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Why isn't Lee likely to play? i just don't get it.
his record against England is pretty ordinary. Is Flintoff still doubtful?
it's a toss-up between Broad and Trott isn't it? Broad at 7 would worry me greatly.
does he bowl?
at an average of 45. So nothing more than an occasional bowler.
gets wickets but at an average of 50 odd.
Bearing in mind we have Collingwood and Bopara I can't see the need for any more of this stuff.
otherwise yeah you might as well go with another specialist batter and then a four-bowler attack.
And Trott for Flintoff. It is Headingley. The ball swings. Martin Saggers bowled incredibly there once against I think SA and swung it round corners. Sidebottom simply must play.
admittedly if broad plays at 7 it's a bit risky but swann and arnie sidebottom can both fling the bat around at 8 and 9 and jimmy anderson's looked useful in the long-tail stakes
it just seems horribly defensive to go with 4 bowlers
My thinking is that with Broad being nondescript this series, we have only really used four bowlers anyway and that swing has been our major weapon. Sidebottom brings more swing and some left arm variation. Should the ball not swing, he controls his line better than Harmison does... I just think playing Harmison just because he bowls a bit like Flintoff is a bit silly because he can't be trusted to keep the line and length. Though I am sort of basing this on it being overcast, cos if it is bright and sunny for 5 days then 4 bowlers is stupid. It's not really based on worries about Broad at 7, he has looked in good batting nick.
A spinner is useful anywhere to provide variation and if needed hold up an end. Plus he's got a knack of getting big wickets this series and can bat.
I'm going to answer your question then post one of my own, let's see how long we can keep this going:
-Because an intercostal injury is an absolute bugger to heal and they'd look pretty stupid if he pulled up after 4 overs and took no part in the rest of the game.
My question: HOW MANY DOUBLE TEST CENTURIONS DO WE HAVE WAITING IN THE WINGS FOR A KNOCK IN OUR HEAVILY DEPLETED BATTING LINE UP???? WHY IS ROB KEY NOT PLAYING????????????
NEED IAN F***ING BELL EITHER.
and they can't do this given the time-frame.
sorry (I dont hate it)
I just cant love it as much as everyone else seems to.
I know i should love it, and i can watch some
but i cant seem to get the same enjoyment as others can from it
THis is like me coming out about it.
I wouldnt dare tell mrs knees, shes mad about cricket
Setting it up for The Oval, where England will win and Mark Butcher will sing an emotional celebratory song from the balcony.
That can't happen. I have a ticket for the last day at the Oval but also a broken foot meaning that 95% I can't go. Whilst being signed off at home in front of the telly, we want to win the Ashes this test... please.
Are they all well disablist down there?
Not supposed to be on my feet too much and those stairs would be a bitch. I have a friend with the mildest of connections trying to upgrade us to somewhere with better access.
Also Trott in for Broad, so you will also get an extra batsman. Maybe.
that's the sort of tactic that's going to GUARANTEE a batting collapse. play for the win, not the draw!
Or does it not really matter when you're taking out the only man not taking wickets at the moment? I think an attack of Harmison/Onions/Anderson/Swann is still pretty darned attacking.
but you'd be bringing in someone entirely untested at test level whose only experience in international cricket thus far is best described as "unfortunate"
also, if Harmison does as is his wont and has a mare, you've taken out one unthreatening bowler who can bat well for one unthreatening bowler who can't bat at all and who excels in giving opposing batters confidence
it's jsut good common sense. the standard cricket team formula is 6 bats, 1 wickie, 4 bowlers. england have been living in a allrounder fantasy land for the last 3 years relying on a on-again/off-again flintoff, and it's time to stop.
this is especially true of a likely rain affected game at headingly. there will only be enough overs for 4 bowlers. two swingers (jimmy and onions), a spinner/partnership breaker, and if there's pace in the pitch big steve plays and if there isn't another swinger - sibo.
IT'S JUST COMMON SENSE!!
went down in the warm up - PLAYING FOOTBALL. Looks like Collingwood will keep wicket.
bbctms Morning from Headingley! Flintoff ruled out... BUT Prior's injured himself in the warm up and is a doubt. I see Collingwood has gloves on...
they didn't have any footage of him actually hurting himself.
Seem to injure infinitely more players than the actual 5 day games.
TIM AMBROSE: TEST BATSMAN.
And Clark is apparently in for Hauritz according to Cricinfo/Guardian. Double crap.
Good? Hopefully he won't crap himself up after 10 overs of diving down the legside. But this does mean that Ambrose won't play. Thank God.
I say Harmy in for Flintoff. can;t hurt, he's bang on form and we need an experienced FAST bowler to bowl non-swing (I think Anderson and Onions is quite enough of that). Siders isn;t fit or on form and for him to break down would leave us up the creak without a paddle.
Trott in for Bopara/Bell who have done little so far. Broad's batting at the tail might just keep him in it as the 5th bowler. Sorry if this is agreeing with other people.
I think however they'll pick sidebottom instead of flintoff and we'll lose by an innings and a hundred runs after the aussies put on 600+
Doesn't look too comfortable though
I'm so glad Hauritz has been dropped and Siddle stays in.
We could all be out by lunch at this rate.
Let's hope for a massive Ian Bell double century.
i hope all of you who requested this are enjopying themselves.
strauss gone and now bopara.
get boycott off TMS.
bring on Blofeld FFS.
the conditions for bowling are excellent, and if the new ball is weathered for another say half hour then bell and cook can start building a partnership.
bopara must not play three again - this is ridiculous, it's like starting from a position of 2 down. far too loose to be a number three.
and let's face it, the windies are the worst team in test cricket.
And a one-day series.
Still a sorry state of affairs.
Although Bangladesh are getting loads better (Shakib Al-Hasan ftw, mny oh my he is good). When Gayle decides to sod off to IPL forever and Chanderpaul retires, then they will be the worst team. Bravo and Sarwan cannot carry them.
I could google but it's better to try and dredge things up from my memory: there were only about three players who'd previously played test cricket, weren't there? And the rest were about 12 years old.
I reckon we should invite them over, put together an XI, get them smashed in Baker Street Wetherspoons and take them on.
one was Darren Sammy and the others were from Bridgetown Primary School Year 5 Maths. Though one of the 10 year olds got a 5fer and will clearly end up taking the new ball with Fidel Edwards in their next test. Hell, the Baker Street Wetherspoons itbox could give them a game!
Would he be a viable no.3 in future? I can't see Ravi batting there for the next series. I reckon he could stay in the team if he played at 6, when Flintoff has gone.
I reckon the selectors see Denley as the long-term no. 3, but there can be no harm in giving Trott a go there at some point. The man probably best suited to no. 3 is currently smoking in the changing rooms at Canterbury, ringing Owais Shah and together plotting to let the air down on Geoff Miller's tyres.
He has a really good write up for a series in Australia, where he was highly rated by the Aussies, but didn't he average about 20 there, which is hardly amazing.
Looks like we'll be heading for a small total. Need Harmy to have a really "on" day to help rescue us I reckon.
and he scored 222* in a test. He is consistent in county cricket (if not great this year), and deserves a final chance - hell, if Bell keeps getting more chances because of his county form and his general talent, then why not Key? It'd be nice to see an opener bat at 3, Butcher and Vaughan were so good there because they could come in at 10-1 and play properly.
Hopefully Harmy will smash a few with Swann, cos he certainly can smack the ball. And then he'll be 2004/5 Harmy and not the 2006 one.
Broad at 7? Bringing Harmison in for Flintoff without bringing in Trott as well to strenghten the batting, fecking hell. I know you have to play to win but this is suicidal. Bopara is not even close to being a number 3 test batsman, the selectors should man up and admit they made a mistake instead of persevering with him at number 3.
but at the moment he's batting like chris martin. EITHER one
but talent doesn't automatically get you runs and at this stage of his career he shouldn't be batting at number three, not at test level. It's like he's been put there just to fill a hole because that was the position in the batting order that needed filling.
they're having far too good a time...
we could've picked 11 batters and we'd still be up shit creek the way this is going
170 all out? (I'm being positive) Rain dance needed now.
looks like the spat is over.
agnew nearly threw up!
Cook needs to carry his bat by the looks of it (although that might by shortly after lunch)
before saying that
CMON STEVE HARMISON!!!
DON'T MAKE ME FUCKING LAUGH!
Have you all forgotten the last few years! Yeah, let's get him in the side! He's playing so well for Durham!
And what happens......? 82mph long hops chucked down the leg side. Scowls. Perspiration wiped on sleeve. Ball thrown to Collingwood instead.....
until he gets confident and tries to reverse sweep someone.
I remember ages ago expresing SHOCK and DISMAY that Bopara was picked as a test no.3. 'He's a lower middle order player with a bit of medium paced bowling' I said. OH NO everyone said HE'LL BE GREAT!
Oh and Ian Bell can Fuck right off. Again. It baffles me that we played him at 4. There would be a case for putting him at 3 because he's got the technique if not the temparement batting him below Bopara makes no sense.
Personally if you HAVE to bat Bell I'd put him at 6 because THAT'S THE ONE POSITION HE'S ACTUALLY SCORED ANY FUCKING RUNS AT ALL IN!
and having Bell at 3 (although not ideal) is miles better than playing Bopara there. Bopara should be batting at 6, he doesn't have the defensive technique or air of permanence that's needed for someone who'll probably have to face a very new ball more times than not. Could anyone see Bopara as an opener? No. If an early wicket goes down he essentially becomes an opener. I agree that Bell's problem is more mental than technical.
It isn't becoming of a cricket thread
I'd put money on it.
Now I know. TO stop us all killing ourselves. Let's just pretend this isn't happening.
In comes our Saviour: Stuart Broad.
in before lunch.... queue squeaky bottoms, i wonder what reception ponting will get bearing in mind he will be in around tea time just after a few boys on the western terrace might have had a few by then!!
what a shower of useless fuckwits
actually I reckon that Harmison will make 10 after lunch, atually look ok then try to reverse sweep Mitchell Johnson or something.
"we'll lose by an innings and a hundred runs after the aussies put on 600+"
yikes...something definitely needs to be done about our top order...let's hope the tail wags again. I think Bopara has more worries than Broad at the moment.
they both look good to score 20 or 30.
They both fill in the overs with some nice seam bowling that doesn't take any wickets.
They're pretty much interchangable.
I would love it if we could beat them. Love it. He’s gone down in my estimation [Ricky Ponting]. Australia haven’t won this yet, I’d love it if we beat them.
"watch your fucking elbows." it's an insult to fine australian sledging. bumble's on form though - "going to LA tomorrow, Lower Accrington. no really, going to the USA next week. the uther side of Accrington." classic bumble.
anyway the argument that we needed one more batsman is insignificant now - we need about 10 more batsman.
it's the least we deserve for weeks of journos writing off the number one team for the last 10 years.
Bit high maybe.
And now he's out.
After lunch: Swann and Prior get a massive 10 run partnership, a six and a four and a bowled through the gate.
can we start again... pretend it didn`t happen
see if we can get a couple of overs at them before lunch.
His economy right now is ONE POINT TWO. Fuck.
You're the Geoffrey Boycott of going to the pub.
at my stage, i don't need this.
It's all over by tea
now we have
you never say things like that.
that was your fault!!
anyway cheer up. Harmy's in now. Just think, only half an hour or so and then we'll get to see him bowl some utter fucking filth.
How many overs of Harmy filth do you think it'll take for them to knock off this 100 odd? I'm going to say 12.
I hope Harmison knocks them over just to spite you.
You don't like Harmison. We get it. It's getting really boring every time I open this thread, oh it's another post from you swearing in bloc capitals about Harmison. Pack it in son, it's getting tedious
Just found two lardy cakes at the bottom of the hamper, Beefy already claimed one !
I think it'll be more like
Guess which song from the Cure album 'Disintegration' I am now singing to myself?
STAND UP IF YOU'RE ONE-NIL UP sing the Western Terrace!
Jimmy continues his duck less streak!
All is right with the world!
in cricketing terms.
golden duck is out on your first ball.
golden duck = out for 0, first ball faced
king pair = out for 0, both innings in a match
listen, i've only just really vaguely figured out how the scoring works so, go easy on me please.
this is a result of having a widescreen tv directly in my eyesight all day every day at work with Sky Sports on with the Ashes.
if a batsman doesn't score anything, and gets out, he's scored 0, which is a duck.
He's out, for a duck.
people getting 0 i mean?
obviously the specialist bowlers are less good at batting (some of them hilariously so), so for them, yeah.
you are at your most vulnerable when you just arrive at the crease (you haven't adjusted to the light or the pace of the pitch, you're worried about forgetting your box etc etc) so the ball most likely to get you is your first one.
I've got TMS and stuff but is anyone watching this who can actually say "yeah well the pitch is bumpy, bouncing randomly, and it's swinging too, so we're going to bowl them out for about the same"
or are we just shit?
but don't listen to me, i know nothing.
it's mostly caught behind or at slips, no bowled or lbw. which either says that there's late swing, or we're driving wrecklessly and edging needlessly off balls better off left. remains to be seen really.
But a lot of it was our batsmen dangling their bats outside offstump and saying 'hi swinging ball, here's the edge of my bat'. The ball was swinging and they were just bowling a good length... we can bowl as well as they did, but we have to bowl a good length. Which means Harmison must bowl like 2004-05, not like in every test since then.
harmison caught one on the helmet as well. but these are tail-enders so it's hard to judge.
two fours off anderson's first two balls. mercy.
It's nibbled a bit but not hooped around
We've been driving recklessly
good aggression from anderson at the end of the over.
Wikipedia says there is "some dispute"
first ball of the first inninngs of the first test of a series
common sense says there is " a truck load of dispute"
has that happened?
we did end up in 3 figures
when he passes a car crash aren't you?
And they start with two fours from short wide balls.
second ball 4
2nd ball of the over and guess what Harmison is chucking it down the leg side for 4 wides. Sigh. Christ.
Oh and now he's got a wicket.
I TAKE IT ALL BACK*
*n.b I may not be taking it all back
There's a joke
There's some banter
And then there's being a prick
is absolutely nailed on to get at least a ton now, after that
Stop being an old woman!
...I don't think the booing made our bowlers bowl tripe. Unless they thought it was for them which, judging by their intelligence when in action, is distinctly possible.
Sunn O))) should sample it
"you don't know what you're talking about!"
god, someone needs to put a contract on him...
"well, theyre so used to playing on flat pitches"
"you call this swinging around, if it were really swinging around they wouldnt et 50 the way their batting..." fuck off
England threw away their wickets.
I love Boycs. He talks a bit of plop and he smacked his wife, but most of the time he's on the money. He sounds repetitive because England are always making the same mistakes
First rule of batting: don't play at a swinging ball on a good length outside your off stump. If this was against Wasim and Waqar in their pomp at a swing-friendly ground, it would have swung lots more and had our batsmen batted like that, it would be under 100, if not quite 50 all out.
it was some sort of different game, i do realise that he is right, but he is so condescending
You couldn't bat with the aggression modern batsmen do
210-1 at the close
short and rubbish
useless clowns, what're they playing at
who has now sadly gone absolutely batty, yet still gets wheeled out into the commentary box for a laugh
TO MY FACE (and the faces of the rest of the countdown audience). Now he's dead.
but he's been bowled by a national security number.
ahh yes, because i love tuffers and blowers.
it just got worse. I thought we had got past this kind of uselessness a few years ago (apart from the fuck up against the windies).
Doesn't sound like they've been that threatening with the ball either.
is this what we've got to look forward to when Freddie retires and KP buggers off to IPL.
Sounds like they're bowling like turds even though the conditions are in their favour. FFS!
Ponting has a hateful fugly little face and therefore I think all booing of him should be encouraged.
I want us to get him out not just because of the runs he's scoring (it's hopeless now anyway just imagine what Michael Clarke will do to this """Attack""") but because I don't want to see his puggy face
I'm so bored of the sight of Mike Hussey's objectionaly ugly little face. "Mr Cricket"? "Mr Arse" more like it.
It's a bit like whoever was betting on next batman out at lords.
That Michael fucking Clarke better get himself out soon. Christ he's a unloveable cunt. Look at that fucking tatoo on his forearm. God I bet he thinks he looks sophisticated. Bet it really says 'Pillock'.
would take me back to all square for the day.
Super Stuart Broad!
Well at least it should slow down the scoring rate anyway.
This should be posted any time Ponting is dismissed.
After several minutes Prior catches it!
The crowd goes wild!
Clarke rubs his arm ruefully and Rauf gives it not out. AAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!
That is all.
to get him to the oval.
My suggestion of Ramprakash which started as a joke is starting to look sensible, which is ridiculous.
and why, why, why, why put in a nightwatchman now? WHY? What possible benefits could it bring? Losing two overs later? And oh look, Cook's out - Prior or another nightwatchman? Fucking pointless.
heard it here first.
SHuffle Vaughan down to 4.
The fact that I am seriously thinking about this worries me.
i'd agree with Butcher, and Thorpe should come in for Croft on second thought. batting's a bit flimsy.
let's make it happen.
Gough can entertain the crowds with some dancing if it rains.
I'd say combine the SKY and TMS commentary teams. Boycott, Atherton, Hussain, Gower, Lloyd, Botham, Stewart, Marks, Fraser, Agnew, Tufnell.
in a special hamper.
1) Steve Harmison and the blind troll fucks who picked him. FOR FUCKS SAKE! HOW MANY TIMES! It doesn't matter how many batsman he batters on the county circuit. It doens't matter that he's got 5000 wickets at 7.1 each for Durham. It really doesn't. Since 2005 with the exception of a couple of really good spells against Pakistan on a bouncing wicket he has been dross. Awful. An embarressment. Do. not. pick. this. man. EVER. again.
2) Ravi Bopara at 3. No problem with Ravi Bopara at all. Got a bit of talent with bat and ball. Should be ok at 6 and if we used his bowling we wouldn't feel this insane need for 5 out and out bowlers.
3) Ian Bell.
4.) The lack of a designated allrounder has unbalanced the team. Even if it's only mentally.
he could have taken 10 wickets for 50 runs and we'd still lose this game.
oh I give up trying to finish that point.
He has bowled dross. Both sides of the wicket. Zero threat. He isn't even THAT fast. And his sulks surely don't help.
4) The moderators on this site. When the cricket threads are sticky we do rather well. When they aren't... LOOK WHAT YOU'VE DONE.
our batsmen tallied up 102. 102. the only point you should make about this test should be screamed and accommpanied by stabbing motions. what could the bowlers do coming ut with only 102 runs to play with?
There were two reasons why England got 102
1) England bowled like ferrets
2) Australia bowled tight, accurate and hostile.
If England had had a decent pace attack we could have had a crack at 2) ourselves and tried to emulate the Australians. Instead Harmison sprays it around, feeds Ponting long hops, goes at a run a ball and sets the tone for a massive Austrialn total.
THe fact that England only made 102 should have made us more inclined to bowl WELL rather than excuse us from bowling shite.
(as in, you know, "you send them out after the rabbits")
mainly because the latter came before the former chronologically.
and fielding options are limited when you have 102 runs to play with, it went defensive very quickly because you can't afford slips at that position. the bowling was dire but 400 wasn't a huge total from australia, and...no i just can't understand how anything but the batting line-up could be blamed and forced to bear this cross eternally.
you meant the batsmen.
which means the selectors can't (won't) make radical changes. It sounds silly but we'd have more chance of winning the 5th test if we'd already lost the series.
As I make clear in point 1 it's not just about this test: it's cumulative. He's been doing this for a good few years now and the fact that at one time he was the number one rated bowler in the world just makes it worse.
He gets dropped. Bowls really well for Durham and then gets recalled. When he bowls for England he bowls dross. All over the shop. And yet he keeps getting recalled again and again.
It's a bit like that girlfriend that you once had a totally amazing relationship with when you were younger. Every time you try to reconnect she ends up drunkenly snogging your mate but you still fall for her again and again.
I mean in the current era post uncovered pitches.
I keep forgettting that the test started on Friday and that this is day 2. Jesus.
England beat West Indies in 2 days a few years back when Gough and Caddick ripped them out.
I think there's been about half a dozen two day Tests in history or something, very few anyway
he shouldn't have ever been allowed near an England team again, it's not just his inaccuracy but his sheer stupidity that's alarming, you should be bowling full at Headingly, the ball was swinging around and he bowls it f**ing short on a regular basis like he always does. It's not bloody rocket science. One short ball every now and again to surprise the batsman isn't a problem, 4 out of 6 most definitely is.
I can't even be bothered to complain about the rest of our complete non-performance.
He reckons England should've selected Sidebottom and Trott to replace Flintoff and Broad, I agreed at the time and nothing has happened since to make me think the selectors shouldn't have gone for this team instead.
Just to warn you most of the people on that site write utter balls but it hasn't been around for long, hopefully it'll atract some decent writers.
BOWLERS WITH BRAINS. BATSMEN WITH BACKBONES.
Or are we just going to pretend that it isn't happening?
I'm watching, there's plenty to look forward to....
Ok. Imagine this. Imagine if Broad finally does fulfil his allrounder potential and gets a significant number of runs right? Still with me?
And then we can nick Australia's idea of the allrounder-opener (which has worked very well in Watson's case thus far) put him in at the top of the order. Strauss then comes in at 3 and HEY PRESTO! We have a number three who knows how to hold a bat!
Now that I've typed it out it reminds me of that line from Blackadder "you see there was one flaw in the plan. It was crap"
bumped in order to facilitate that plan in fact. strauss at 3 could be a great call though, but his opening form is good would it not be folly to disrupt that?
i honestly thought all this was behind me... it feels like 1996 again...
But that still looks weak, batting wise. There doesn't seem to be any way of making our lineup look anywhere near as strong as australias without KP.
without pietersen we have only strauss who is at the top of the order anyway. Colly just never looks comfortbale and does not inspire confidence and that is exactly what bell and bopara need.
I think I agree with your team, i like key and think bell has run out of chances to prove he has the bottle to win a test match for his team
Can the last pair put on six?
Stuart Broad is becoming a serious man crush for me currently, I genuinely beleive he has the potential with the right captaincy and coaching to become world class, given this series has been a learning curve in places but if loses 5mph bowls using the seam instead of swinging and stops bowling one ball of dross an over he could be awesome!
1 kick in the nuts for every run more than them he made.
particularly as only Strauss didn't capitulate career-wise since. we'd do better to show the 2006/7 Ashes and learn from it.
As I recall he had one pretty ropey test, was dropped and has never been heard of since. Compare and contrast with Harmison's many lives....
I guess they felt that with the emergence of Sidebottom they had no need of another swing bowler with daft hair. I dunno. How's he playing for Yorkshire?
but managed to keep it relatively quiet.
Would explain it and his subsequent anonymity, if true.
In May 2007 Hoggard's wife Sarah gave birth to a baby boy, Ernie, weighing in at 7 lbs 10 oz. She suffered post-natal depression, the marriage took strain, and soon he was depressed, too, "doing a Tres, going cuckoo," as he told Michael Vaughan in the middle of an over on one occasion.
that's awful. Poor guys.
But he's not doing very well at the moment, his contract's up and Yorks propbably aren't gonna renew it, he's been linked with the Worcestershire home for ex-England bowlers. Shame, really. Think the fact that Sidebottom is quicker and more left-armed had something to do with it too, as did the reaction by Anderson and Broad when they replaced him. He probably wasn't glamorous enough either - 80mph swingers not as cool as um, 87mph long hops, but his pace really was down when he got dropped. Hoggard's 8fer against SA in 2005 is one of the best bowling displays I've seen by an England bowler.
Admittedly I've not seen much of the games due to not having sky, and being at work etc. But as far as I can surmise he was told to bowl short and only had swann up the other end for support.
The aussie bowlers go in pairs and are marshalled by an experienced and talented captain.
I think the batting displays have been woeful. Strauss was barely hanging onto his test place when he was made captain (ie since 2005 total shit), Colly isn't a test number 5 any more than flintoff is a test 6 but his fielding and medium pacers are useful. Bopara needs to either drop down the order, or drop out of the team. Ian Bell...can;t see his test career carrying on much further.
I'm torn between keeping the youngsters in the team so that the disappointment of losing the ashes might motivate them in the future.
I hope you're not suggesting Strauss hasn't been good with the bat since being made captain, an average of over 60 would say otherwise. I may have just read this wrong.
Stopped being in the ODI team, etc. Although he got through it and at the moment is clearly indispensible.
but before that he was proper terrible.
averaged over 50... then went shit... then was made captain and became good again.
then hit a 150. but as i said above he's the only 05 Ashes player to continue to play well.