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The Ashes are over. Here's a review...
So England did it (again). This victory was much different to 2005's though due to the gulf in class between that Aussie team, and this year's. England played some good cricket in places for sure, but we probably played just as much pretty awful cricket. As Potning rightly said, we won the key battles at the key times and credit to our boys for doing that. The selectors came good during the last test and should be praised for this, although it's now that the tough work really begins IMO. We're playing the best side in the world, on their home soil, this winter and will be destroyed if we turn up playing like we have this summer. The squad selection is going to be very tricky, and hopefully the selectors will have the balls to make some tough decisions. From this series, my starting XI (complete with question marks for unknowns) would be thus:
Strauss (c)
?
Trott
Pietersen
?
Prior
Broad
Rashid
Swann
Anderson
Onions/?
Strauss, Pietersen, Prior (who proved me very wrong with his excellent glovework throughout this series), Broad (who has showed some glimpses of awesomeness over the past 2 tests) and Anderson, pick themselves. Whilst Swann's last test batting/bowling display has saved him IMO (other than this he's looked pretty average). Rashid continues to impress in county cricket and should get the nod ahead of panesar for sure. Trott looks amazingly composed and will go on to be a great england player i reckon - as most south africans do. Onions has also done enough i'd have thought, although there'll no doubt be calls for harmison to make the squad.
Collingwood should never play a test for england again - he's just not up to it anymore (even his catching failed him yesterday). I'd also leave bell out, although i'm sure one of him and bopara will make the team. Rpb Key? I don't know.
WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS.?
Get the fuck out this thread you FREAK
For all the stick he gets
i thought Ponting was incredibly gracious in defeat.
As was Warne in commentry
Its normally the case that the Aussie sporting teams are gracious, its just there fans (sweeping generalisation) tend to come across and smug and arrogant.
i quite like ponting....he seems to get stick from every which way
when he shook hands with flintoff as he came up for his last knock....that was class.
Harsh on Swann
Englands most consistent bowler in the series I thought, plus he dismissed Ponting with that awesome delivery at edgbaston. Prior was also superb throughout
I agree that Collingwood and Harmy should retire. Sidebottom should come in, and I think Cook will still open. Not sure about who we have as back up
Shit, forgot about cook...
i really like him and would love to see him stay in and do well, but he looks so weak against deliveries just outside off - every bowler in the world would be confident of getting him out...
I'd stick with Cook
And have Michael Carberry in at number 3. Hell it worked well with Trott, why not another untested batsman instead of the same old ones.
Ian Bell has won the Ashes twice.
It's pretty funny watching Sky thinking that
whilst Nasser and Athers haven't won any... even Trott's won one.
He is the Djimi Traore of the cricketing world
Anyway, I think Harmison should end his test career now - I don't think he should have been selected in the first place, and hope that his wickets don't cloud future selections in senitmentality. He should go out on a high.
Colly must be dropped, and I would also say the same about Bell despite his 73. Cook should be kept, but consider putting him at 3 (he's scored a few tons there, and our best 3s of recent times started out as openers - Butcher, Vaughan) and bringing in Key (PLZ) or someone else (Denly? Moore?) to open. Trott looks very good to be number 5, and obviously KP at 4.
Prior impressed me immensely, it's great how much he has improved and he's clearly the no.1 test wicketkeeper now (though I think there are queries at ODI level). Guess Broad will be bumped up to 7, no real complaints there. Swann had an very good series I think (especially with the bat - so important given that we used two batsmen the whole time), but Rashid has to be on tour in the winter to push him and I hope he plays a few games. If we choose to use four bowlers, then Bopara may return at 6 or something, if not there is Carberry (one can only hope) or maybe Denly/Morgan (ODI series depending) to bat 6 or at 3 and everyone to shove up one place with Prior at 7.
Onions should be first-change from now on - think it was purely a pitch-based drop at the Oval. Reckon Swann/Rashid, Broad, Onions, Anderson, Sidebottom are our best five bowlers, with Onions edging out Sidebottom.
So anyway, I say this: Strauss, Mr. X/Cook, Mr X/Cook, KP, Trott, Prior, Broad, Swann, Anderson, Onions, Sidebottom for five bowlers, or drop Sidebottom for another batsman to go with four bowlers. Five is more likely I think - our bowling performances have been individual in this series (Flintoff's 5fer, Anderson and Onions, Broad and Swann) rather than as a group (see Headingley).
I think Harmison should be kept in for SA
The pitches will suit him.
Likewise I don't think sending Rashid to make his debut on the concrete slabs of SA and get pasted around the park is such a good idea. Save his debut for back in England next summer
Isn't Harmison retiring from international cricket after the Ashes?
Nope,
he said he was undecided but would certainly go to SA if selected... he was caught up in the moment of winning the Ashes.
He wouldn't have his mate Freddie with him...
probably throw a grump after a week or two. Wouldn't be the first time.
he said yesterday something along the lines of:
"If I'm picked then I'll definitely play, I always want to play".
...So you're not retiring then?
Well I don't know I'll have to think about it, but i'm not ruling myself out of the team I still want to play, I'll go to south africa if i'm picked.
....So you're not retiring then?
I dunno we'll see
He also said
"If I'd got that hattrick to win the Ashes, I'd be walking off into the sunset right now!"
I thought he sounded like he was going to retire
something about how he said it - maybe not wanting overshadow Flintoff/the victory or something
I'd keep Cook in,
granted he had a fairly crap ashes, but he's a good player and worth persevering with.
Big ask of Trott to step up to 3 against SA in his second game, I agree he looks very promising, but might be better left in the middle order for the time being.
Strauss
Cook
Bopara/Bell
KP
Trott
Prior
Broad
Swann
Anderson
2 from Rashid, Monty, Harmison, Onions, A.N. Other
That's a good batting side - all the way down to 8 or 9 depending on who fills the last 2 places.
Jimmy's going to have to step up and prove he can lead a bowling attack for a whole series on a surface where he won't have the same movement as in England.
well looking back a few years, some things in the team have been sorted and been replaced by other problems. we have a good tail-end that score a lot of runs, a reliable wicketkeeper-batsman and a solid opening partnership. also a player who can perform as captain to boot.
the glaring issue now is the middle order. pietersen has been promising more for a while now and it's time he stepped up, matured and took the number 3 role he should be in. broad should be tested at 7 but it's up in the air whether he can transfer his skills from 8 where his runs are a bonus rather than an expectancy. bopara is a fine middle order batsman and the fact he was ridiculously placed at three by selectors shouldn't signal an end to his test career. collingwood, i'm afraid, is starting to look way past his best. it's hard to overstate how impressive trott in fact was - a century on his debut in a final ashes test, and only the second england ton of the series.
if broad goes to 7 it gives the possibility of a second spinner - but a bowler in the mould of flintoff and harmison would be preferable. there's tremlett, mahmood, khan, but my god if they don't inspire confidence. i'd plump for tremlett because he's impressed at test level before.
what i like about this team and particularly andy flower is the understanding that while winning the ashes is a great achievement, it's not the same to 2005. then it was as if something was completed, now it should only be a springboard - australia are not the team they were and south africa, india and sri lanka are the powerhouses now. i really can't wait for the tour of saffers this winter now - i think this a good young team that can really go places.
team for south africa:
strauss
cook
pietersen
trott
bopara
prior
broad
swann
anderson
onions
tremlett
Forgot about Tremlett
Good idea, that. Though recently he's been injured a bit and has lost some pace, but that bounce he gets could be lethal in SA.
we're just cancelling bowlers out
if we take onions, anderson and sidebottom for instance. one and the same in many ways.
Dunno, Sidebottom has the anglething and Onions and Anderson bowl really well as a unit
But I do see your point, there really isn't much variety between English bowlers in county cricket is there? Tremlett would provide something different, that's for sure.
it's been a funny series
lots of players have been ordinary-looking in most games but had one or two crucial performances (so - bell's first innings this weekend, swann and broad this weekend, flintoff and anderson at lord's).
cook could do with a break - just to freshen him up a bit. Trott looks very very promising - great composure when everyone else (bar strauss) seemed to be wilting.
still, england won, and for the second time in four years. as strauss said "when we were good, we were just good enough".
the terrestrial channels need to somehow outbid sky and get test cricket back on proper tv
this is probably impossible but it needs to happen.
i will personally contribute £10 of my own money to see this happen.
£30 so far. let's see if we can raise £1000.
Not sure why at least the Ashes isn't on the Government's list
of sporting events that have to be on terrestrial, like Wimbledon or the World Cup etc. Maybe the ECB kept it off in the wake of the last Ashes to get as much money as possible out of Sky.
Completely agree
It's ridiculous that yesterday afternoon, as we were winning the Ashes, there was almost nowhere to actually watch it. All the pubs were showing the football, including the sports bar on City Road which you'd kind of hope would have the foresight to realise people want to see the cricket – I stuck my head round the door and there were three Spurs fans waiting for the match to start in a nigh-empty pub.
There was the big screen in Regent's Park, but I had stuff to do earlier in the day, so I only got there about 3pm – by that time they'd already hit capacity in the fenced-off area where they were showing it and weren't letting anyone else through the gates. There were a lot of disappointed people being turned away. I went home and listened to TMS instead.
I'd love to see it back on normal telly. I don't know what the solution is though, since Sky always seem likely to outbid terrestrial channels. In conclusion: GAH.
GAH indeed.
I dunno, I imagine the vast majority of sky sports subscribers do so mainly for the football, so can't see sky losing many customers if they lost exclusivity on the cricket, and there must be a way they could make it more widely available AND make more money? it's probably the only sport i would 'PPV' for.
I don't know
they showed the cricket on Sky Sports 1 and moved the football to Sky Sports 2 thus causing a lot of football fans who don't have all the sports channels to miss out. Plus the amount of advertising they had for the Ashes must have cost quite a lot.
well I don't know
I just want it to be on film4 again.
Can you have SS1and not 2?
yep
Yeah...
You can have 1 and 3 or 2 and Extra or all 4 I think.
I have the lot apart from SS News which I don't get as I don't have the news package
... even though it comes as standard with Freeview.
I had always assumed it was all or nothing.
They would lose me if they lost the cricket... I think
My Team/Squad would be...
Strauss
Prior/Denly
Cook
Pietersen
Trott
Bopara/Prior
Broad
Swann
Anderson
Tremlett/Onions
Sidebottom
Then take Rashid, Carberry, Key and possibly this woakes kid who appears to have a lot potential for the experience and the time with the coaches.
why are so many people knocking cook down?
what are you people smoking? we have a opening partnership that frequently hits 100 for no loss against good opposition and you're looking to change him for either a slogger or an unknown debutant. jeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeesus.
They are the most consistent openers in international cricket over the past year apparently
It would be crazy to drop one of them or split them up. If anything, Cook down to 3, but certainly not out of the team.
it's just ridiculous
cook is only a year older than denly as well so talk of building for the future is nonsense. denly is a future england player by all accounts but no way is he near to knocking cook out of his opening slot. the guy is still hitting consistent half-centuries and ably playing the new ball.
these are good points regarding the opening partnership however...
I have always prefered a right left opening partnership just to challenge the early bowlers line before the settle into a groove. I also like the idea of having someone more swashbuckling and I think cook will sove our problem at number 3 for a loooong time while putting trott there so early could dent his confidence as it has bopara and bell.
Cook is the logical choice. he has the temprement plays all types of bowling well and if someone falls he is used to the new ball if we are settled already he can just play his natural game.
I would never leave cook out of the team I think he is world class and a future captain. just think he could be a world class number 3
Cook would be nice at 3, I totally agree.
He's batted well there before too, a few tons I think.
For me the problem is: who will open with Strauss? I don't wanna split up that partnership without backup, otherwise we replace one problem position with another, and test opening is very specialised, which is why I think it's crazy to split them - why break up the one good bit in our batting lineup?
Selectors seem to hate Key, Moore has had about three innings in two years. Denley is in the ODI team though - if he hits some runs I'd expect him to tour at least. I'd jsut be reluctant to split up Cook and Strauss because they are so consistent... might need an injury to one of them for the selectors to try it, seeing as that's how Strauss and Cook got into the team in the first place.
Also
Steyn and Ntini/Parnell/Morne Morkel may end up ripping the openers to shit anyway, and would you want a new and inexperienced opener to face that?
I don't think Trott should be thrown in to No. 3
Even though he played great in his first two innings, it could ruin him just like it did to Bopara. I reckon KP should go in there. Cook needs to have a bit of work on his technique, a la Strauss (eg when the ODIs are on), but should still be in the team. Colly - just quite frustrating. He seems to need to think he'll be dropped before he starts to perform. His innings in Cardiff did basically keep us in the series.
Bowlers - Broad, Jimmy, Swann and Onions have definitely done enough to tour. I'd probably have them down to play in any game. Harmison - due to there being no one else who bowls like him, I reckon he should tour as well. Along with Rashid, who should be ahead of Monty. So my team would be:
Strauss
Cook
KP
Collingwood / Bell / Bopara
Trott
Prior
Broad
Swann
Anderson
Onions
Harmy / Rashid (depending on pitch, with Rashid in at 8 if he plays)
Also bring Carberry on tour.
Strauss and Cook, ARE, englands openers.
No way cook bats anyhwwere else, yeah not the greatest series for the lad but i think his average is still 43, not bad. All this talk of his problems being a technical issue rather than mental can surely be ironed out easily enough.
That stand at Cardiff was HUGE, without Colly's defiance and watching a million balls miss off, and that ridiculous decision by Ponting to put part timers in to bowl against Jimmy and Monty we would have lost. That last session was the most exciting and crucial of the whole series in my opinion. Every ball, more belief that a draw was possible, the permutations of how many overs reamained, if they took wicket they'd lose a couple of overs, nobody really knowing what was going on. Test cricket is class.
quick question
is there ever a time when theres no cricket? like, at all? where i can just relax and not have to have SSN invaded by the most mundane sportin the world?
i'll be happy then. so gald its over for another 2 years.
SSN contains nothing but the most mundane sport in the world: transfer gossip.
is this a joke?
i've seen them cut away from county cricket updates because darren bent couldn't find a tissue to blow his noise in a north london motorway stop.
thank god <3
but yeah, no one's answered this. is there a time i can really appreciate everything being good with the world?