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Just answer the question. If you've nothing to hide you've nothing to fear.
Dou you now or have you ever had curtains or blinds?
I probably thought I was when I was about 13/14
and bought me a wooly hat which is probably trying to take over my mind.
Though i did once accidentally donate a fiver to the socialist workers' party.
Billy Bragg would have been proud.
To answer the question i probably was leaning that way or thought it wasa good idea for about 6 months at 16. I think it's stupid now though.
You have though, you bloody communist.
I was just before reading this thread, currently i am not but i plan to be again when i am at a reasonable enough distance from this thread.
but then I realized the things I love - human warmth, technology, good music - would never be produced in a culture like that. So I thought, "Fuck em."
I saw an interesting discussion about Left defectors - basically tore most of you a new arsehole.
Anybody who can go from agreeing with the theories of Marx, Lenin, Gramsci, Adorno, Trotsky etc. (whichever way you were inclined) to believing it's a load of rubbish quite obviously was just a poser or never read into it much.
It's not surprising some people who challenge their belief systems change their minds as a result. But it's utterly healthy to challenge your own ideas and to question what you believe. It's ridiculous to suggest someone who changes their mind is a poser.
Personally I'm still figuring out what I believe. I believe in the left. I believe in the basic principal society has a responsibility to its weaker members and I believe in what's basically a set of socialist principles.
However I also increasingly believe sections of the left treat Marx etc. far too reverently and unquestionably and treat the writings of early Marxists with the same dogmatism as Christian fundamentalists treat the Bible. However society's changed a great deal since the books are written and some new thinking and theories are needed. The fundamental unavoidable problems are that the majority of working class people do not want a Marxist revolution and that most attempts as creating Marxists societies have failed after causing a great deal of pain, death and suffering in the process.
I don't have the answers as to what the "new thinking" would be, (much as I'd like to given that whoever comes up with it will become the most influential leftist thinker of the modern age) but I'm certain it is needed and that, if the left is to become a serious proposition again, it will be with a new school of thought that might be influenced by Marxism but will not be Marxism.
PS This was never meant to be a serious discussion thread especially. But fuck it.
But importantly this will do nothing other than to prove my point about dogmatism correct.
that or really is as sheltered as he's making out
and reflects their policies and views accurately enough for me to think he's probably a genuine poster. I could be wrong though.
I agree with you on the aspect of questioning the theories of Marx etc. I don't agree with every major historical thinker has said, but at the same time I respect them for being incredibly intelligent.
The only reason I claim they're posers is because they say they followed Marxism/Communism for 6 months, which is an incredibly short time to say you fundamentally understand the teachings of Marxism, but then turn your back on them. So, I cannot see any intellectual finding behind their change in points of view.
Also, the point about workers not wanted Marxist revolution is fair, but I'd disagree. The growing militancy of the 'traditional' working class (factory workers etc.) and the more contemporary working class retail, shows a desire for change. For example, due to closure of Thomas Cook shops in Republic of Ireland workers occupied their workplace for a couple of days, something you definitely wouldn't have seen two years ago. And, incredibly, recently during the Vesta's demonstration (if you don't know about it - the govt. tried to cut 600 green jobs because of "lack of demand" on the isle of wight, despite claiming to create 500,000 green jobs) dozens of these workers are now on tour of britain giving speeches and inspiring others to occupy their workplace if they face cuts and the NUT has had over a dozen workplaces asking for them to represent them.
There's definitely evidence that working class conscieness (sp?) is growing around the world at the moment, and I think the near future times will define the left in Britain. Sorry if this reads incoherent, but I find it hard writing in this tiny box.
being Marxist influenced, but not Marxist is complete rubbish. You'd just end up with Left Realism or some other shit theory which still binds us to capitalism. Anything that happens on the Left will definitely have to have a Marxist/Socialist Revolutionary basis or it will be unsuccessful.
Prior to Marxism nobody would have thought of Marxism as a possible political system - who's to say there isn't a far better system of leftist politics that's yet to be devised?
there were numerous thinkers who set the groundwork for Marxism. Marx was heavily influenced by Hegel and Feuerbach, and these had similar, but not identical, ideas to Marxism on the basis of which society should be set upon. So, I'd disagree, Marxist thinking has been around longer than Marx, the man.
Well, what system of Leftist politics would you suggest? I can't see no other direction for Leftist politics that would be beneficial or theoretically substantial. I am a Trotskyist, and believe a revolution has to come from below, not from an elite of professional revolutionaries, such as; Cuba, as this just leads to Stalinism in essence.
Look into buying Chris Harman's book - Revolution in the 21st Century, I have it and it's really interesting, it's about £4.
I don't suggest any system at the moment - my point is I don't know of a left-wing system that will work and that my belief is, in time, someone will have to come up with a completely new theory of left-wing politics. I don't know what that is - if I did I'd be the person who'd come up with the most influential left-wing political theory of the 21st century and would be talked of in the same terms as Marx in the future. As it stands, I won't be.
Obviously you would be interested in Harman's work. Personally I wouldn't really be - my previous experience of him he's too chained to old ideas to have the right idea how to shape the future of "revolution" or of the Left. I might take a look at it but given that I think the SWP in general are part of the problem more than the solution I'd be surprised if I found anything there that worked for me.
I see this isn't really progressing. But, I personally think your idea is flawed because I don't think a new ideology can be founded that is totally indifferent of Marxism, yet still represents the interests of the workers.
with the same brush as the SWP...
I was only taking about the SWP in terms of Harman.
I was just messing about. You seemed to take it really badly. You seem to still be taking it really badly. I'm sorry, Paul Hawkins from Paul Hawkins & Thee Awkward Silences. I never meant to hurt you.
I never took it seriously - the thread was 'cos I was bored at work and, for some reason, thinking about the McCarthy trials of the fifties. So thought I'd just post the basic question and see where the thread wandered off to!
PS my response to you on that PM was a joke too incidentally - I hope it came across that way...
I was giving you the benefit of the doubt, but then you came out with your "You changed my life that day, man!" BULLSHIT and I just couldn't take it anymore. With regard to me inspiring this thread, I think it was only natural of me to assume there was a connection, but I guess, in reality, nary a moment goes by where thoughts about communism aren't swimming through your head, so I'm willing to put it down to coincidence.
Now if you'll excuse me I'm just popping out to incite the Proletariat...
at the same time is clearly confused or "never read into it much"
Don't just cut bits out to suit yourself. Quite obvious what I was saying.
on a lads holiday in Zante, 2005.
I never did pull her.
It'll work f'sure
Nearly joined the YCL when I was 15. My dad wasn't too happy when the guy rang up and asked for me.
Not entirely sure what I was thinking at the time, but it was good thoughts, I'm sure.
Ideologically, anyway. I didn't actually do anything about it. It was for almost purely aesthetic reasons, though: I thought it presented the purist form of society and that that was enough for it to be a good idea. I still think it presents the purest form of society but I no longer thing that's enough. In fact I don't think it's anything. If it turned out that the best society was also the purest society, that would be nice, but nothing more.
mainly from a cursory glance over a history book.
I DID once drink in a bar with Che Guevara's face on the walls though.
this reminds me - when i was doing my history degree we had this incredibly tory dude in our specialism tutor group (was funny, nine lefties, one righty, and one fence-sitting tutor). he'd be really tory all the time, think he was quite high up in nottingham young conservatives or something. at one point, it came out that his hotmail e-mail address was started chairman, so we were all "did you used to be a communist?" he was like "yeah". we decided it was a craving for extremes that made him susceptible to far-left nuttery and liam-fox-tory-style nuttery
that actually wasn't that interesting a story
and then i realised that communism couldn't possibly work unless people actually wanted tow work and have a stake in their society. since communism is, ironically, a terrible way of persuading people that they want this, i stopped being a communist. i still believe in the ideals, i just think that the at the moment the methodology is wrong.
still, as a critique of capitalism marxist theory is pretty much spot on : )
we also left that same week. they wanted us to do work and stuff
change just to happen and then pat yourself on the back? I'm branch paper boy (h)