainly pretty average.
And the Simod Cup the same year.
I really wasn't expecting a Franz Carr related argument when I woke up this morning.
though others around him may have made him seem better by comparison.
which considering he's been treated like a mong, is impressive in itself. The others i mentioned just looked incapable. See also, Carragher, but at least he used to be good.
Liverpool are knackered, but I can still see Rafa clinging on to the end of the season.
I'm surprised Newcastle did so well, obviously we were going to win, but we appear to have fair battered them.
long old poke innit.
Torres felt a 'twinge', having a scan today.
Benitez thought the game was won and took them both off to ensure they're as right as they can be for the big Battle For Seventh Place game with Stoke on Saturday. Priorities.
as he was crippled by the sudden realisation that his awful decisions have completely ruined his career.
Ngog ba duba dop
Is chod, ba duba dop
but i also thought we'd play more than one kid in our starting 11.
I still maintain we don't need to worry about the cup
but i've drawn up a shortlist of candidates for Hicks & Gillett to consider:
Sir Clive Woodward
Sven Goran Ericsson
Hughes for Liverpool manager?
I've now lost 8/8 of my ACoN bets. I shall inform you of which way I'll be going on today's games, and if you want to make money I'd advise you to do the opposite. Or bet on a lame draw.
obviously there must be some truth in this or they wouldn't be allowed to print it
if it weren't for the fact that they are currently and recently the most successful club in English football and therefore their demise or crash would send shockwaves throughout the entire sport
then again, the seedier element of the ManU-Liverpool rivalry are not above using Hillsborough & Munich to prod each other with so y'know... s'all relative innit
but anyway, press speculation is all it is right now
every club has idiots who are fans, and ive never heard any hillsborough chants (and very really munich ones) recently
isnt really relative to some idiots laughing about people dying.
and there are plenty of clubs ready to take their place should they slip off the map as it were. Leeds used to be a massive club, yet it happened to them, and they're slowly rebuilding. There are clubs who are looking after their finances and ensuring longterm viability as a business, without having to sell everyone, why can't United do the same? If they do crash and burn, the sport will be fine, they can't be at the top forever.
it would be the owners putting huge levels of debt on the club.
It's still their own doing. The owners are part of the club. It's not like it's been imposed upon the club by some 3rd party influence...
The Glaziers bought all the shares and thus took over the club. They came from outside the club. It's a risk you take when you float on the stock market, but the demise has come about due to a bunch of American businessmen who have no historic link to the club.
Exactly. The Glaziers are not an outside party, they are part of the club, therefore if the club's demise (if that's what it is) is happeneing, it's self-inflicted.
Except for that ultimately the club can't finance it's debts.
United were the richest most successful club in the world right up to the point at which the Glaziers borrowed money to buy it then saddled the club itself with the burden of that debt - meaning that Manchester United essentially bought itself. This should really be illegal - and is in the US. This situation is nothing to do with overspending or the the club being poorly run, it's simply the crippling burden of debt that was heaped directly onto a previously healthy business.
And to be fair, the club has been poorly run seemingly since the Glazier's acquisition. Burdening you asset with unmanageable debts is poor business management surely?
not a result of the running of the club. Man U didn't run up this debt, it was transferred onto it. However, I feel we're getting into semantics here, so take your point that putting all that debt onto the club was probably not a great business decision.
United may charter a ship to the moon. They may not though.
Either way, it's not good news and it certainly puts a damper on laughing at Liverpool.
and along trundle two bigger clubs who appear to be in (relatively) bigger shit?
"Man Utd to tour moon in pre season to tap new market"
and it's pretty blunt about them - all 14 pages worth.
- Dependent on performance and popularity of the first team
- European Competitions cannot be relied upon as a source of income
- Broadcast rights are outside of their control and may reduce in later agreements
- Dependent on ability to attract/retain key players and staff (i.e. when Sir Alex leaves, are top players as likely to join)
- Wage/transfer inflation could adversely affect them (the 'Man City/Chelsea' factor)
- Current weakened economies are a risk (unsold corporate stuff, less merchandising etc).
- Sponsorship deals may not be able to be renewed at the same values
- Dependent on ability to maintain matchday income from supporters
- Increasing competition from other football clubs
- UEFA's forthcoming financial rules are likely to limit their ability to retain/acquire players.
- Risk of injuries not being covered entirely by insurance (especially where a player is playing in an international and that nation doesn't insure players).
And so on. It's frightening stuff.
Pages 14-28 of this - http://i.dailymail.co.uk/pdf/ManUtdProspectus.pdf
the man just watched one of his friends die while being, ambushed and machine gunned by militant seperatists for fucks sake.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/jan/13/emmanuel-adebayor-ill-terror-togo (second last paragraph)
there's stupid and there's stupid
to expect some journalists to possibly think before asking a question
I was watching the news for the first time in ages on ITV last night and was stunned by how ferocious it was.
The interview with Rafa before it was just evil; I don't like the guy but it was essentially a list of things he'd fucked up on. And then the news played out like a soap opera - Haiti update seemed liek a trailer for '2012' - "The skies? Blackened. The city? Devoid of life. The future? Hopeless." And then there was some news coverage of the snow which essentially amounted to a slideshow of photos like the Tony Hart Gallery.
that even Morris and Iannucci couldn't quite envisage
"They should have been counting the days to Christmas in Ipswich. Instead they're counting the bodies of dead prostitutes"
hearing him almost apologising/making excuses for why he wore an arsenal top makes me feel a little sick. These are football teams, not nations at war!
We know the logistics of selling tickets and arranging football matches means a little forward planning is required, but the bods at the Liverpool ticket office might have wanted to wait just a little longer before sending out the following e-mail on Wednesday afternoon.
'FA Cup - Liverpool v Burnley (4th Round)
'Saturday 23rd January 2010. Kick Off: 12.45pm
'The Ticket Office will begin taking payments for the above game from Thursday 14th January.'
We wonder how sales are going...
Lovenkrands hat-trick was the 'perfect' three - left, right and head - and it would appear that he's remembered how to run again, who needs to be paying over the odds for Beckford?
It's the classic situation of a manager stagnating and running out of ideas. Call for Jose, but he's waiting for United, isn't he?
Liverpool are beneath him, both professionally and as human beings.
He won the league with an infinite transfer budget. Brilliant.
We don't need a foreign manager with an ego who's more interested in his own achievements than those of the club he's managing. Mourinho has spent all his time in Italy telling the press how much he can't wait to return to English football.
His only loyalty is to himself and he's not interested in being part of any history or tradition. That's why he was perfect for Chelsea.
He's interested in making history, not harking back to it.
As I said, he doesn't have any loyalty.
I think it's what sets you apart from the rest of the top 4.
United have Fergie. Obviously he loves them and would never manage anyone else. Similar with Wenger. He's become synonymous with the club. Rafa's not been there for half as long as those two, but he's turned down repeated offers from Real Madrid because of his love for us. Settled for a smaller wage, tiny budgets in comparison. Because he wants to restore us to our former glories.
I can't even remember how many managers you've had since you bought your success. I'm not denying you've done well. Every one of them's been a great manager. It's just that none of them give a toss about the club.
Jose still loves Chelsea. Guus still loves Chelsea. Carlo loves Chelsea. Grant and Ranieri, who'd have every reason to hate Chelsea, still speak very highly of us. Fuck knows what Scolari thinks, he's mad.
What currently sets us apart from the top 4 is that we're top.
It won't happen. The only way I could see it is if we finished 6th or 7th or 8th. That's unlikely. You still can't get odds on us to finish in the top 4.
As for his job security, he's got repeated public backing from Purslow. The yanks probably want rid but they can blow themselves. They don't have much say in club affairs now everyone's realised how much debt they've bestowed on us.
that it's their prominence that has led Manchester United and Liverpool to be fucked over by opportunistic money-hungry cunt-heads from across the ocean. Obviously some people delight in it, fair dos, but I'd rather have bragging rights as a result of a game played rather than a club going into administration.
In hindsight, they were primed to be raped and any of us could have done it. All we needed was to be lent the money that then goes directly back on the club accounts as it's own debt. Lovely. Still, I'm surprised that the Government has stood by as much as it has. When all the top wage earners move to spain they'll notice a pretty big hole in tax revenues and bemoan the move of talent abroad.
to be primarily a number of loss-making fiefdoms.
The reason United and Liverpool have attracted these horrible Americans is their rich histories. It's ironic that they might play some part in our (financial) demise. But it's also that history that keeps us sustainable. We receive so much worldwide income because of foreigners buying into the brand and according to Deloitte, that makes us safer in the long term. Unlike someone like City or Chelsea for example, who run the risk of financial strife when their owners get bored and piss off.
I'm just going off Deloitte's report. Apologies if I made any huge mistakes.
net result is that Chelsea are virtually debt free and well on the way to breaking even on a season-by-season basis.
Chelsea, at the current rate, will make losses for the next two or three years and then turn a profit. Abramovich has converted all of the club's £700m debt to him into equity; we don't owe anyone a penny and Abramovich could no longer walk away from the club. He could try and sell it obviously, but the threat of him getting bored, wandering off and demanding his money back is long gone.
Similarly, City's creditors converted half of their debt into equity and so own half of the club out-right. They couldn't walk away even if they wanted to.
To be honest, Chelsea and Ciy are on the most stable financial footing in the PL. Only Spurs and Arsenal can really compare, to smaller scales. It amuses me that Arsenal fans seem to favour Kroenke's buy-out to Usmanov's when you consider how well American corporate ownership has gone compared to Russian private ownership...
There are far easier ways to do that. Chelsea will be in debt to the tune of £50-100 million at least before they can start chipping away at that. I can't see how Chelsea are going to be able to 1) sustain a title challenege and 2) cut costs/ take in more over the next two to three years. Why do you think Chelsea will soon be turning a profit?
Of which around £13m went to Scholari and associates. They've now completed capital spending on things like their training facilities as well, so the shortfall's probably not much more than about £20m - only around 10% of their turnover.
to replace aging players
but that's set to come down if - as they're going to have to - they start replacing the older generation with a new lot. In theory, they've reached the point where the youth team's supposed to start producing and if I were a Chelsea fan, I'd hope the scouting network's developed to the stage where they can find a few similar bargains to Wenger at Arsenal by now.
I wouldn't have thought they'd break even in the next couple of years, but they're certainly moving the right direction and thinking more about financial implications rather than just throwing money at things (see the reluctance to just give Joe Cole whatever it is he's asking for). They've also got the assets to take on debt for the mid-term... they'd have struggled to get all £700m or so covered by the banks, but in the mid term the financial markets would happily lend to them the kind of figures they'd need while they move towards what they claim they are. Even if the worst were to happen and Abramovich pulled out tomorrow, they'd be able to get loans and service their debts while reducing costs.
Of course, it's possible that their claims about gunning for financial respectability are just bluster :)
Have you looked at Liverpool or Man United's balance sheets lately? There's nothing sustainable about being unable to service your interest payments.
I'd agree it's unlikely you'll finish lower than that but I think it's different to past years. When Arsenal or Liverpool have been short of the top 4 at Christmas in the past everyone's known deep down they have the strength in depth and Aston Villa/Everton/Spurs/delete as appliable dont so ultimately they'll falter by the end of the season.
I still reckon Villa will falter a bit but Spurs have got a stronger squad than before and Man City have the strengh-in-depth that I reckon they'll improve rather than fade as the seaosn goes on. I don't reckon Liverpool are going to close the gap on the top 4 and reckon you might even lose out tussling it out with Spurs for 5th place.
how many injuries we have at the moment. I'd agree that our current starting XI would struggle to finish in the top 6.
But I just can't see a team including Reina, Johnson, Mascherano, Aquilani, Gerrard, Rodriguez and Torres not pulling their fingers out and start playing football again.
You're already 7 and 4 points behind Man City and Spurs (I think) and, for the time-being at least, the gap looks like growing. I can see Liverpool getting better in a few weeks time and wouldn't be surprised in the least if from mid-February to mid-May they picked up more points than Spurs and perhaps Man City too. But I'm not convinced they'll pick up enough to close whatever gap has opened up by then.
I take everything I said about us finishing in the top 4 back.
aqua, torres and gerrard were fit, and johnson/masc were only injured two pl games ago innit?
Modric, King, Woodgate and Gomes for large chunks of the season. I wouldn't count on getting players back helping you that much.
Betwin and Bet365 are going as long as 2/1 on it, while no-one's giving odds shorter than 11/8. Chelsea, United, Arsenal and City are favourites for the top 4 spots across the board at the moment.
Torres - 6 weeks, knee op
Gerrard - 2 weeks, hammy strain
Benayoun - 3/4 weeks, fractured rib
"We're going to play you up front on your own for the next few weeks, that okay?"
Spurs and Arsenal coming up with a trip to Stoke in there as well
Liverpool are well and truly fucked. right.
although my club is in faar dire straits i'm afraid compared to not having a few star players out for a prolonged period of time. If the reports are right, and the debt is too much for United to bear, then we might have to sell Rooney which absolutely blows my mind.
I'd be very surprised if it came to us having to sell our best player.
I can't see Man Utd selling to Man City or Chelsea and neither can I see Rooney going. I can't see him going for much less than £60 million either so I can't see anyone else other than Real Madrid being in the race.
At the same time I'm far from convinced it'll happen.
How do people like the Glazers for a start be allowed to carry on with debts of £200,000,000 in the first place.
Secondly, how are people like the Glazers allowed to carry on and buy a football club, to transfer all this debt onto them?
Thirdly, how are people like the Glazers allowed to then pay themselves several million quid out of the club and ensure the interest repayments alone will likely cripple the club forever more?
I don't get finance. But even I back then, alongside a lot of Man U fans in all fairness, saw that as a bad move. Isn't there some watchdog that should be around to say 'Wait a sec...'
I'd advise you to lump the mortgage on Algeria now.
I'm fucking brilliant at this.
Him and Mandaric together...
As a slightly plastic Spurs fan I'd rather he didn't go down like, but, like many, I wouldn't shed many tears if this nonsense cost him a few quid...
Gerrard being linked with a move away from Liverpool!? SURELY NOT!
The BBC are adding another programme to their Football League coverage from next week until the end of the season, to complement their Saturday night Football League Show, therefore giving us a second chance to catch Southend's goals.
They are broadcasting a regional football show every Monday night, something they promised to do when they won the rights, and taking us back to those good old days of Soccer Night on itv, which disappeared almost two years ago now.
The programme is called Late Kick Off and starts next Monday, 18 January, at 11.35pm on BBC One.
how about that BBC? Huh?
Is that some kind of sick joke?
Remember the pre-Motd2 days? Having to wait until the following week's Football Focus to see the goals from Sunday.
Jim Jeffries FINALLY leaves Kilmarnock :D
Jimmy Calderwood is brought in til May :D
...giving the BBC a chance to make this: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/scotland/8459307.stm :D
we might not be getting relegated after all :D
and we might even have an investor! Investing!
sorensen really is going isn't he?
Sorensen is out of commission at the moment and they don't have suitable back up
what odds can I get for a Villa City final?
And do they still have away goals counting after 120 minutes? Seems so daft
after 5 games, bit short even for a QPR manager.