BNP Question Time
What and awful awful awful panel
Sayeeda Warsi
Jack Straw
Chris Huhne
Bonnie Greer
I thought Nick Griffin would get hung out to dry, but now i fancy his chances.
What about Starkey, Hislop, Dawkins....anyone!
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*an
I hope Griffin comes out of it looking like the twat he is.
You'd have thought the Beeb will plant a few mouthy students in the crowd to try and coerce him into being a huge dickhead live on air. If he's got his noggin screwed on, though, he'll stick to the official line, not rise to any bait, hope for some sort of demonstration and it's not impossible it could actually be good PR for them, the cunts.
To be honest, i'm not sure how much of the possible big party to BNP swing would watch Question Time, but the tabloid media's take on it could be pretty influencial. The BNP should have a voice, if only because they'll trip themselves up eventually and them being forced to be more transparent and less of a rebel party might arguably weaken them.
^ I don't really know what i'm talking about here.
"I don't really know what i'm talking about here."
You either do, or, you've copied and pasted from someone who does.
Not sure about the potential for the BBC planting peeps in the audience tho.
Chris Huhne
is very, very capable in TV debate. He was (imo) the clear winner in the last round of televised LibDem leadership debates. Clegg only won it by the very slimmest of margins.
He's possibly my favourite current MP.
I've had one eye on him for a while, and I wouldn't bet against him becomeing Prime Minister one day (you read it here first).
He's a very safe pair of hands in a situation like this.
Starkey - far too gobby and abrasive. He's an objectionable elitist. He'd lose his head. In fact, there's a chance he'd turn people onto the BNP. He deals in history, so there's too much room for opinion in the work he does.
Dawkins - similar to Starkey, insofar as he's extremely self opinionated. Would possibly fare better than Starkey on the basis of him specialising in conveying messages containing cold, hard, dry facts to folk who
Hislop - Fair call. Very often, the most effective way to neutralise someone and their opinions is to ridicule them. Hislop is a master at this. It's his profession. He's widely popular across the political divides.
As for others who're on:
Straw - Apart from Brown, he's probably the most senior well-known government figure. Comes across well on telly (even if you don't especially like him).
Sayeeda Warsi - An appaling choice. Could possibly do more harm than good. Very poor in tv debate with a thouroughly objectionable personality. Comes across so awfully on Question Time that I'm surprised the Tories let her back on. Well I'm not, seeing as she's a northern and not white, which is always handy when the Conservatives want to prove they're 'inclusive'.
Bonnie Greer - Don't know that much about her but, from what I've seen, she seems to be capable of holding her own.
I'd like to have seen:
Ken Clarke - Not especially my cup of tea politically, but he's a good speaker who argues his case well and comes across well on tv.
Tony Benn - Holds view more aligned with my own, and carries a gravitas. Although I acknowledge that potential BNP converts are more towards the young/dumb end of the spectrum so his powers /might/ be lost on them.
Gervais? - Or any other vaguely clever populist comic. Would be more effective in this situation than a comic who's known as being politically overt (Mark Steel, Mark Thomas, Rob Newman, or even Izzard).
On Sayeeda Warsi,
she wouldn't be my first choice either but she's clearly a good candidate for the job: She's brown, a muslim, a woman, and importantly, the shadow minister for community cohesion, so this falls directly within her brief.
Really, I don't think the Conservatives could have picked anyone in the circumstances.
Yup, to say that they felt their hand was forced somewhat, is probably true.
But she really does contribute some of the most cringeworthy moments to QT.
We're talking a Hazel Blears level of awfulness.
Yes. /That/ bad.
I dunno
I read somewhere that Michael Gove was an earlier choice, and I reckon he'd have done pretty well. He's a better live presence than Warsi, at any rate.
a) Straw seems particularly up for the ruck.
b) Smarmy complainer Alan Duncan should shut his cakehole about it being all wrong that Griffin's gonna be allowed on tv. Cos, yeah, that worked so effectively against the IRA, compared to serious talks, didn't it?
c) That shoulda been at the end of the thread. Damn you, DiS - I refreshed and everything! Do I have to exit a thread if I wanna make two replies now? I demand a refund...
Sure?
I agree pretty much.
For once, I'm disappointed that
Shami Chakrabarti isnt on it. They probably asked her and she refused or something. She would have given him a proper mouthful.
Also Mr. T would have been good. He would have brought the pain.
This surely is gonna get record figures, right? I actually can't wait to see what sort of reception he gets. It could literally result in chaos.
Is it broadcast live?
It's broadcast two hours earlier...
Then quickly cut down to fit an hour
You never know... Mr T might have pitied the fool...
but she's only marginally less annoying than Griffin.
I can certainly see how she'd rub people up the wrong way.
No matter how right she may, or may not, be.
On balance, I like her. But I'm not sure she's the person to show Griffin up as the tool he is. Especially not in the eyes of the potential/current BNP demographic.
Am I the only one who's starting to think...
that we can only hide behind "freedom of speech" and "I'll defend to the death your right to be a fascist" for so long before the retarded nature of thinking like this, and by extension, giving hate-mongers a national platform, starts to hit home?
I mean, sooner or later you have move beyond all the mealy-mouthing liberal ideology and realize that there's good and there's evil and Nicholas Griffin, well, he's evil, isn't he?
far as i'm aware
this is about the first time the BNP have been given chance to have a platform like this at all
actually, i just remembered they had a party political broadcast, because they'd got enough % of the vote in the previous election and under current laws it'd have been illegal to deny them, or something
tricky situation, isn't it? you keep them pushed underground and it'll just further militate the supporters. i can't remember/be arsed to look at figures, but i'm fairly sure that over 1 million people voted for the BNP in the european elections. correct me if i'm wrong, but even a tenth of those, angry and ready to lash out etc - be a bit worse than the "english" "defence" league
on the other hand, if griffin's a smooth enough operator he won't get drawn into anything potentially embarrassing and will try present the BNP as, well, not a flowery nice party, but not as the right-wing extremists that they are. i hope he puts his foot in it, but i'm not sure he will. that said, him doing that wouldn't alienate him to his core support, but at least might help keep them a fringe party
it's a no-win situation, isn't it? kinda you're damned if you do, damned if you don't. people who want to be far-right extremists will be far-right extremists and you can't really stop them. especially during times of perceived crisis, when ideologies on the periphery historically flourish. i don't see question time either winning or losing the BNP much support, but what's most interesting is that it is a change of tack from someone, at least. will it work? who knows. is the current fingers-in-ears approach working for the political mainstream? no, not really.
Yeah, I see what you're saying.
I suppose you could say that the vast majority of peeps don't want them in power, but as you say...that 1 million who do is somewhat disconcerting. I doubt anyone who's been skeptical of the BNP "cause" will be converted come Friday morning, but...I dunno. You can never say never, particularly, as you say, in times like these.
Very underwhelmed by the panel
but not at all worried by Griffin's appearance or the idea that the BNP are being given a legitimate public platform. Perhaps it's insanely naive and misguided of me but I have belief in the vast majority of this country's voters. As a nation we don't want them, as local governments we don't want them. I'm not convinced an appearance, or even 100 appearances, on the BBC will change that fact.
I do think you are perhaps a little naive here
i think theres a lot more racist morons in this country than you would hope, and theres probably a lot more closest BNP voters and potential BNP voters than you think (just go on facebook and look at all the anti-immigration groups there are and what people write in them) Giving them a voice on a 'respectable political debate' tv show like question time underlines them as the kind of "legitimate political party" that people who do not fully understand their prejudices (aka a lot of people in this country and perfect BNP bait) can potentially align themselves to. Think about how many people who you probably know who might say something like "ah i know that we have an immigration problem - originally i thought of the BNP as a bunch of tools but after seeing Griffin on Question Time (see also: hearing about it on the internet after) i can kind of see what hes getting at."
Hitler didnt get into power because everyone in germany wanted to kill all the jews.
It is possible to be anti-immigration and not be racist.
correct
well done
I love Bonnie Greer
but yeah, a missed opportunity I think.
Bonnie Greer singlehandedly ruined Late Review/Newsnight Review for me
Plus she's American for god's sake!
Think she'll be completely awful. Don't know about the rest of the panel.
^racist
I hope this is a big anitclimax
Griffin will play it safe and not get drawn into any arguments, he'll deflect any tricky questions and it will all pass off without real incident.
It would probably be best all round as it would only be the BNP who would benefit from the further publicity of a controversial episode of Question Time that is all over the news the next day.
indeed
would also be amusing if somehow he was the most charming man ever put in front of a tv camera and was full of witty stories and delicious anecdotes that seduced both the panel and the live audience and at one stage he walks round the front and sits on the desk whilst regaling one particulary funny incident
Nah
You're thinking of nigel farage
Imagine if it didn't, though?
Griffin gets flustered at a barrage of questions and accidentally calls someone a 'darkie' leading to deadly silence, a tumbleweed floats across the studio and as the sound is cut Griffin's hauled out of the studio kicking and screaming by two massive beefcake bouncers.
Even this lot can’t mess it up
It’s not going to be that difficult to take apart Griffin just by delving into his and his party’s history. All the smug, dead eyed political veneer will be taken apart as soon as someone says “so yeah Nick.. remember when you wrote that book denying the Holocaust?” and “remember when you shared a stage with the Klan?” Of course many of the members of his public support will be unfazed by that sort of thing, but it might convince a few people with less of an in depth knowledge who have been won over by their superficialities.
The only problem will be trying to keep a right on, granola student aura from filling every aspect of the programme. That’ll put off plenty of people who will see it as a self congratulary rally for the “PC gone mad” brigade, when you can take Griffin apart without getting hysterical about it. You just have to calmly deride and dissect him.
Don't be surprised...
... if there's a sixth panelist announced very late on. I can't reveal my sources, but hey, you heard it here first.
You've heard the Chris Eubank rumours aswell, huh?
Oh wow, someone on the internet knows something that other people don't.
He can't tell us because it's super duper secret, but he just wants us to know that he know something that we don't. Wow. Impressed.
^ jealous
Yeah man, I wish I knew that someone may or may not be added to the panel.
But hey, if someone does get added, I won't be surprised because, you know, I heard it here first!
You flatter me unpronouncable-user-name
Sorry for creating such unbearable envy.
I'm happy to tell you the rationale behind it though, which is to cut off the 'white working class populist geezer' schtick at source. It's quite a good move in that respect and will hopefully make Bonnie Greer even more redundant than she is already.
Ross Kemp??
danny dyer?
Cher?
and (a) Cher-alike.
Moses Kiptanui
Bonnie Greer is usually bloody annoying
There's something so frustrating about her aloof, South Bank-dwelling professional intellectual persona. She's vaguely condescending but not nearly fiery enough to engage in a big old row.
Warsi is a total berk. Huhne and Straw are not bad choices. Straw will kick off, he's been preparing for weeks.
yep, i'm looking forward to straw
hopefully he's gonna rip him to shreds
What this Question Time needs...
is Fearne Cotton hosting.
or gabby logan
just been announced as 5Live new main person. ugh!
If they really wanted to sort Griffin out they should get
Clare Balding.
too many public-schoolboys
plays into the hands of their 'we represent the white working class' argument. i'd have loved to have seen dennis skinner on if he wasn't so ill. he'd have taken him to bits.
Frank Skinner will have to do then.
Which is fine by me.
some of the mutants they have in the audience asking questions
struggle to get their words out at the best of times, I reckon it could be comedy gold in this one
Lily Allen
I reckon is a possibility, she would actually be half decent if they want a populist celeb who BNP voters might like.
Danny Dyer lolz
What about: Attenborough & Girls Alound?
Cheryl Tweedy!
She can beat up Bonnie Greer backstage in the toilets
Bonnie Greer's probably one of the five people I like the least in this country.
I'm genuinely concerned her presence'll be a bit of a coup for the BNP.
it'll never as good as this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYWXJEpUIvc
"he's a practising lawyer, he sits on chalfonts education commitee, and he's black"
i'm surprised the lady with a ten yr old boys haircut from Liberty didn't want a piece of this
although she'd probably shoot her mouth off, get angry and make Griffin look like the normal one.
Free speech is actually a pretty dumb idea
as it leads people to believe everyone's opinion carries equal weight, which it obviously doesn't.
News 24 gets this wrong a lot
[some medical story]
I have with me here Sir.Prof.Somethingorother who has 3 Phd's and a has been working on a ten year research programme on this topic, and to debate with him I have someone who is here to speak 'as a mother' who has no experience in the field but does feel a bit unsure about all of this.
Also a lot of people get confused with what free speech actually means.
In so far as that it means "you can express yourself how you like without fear persecution or arrest" not "you can express yourself how you ike without someone telling you you're an ignorant twat who's talking bollocks."
That's pretty much what I meant to say
thanks :)
Wouldn't Liberty tie themselves in knots?
I mean they'd surely be ideologically required to defend Griffin's right to express his views, otherwise he could just turn round and call them hypocrites.
Liberty don't defend the right to shout "Fire!" in a crowded theatre, as the old saying goes
Sure, but I still think they'd be a pretty easy target for Nick Griffin
I mean given what Griffin's arguing for (on a surface level) is a right for the BNP to express their opinions and be treated as you would a mainstream political party. Given that, bar the recent membership thing, the BNP aren't doing anything illegal, it'd be hard for the Liberty person to turn round and say "I support civil liberties for all but you should be banned from expressing your views because I don't like them" without being pulled upon it.
Are you implying that Britain is 'crowded'?
You RACIST
Hang On
Isn't Stagger Linn stopping this from happening anyway?
Yeah, in between smashing up Royal Mail temp scabs
no wonder he hasn't been posting much recently. Busy lad.
The not so funny thing is that...
I'm actually going down to the postal unit tomorrow morning. But I can't afford to go to the protest in London, so I'm going to the demonstration outside Manchester BBC instead on Thursday evening.
Whilst you're there, can you tell the workshy bastards to deliver the cheque i'm
waiting for from my dad?
lol :)
hmmmmmmmmmm interesting
Strongest posting
for some time.
:D
Stagger Lee?
he'd take care of Griffin, amirite?
I'm going to stop him from happening
Unite Against Unite Against Facism. I'm going to have some special rings made.
Just imagine...
...if we lived in a world where the words of you and someone like, I dunno... Bertrand Russell had equal weight.
*guffaw*
err, has anyone read the comments on the time's online article?
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article6880176.ece#
they're freaking me out
yep, this looks like it's gonna be interesting, but I reckon he's gonna get away with it.
and I'm indian and think he's a racist prick.
as economic prosperity diminishes, xenophobia increases. FACT!
Nick Griffin feels intimidated by the prospect of shouty student types
and wants the cops to back him up
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/journalists/duncan-gardham/6386936/Nick-Griffin-accuses-police-of-abandoning-his-security-at-BBC.html
Is the suggestion at the end of that article that
the BNP are not a far left organisation? Hmm, interesting, etc. etc.
Horseshoe
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horseshoe_theory
Though I prefer the Compass
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_compass
Thanks, i'm familiar with the horseshoe theory
It's the only thing i learnt in secondary school history, apart from maybe that there were these two world wars and the nazis were in the second one.
I was referring to how Gereorge likes to pull people up on describing the BNP as right wing, because they're just loony lefties, like all the other loony lefties, but everyone says 'NO NO!' etc. etc.
It was just funny to have Nick Griffin unwittingly entering this silly debate.
P.s. the compass thing
is a handy diagram that explains the confusion for anyone reading.
Thanks again! (i hope none of this sounds sarcastic or patronising, i don't mean it to be. That really was pretty much all i learnt in history, although the compass thing was actually something that i learned right here on drowned in sound. On this very subject!)
bonnie greer is an absurd choice. she's american and liberal elite. way to go bbc!
much better would have been Oona King - black/jewish liberal but lost her seat to islamists - or someone intelligent, articulate and universally loved like Lenny Henry.
Lib Dems should have picked someone more respected by common folk. I dunno who. At least they didn't go with Lembit Opik, I suppose.
Tories are having a larf, surely? Hague or Clarke would have been a much better choice, than a alienating member of the house of lords who ran a pretty nasty duplicitous campaign but happens to be Asian.
Jack Straw is alright I suppose.
"intelligent, articulate and universally loved...
like Lenny Henry".
he's intelligent and articulate
and i'd say he is pretty universally loved amongst the british public. amiwrong?
Yes.
Very.
I just fell off my seat reading that
I assumed it was a joke
it really wasn't
Im not sure if they should even be
putting ethnic minorities up against him at all. They will only be seen and portrayed (already evident on their website) by the cunts as evidence of bias or token candidates (which to be fair the Tory one is. I can picture the Tory meeting... Asian and a woman?!, GET HER ON FUCKING TELLY NOW)
I'm thinking as long as Jack Straw can ignore the attempts Griffin is gonna make to bring the war and "our boys" up every 32 seconds to counter arguments having nothing to do with it, then he will probably beat him down well. With his demon headmaster stare.
it is a damned if you, damned if you don't situation
but the best way to deal with it is have one question on race/multiculturalism in britain and then 8 on farming or cornish architecture or relations with canada - just have griffith look increasing concerned none of these have anything to do with race and his hamfisted attempts to change the direction of conversation.
i can't wait to see how he reacts to the inevitable question about that Jan Moir article
go on, say something about The Gays, griffo
i doubt he wants to talk about race
talking about europe, iraq/afghanistan, the economy legitimises him as his views will be similar to at least on or two other members of the panel.
absolutely
they have a lot of policies which are playing to a certain sector of society, giving those people what they want to hear as if a bona fide opposition party. As a political party with policies, are they that bigoted? As individuals, and as a group they certainly are. That's what needs to be shown
that would neccesitate him being stupid
as well as a moron.
BNP leader compares senior military critics to Nazi war criminals
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article6883093.ece
“Those Tory generals who today attacked the British National Party should remember that at the Nuremberg trials the politicians and generals accused of waging illegal aggressive wars were all charged — and hanged — together.”
I'm going to the Beeb on Thursday to protest.
I'm not really protesting that he's speaking on Question Time - in fact I'm curious to hear what the arsewhistle will have to say for himself and his party - I just think that when the BNP go anywhere they should always have placards and banners and shouting aimed at them, calling them out for the nasty fuck slices that they are.
So I'm just gonna go and make a lot of noise.
I hate the BNP and I've done anything about it so off I'll go.
they feed off that kind of shit
Makes their victim complex feel justified, and helps them link that to the idea of a repressed white working class. Better to usher them into the cold light of political reality and ask them some questions upon their education and health policies, or how exactly sending em all back home will help the economy.
No
i'm still hoping
it's noel edmonds' most elaborate house party gunging ever.
"and the leader of the British National Party, Nick Griff....GUNGEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE" *splat*
this will end up like every other time they've tried to get Griffin to debate politics with members of the public... people calling him a vile racist.
"WHY ARE YOU A VILE RACIST?"
"Could you please explain which of our policies are racist?"
"AVOIDING THE QUESTION EH? BURN THE WITCH!!!"
"No? Not gonna name any of them?"
"RACIST!"
It never works because the general public tend to be idiots, and the publicity this one has got will no doubt bring in more simpletons than usual.
Expect less questions and more cream-pie slinging.
totally agree
i'm very worried he's going to come out of this looking brilliant, due to the utter morons in the audience who believe shouting 'racist!' constitutes winning an argument.
the griffin panel
samuel l jackson
prince naseem hamed
george foreman
shadow from gladiators
five men enter, four men leave!
what because they're black they're automatically going to kill someone?
BNP MEMBER ^^^^
three boxers/bodybuilders
encouraged by jackson's powerful oratory skills could probably kill just about anybody.
new non-murderous panel then:
howard from the halifax ads
nelson mandella
desmond tutu
thierry henry
five men enter, and part as friends!
Le Pen Knee-dropped?
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/tv-appearence-boosted-support-for-french-farright-leader-1806549.html
urgh
in one respect I'd like to watch Question Time tonight. Although on the other hand, I bet it will pretty much be something along the lines of the following:
Dimbleby - tonight's guests are Jack Straw, Bonnie Greer, Nick Grif-
Audience - BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO ('fuck you griffin!' 'you massive bellend!' 'twat!') BOOOOOOO
and
Dimbleby - ok, let's have a question for Nick Grif-
Audience - BOOOOOOOO
Dimbleby - SHUT UP! let's have a question for Mr Griffin... ok, you at the back, with the funny haircut
Student Audience Member - LOL Y R U SUCH A MASSIF RACEIST
Everyone on panel - FACEPALM
Or something along those lines.
Didn't thee BBC say they're letting BNP members into the audience
to balance it out? I'm hoping it turns into a wild west style bar brawl in the first five minutes.
Also
I love how parts of this thread makes it sound like Jack Straw has been training in the mountains for months ready to take on Griffin in a deathmatch. If he doesn't call him out wrestling style straight off the bat I'll be very upset. I have this awesome image of him tearing his shirt off and circling him brandishing a trident and net to the Star Trek fight music.
hes been running around in the snow for weeks
This is probably the best thing ever posted on DiS
I'm in tears at my desk
with Harry Hill at the back of the studio...
"Liberal student types? Right-wing BNP supporters? who's the best at making a twat of themselves? There's only one way to settle this..."
Sadly, you're almost certainly right.
this is all pretty exciting though?
even though its going to be really depressing when nothing much happens and griffin comes out looking more legitimate than when he came in... i'm still excited about watching it.
yemon
great TV
who was the DiSer would said they'd go to the protest
and are they ginger?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/gallery/2009/oct/22/bnp-question-time?picture=354623432
hollywood_freak | 20 Oct '09, 23:49
http://drownedinsound.com/community/boards/social/4203124#r4948590
that's not ho_fo
Not ho_fo fo sho'?
What did Timothy Spall do to deserve this?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/gallery/2009/oct/22/bnp-question-time?picture=354605909
this is a silly protest
Jack Straw's defo looking pretty intimidating
http://images.google.co.uk/images?q=demon%20headmaster
ahahaha
:D
He's not going to go on there after all this kerfuffle
and 'do a Boris', is he?
I couldn't handle the Great British public doing it to us again...
I wonder if he'll ...
goose step in to the studio?
two words
general.
woundwort.
part 3 of this is a must watch
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZavF-y-QUg&feature=related
that was incredible
"white people are becoming extinct. it's like saving the whales"
brilliant.
a friend at the beeb says nick griffin got 'mauled'
Ted Maul-ed?
this is going to be horrible isnt it?
oh dear
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8321491.stm
Some clips
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8321566.stm?ls
EVERYONE EXCITED?!
no
the BBC news is spoiling it by giving edited highlights as a leading news story
^this
plus stop spoiling it vikram :@
Fucking hell
the Beeb are really milking this
I count fully 10 minutes on this as this as the leading story
strange over-apologistic behaviour
this this this
yeah it's become a media event
totally out of proportion to the importance of griffin's appearance on a show usually watched by 2.5-3 million or so people
Sky News just ran
"Nick Griffin has left the building" as their top story. Possibly hoping to avoid scenes like this..http://www.scottymoore.net/images/FLTheater/screamingFLtheater.jpg
5 minutes in and he plays the
'theyre picking on me' card. fat, weedy little twat.
dimbleby and straw rocking n rolling so far.
jack straw's nervous as fuck
what the fuck is straw on?
"one"
griffith just merked straw
i dunno
it's a bit "my dad battered your dad", that bit
yeah, that was pretty irrelevant.
ZING
i still don't get why bonnie greer's on this
although she did just make a good point
"This is video footage of him being misquoted"
:D
dimbleby = the best he's been for ages here
Dimbleby roxx tonight
and judging from Facebook, Straw is the most popular politician in the world right now.
squirm squirm fucking squirm
there's a lot of studenty types on this
this is beautiful
i'll be telling my kids about this.
Greer is embarassing
" i did once stand beside David Duke, who was a leader of a Klu Klux Klan"
nice
"a totally non-violent member of the [Ku Klux Klan]"
errrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
to be fair
some kkk factions are non violent
honestly....
"in a hood haha!"
bonnie greer is a tool
"an almost totally non-violent one"
while talking about a version of the KKK
i'm sure i wasn't the only to laugh REALLY FUCKING LOUDLY at that
yeah, that's the answer you give sitting next to an empowered black american woman
one thing i hope
we get onto non-about-the-BNP matters later
i wonder what the funny question will be at the end
after all this griffin bashing asking them, because Gordon Brown didn't answer earlier in the week, 'What is the panel's favourite biscuit?'
i bet nick griffin only eats rich tea biscuits
or, BIGOT biscuits
it is the whitest biscuit
i hope he gets to answer a question sometime..
this isn't a political discussion
it's nick griffin on trial. missed oppertunity to expose them for what they are. and where's all the love for churchill come from? he was a fat bigot just like griffin.
Indeed
Churchill's statements on Arabs and Indians are on the record and easily available.
"i cannot explain why i used to say those things"
c'mon then...
10 points to Straw
griffin looks nervous
and defeated already
that guy in the green cardigan looks like a knob
i've got a problem with the way the panel is addressing griffin. they're just having a go at him; they should be acting a bit more professionally.
haha jack straw giving the big one about sorting out the other courts!
greer is an embarrassment though
Green cardigan guy
was a right smug cunt
there are some absolute morons in the audience like
ooh, now onto the islam argument
it's evil and dispicable but at least they wouldn't have got us into the credit crunch
i really don't like sayeeda warsi
This is more amusing than Buzzcocks that's for sure.
I hope it's not ALL just an attack on the BNP though or else this will just make some militant followers that bit more militant.
it's ok, it's back to labour vs tories now
She's growing on me right now...
she's doing much better now
I hereby unthis my above this.
it's basically "let's fuck Nick Griffin in the ass while he's on TV"
i can't say i object tho...
What kind of job title
has the words "community cohesion" in it??!! Oh...that one I suppose.
This program is bullshit. It's essentially "who can make the audience clap the loudest". Smashing the BNP is eeaasssyy, they should be doing this in a better way.
this is awful
griffith is making the most sense out of all of them, its horrible. if they let him answer he'll dig a hole, but they're giving him gold.
what show are you watching?
he's not exactly making the most sense
but those who see the world as he does - or the way he presents he does - will feel that he IS just being victimised rather than generally being a chump, a fool or a charlatan
i love the chuckles in the crowd at
"you can follow us on twitter"
Didn't DD look disgusted when he said it too...
Ooo ooohh
Blonde bird with nice wazoommas in the front row.
malcolm tucker would fucking kill jack straw for giving this answer
what the fuck is he blathering on about?!
warsi has pretty much hit the nail on the head
how did that guy get in?
"was the conservatives not the labour what done it!"
haha
what a legend!
Sayeeda is doing alright
They should let Griffin talk more
Exactly they should just give him enough rope
and let him hang himself. Everyone else just seems to be talking over each other in a bid win brownie points with the public
who the hell is this in the suit
the poster boy for the young conservative party?
Just another
smug bastard. the audience seems to be full of people who want to rip in to griffin and get a clap
he's such a Blairite
you're right
this choir is getting a fucking awesome sermon
didn't Griffin do any preparation for this?
he's falling apart even on the questions that were 100 % sure to come up. I thought he'd be at least "professional" enough to come up with a competent act.
he's not completely falling on his arse
but he's not doing well
hasn't really had much practice outside his comfort zone though has he?
and this was his moment
to do the "we represent the ordinary British people" speech but he derailed into some racial bollocks.
yep
he lost his cool
It is a little strange
Griffin seems to get halfway through a sensible answer and then shoot himself in the fucking foot.
Shaw is just seething with anger. Or incompetence. I dunno.
anger
i do like Jack Straw angry. i can't remember the last time i saw a politician with such passion
"it's not about colour... it's about who's been here for the last 17,000 years"
!
griffin says something
a couple of people clap
everyone turns around to check out who the racists are. brilliant
there was an ice age here
there were no people here, because of the ice
Little bit of sexual tension between Bonnie and Nick I think. She wants him bad.
I kind of got the impression it was the other way round
I saw a bit of a Monsters Ball type scenario developing there.
DICK griffin
WWWAAAHHHEEEEYYY!!
dick griffin (facepalm)
so bad
dick griffin :D
i both cringed and giggled
Some thoughts:
There's a lot of pretty girls in the audience.
The opening twenty minutes were twenty minutes of cringe inducing right on-ness.
Griffin's attack on Islam - his claims about it's teachings - are about 80% correct. Scary.
Jack Straw political double-speaking like a motherfucker, yo.
Griffin looks terrified. Good.
Have the failures of Labour's immigration policy helped the BNP? Yes. Who'd argue otherwise?
That Jewish kid in the audience seemed a bit hyper.
Griffin looks like a pantomime villain.
Let him answer a question and see how he righteously fucks himself.
Wouldn't ensuring Britain is a Christian-majority country violate some sort of secular law? I hope and pray it would.
Back to immigration: It's an issue which really does need tackling. Now is not the time to pussy out, especially with Griffin, et al clamoring at the gates. It is a very frightening prospect to your average old-school Brit (regardless of colour) to be the only one on their street speaking English.
Bonnie Greer is pretty cool. Even Griffin seems impressed.
Griffin is a fucking cunt.
He is a fucking evil, evil cunt.
we have an established state religion
and our laws are based on pretty basic christian values
jack straw is failing horribly
True. But I thought since we joined the EU,
we were encouraged to favor a more secular society?
Straw is totally failing.
agree with absolutely everything
apart from bonnie greer. she's awful.
I think Sayeeda is very pretty.
Plus, she's a Leeds lass.
Nick Griffin must be in deep, deep shock; the only people so far (apart from this fat fucker in the suit) who've attacked Labour's immigration policies are ethnic minorities.
Bonnie Greer is spot-on about Gatelygate <----I should be a tabloid newsman.
Yeah, I think my mind is fucked.
Sayeeda seems to be getting hotter. I like her feistiness.
Christ.
She is pretty hot tbf
hang on - I need to bring you up on this you said about 80%
right on Muslim teachings. The Koran says a lot of extreme stuff - so does the bible, actually - don't eat shellfish!! but the vast majority of Muslims do not go with those teachings, just as the majority of Christians no longer believe everything in their teachings.
Its all lies and myths to scare with these people. Some of you seem to be believing these myths. Don't get sucked in.
.
a) When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord (Lev. 1:9). The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?
b) I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?
c) I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanness (Lev. 15:19-24). The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offence.
d) Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?
e) I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?
f) A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an Abomination (Lev. 11:10), it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this?
g) Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?
h) Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev.19:27. How should they die?
i) I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?
j) My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev. 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them (Lev.24:10-16)? Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws (Lev. 20:14)?
great stuff
When the President stands, nobody sits:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHaVUjjH3EI
I'd appreciate it if you didn't come at me like I've walked in halfway through the film, sir.
I'm well-versed in the Koran and the Bible (that's what 14 years of Catholic education will do to you). And I'm well aware of how liberal and open-minded most Muslims are, and proud we are of all of them.
BUT:
It's not a good enough defense on your part to say "well the Koran is rotten, but the Bible is just as bad."
It's ducking the issue 101. It gets us absolutely nowhere.
Islam has never really been subject to a series of reforms like the various churches have in western society. Since both Christianity and Islam originated in the Middle East, I hardly think it's unreasonable to ask why this hasn't happened yet.
I'll say it: Islam is a square peg in contemporary society. I'm not saying there's a massive conspiracy of Islamification underway, but I think you'd do well to bear in mind that a fascist is a fascist is a fascist, however they choose to dress up their language and behavior.
Make no mistake about it, adhering to the Koran *religiously*, i.e, being a true Muslim, would involve becoming a fascist.
Yes, so would adhering to the Bible strictly. But we aren't talking about Christianity. There was no need for you to bring it into the conversation. You did it because you're uncomfortable with singling out Islam.
Why should I be allowed to poke fun at Jesus, but fear for my life if I do the same to Mohammed? As we know, Mo' would most likely be tried and convicted of child molestation, blackmail, bribery, incitement to murder, first, second and third degree murder, enslavement, mass murder and war crimes if he were alive today. Yet I would never dream of saying this publicly for fear of swift and violent reprisal...despite telling the truth.
Granted, he'd probably get off on the grounds of insanity (his seizures, coincidentally occurring at the same time he claimed to have epic visions of angels delivering messages to him, his frequent mood swings and well documented suicidal periods of depression mark him out as bipolar at best, a manic depressive sociopath at worse).
I'm tired of this right-on "Let's single out all religions except Islam. Instead, let us criticize Islam only when we can also get a dig in at Judaism or Christianity." It's bullshit of the most odious order. Say what you want about Jesus, but he never said women make up the majority in hell, their testimony is only worth half of a man's, a good slap is in order if your bitch doesn't behave herself...yet Mohammed did say all of this. Repeatedly. At length.
Anyway, I'm tired of arguing about this. Until we grow the testicles necessary to tackle some of the dangers Islamofascism presents, there's not much point discussing either moderate Islam or it's extremist elements.
you are an idiot.
Panto season has come early!
Can't believe i missed Curb Your Enthusiasm for this.
what?!
Greer is the worst person on the bench.
I think she's done a good enough job.
Why doesn't anyone like her?
As someone who generally doesn't have much time for her I think she aquitted herself very well tonight.
that radio five phone in will probably make me want to claw my own face off
i'm sticking with nice cosy Andrew Neil and uncy portillo
My human instincts are tightening my judgement...
I'm starting to feel sorry for that flop eyed, bigoted, bitch.
he's getting realllllly uncomfortable now
finally, it's over
NO PLATFORM ON BOYZONE
also
nick griffin- peter griffin+jim ross.
BAH GAWD!
'mr.griffin, you hate the gays as well right?'
pretty much
I don't mind it, but I reckon most people are grossed out by men kissing, AMIRITE?!?!? GUYS???
creepy
I was praying for someone to ask Griffin to be more specific when he talked about gays kissing in public
i.e. was he revolted by two women kissing etc
BAN MARRIAGE!
oooh it's Meta-Question Time
Shits getting meta now
I am still amazed at Griffin's talent at self-sabotage. Even with the Gatley question he had to go on about gay couples kissing being "creepy" and "militant homosexuals".
but some peole DO think like that
you just hardly ever see them on the telly
yeah
a lot of the world probably does.
my whole family think like that
It's a pity the guests on QT aren't more representative of the public, could have led to a liveier debate.
my whole family think like that
just in case you didn't hear me the first time
Oh, I'm not denying that
But if he's purpose was to sell his party and its views as being more "moderate" or even sensible he's did a pretty horrible job.
But, y'know, I'm not exactly the BNP's target audience so maybe talking about the "creepy" gays was the right move...
How can anyone say Griffin came off well?
His little lunatic laugh whenever someone insulted him was as creepy as couple of gays kissing in the street. And don't get me started on his final words re:BBC and the leftist conspiracy....
Although, yeah, the others were all pretty much weak as fuck. Chris Huhne was probably best but it was a pretty weak showing. The worst people on Question Time will forever be the audience. They could invited fucking Satan on and some audience member would soon find a way to be more stupid.
Even though I doubt the BNP will lose votes because of this...
it may well encourage more people who didn't vote last time to go out and vote for other parties, so they could lose a big proportion.
Other things:
-Jack Straw saying a limit could not be put on population. Errr, well if WE don't do it, then nature will do so itself. It doesn't have to be absolute (i.e making having lots of babies illegal). Financial incentives could achieve the same effect.
-Just because Nick Griffin stated Islam is a bad religion, does not make it untrue. It would have been great if Richard Dawkins had been on this.
-Bonnie was pretty good going on about the history of Britain, undermining the concept of an "indigenous" population here.
well that shouldn't be here. I replied at the bottom.
Let's see if this goes in the right place this time.
Even though I doubt the BNP will lose votes because of this, it may well encourage more people who didn't vote last time to go out and vote for other parties, so they could lose a big proportion.
Other things:
-Jack Straw saying a limit could not be put on population. Errr, well if WE don't do it, then nature will do so itself. It doesn't have to be absolute (i.e making having lots of babies illegal). Financial incentives could achieve the same effect.
-Just because Nick Griffin stated Islam is a bad religion, does not make it untrue. It would have been great if Richard Dawkins had been on this.
-Bonnie was pretty good going on about the history of Britain, undermining the concept of an "indigenous" population here.
oh fuck off.
you're an idiot
How is Islam a bad religion? Who is defining bad? Have a think - before you answer - about the horrible things other great religious books have said and how the vast majority of its followers have dealt with these issues.
Just because other religions have bad aspects doesn't make Islam better.
One reason Islam is bad is because the penalty for leaving it is death.
Yeah, I sound like Dawkins.
this was also the case in Christianity for a long time i think.
Gotta love them militant homosexuals
Bumsexing in public.
BBC - ultra leftist
well that's a new one
Are you joking?
It's awash with jackets emblazoned with badges.
fucking commies
:)
I'm thinking more:
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a249/Trueleamer/Bachelor-Boys-the-young-ones/rik2.jpg
lol
I suppose they are resolutely anti-fascist.
http://www.art247.com/images/large/MIRRORPIX/WA/WA2824707.jpg
"ultra-leftist establishment"
we've FINALLY found something nick griffin and cg have in common"
incredible
Griffin finishes by attacking the BBC
if nick griffin criticises the bbc for being far-left
does that mean he disagrees with CG on himself?
'the bnp's policies have been properly scrutinised'
no jack. just a room of people calling each other names for an hour. utter crap.
I hate Jack Veto.
I hope I'm not the only person who remembers this militant homosexual?
http://www.pinknews.co.uk/images/richard.jpg
i thought he was a sexual terrorist
ok, instant reactions: i don't think griffin/bnp have gained anything, but they won't have lost much. why? how many bnp supporters watch question time?
I think it's a sad state of affairs for British Politics
that a man with such a vile countenance doesn't actually come off THAT badly against his political opposition
he just came off kinda silly
i don't think it's going to change anyone's views
however, from what i've read about Le Pen's first appearance, i can't see griffin's as being spun as being equal to that
but the millions of £ of PR has happened already
people rarely remember the content of debates like this.
yeah but
the amount of focus on the BNP threatened to legitimise them as a mainstream party (or not too far from) and the panel did nothing to assuage that threat - neither did the audience
only Dimbleby held it together
and I imagine a LOT of people around the UK feel the way Griffin feels - persecuted and ridiculed for having 'publicly unacceptable' views
tbh
i think the one major problem for griffin might be that question on immigration
i think the fact that the BNP has won a lot of votes on the fear of immigration, and suddenly you've got - plainly in comparison to BNP's policies - if not hardline but strong views on immigration, might've pulled the rug from under his feet
whether that's a good thing or a bad thing about the country/world...well, we've all got our own views on that
but for people who don't trust the political establishment
your 'strong views' are read as 'just more hot air', especially after all that Jack Straw waffle
Griffin came over as nothing more than a vile nasty man.
He didn't even come across as a leader, just a chubby quivering wreck. I can see no way that he gained any support tonight.
I imagine the BNP have been gaining voters from more moderate but slightly stupid people. With all the negative publicity that will follow this, I don't doubt this support will dry up over the next few days.
There is always going to be atiny minority of massive racists who won't be shifted, but it wasn't these people who got him on QT.
to you maybe
and to me
but I don't share your confidence regarding the rest of the British public
I could imagine my mum saying 'he was no worse than any of the rest of them' and my mum is about as politically middle of the road as you can get
obviously
the pro- and anti-BNP people won't move anywhere in their positioning,but I can't see how any floating voter might suddenly think that that nervous, nonsensical creep who is close to taking skull measurements of everyone is the right guy to lead the country.
he didn't put across any sort of vision for the future, or even a reasonable defense against everyone else in the room.
Griffin did okay - everyone else got too emotional
I'm really disappointed.
wait a minute wait a minute
five minutes after all that, did the presenter of the next show just a black woman a chocolate hobnob?!
i dunno
quite
0-0 draw
total preaching to the choir situation
Griffin should definitely be quite pleased with himself after that
he got away relatively unscarred considering what could/should have happened.
The demon headmaster failed miserably
all the best shots came from dimbleby (and one from huhne over the youtube/hitler bit)
greer was okay but nothing really stuck
same for warsi
What more could have happened though?
It got to the point where he was essentially being laughed at, him and his party have such little substance that it doesn't take long for the attacks to become saturated and pointless.
.
regardless of how crap the questioning was (i think there was some decent stuff)...nick griffin didn't come out of that looking good at all. he got fucked, as expected, and he was woefully unprepared. he didn't give a decent answer to anything
he looked like a shifty idiot
but i don't think anyone really capitalist on him being rocked by the quotes from his past to really knock him out
capitalised
he owned that muslim guy
but yes, except for that he didnt really answer much. not that he was given the chance
totally agree
he didn't come out looking good, his party wasn't justified, and to be honest he looked rather toothless.
but then, that;s to be expected.
i agree with what griffin had to say about islam
apart from that he looked a fool
Does Portillo have eyes?
and thanks to This Week for reminding me of the days of the week
andrew neil
calling dianne abbot and michael portillo the 'brown bourbon and custard cream of british politics'
racist statement of the night?
The left wear badges, the right wear broaches
i won't hear a bad word against andrew neil
Andrew Neil denied that there is a link between HIV and AIDS
True dat'
as well as
Dave Grohl. What is with that?
Hilarious
Unfortunately I think the BBC has missed a trick. Instead of having a crowd that were loud and aggressive, they should have had completely passive questioning. And then let him talk. Almost everything he said was completely idiotic. However, anyone with BNP sympathies will view his poor performance as complying with the underdog persona discussed earlier.
I think my favorite part was him nodding along in agreement to the argumentthat people only voted BNP because they we concerned about immigration So no-one would vote for them if this problem was sorted? Lol.
I also look forwardo the Christian leaders denouncing his views. that pretty much debases his entire arargument.
i think 90-95% of his support base vote for BNP solely because of immigration
and if it was sorted, there'd be nothing for him to run with.
of course, its not a problem that could ever be 'sorted', so to speak, so the question is rediculous and knifey
I would have put my hand up and said: ''Question one...nn?''
and then, with a wry smile ''let's see you get yourself out of that one''
meh
love it when the media eats itself. Question Time became Harangue Time. Pointless exercise. BNP are bad, who knew?
stupidity of the night wasn't even racist! amazing! Gay rights activists are MILLITANT!
Millitant Gays? Fuck the 60s Black Panthers...They have nothing on The Pink Panthers and their campaign of bombing, terrorism and same sex hugs and rainbows.. What an utter utter cretinous and stupid human being Nick Griffin is.
THREADSMASH!
Dis...
Nick Griffins biggest impact tonight has been on my ability to correctly reply on DiS. Damn you Nick
i thought he did well
in the sense that it could have gone worse for him. the other panelists turned it into a communal back patting session while stating the obvious on issues about race/immigration 50 times over.
I think I actually partly agreed with him on numerous things he said; the lack of a british identity, immigration (to an extent), sex education to young children and everything he said about Islam had a decent basis. But then he'd shoot himself in the foot by adding a completely outrageous sentence on the end that would give Greer or whoever the fuck she is to go on a 10 minute rant about her grandparents experience with black people
Well, that was a bit of a laugh.
Hasn't really enhanced my knowledge of politics though.
DD was on good form. Loved the plugging of YouTube and Twitter.
Would watch again. 7/10
they just showed the Klu Klux Klan bit again on This Week
somehow it sounds even more ridiculous than it did during the show
ALMOST totally non violent Klan leader
gotta get that disclaimer in there. Don't want to look foolish
well you wouldn't want to get mixed up with people thinking you're hanging
with the leader of *that* KKK
Griffin kept getting interrupted, which annoyed me
as others have said, they should've let him ramble himself into a hole.
Griffin's hair offended me almost as much as his political views
Almost.
Militant homosexuals?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ol5Dfs7jqFI
Griffin looked respectable
The audience sounded like a gang of pissed up chimps.
The other members of the panel will need industrial mouthwash once they get their tongues out of each others arses.
What about expenses, the economy, Europe? Waste of time.
you fucking racist!
he could've been nailed in a huge amount of ways, granted
and that was a key flaw: almost every single policy touched upon would have damaged him, but the promise to the teenager about returning to the EU and trade fell flat. shame.
Griffin was papped snogging Jack Straw
Shortly after this was filmed.
creepy
well that solved nothing
aside from the fact that I now have little respect from jack straw. why the hell was that woman from the british museum there?
basically we learned -
the BNP are widely considered to be evil by the masses. DUH
the BNP outwardly legitimised their operation to appear voteable. DUH
I seriously don't understand what it all was for? Basically to give the griffin and his party publicity. Its plainly obvious that they're very misguided about many things. It doesn't take BBC airtime and taxpayers money to figure that out, which is obviously what the station wanted as the whole thing was pop culture and a few faded polititians making fun of each others dads. They didn't really talk about anything that mattered, seeing as the BNP are never going to be an electable party, and the fact they're in Europe is just the consequence of people not being able to vote. Poor form.
I personally expected more from Straw. I still think he's one of the best of new labour, but he acted like a complete dick tonight.
*not being able
= not being arsed.
:(
Straw was a disaster
as I said above, the most telling anti-BNP points came from Dimbleby reading out the exact wording of old Griffin quotes and Nick squirming and trying to deny them
I didn't see it, but I was kind of hoping for this kind kind of reaction
when Griffin's name was mentioned: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0TZxFQaXkc
DICK griffin, hellooo?
that guy is a wanker
Griffin and David Duke chillaxing with tha klan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04QolIvfQEw
predictable audience
The booing after his homophobic rant was only matched by his applause for his islamaphobia
*islamophobia
also, the bits griffin said about the qur'an
all of that is in the old testament of the current christian bible. Looking at why Islam seems a far more radical faith can be boiled down to quite a points.
Marge, just about everything’s a sin
Y’ever sat down and read this thing? Technically we’re not supposed to go to the bathroom.
see this open letter to an american dj who said gays should be banned because the bible said so
http://drownedinsound.com/community/boards/social/4203124#r4952844
sheen also gives pretty much the same answer to a dj in the west wing too
class
religion eh? Nice place, wouldn't wanna live there
When was the last time someone flew a plan into a building based on the teachings of the old testament?
Erm...
Bloody international architects...
^ Very strong posting
You can't blame a religion for what people do in its name.
Thousands of atrocities have been committed in the name of all religions. Duh!
...
if you're insinuating what I think you're trying to insinuate, then I cant really be fucked to spend time pointing out how wrong you are. Go read some stuff.
bringing up someone's dad who went to jail for pacifism 7 years before your birth
and left home when you were 10 to leave your family in poverty...real class on display there.
that bit about guided tours of the Lake District
just remembered
:DDDDD
A bit of a wasted opportunity really.
It was a 45 minute long episode of Trisha to start with, the nearest this country has got to a public hanging since 1868. I think the issues of immigration, adopting other religions' traits and race all needed to be discussed from the off obviously, but that was just a slanging match until the question about Jan Moir's Daily Mail column.
A normal question time would have seen a lengthy discussion over the Postal Service strikes yet these never got touched on and it would have been interesting to see how Griffin had dealt with some ACTUAL political policy discussion. All we got was a lot of finger pointing and some verbal abuse. As far as I'm concerned Griffin is obviously a slimy chameleon-like character and a protest vote or not, I cannot fathom why people voted for his party. HOWEVER, he's here and his party is merely a physical manifestation of most of the country's fear that Britain is overcrowded / not creating industry & jobs / a nation without an 'identity' (whatever that means) / leaderless.
The whole panel acquitted themselves poorly. Straw was downright embarrassing, resembling that blonde haired character from the Thick of It and bumbling through 6 minutes of verbal diarrhoea without giving us any answers to a very pertinent question: "Isn't the BNP existence down to your poor, 12 year track record on immigration?" Greer was fairly likeable and knowledgeable about ice ages but out of her depth and a bit of a spare cog I felt. Huhne came across well in parts, like a nit-picking Giles Brandreth at others. And Warsi dealt well with some issues, making me shocked to discover she was Tory, and seemed to disappointingly 'tow the party line' on many more.
I reckon pretty much nothing will have altered after that. Some people will still be angry at the BBC for hosting the BNP, some will say 'fair play' to them. Some people who feel Griffin is STILL not being allowed to say his piece will likely have not changed their mind, and may dangerously be feeling they need to explore more underground avenues to get their messages across. The people that hate the BNP and all that it stands for will get to have some cheap laughs and feel smug for 24 hours or so.
But most damningly of all, the general voting public will now merely have no faith in 4 political parties, as opposed to just 3.
The immigration issue was never going to go well
The main three party representatives were torn between attacking Nick Griffin's own line and attacking each other's. Straw couldn't do anything other than say no to the question - he couldn't very much say "yeah, our policy has been a bit shit, hasn't it?" - but failed to mount any kind of defence at all.
Warsi dealt with it fairly well except for laying the blame solely at Labour's door, although I'd rather that the Tories went for a system that judged the benefit to the UK rather than a black and white quota, and just went for a silly "plague on both your houses" stance.
Griffin could have done far worse, but at the same time didn't come off too well. His complaints about not being allowed to answer some of the points put to him (not entirely unfair) are somewhat negated by the fact that on many occasions he was unable or unwilling to answer them, yet the barracking that he was given, the scale of protests outside the BBC and the ridiculous stuff like calling him Dick Griffin are just going to reinforce the view that it's the BNP vs everyone else.
at what point did warsi say anything about a black and white quota?
horrendous - this didn't actually happen, did it?
the points based system is probably actually racist, in that it bars anyone from moving here and making opportunities for themselves when they didn't have any before, but superficially it's probably the way forward so there can't be talk about 'capping' numbers (as straw said, that's unfeasible)
I don't think he meant
black and white as in skin colour.
oh okay
ha.
embarrassing.
yeah, black and white as in
only 5000 Americans can come in this year, and not one more. Never mind if the 5001st person to apply is a much needed specialist in a particular type of surgery.
The point system isn't much better - I'm not a fan - but given that we're having a method of controlling immigration regardless, I'd rather it's one that at least ensures that the people entering the country are contributing something rather than a luck of the draw thing that's doesn't even pretend to be anything other than based on a person's country of origin.
The 'Dick Griffin' moment
was a particular low point. Just a bit embarrassing.
I think you can be black and white about placing a cap on immigration.
Jack Straw made a point saying that you would have to limit the number of births etc. I don't really agree with that.
It's true that you couldn't have a completely strict one out one in policy (whether you're talking about vaginas or national borders), but that doesn't mean you have to go completely the other way and let anyone in.
I think we have got to the stage (or at least heading there very rapidly) where discussions of an immigrant's 'worth' to the economy or society must take second place to the more basic question of where are they (physically) going to go? It becomes a question of space and resources: if we don't have enough of either to support the populus within our borders, then the only solution is to place a cap on newcomers. This is not based on colour or creed but on a sense of practicality that disregards these things.
True, the system can not be perfect, but under the circumstances a not wholly effective system is better than no system at all.
Bloody hell, I expressed an opinion.
The mask is slipping...
Yeah, sort yourself out
I thought it was pretty sad that Jack Straw used, as his main claim to be controlling immigration, that the points system has been introduced for Australian and NZ immigrants. Obviously I'm extremely biased on this, but a few points:
1. Australian and NZ people can't get benefits, nearly all work, nearly all go back home again after a few years, likely having paid far more taxes than they took out
2. The Queen is the fucking head of state of these countries but you now need a Masters degree to come and live in the UK? Can't become a republic soon enough as far as I'm concerned
You've made a mistake here.
We introduced the points based system based on how they do things IN Australia, we're not using the ON Australians. Well, we are, but we're using it on all other countries as well.
We poached they're immigration system, rather than inventing the system ourselves and only using it for Australians.
My bad
I thought it was far too tiny a fix to bother bringing up as slowing immigration.
I'm a little bit touchy about the whole thing unfortunately
Given my inability to write in the above post, i'm surprised you had any idea
what I was on about.
Surely though
if you're judging someone's 'worth' to society, and that now seems to be accepted as the norm pretty much across the board, then to limit immigration further (if you need to) then you simply raise the requirements?
For example, given the current points based system (which admittedly I don't know a huge amount of detail about), if the current 'pass' mark was 200, then you move it to 240. Less people pass, immigration limited further.
yeah, but whatever Griffin has to say about policy, no matter how agreeable he sounds,
is always already undermined by his 'masterplan' which despite the comedy element DOES actually exist because he's on Youtube going on about it. It's impossible NOT to talk about race - questioning him about his party's thoughts on the postal strike are pointless because they don't really have a firm, acceptable foundation that makes them viable as leaders of the country. Yeah, I wish he'd had more time to talk, but it was already proved early on (by himself in a quote) that any acceptable sounding policies now are a front for the party's racist agenda.
Bit of a damp squib after all was said and done
The Griffen seemed sweaty and shaky and pretty much a dead on physical manifestation of how you'd perceive a BNP member.
Jack 'I know this because of 30 years in my one third Afro-Carribean district' Straw had a par round - no more or less than I would expect from one of the most senior members of the government.
Sayeeda Warsi made a few good jabs but for the most part sounded shrill and humourless. But what I thought might have been interesting was to see David Dimbleby follow up on his question regarding her distaste for gay marriage. Drawing a direct parallel between intolerance of homosexuality and some of Nick Griffin's views would be drawing a false equivalence, but it's at least in the same ballpark and would have been an interesting thing to follow up. As it was, he let her waffle away about the older already resolved question and then give a smothering non-answer.
There were a few hotties in that audience
I also liked the mad shouty tramp man.
I love the questions that are so inane and pointless
that David Dimbleby doesn't even pretend to care and just shuffles his papers a bit and moves onto the next one.
One day I hope to deliver one of those inane questions.
^ it's those little Aldous moments that make Question Time entertaining
wtf did you chimps expect?!
Thought it went better than expected
Isn't it a good thing that we have crazies like Nick Griffin scuttling around the edges
of political legitimacy though? I mean it might hopefully shake a lot of politicians out of complacency and whilst the BNP are attempting to but anice face on for the sake of the cameras they are less likely to be going out stabbing up black people yeah? It's win win really.
so to summarize
after question time, nothing will have changed?
Pretty much
which is no bad thing as it was only the BNP who ever stood to benefit from the whole thing - they were never going to disappear after a bit of shouting on Question Time.
its good that nothing much will change......
it doesnt matter that they didnt really discuss much, it would have backfired if Nick griffin HAD managed to give a good account, as it is he appeared uncharismatic, incapable of understanding debate well, as rather unchangable, perhaps bnp support will not diminish, but there is little danger that it will increase due to their having their uncharismatic leader having a larger platform on which to speak
The panel was mostly OK.
Hell i even dug the troy woman
They did not ask the simple question though (that was relevant to the race issue)
they should have asked
"Are members of ethnic minorities allowed to join the BNP?"
if he says yes then they ask
"are you happy for this to happen? or did you only change policy to keep within the law? remembering that you are not only adressind this audiance but also your bnp supporters who are ALL watching the telly.....will you go on record as saying 'I am glad and would welcome people of all colours to join the bnp?"
because i dont think he would be able to answer than, and it would be important to get that on record, in his first very public debate.
good to hear they weren't excluding the Trojans
Yeah, Helen was a bit of a fittie.
So fit was she that her face launched a thousand.
doh
i meant one of your's
I feel like i look a bit of a 'griffith' over this
Helen, Trojan?
Agamemnon will not be happy
so basically you are saying that because helen came from another land she should not be regarded
as a fully integrated member of trojan society? even though she had, effectively, burnt her bridges to safe return to whence she eloped from?
;)
:D
I really wanted someone to ask him
after he had said about the indigenous population going back 17000 years
"how many of those 17 thousands of years were the indigenous population christian?"
(cos of his banging on earliuer about christianity)
Its almost a shame that the head of the COE wasnt on the panel, im sure he would have taken Nick Griffiths to task
Filed under Rabble Rabble Rabble
.
As I predicted, Chris Huhne came out on top (imnsho).
Well, second only to Chairman Dave, perhaps.
What are the odds of Huhne becoming the first Prime Minister for England?
On the basis of Cameron becoming UK PM. Scotland reacting to the Tory win by shifting towards independence just enough to instigate reform of the Houses of Parliament (but possibly not full independence). Labour going into meltdown/bankruptcy following their election loss and the new reforms. A new Left-Centre party emerging, replacing Labour/LibDems, fronted by yer man.
Something like that anyways. Staranger things have happened. The Red-Blue see-saw can't go on forever.
I'd say this is as about as likely as Bamnans RACE WAR.
I'd say that's about right.
I can't seem to get enough of the Huhne though. And I've not even voted LibDem for a wee while, either.
scottish independence seems increasingly likely
labour getting wiped but the tories not making inroads north of the border = snp win. cutting back seats in parliament means cutting back scottish seats. and oversubsidised scotland will probably be hit by the spending cuts more than other regions. seems like a recipe for independence.
dunno if a lib-left coalition will emerge though. and if we keep fptp the tories will be in power in england for the forseeable future.
except for the reality that
a financially independent scotland would really struggle and deep down most sensible scots probably know this
except that
a financially independent scotland would really struggle and most scots probably knowledge this, deep down
no wai dude. an independent scotland could be the celtic iceland.
bankrupt?
I disagree.
Huhne held his own okay but, even as someone who sympathises with Lib-Dems and dislikes the Tories, I'd say Baroness Warsi comfortably had the best night on the panel. Despite my previous dislike of her, Bonnie Greer wasn't far behind.
how can you dislike bonnie greer? she's always ace!
+ it did make Griffin look ridiculous
+ the tramp guy was amazing
+ i reckon the Dick Griffin guy got laid with the hot girl with the dark hair sitting two seats down from him. she was totally looking at him in that way while he was speaking, which, fair enough. if i was a gay or a girl, i totally would...
- why didn't anyone pull up the tory woman on the civil partnerships thing? she totally ducked the question and was allowed to. i think maybe they wanted to come off much more black and white rather and distinguish between mainstream and fringe politics, not wanting to admit that the BNP don't exist in a vaccuum and that there are elements of their policies within the mainstream parties too.
- if the other three parties had made more of a concerted effort and not insisted on each playing the whole thing for popularity, they could have seen him off far more convincingly
- Griffin got to play some cards that the majority of viewers thought obviously repellent or crazy (men kissing is disgusting, BBC is a far left conspiracy) but that will play very well amongst people of a certain mindset, of which there are more than you'd think.
- i don't think it was necessarily the right tactic to try and discredit him on technicalities or on the level of his honesty - BNP voters are angry, i really don't think his credibility matters to them, it's the seething hatred that lies beneath his message, which his voters are well aware of, however bad it might seem that they'd think that. they do, and they don't really care about the specifics. they did a good job of discrediting him on their own level, but he doesn't necessarily work on that level anyway. i'm not sure you can attack anti-politics using politics.
- in their own way, both Straw and the tory woman were every bit as evasive and lame duck as Griffin when questioned about their own achilles heels.
to be fair to the tory woman
i think you should actually consider her job title 'community cohesion' which implies that she is going to be about compromise (for good reasons) and smoothing over differences.....not making issues out of things, for the sake of 'cohesion', if she went around saying stuff that would automatically alienate groups that she is obviously meant to be helping to get close then she would surely be leting her remit down.
I think its fair enough for someone with such a title to duck a question where you are probably hoping she will lose out to one section or another......were you hoping that she would lose out to more radicalised people who dont like men kissing by saying that she did condone civil partnerships? or that she should alienate the cooperation of other sections by saying she didnt?
I would have thought that to try to make communities more cohesive one of your prime considerations would have been to avoid alienating sections by expressing personal views, this is not hippocriticaql if her sincere belief is that she regards binging factions/groups of populace closer together is more important than her personal beliefs on something that may not be that important to her.
I don't think she ducked the question.
She said she was against promotion of homosexuality in schools but wasn't against Civil Partnerships. That was an answer I thought. Not an answer I'd have agreed with but I don't think she ducked the question.
Straw was definitely evasive and too afraid of breaking the party line to actually state an opinion on immigration.
Griffin came off pretty badly, I think even to the people of that mindset you mention. I suspect his attempts at moderation might have lost the far-right whilst his homophobia, conspiracy theories and hopeless attempts to define "British" will have lost him any converts too. A bad night for him all round. You can talk about attacking anti-politics but Griffin is trying to come across as someone who does perform in the political arena and was discredited on that.
I think the good news last night was that he didn't come across as some sort of evil Nazi Psychopath but a confused, not particularly skilled politician who doesn't really know who he's aiming at or where he stands. Which is probably the most damaging thing that could have happened for the BNP.
he did go a bit paler and started shaking at some points though
like you could tell that he really wanted to say what he thought, but felt he was restrained from doing so by the invisible force of having to cover up his true words to enable him to get somewhere where there might be more chance of getting his ideas into action.......but thats the point,it was barely restrained, he was having problems in keeping hiself under control
And I think the contradiction is that the more he moderates himself in order to appear acceptable
the more he dilutes the far-right aspects of the party and the harder he's gonna find it to maintain far-right support.
I mean last night he said that he had no problems with people's skin colour, didn't want to kick people out the country and distanced himself from the Nazis and the far-right.
And whilst his reasoning to do that might be too get support rather than out of his personal beliefs, it doesn't change the fact it must make the BNP sound far less appealing to would-be far right voters. So, if he can't win over the moderate right to compensate for that (and the Tories pissed all over him last night) then he's gonna find himself alienated between two stools, losing support from all sides. Which can only be a good thng.
I think this was neatly summed up by
the bit where he essentially said, "sure I was pally with the KKK, but now they think I'm a sell out!"
Which was easily the best bit of comedy I've seen on TV all year.
Don't have much more to add
bedies the fact I thought Bonnie Greer was brilliant and don't understand the flack she's getting at all, her body language throughout was immense.
Yep, she was great
poised, articulate, intelligent. What's not to like?
Personally, I thought Nick Griffin came across terribly. Whatever though, it made for great, although a bit exhausting television.
You can arrogant to that list.
You can arrogant too list?
*you can add arrogant to that list.
And 'a bit smug' as well.
attributes you're better placed to identify
than me.
:D
you're meant to add a safety wink you fool
Your post is helping me
I think that the levels of smug in that studio were approaching highly dangerous levels.
there is a danger that it might merge with the cloud of smug from cg
and then they might combine with mandelsons permenant hovering cloud
she's allowed to be, she isnt a politician
she did go off on some tangents too, but then the opposition was hardly demanding of preciseness.
I know what you mean about 'arrogant' though.......but i think that that can be excused cos it might have been to try to establish an impression that she (a black woman) was an intellectual giant alongside a rather miniscule intellect of a white male, I think that arrogance is forgivable in this context.
She isnt a politician, just a human and therefore kind of can have her own personal reactions to gittishness and stupidity
It didn't feel as though she was attacking Griffin
as the others on the panel and in the audience were.
thats because shes clever and not a politician
i agree, i quite liked her.
she barely even looked at him, the body language was great. as someone mentioned, she did go off on one a bit but to me she came across pretty well.
once again the question tiem audience show themselves to be a bunch of blabbering, catchphrasing clap monkeys
for fucks sake....dick griffin...seriously. that guy was a complete twat. i'd be quite happy if griffin completely owned him after that. the lead guardian article said that the show was a victory for the audience...mental. came across as a bunch of smirking idiots who are only thinking about looking good for the cameras. 'you mr griffin are disgusting'....clapclapclapclpaclapclpaclpclapclap...'illegal war'.....clapclapclapclapclapclapclapclapclapclapclap. idiots.
there were two really good questions...one from a composed man who spoke rationally, eloquently and calmly and actually asked a question instead of just pissing out some feeble declaration...the other from a woman who asked the most pertinant question of the evening (is it hypocritical for politicians to lambast the bbc now after all the time they have had to combat the bnp but done so little) and they didn't even make the panel answer it.
the worst thing that could've happened if for griffin to be made into the pantomime villain, and that's exactly what they did.
panel were next to useless....mostly just easy point scoring. and where the fuck was bragg? being from barking where the bnp have got a seat, i can't believe he wasn't asked on.
dimbleby was class.
also, quite hilarious to see the tabloids running a mile from griffin today seeing as they're the ones that feed into his rhetoric and perpetuate the lies that get touted around with so many of the issues.and so it goes.
? doesnt the daily mail like him then? they seem about the closest in heart
i know...it's hilarious. every tabloid front page has 'THE MOST VILE MAN IN BRITAINzz!!11!'
and i'm completely sure the irony would be lost on them
Pretty good post
I don't think Nick Griffin looked like a pantomime villain though - he just looked like a slightly seedier brand of politician with a very loose grasp of facts and reality
i really think he did.
all the catcalls and suppossedly impassioned speeches from cooing audiences members was all he needed to feed into their 'poor us' mentallity. they feed on being painted as the underdog and the underclass, and the audience and the fucking imbecile protestors outside set him right up for the role.
the more he tries to make a point, the more deluded he looks...so hush up...let him talk, and soon enough he'll dig himself into a hole which you can easily call him out on.
fucking jack straw....jesus. what a waste.
there should be a name for the protestor that only attaches themselves to the high profile gigs
protest posers or something......i'm sure all of those t-mobile-sing-along-a-likes have been to barking and stoke on trent to campaign against the rise of the bnp...talking to voters, making them understand the flaws in their logic. they were so passionate they must have.
or did they just fancy a bit of banter after office drinks.
I thought Jack Straw's total inability or desire to answer
a valid question on immigration summed up the reason why the BNP are picking up votes.
It was the "treading on eggshells for fear of offending anyone with a straight answer" approach that is systematic of the government and this country in general.
As much as I disagree with BNP policies Nick Griffin did attempt to highlight the fact that there are people in the UK who are scared of the rapid change in the make up of the UK's population. You or I may not agree with the people who have the concerns but that concern never the less exists and needs to be addressed by the government and not ignored as the rise of the BNP will regrettably continue.
The only panellist who came out with any credit in my opinion was Baroness Warsi who was not afraid to get stuck into awkward issues whereas Jack Straw was the usual dithering wet lettuce that we have come to expect.
I think Warsi made that point much better than Griffin did though,
To be honest if I'd have been someone watching last night looking for a party that'd address my concerns on immigration I imagine I'd have thought the Conservatives rather than the BNP to be the answer.
I agree.
And that is what perplexed Straw so much. He initially was asked the question, faffed about for five minutes with a neutral answer that could not offend anyone and then was flummoxed completely when a member of the panel from an ethnic minority background answered the question agreeing that immigration policy needed to be looked at and addressed and that there are issues that people do have concerns with.
But as I say above, what could Straw have said on that?
"Yeah, our immigration policy was shit and a large part of the BNP's rise is our fault for abandoning Labour's old core values." He did a crap job of defending the policies that Labour have belatedly put in place, but you could see that he was holding back from being honest because it would have destroyed his own party on their failures on immigration.
he could have admitted that Labour have maybe under-estimated the
impact that their immigration policy has had on certain sections of the UK and maybe even have been honest and acknowledged that this failure had led people to vote for the BNP.
He'd have got the Labour party more credit than he did with the wishy washy cop out answer he did put forward.
If anything he will have re-established in the minds of people who have switched their vote to the BNP that his party has no intention of trying to win their vote back.
I think if we weren't reaching an election and Labour weren't so weak anyway
you might have a point, but there's no way that they can get away with showing extra signs of weakness at the moment - there's so many obvious ones anyway. To acknowledge that it's partly their fault that the BNP's share of vote has risen because that particular part of policy was so piss weak for so long would be political suicide.
surely with an election imminent they would be better served by admitting to any mistakes that they may have made
everyone makes mistakes but the only way people will trust them again is if they are honest and admit they have made a mistake. By just burying their head in the sand pretending every thing is hunky dory and being in denial that their policies have boosted the BNP will make them unelectable in the eyes of an large proportion of eligible voters.
After a first and maybe a second term perhaps
but the whole point is that they've had three chances to sort themselves out, to sort their policies out, and to do something about the country's problems.
If you accept that the level of immigration is a longstanding problem in this country - and even Labour appear to have decided that it is - then there simply isn't a credible defence for their inability to do anything worthwhile about it for the first 11 years of parliament (it was never a part of any New Labour manifesto and the first thing they did that could be called more than tinkering with what we already had was with the points system being introduced last year).
want to read something truly, predictably, depressing?
the bbc have your say on the subject...
http://newsforums.bbc.co.uk/nol/thread.jspa?sortBy=2&forumID=7149&edition=1&ttl=20091023121415&#paginator
never read comments sections on articles about the BNP
the BNP seem to mobilise their online presence to comment on any article BNP related. It wouldn't surprise me if they have 10 people pretending to be 100.
it does read like a bad parody
"I was amazed; No one on that program listens to any of the sensible comments made by Nick Griffin. The response he got just shows the intelligence level in this country. Someone needs to make some serious changes to get rid of the undesirables and scroungers."
that's true.
but at the same time, there's a consistent web presence that is often in support of the BNP. In places, like the Mail website, you find ambivalent people who are slightly more positive about the BNP than all the other parties with hundreds of thumbs up. And why shouldn't there be, depressing as it, Dis or your friend's facebook probably isn't the yardstick by which to measure the BNP's support.
I don't use DiS to measure anything in society.
I'm not saying that there aren't valid comments in there but there's fishy goings on when a post on the Daily Mail website spouting utter shit suddenly gets 2000 thumbs up.
Yeh. That's true.
I just think on the basis of last night, people can be too confident that 'The BNP got smashed' and no-one likes the BNP because their specific cultural areas were all unimpressed, when the floating voters are far less likely to be vocal, and far less likely to turn up to Question Time (in London) and it seemed as though putting all web support down to fishy tactics is maybe a symptom but yeah, some of it probably is false and scarily some of it probably is genuine.
Surely this..
reading through a number of them it does almost seem like some of the posts are almost repeated. I don't doubt there are a number of supporters for the BNP but reading through this really sounds like its written by a small number of people again and again.
well, it was never going to be eddyfying tv now was it?
can anyone honestly say that they turned on to watch question time thinking that it wasnt going to be a bit Gerry Springerish?
I never for a moment expected things like the postal strike or expenses to be the focus of the other panalists attention (or the audiance)
I personally think that question time is always a bit shit.....at least this was a bit funny, and a relief, to see that the head of the far right party in this country does not have charisma like oswald mosley or hitler.
it is a shame that people did not really get a chance to discuss what he really believes in.
Although one of the biggest laughs of the night was about when he couldnt remember or explain why he stopped haulocaust denying, it is true that although repellant it is possible for people with extremist views to become more moderate......it was difficult to tell how far with any moderation he might have truly come last night, cos all we could see was that 'he was hiding something unsavoury back' the problem is we were unable to see how big an unsavoury thing it was
So no it wasnt intelligent clinical disection of him last night.......I honestly believe I could have done it, in a one to one with him with an audiance, but that is because i would genuinely want to get out where he was exactly coming from, to get down to the subtleties of it....because i would ultimately want to prove he was misguided and wrong, to HIM.
Reading those comments...
...well I'm not saying Hitler was right, but sometimes you really need a cull.
He showed himself to be a tool, which was good
Particular highlight of idiocy is the "an almost totally non-violent KKK". Unfortunately Straw didn't seem to do that well on the immigration question. He should have been more assertive, either saying "no, we're in the right on this one" or apologised saying we've made mistakes.
The thing I don't like is some of the reporting on it saying they were bullying him. I don't think that was the case, but that kind of spin could well encourage some of those who didn't see it and are of the BNPish frame of mind.
Lynch mob, eh?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8322322.stm
I can see both points of view - you are clearly going to thoroughly question the ideology of such a controversial party, but he did not have a chance to comment on any wider issues. I dunno.
this puts last night into perspective (for me)
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/oct/21/detained-nigerian-girl-strangle-immigration
Was what Griffin said about Islam wrong?
I only caught a bit of the programme. I heard Bonnie Greer say "Don't you talk to me about the KKK", made me cringe a bit, went and made some ceral instead, much more interesting.
she probably has enough sense of history to know
that david duke and the KKK aren't alright kind of guys
Yeah, no shit.
Doesn't mean i want to hear her and some fat racist sit there debating it.
game. set.. and match!
http://s153139690.websitehome.co.uk/fuck%20a%20car.jpg
some fun newspaper headlines today
FUCKING DIS
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/gallery/2009/oct/23/nick-griffin-question-time?picture=354670686
He's borrowed that left eye from Tony Gordon.
http://tinyurl.com/yl697hr
that's a bit rich coming from the Express....
Good Work
This barf-worthy self-congratulatory Griffin hate by the gutter media is either gonna DiSsipate really quickly or, by some miracle, the hacks have actually 'turned a corner' (to use a corny journo phrase) and they're actually gonna stop printing absolute drivvel regarding racial issues.
Unfortunately, my money's on the former.
cassetteboy to the rescue (hope I didn't miss this upthread)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QAvkFS_cgk
Was just about to post this.
Good work.
oh god, every other fucking facebook status is this
GAH
mine is too
i just got pipped to posting it here and everything
And mine!
Are they ever funny?
Chopping bits of speech together isn't funny. Apart from The Apprentice one.
"Burnley residents dismiss Question Time 'witch-hunt' of Nick Griffin"
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2009/oct/23/bnp-nick-griffin-burnley-reaction
See if you can guess the point at which I lost it.
Was it:
"It was more a London audience than a national one. If it had been held up here we'd have had a better cross-section of the public. It would have been a different show."
A better cross-section of the UK by making it less diverse is definitely what it needed
Well, you could argue that the audience demographic didn't reflect that of the UK overall
But I think we're losing sight of the important issue at hand: HERBIE HYSTERIA.
Yeah, Herb.
He's my brother
in the black sense
"Young people were disgruntled too"
?
oh right yeah
HERBIE HYSTERIA
"Herbie Hysteria, an artist of Asian origin who does street installations"
HERBIE.
HYSTERIA.
god
for once, griffin is completely spot on.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8322322.stm
the show was biased against the BNP
but that's cos most of the country hate them, so i'd say it represented the public quite well.
I must be the only person in Britain who warmed to Griffin that night
In my minds eye, he's been reduced to a cuddly member of the Frog Chorus.
Just Found this on viceland
http://www.viceland.com/wp/2009/10/cassetteboy-vs-nick-griffin/
quite funny, casstette boy to edit next question time!!.