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I watched the phone calls from the towers documentary earlier, that was harrowing.
Especially that firefighter who they following by radio as he went up the tower as it collapsed.
It couldn't be more like a film if it tried
it was sickening.
gnarly as fuck.
Will probably watch the rest tomorrow. Pretty difficult to watch even after seeing it a thousand times. It's the people jumping out of the windows that gets me.
and hearing the operators trying to calm them down, its unreal. Also the firemen just walking in, its so horrible.
I haven't watched any of these films until now.
I sure as hell have had no inclination to relive the experience since then.
I can remember exactly when and where I was etc when I heard but I just didn't understand how serious it was or anything.
is all I can say really. But I remember getting really sick of the constant replaying of the planes hitting the towers etc on TV very quickly. It all seemed so gratuitous.
My mum was crying loads, and my me and my dad were just watching it on tv. When the events were unfolding the media were just running with whatever rumours they heard. At one point there were '10 missing Jets' and 20,000 people dead. I honestly thought that there would be something happening over here straight away. My girlfriend at the time had a cousin who worked in one of the WTC buildings (one that wasn't hit).
was that a real fear at the time?
...but when something like that happens, as crazy as that, as unpredictable as that then it all goes out.
I sure as hell don't remember anything like that
Or maybe I'm mixing it up with 7/7. I'll check.
were told to go home, and everyone in the states was convinced they were next. My sister was at Disneyworld of all places and there were rumours there were dozens of planes aiming for everywhere.
I was like 16 and unwise
a litany of idiot famous people who wouldn't fly for a short while after September 11th.
on Friday 14th.
Stiff upper lip and all that.
and unless a plane was within the radar range of an airport, it had to be listed as unacounted for. All but four of these planes 'checked in', but you have to remember that once a plane was in the air, there was the real fear that any of them could have been hijacked and was headed for a target.
and there's radio silence. Every time a plane winked out of radar range, everyone was praying that it would reappear again.
There were reports of car bombs on Capitol Hill being repeated for hours after the events until someone realised they'd never happened. It's interesting reading back the actual trail of events - flight 93 was first reported as hijacked and being traced while in flight long after it had actually crashed.
Not only the way they came down so uniformly, but the fact that they came down at all.
Oh yeah I suppose all it'd take is for the section above where the plane hit to collapse down into the gaping hole and then the weight of that would cause a domino effect ah yeah I get it now.
...you fly a passenger airline into a skyscraper.
They had siren things so the other firemen knew of their whereabouts. It's so eerie.
that hole in the side of the building.
that guy covered in dust appearing out of a cloud of... dust. totally surreal.
but I must say there was an appalling amount of adverts in that. At one point there was one every 9 minutes.
Amazing documentary though.
I lasted ten minutes.
and there WILL be more stuff like this. It's fucking crazy
....all I kept thinking was ''I've missed the best part''
Jesus. Like Athene, I was a young'un when it happened (11) and remember seeing bits on the telly that day, understanding that something monumental had just happened, but not fully grasping it. Seeing some of the footage a few days after it still felt completely unreal. I remember there being a pull out in my local paper that just had this utterly amazing picture of the second tower being hit on the front. Since then I'd not seen any of the footage whatsoever.
I dunno if it's right to describe a programme like this as "greatT but I can't think of any other word to describe. Utterly compelling viewing. That shot of the second tower falling was mindblowing wasn't it?
But as a pretty isolated event, it makes you realise how lucky we are (generally speaking) in the times in which we find ourselves living.
It's not like we're watching tv to see live footage from Japan of a mushroom cloud erupting over Nagasaki, or thousands upon thousands of men being mown down in the mud of Paschendale...
But the aftermath is arguably much more shocking.
Aside from the utterly dubious circumstances of the invasion, (as of 2007) 22% of Iraqi adults had one or more members of their household killed due to the War (48% died from a gunshot wound, 20% from car bombs, 9% from aerial bombardment, 6% as a result of an accident and 6% from another blast/ordnance).
The death estimate was 1,033,000 with a given range of 946,000 to 1,120,000. 1 million!
Then there's the 4,000+ members of the U.S. military. Plus 200+ from coallition forces.
Is the world a better place now than on September 12th?
I didn't watch the 1 hour long Channel 4 programme about about the ~3000 deaths that occurred in such cinematic fashion <facetious mode> and I won't be watching the 330 hour long programme about the million deaths that occurred in much less tv-friendly circumstances either.</facetious mode>
Or Pakistan, which is now the fashionable country to namedrop as the crucible of terrorism. Are we gonna invade Pakistan.
9/11 was extremely nasty. The response has been so much worse, on so many levels.
Or the people who died should be forgotten about because more people died afterwards?
Shouldn't we be looking at it to understand the emotional reaction from a nation that allowed those wars to occur because of what happened?
some of the immediate reactions in the film from those in Times Sq and around NY were 'Let's start a war. Now" and tbh it was hard to disagree with them, even with hindsight and being so far removed from it.
and watching the news that night, after the 'main event' had played out.
It was obvious that the US were gonna hit back & hit back hard. Pretty much everyone from around the world said they just couldn't understand why anyone would do such a thing.
Yet it was obvious to anyone with any sense of perseption. At the turn of the century the US was a massive behemoth of a superpower* that stood astride the world on a great many levels. That's gonna cause resentment. And with GW Bush at the helm, the US was all the more objectionable.
This DOES NOT JUSTIFY the actions of those who carried out the 9/11 attacks. But it does explain why they occured.
I beg to differ in the opinion that "it was hard to disagree with them, even with hindsight and being so far removed from it". But, again, yes, I can totally accept that many people thought that starting a war was a logical response. But I think they were very wrong. And I thought that at the time (from an admittedly remote standpoint**).
*The US still is a superpower, albeit bruised & to a lesser degree - diminished by GW Bush and his escapades, but buoyed somewhat by the Obama effect.
**Although I did have a friend who was in a tube train close to one of the London attacks and, whilst he thankfully survived, my position remained unchanged on the matter of revenge.
No, we should not ignore it. But that's not what I said, is it? I've acknowledged that 9/11 was horrific.
No, the people who died should not be forgotten about because more people died afterwards? Again, that's not what I said, is it?
Yes, understanding the emotional reaction from a nation that allowed those wars to occur is valid. But I'm not confident that an equally harrowing account from an Iraqi perspective will be put shown by Channel 4. If it is, I'll happily stand corrected.
And you shouldn't ignore my <facetious mode> tags.
It's not what you said, but your inference is that somehow the programme is invalid because worse things happened after it is it not?
"9/11 was horrific."
I guess what I objected to, in terms of the prog itself, was perhaps not the prog itself. Which, I admit, puts me in daft anti-Jerry The Opera territory already.
Backpeddaling? Me? If you like...
It's just that the C4 trailers for it (in my opinion) were seemingly putting a reality TV/filmic gloss on the tragic stories, and that sat uneasily with me.
So as I say, I'm not explicitly commenting on the contents of the prog itself. Just the billing of it and the playing on the inevitable carcrash* tv rubbernecker in us all.
*definite understatement/turn of phrase
So I can't comment on that, only on the show itself, which was incredibly edited using real footage to create a sense of what it was like to be there. Even though I knew what the consequences of that day were it was hard not to empathise with people in the street going "Let's go to war now" - even though they didn't know who they'd be fighting.
It was so surreal to actually see what it was like for people on street level - there was a shot of firefighters going off to the north tower when the south tower had already collapsed and the paralell to similar photos of soliders on the front line of WW1 trooping off was striking.
More importantly, 9/11 was one of the most important events of recent times - it has completely changed geopolitical make up of the entire world. We should know as much about it as possible, and in that regard the programme was a sucess
And, yes, they tend to do a relatively good job of reporting world affairs in a way that other channels do not.
The tone of the trailer and the billing for this prog rubbed me up the wrong way. And I can see how it would come across as me going overboard making that point. In mitigation, I thought I'd flagged a certain tongue/cheek element to my original post.
though a lot of that time was adverts.
Cheers for the correction.
It was my initial reaction before I formulated it into actual words.
I just get annoyed when people can't appreciate something for what it is without jumping on some kind of high horse.
Card rescinded. You're back on the field.
next up: dropping the atom bomb on Japan vs Japanese invasion of China and treatment of POWs.
And you're coming close to invoking a straw man tactic as well.
it was documenting normal people, like you or I, living through the event.
If Channel 4 elects to screen an account from an Iraqi perspective.
Because they aren't the same thing.
And as I said above - it has done pretty much every day for last 5 years. More 4 runs a season of films on the war pretty much annually on the anniversary of the war starting
is irrelevant unless a documentary about the bombing of Dresden is shown concurrently.
With everything that happened as a result of 9/11, the event itself has kind of been forgotten about, like we all feel guilty about being upset about it because it caused the war in Iraq.
It was so surreal, Ballard-esque almost
articles like "Hugging up 76,000%", "American Life Turns Into Bad Jerry Bruckheimer Movie", "Bush Sr. Apologizes To Son For Funding Bin Laden In '80s", the article about the man trying to sell all the excess Osama Bin Laden urinal cakes he had made up, the dildo company making one called The Star-Spangled Rammer to boost morale, how the rest of the US felt a brief sympathy for New York. Absolutely amazing. It's all here http://www.theonion.com/content/index/3734
'God Angrily Clarifies "Don't Kill" Rule' is probably the best thing they've ever done.
Also, I don't think I'd seen the fake TV listings before. Highlights:
A Nation Looks Around For Someone To Hit
America’s Time Of Trial: Who Fucking Wants Some? You? Do You? How ‘Bout You?
Dan Rather’s 83rd Straight Hour On The Air / Dan Rather Seriously Loses His Shit /
Medicating Dan Rather
The 100 Greatest, But, In Light Of Recent Events, Not As Important As Being Good To Our Loved Ones, Videos Of All Time
Clarissa Explains The Attack On America
Sharks: Terrorists Of The Sea
Fuck Everything, Here’s Some Zebra Footage
To say it was a fairly bold move to satirise 9/11 so soon after the event would be a pretty massive understatement, but they did such an amazing job of it. "America’s Time Of Trial: Who Fucking Wants Some? You? Do You? How ‘Bout You?" still totally cracks me up
Previous or Next?
"Twelve days after the collapse of the World Trade Centre, amazed rescue workers uncover an entire office floor that is still doing business. Despite falling 890 feet and being buried under 12,000 tons of rubble, all workers at Leeman Sachs Trading Inc are unharmed. They have remained at their desks since the bank's Tokyo HQ saw television pictures of the burning towers, called them up and ordered them to keep working. 'We were still sitting at our desks when we landed in the rubble,' said one dealer. 'I actually completed three transactions on the way down.' In fact trading at the buried floor has been so good since 11 September, the bank may sue the New York Fire Dept for digging them out."