Gordon Brown spelling this soldiers name wrong in a letter
WHY is this headline news?
WHY WHY WHY
WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY
the PRIME MINISTER wrote YOU a letter. not even TYPED. by a secretary and just signed. HE WROTE IT HIMSELF.
get over yourself.
that's my unfeeling not giving a shit thought for the day.
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He also can't fucking see and uses a big pen to write
Which itself caused half of the mistakes. Why does everything this poor sod does creat such outrage?
to be fair
it doesn't take two minutes to check this shit over, does it? it's just sloppy, and that sends a bad message. if he's sloppy when writing sensitive letters to dead soldiers' mums, what else is he sloppy about?
i really think that's a bit of an overreaction...
yeah maybe it should have been checked over but... come on.
yeah, it's an overreaction
and the papers are using it as a stick to beat him with. But, it should have been done properly in the first place to avoid this. it's like he's inviting criticism!
and maybe he shouldn't be writing letters: I think it's an excellent idea, and shows that GB has a heart. just get someone to check it over first!
I dunno, maybe it's because i work in publishing and am therefore automatically a SPAG nazi.
i don't even see where he misspelt anything to be honest.
it just looks like he has very poor penmanship. and to be honest with you, i'd like to think that the prime minister has things to do other than write letters.
The man CANNOT see
He probably did read it over and thought it looked alright - if you can't see an 'm' probably looks very like an 'n'. He has no sight in one eye and very poor sight in the other.
I agree it looks bad but this fact is obviously so trifling that moral outrage is allowed to usurp it. It's not sloppy at all. Try and write with one eye half open, not very easy.
the man denies he has a sight problem with his 'good' eye
and the last time I checked he does employ a few people who could check it for him.
I don't think he does
He says it doesn't affect his work but he has a retina problem. This is definitely evidence that it does affect him - nothing else.
It's not evidence of incompetence or anything like that.
To be honest mate, your final argument is pretty ridiculous. Ministers, not least the Prime Minister, get hundreds of requests for this type of thing in their box every day and the fact that he writes them himself, probably in the middle of the night, is the marker of a good man. What would be more likely is a 'suit' drafting it and him signing it - there wouldn't be any mistakes but the fact he sat and wrote it himself is surely better than that? I certainly think so.
ahem...
"He says it doesn't affect his work but he has a retina problem. This is definitely evidence that it does affect him - nothing else." - Ok, what i should of said is that he denies that it affects his work - which as you have pointed out, it clearly does.
"get hundreds of requests for this type of thing in their box every day" - He doesn't get hundreds of requests everyday to write letters to dead soldiers mothers.
"he writes them himself, probably in the middle of the night," How do you know that he 'probably' wrote it in the middle of the night? Sounds ridiculous.
Okay
So you make a point of me agreeing with you. To what end?
True. My choice of words was clumsy here but the man 'runs' the country - how many things do you think he is asked to do every day? Hundreds. Hundreds and hundreds. That he takes time to do this personally is, to me at least, testament to his feelings over Afghanistan.
The man is a notorious workaholic who has 4 hours sleep a night. As noted, he runs the country, he has hundreds of different things to think about and do every day. Ergo, he probably does little personal bits like this overnight - that's the general etiquette.
I think you're missing my point though - I'm not full bloodedly sticking up for the man, he's made a bit of a boob and he is stubborn in not admitting where he needs help but here he's shown a human side which people say he doesn't have and has been slain for having a fucking disability and displaying a little fallibility.
Anyone who continues bun throwing and righteous indignation without checking their ire in light of actual facts is a waste of air. Yes, I am calling you a waste of air.
hmmm...
The office of the prime minster does get asked to do hundreds and hundreds tasks, however he does have aides who filter down the list of jobs he has to do personally – therefore letting him do his job. Surely you must admit that writing a letter to the mother of a dead soldier is pretty important and worth double checking before you seal that envelope, if he can’t see properly to tell the difference between an ‘m’ and an ‘n’ (which he had just written) then he really should get one of his aides in his office to double check.
I have a difficult surname, ergo I often get my name mis-spelt, which is ok in a general mailout – but if the prime minister was writing on such a personal nature I would like him to get it right.
Despite the fact that you say he is a ‘notorious workaholic’ there is no evidence to suggest that he wrote this letter in the middle of the night – or that he does ‘little personal bits’ overnight, it’s just your assumption.
Contrary to one of your other assumptions (ie not actual facts) I am not full of righteous indignation or ire, and as type this no air has been wasted – but thanks for insinuating that my exsistence up until this point has been a complete waste of time. Your argument would have been stronger without the pebble-dashing of assumptions and uncalled for personal insult at the end, I expected more from you.
so...
get someone else to check it before putting it in the envelope. or, get it typed. writing obviously not a strong point of old gordy's, acknowledge it and get it corrected.
i'm not in favour of leaping all over him for this - the OUTRAGE is an overreaction. but it's just a silly, sloppy misjudgement that could have been avoided.
btw, i wouldn't even attempt to handwrite a letter, let alone a missive as sensitive as this. i can barely write a birthday card without fucking it up. :)
And he was called Jamie Janes
ffs
yes - which is a far better name than Jamie James.
who would call their child Jamie or James James?
David James or Clive James
My name gets misspelt all of the time
and it annoys me, and had I been in this position I guess I'd have found it annoying. BUT by taking it to The Sun, they lost all of my sympathy - over the letter that is, not over the loss of their son of course.
you had sympathy for the letter before it was in the Sun?
on a barely-related note, the Sun has a story with the headline:
'Britney slammed Down Under'
Amazing, just amazing.
:D
Local headline here...
http://www.theargus.co.uk/news/4727405.Portslade_soldier_s_mother_disgusted_at_letter_from_Prime_Minister/
I mean honestly, this is getting ridiculous. He's got bad eyesight, rushed a letter out, yeh it should have been checked but the over-reaction has been extraordinary.
How can anyone even TELL that he misspelled anything?
His penmanship is so bad, it's barely possible to make out what's written. This whole thing is a bit ridiculous.
He should have got it checked before sending it though...
I suppose it's just the nature of politics when things aren't going your way.
Even the smallest negatives are put under the microscope.
Exactly
Had this been Cameron, it'd have been a footnote on page 12 while had Clegg done it, there wouldn't have been a mention in the papers.
There's no denying that there's much that's gone wrong in the last couple of years that you can blame on Brown, but commonly things that aren't his fault are being blamed on him or blown out of proportion by the media because it fits the story of an incompetent Brown government.
Sounds like they deserved to lose their son, tbh.
The parents are a horrible pair of ani.
You really are a cunt.
wouldn't have expected that from you grouchland...
Whether you think he should have had the letter checked or not
the amount of stick he's got for this (especially from The Sun, which manages to reach a new low almost) and for the crime of not bowing at the Cenotaph yesterday (eh? Did he graffiti it while nobody was looking as well?) is ridiculous and pathetic. I've seen serial killers get less stick. Brown and his party have many faults (of course the press never bother noticing any important faults in government), but he's still ten times the man that any wanker Sun or Express journalist is.
I saw this on the news this morning and thought she was looking to be offended
She complained that complete (or something like that) was spelt cumplete, only it wasn't it was just the o wasn't fully joined. I bet she has friends that she showed it to and they were all too scared to tell her what an OTT douche she was being.
When I first read it this morning I just thought:
"Oh, another anti-Brown Sun story, no big deal". But it's escalated so quickly and to such a ridiculous extent.
I feel really sorry for him. Not just in this situation but in general. Poor bugger isn't being given a chance by the public or the press anymore. I'm not saying he hasn't made some pretty embarrassing mistakes but the reaction to this has been completely overblown.
if the first one had all spelling mistakes and crossings out in it
why not just write out a second one?
*Labour party support disclaimer*
But... He obviously wrote a had written letter 'to show he truly cares'. Spelling the name wrong shows he doesn't really care and the whole letter writing is just a gimmick.
That said, not headline worthy.
no
it just shows that a half-blind man who's running the country has better things to do with his time than check his handwriting. may not be ideal but its the truth. give him a fucking break
That's kinda that exact point ho_fo is making though, innit?
That Brown makes out he absolutely DOES NOT have better things to do with his time than right letters to the berevaed families of dead soldiers. That honouring those men and women is a priority over all other priorities. That said, perspective seems to have gone out of the window here.
Jesus fucking Christ, I agree with ho_fo.
When I stated this to my colleages of work they tore me apart
but they were all girs, and probably on their peridod... and they know i'm right
I said to them, i'd understand why the parents would be upset, in a way, but I dont see why we should be <--- worst mistake of my life when they said it was part of a bigger picutre, and I said the bigger picture which needs to be dealt with now as opposed to having our leader checking over 30 odd letters when he is known for bad penmanship, he has better things with his times... still dint respect my opinion now they wont speak to me, cows :(
:(
thats cos they are the sort of people that can only contemplate or think about that which has been placed directly in front of their eyes.....they cannot extrapolate or consider wider pictures or consider anything beyond the world of 'anecdotes'
Its people like them that negate what should be 'the advantage of democracy' and turn voting into something that is more irrelevant.....of course it isnt really their fault, they are a section of society that is groomed into reacting and thinking like this by....you guessed it....the media
Does anyone support Brown anymore?
I feel well sorry for him. He's like the kid in the playground who can't get his words out right and has a thomas the tank engine lunchbox, whilst the Sun is the gang leader with dead, piggy eyes and a head like a block of ham
Do you think the mother of the deceased soldier was paid money by the Sun for this story?
I'm not trying to make a point here, I'm just wondering.
either she received money directly or donated the fee to help for heroes, i reckon
The thing is: what would seem less genuine? a hand-written letter by a guy with poor handwriting or a typed and signed letter that could have been ghost-written by one of his employees? You're damned either way.
i'd say...
perhaps be more careful writing letters to the parents of the recently deceased in future...y'know?...i mean, for all the staff that must be rushing around him, the secretaries that must have presented him with the names of the people in the first place..someone couldn't have just given a notoriously bad writer's letter a quick once over
....but then you say, well...he's the prime minister...should be capable of writing a letter on his own...doesn't have time to check everything...well yeah but don't then come out and say that everyone is aware his writing is a bit ticky....if it's to be expected, have it checked.
it's like me writing an essay with awful grammar and spelling and then when i get a shit mark going...'well, no see, my grammar is always really bad'. well....take more care then sunshine.
that said, the fact that the woman went to the sun negates much of her stance. can't people just be upset in private...i'm not sure the first thing i would do in that situation is get on the blower to the most insidious, sensationalist, creeping tabloid in the western hemisphere so they can use my sons death in some politcal point scoring.
of course she has a right to be upset, but i'm not sure it should have been extrapolated for a wider context. but then perhaps she thinks she's doing her bit for men like her son, to make sure other wives and mothers don't get shoddy letters in the future.....but just the fucking sun.
i dunno...some fair points either side but the presence of the sun has just blown it up into a pugnant shit heap.
Transcript of the call between Gordon and Mrs James
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2009/nov/10/gordon-brown-jacqui-janes-transcript
My sympathy for her returned somewhat after reading that. When she talks about the coroner it's pretty heartbreaking.
JJ: "Mr Brown, to this day, I know as fact helping my sons buy equipment themselves before they went to to war. I know of every mother, the letters I have received off mothers ... in Iraq, in Afghanistan, you know, friends of mine that were killed in Northern Ireland. I know that our government is letting our troops down, big time."
Not really the issue in hand, is it? (Comes across as scripted by the Sun?)
GB: "I am sorry ... I don't think I did have spelling mistakes. My writing is maybe so badly (muffled) that you can't read it and I'm sorry.
But I have tried to write honestly and honourably about the contributions your son made and ... (muffled) can't be read. I know from colleagues James was a brave, selfless professional soldier held in the highest regard."
JJ: "I don't need anyone to tell me how brave my son was. My son paid the ultimate, ultimate sacrifice."
It's a bit harsh of her to come back at him like that. He could perhaps be a little more prepared to accept some responsibility for any spelling mistakes, etc. But I think on balance, she's overlooking the gesture of the personally composed, handwritten letter.
Her son joined the army. People who do that do so knowing the risks. She's still grieving.
GB probably had best intentions, but shoulda got it proofread, considering what we know about his handwriting.
For the Sun to tap the call is pretty insidious. Their overt involvement in all of this stinks.
He should of just admited to the spelling mistakes, even if he didn't believe he made any.
Said sorry and made an excuse while he has to go (running the country, etc) and hung up. He's not doing himself any favours here.
this sums it up quite well.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/blog/2009/nov/10/analysis-gordon-brown-jacqui-janes
I didn't realise it was the Sun what done it (should've read the top)
I feel so manipulated.
STITCHED UP LIKE A KIPPAH!
"My wife's gonna kill me!" etc...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDVbBr1glBY
I'm all for democracy and everyone's voice being heard and people being equal blah blah blah
But when is it that a scummy woman can oust the Prime Minister? He's the Prime minister ffs.
There's nothing democratic about
the manipulation and exploitation of a mother's grief in order to further the UK political agenda of a rich media behemoth Aussie living in the US.
But I'm not sure it's playing out the way it was intended. People seem to be on to the Sun for this one.
People seem to be wising up generally, with the aid of the intertrons.
Searching for Sun and Letter into http://twitter.com/search shows that even twitterers know the score.
the majority of twitters are left leaning and middle-class (see how popular twitter is in the guardian)
so this does not surpise me, it is not an accurate reflection on the mood of the nation.
Statz Plz
okz
http://tinyurl.com/twitterstatz
I'm sold!
Although, to be serious for a mo: http://tinyurl.com/realtwitterstatz
nods
Yeah but the 'mood of the nation' (as seen on the Daily Mail website)
is even more irritating than the mood of Guardian readers on Twitter - all you learn from this stuff is that people in general are morons.
Haven't seen the Daily Mail website
but agree that the messagesboard on all mainstream newspaper websites are equally moronic and none truelly reflect the 'mood of the nation'.
Although even on the Daily Mail comments
they seem to think the whole thing's a bit of an overreaction. Given how much they like giving Labour and Brown a kicking over there, it suggests the Sun actually have completely misjudged this one.
The problem is
(reading the transcript)
that many/most people in armed conflicts could be said to have died needlessly.
The British army has almost ALWAYS been underequipped. This is a continual state of affairs if you listen to the advice from the armed forces.....because things always need replacing/upgrading.....its the nature of things....there is a arms race of equipment.
Supplies are never going to be enough.
Many people in armed conflict and wars suucumb to their injuries because they are not treated in time, I imagine that you could say that any of these lives could be saved.
Mistakes and mishaps and problems occur in armed conflicts/war its the nature of the things, things are naturally disr5upted and do not run smoothly, it IS CHAOTIC to an extent the job is to manage that.
BUT if say an particular sub area in a conflict was actually focussed on and a side fully equipped and manned and prepared to deal with the threat there, then naturally the enemuy would be best to switch and attack at areas which were less well equipped and focussed or areas that were under pressure from other things.
one can plan ahead, but one cannot plan to have no setbacks or losses.
This womans feelings cannot be denied but it is wrong of the sun to use them in such a way
Indeed.
I think this has backfired on The Sun. And may /possibly/ even coax a small sympathy vote out in favour of GB.
Definate sympathy vote for him.
Accident
Exactly
Thinking about this...
GB seems to be genuine in his intentions, but can't (bring himself to?) get the right emotions across.
D'you think Blair or Cameron would be able to do a better job?
I suspect they could say the right words, but I'm not sure if they could say it in such a way that would seem truly genuine.
WELL SAID SARKYFOX
Sorry
I'm aware that seems a moronic last post, but I really am glad that people on here are politically as well as musically enlightened. I don't like Gordon Brown, but I think he is able to show caring more than Cameron or Clegg and seems like a nice human being outside of his position, as a neighbour or something, which the other two don't. The Sun is wrong to do what it has done, but the sad fact is, the majority read it and accept whatever they are fed by it.
Surely its more personal
getting spellings wrong, than being totally correct?
Shows he's only human.