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Bus passes going up 20%, yeah thanks
we have the third most expensive public transport system of any capital city. only syndey and stockholm beat us. and that's before the price hike!
harru was comparing London to.
other british cities will charge £15-25. most around For that londoners get bus and tubes and 24 hour services. do you get overground trains as well?
A £15 travelcard anywhere else would only usually cover one company, most cities will have at least 2 bus companies for a start, that's before you add in trams and local rail and he fact that all transport stops at 10.30 at night.
And the buses stop around 11pm Mon-Thur & 3am Fri-Sat.
london has a population of 7 million, of course it's infrastructure is more effecient than those smaller than it.
london should be compared to other international cities, most of which have full tube service all night and for much less cost.
the economist has a comparison graph that sums it up pretty nicely. http://tinyurl.com/yztc75x
a single 10km (3 or 4 zones?) journey in london will cost as little as £1.20
and the most you would pay for a 10km journey is probably £4.
as to the chart, it's based on an average - picking out specific journeys is pointless, unhelpful and impossible to compare.
finally what journey were you thinking of for £1.20? because i can't think of one...
without putting two extra tunnels in for each line. That's the only reason other cities can do it... maintenance on one while the other's being used.
Can't we just say '£1.20 for a dead long bus journey? That's not too bad. And I don't have to ask my mate what stop we're getting off at, I can leave WHENEVER I WANT' and be done with it.
Because the obvious riposte is: "Of course it's cheap to travel in Delhi. Everything's cheap in Delhi."
but that doesn't explain how zurich, tokyo, paris and new york are so much more cost efficient.
are their conservatives more efficient than our Conservatives CG?
“However, the mistakes of the past and the current economic climate have conspired to present us with a huge challenge.”
The mistakes of the past like scrapping the Western extension to the congestion zone and the Chilean oil contract, eh?
the lifting of the plan left roughly (I can't remember the exact figure any more) a £50m black hole in the budget - not too far off the £70m hole he claimed needed filling when he came to power.
that revenue from the scheme would have exceeded £55 mill. yes it never actually came into effect but boris had to specifically cancel the programme. no money was lost but nothing was gained either, and now the system is inconsistent in who it effects.
You can't claim a black hole inherited from your predecessor, when he's actually budgeted for income that you've decided as part of your own policies not to. Boris created a large part of that hole, not Ken.
Awful, awful man
The point is that Ken had a plan based on things like that to pull in extra money.
If people didn't like it (and I'd imagine all those who wanted to scrap the extension would have voted to scrap the Congestion Charge completely if it had been offered) that's one thing but to remove two areas of funding and then claim we're in the shit because of mistakes of the past is just being a cock.
He simply never had a plan to replace that funding.
Perhaps basing future budgets on a scheme that so few people were for WAS a mistake
You can't have it both ways with this. Ken lost the election so you can say people weren't for it but then you can't blame a lack of funding on him when if he'd won it would have been budgeted and clearly wanted by Londoners on the basis of his win.
You can blame him if you think that the budget he put into place and the means for funding it were no practical or realistic, innit? That's politics for you.
The funding was practical and realistic. It was just rejected by Boris on the one hand because of knee jerk assumptions about socialism and on the other because he knew it would get him key votes. He should have had alternative funding in place.
because of the effect it would have on local businesses.
The A1 Red Route wiped out a bunch of businesses on the Archway Road, all of them owned by working class people I would think, but it did serve to improve traffic congestion.
Sometimes things have to move on. I'm sure you're quite prepared to talk about 'tough medicine' or 'bitter pills' or whatever if we get on to the subject of the Shadow Chancellor's budget.
no study don't since it's implementation has been able to corroberate the suggestion that the C charge has had an impact outside the line of normal market forces.
even if it had, why would it be fair to impose it on central and north london and not the west?
it starts at Euston road.
i really dislike the use of the term "west london" when describing the extension. it was, for sure, a western extension, but it was not on west london per se - more the western side of central london. an area that has large amounts of congestion and a lot of public transport.
also the zone barely affects the people who live within it - they get a 90% discount!
it's not like the area is lacking in public transportation.
He promised a consultation, and we actually got two. One was scienfically done by TFL and showed that there wasn't a significant preference amongst the population either way. Another was done by the mayor's office and was skewed by an overlarge proportion of minority fringe groups and locality due to being informal. That was the one that showed an "overwhelming" majority in favour.
In the survey done by TFL, more wanted it lifted (41%) than kept as it was (30%) but another 14% wanted it kept in a modified form - 44% were in favour in principle. Neither overwheming evidence in favour of it, not a majority.
As you say, 41% is still greater than 30%. Personally I had no strong opinion on the matter and I do think that not enough consideration is given to the fact that small(er) businesses find themselves in a much more precarious situation now than they did when the western expansion was first mooted, which is bound to have had an impact on 'popular' opinion.
I'm not a fan of price hikes and I'm not even that much of a fan of BoJo. It was more a reaction to Theo's seeming assertion that mistakes weren't made under Livingstone.
The point is that the budget would have been there. Maybe small businesses would have been affected but I don't think that's enough reason to claim the western expansion is necessarily wrong.
I think if you asked people about motoring matters in the capital you'd find they're not only against the congestion charge but against red routes, clamping, traffic wardens, etc.
Couldn't argue that Ken didn't make mistakes (see promoting unfunded transport improvements quite so heavily and setting targets that weren't just stretching but basically impossible to reach), but this shouldn't really be about Ken vs Boris anyway - only the claims about 'mistakes of the past' have turned it into one. The only point to be made here is that a fair proportion of the price hikes are due to Boris' own policies and the economy. You can't blame Boris that less people are travelling on the Tube and buses, but he should take part of the blame based on expensive policies such as the bendy bus saga (love 'em or hate 'em) and the decision to lift the WEZ.
Also, the "overwhelming majority" thing is a quote from Boris and his argument in favour of lifting the WEZ. I'm aware it's not part of yours :)
and realise three or four posts in that I don't really agree or disagree with what everyone is saying. I just find the whole 'BoJo is a cunt' thing as tiresome as the hero worship he recieves.
Why are fewer people travelling? I'd never have guessed they were. The central line is still a mare...
less people going to work / more people walking or getting the bus or cycling to save £££
or is that just single journeys?
I'm not going to be affected by it according to this, as I buy a zones 1 and 2 weekly travelcard: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/hi/pdfs/15_10_09_fares.pdf
even boris isn't going after them.
public transport price rises always affect the poor hardest because it's an unavoidable expense - money that has to be spent regardless of circumstance. why isn't boris going after unnecessary car users?
It’s ridiculous that he can make £5bn of savings, is wasting money on the ‘A Bus for London’ project and still wants to whack the prices up so much.
To top it all off, he’s still laying into the previous administration (read Ken). Boris, you’ve been in charge over a year now, so please blame yourself and your cronies, no-one else.
As someone who visits London 3/4 times a year and uses the tube a fair amount when there - say a day or two zone 1-6 travelcard each time, would it make sense to get an Oyster card next I go?
J Arthur Gowman III
Paper tickets work out more expensive, regardless of how many journeys you make.
Even if you visited london 3/4 times in your lifetime it would be worth getting an oyster card
but I think it's a deposit as opposed to a charge... I may be wrong.
Or there always has been as long as I've used them
at one point, I certainly got a couple for free.
And it is a deposit so you can get the £3 back (if you really want to) when you leave the city.
I have never paid to get a new oyster card.
them for years - had to pay to get my first one. Replacement cards are free if your card stops working.
AND you'll have a credit card.
Why not put everything in one place and ruin your entire life for a fortnight instead! It's just like losing your wallet, only more annoying!
I just like the idea of having a card that tells me who I am on it.
AGE - 54
PLACE OF BIRTH - RWANDA
ID cards made easy.
you'll not only have several grands worth run up on your account, but not be able to get home again!
I have one because I was sent it automatically to replace my current Barclaycard. It seems there wasn't a choice or something.
My first one must've been one of the free ones and my second one was then there was that massive system faliure last year and nearly everyone's card stopped working.
Then give the Barclaycard to me.
just keep the fuck out of our town yeah?
Only less scary.
don't care :)