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When does persistence become desperation? And when does desperation become stalking?
Consider, if you will, this common-enough opening to an everyday scenario.
Boys meet girl, boy likes girl, girl likes boy. Boy wants relationship, girl wants friendship. Happens all the time, yes? Happened to you on one side of other I'd wager.
Anyway, I've known people who've reacted (or the person whose interested in them has reacted) in three different ways:
In Scenario A, despite the rejection the guy still hopes something will happen. He persists, eventually the girl's won over, they get into a successful relationship.
In Scenario B, despite the rejection the guy still hopes something will happen. He persists, the girl is never won over and the guy spends months, perhaps even years, wasting time pining over a girl he'll never ever have.
In Scenario C, despite the rejection the guy still hopes something will happen. He persists in a somewhat obsessive manner, girl is rather freaked out and understandably does everything she can to avoid him on all future occasiosns.
Obviously Scenario C we can discount C to some extent as it comes down to the guy's behaviour and manner of approach as much as anything.
But basically the questions we're leading to here are:
1) When does persistence become desperation?
2) How does one judge when to be (politely and gently) persistent and when to walk away?
3) Is the biggest difference between successful and failed persistence the persuasiveness of the guy or the extent to which girl desires to be won over by said guy?
4) Insert any other question you fancy.
4) Are you a Facebook user and are you bamos?
Splendid choice of question.
My answers to 4) would be yes. no.
What about Scenario D
Call her a cock-teasing bitch, get drunk, try and sleep with her sister/best friend, get rejected, call girl up and mask the obvious booty nature of the call with an apology, get hung-up on and go home, where you will wake up five hours later to find that you fell asleep with your trousers down whilst wanking and now have ankles as cold as your heart?
I'm counting that as a variant of Scenario B.
hey!
have you been spying on me?
This is a hard one
cos I am the kind of girl who is flattered by people getting obsessed over me. One womans stalking is another womans romantic. I think you have to play it by ear. It's all about the twinkle in the eye when she tells you to fuck off and leave her alone
"The restraining order says no-no
but her eyes say yes-yes"
Sounds like it's more about how much of a loony she is.
I've personally known this sort of persistence work once. I've known plenty of 'tempestuous' romances that just looked like far too much hard work, too.
I've thought up a question 4.
4) In successful cases it that, on the girl's side, she actually does fancy them but hasn't realised/admitted it to herself yet or is that a literary device with no bearing on reality?
I always thought this was what happened.
But last time this happened to me we pretty much just shook hands and decided we'd be friends and forget about it. I think after it happens a few times you just get desensitised to it and can't be bothered going through repeated rejections over and over again...
Sure but it gets complex when, some time after the rejection, you suddenly realise there's been a shift in dynamic and think "hang on, what's going on here then?"
Obviously if you ask someone out, they say no, and nothing changes then asking them out again will produce the same results. I've learned that lesson the hard way.
Good point.
The changing-dynamic thing is always a bit weird, but this time I realised it's just that we've got over the awkwardness and are just genuinely friends. I think. There needs to be a (d) on your list, for when both parties leave it but at least one of them, whilst not actively pursuing it and happy to just be friends, would probably still take full advantage of an invitation for coffee after walking said other party home after a drinking party...
walk away...
If she's worth it she'll come back...life is too short!
I was. She might be.
That's where I'm getting confused. For one of hte first times ever I think I'd successfully managed the "walk away and accept being friends" thing but now I'm not sure whether I'm still holding out hope in desperation or if her behaviour/attitude towards me is starting to shift...
I would stick to the original plan
If she wants you, she'll let you know, all the other stuff (tentative flirting etc) is just a ploy to make her feel better. It's been my experience that you are the backup plan and ego-massage and nothing more.
Find someone who actually wants to get into your pants and see how your new 'friend' reacts. Trust me, pining sucks..big time!
Tentative flirting isn't really what's happening - that's happened before with other girls but this feels a bit different.
I mean I think you're essentially right. But I think what's actually happened is that because I've adjusted very very well to being friends she's suddenly realising that actually she can't count on me as a back-up plan/ego massage at all...
I mean I'm well aware it possibly means she's trying to get back my attention/approval as a means of rescuing said back-up plan rather than anything else but certainly what I've noticed is that now she's the one whose trying to impress me/concerned about what I think of her/unsure of where she stands with me whereas before it was the other way round...
Clearly if I could find someone who actually is interested in me (and Christ knows that's my intention at the moment - I've absolutely no intention of hanging round for her!) it'd help in forcing the issue but I do feel (which is where I'm surprised/confused) I'm actually the one in control of the situation at present.
Oh man
Scenario B is the story of my life
:(
It's not very nice at all
That's what I'm doing my best to avoid.
I don't want to fuck things up with someone I genuinely like through failing to realise the moment was right for me to do something but, at the same time, I don't want another elongated spell of hoping in vain.
how about when there's someone else involved?
like an ex who just won't get out of the picture - they're still "friends"...... and you think you're over it but 6 months down the line end up crying after spending time with 'her' due to 'her' consideration and the fact 'she' is such a NICE PERSON, and the kind of person you rarely meet?
Sleep with someone else!
That'll learn the stupid boy for listening/observing ANYTHING about his ex.
tried that.
i didn't tell him about it but i've been seeing like 3 different people since the incident. nothing even comes close, although the new guy is completely amazing <3
let's hope this one doesn't turn out to be a fuck up as well.
for the record
the time to walk away is when the girl in question wants to have her cake, but not eat it to to speak. if your friends/acquaintences then everythings fine, but if she's using you for intimacy/attention without actually committing to a relationship then that's just taking advantage, and is definitely the time to walk away.
for the record, this is also a much more successful way of getting girls than 'persistance'. if you can cut off access she might miss you enough to go a stage further and give in to your wicked demands. if you're always around and your attentions there on tap, what is there for her to miss?
^
that's exactly what the "ex problem" was/is in my case.
OOPS
I was having a sly dig at your chum IRL, which was a bit silly of me but heigh ho.
My ex slept with my best friend in November and it put me in a bit of a PREDICAMENT because I didn't know their/her agenda, I make theatre with my best friend too and she's always wanted to muscle in on that, so I just didn't know what to make of it... when I went to visit him she tried to get us to meet her, and I just couldn't understand what she was trying to orchestrate, she didn't like that i'd moved on and a few months earlier had tried to move in with another best friend, I was transparent about it with my then current girlf because I didn't want to keep things from her and I thought that was the best decision (maybe this was true of your old chap) BUTTHENTHINGSWENTQUITEWRONGINTHEREALWORLDANDIWOULDSAYTHEREISAGOODCHANCEYOUKNOWADIFFERENTSIDETOTHISSTORYSO...
I knew this DiS malarkey would go wrong quickly...
i don't geddit.
i'm trying to ignore my feelings and move on. if he wants to be hung up about some girl he'll never be with, that's his problem not mine. it's just a little bit harder for me to get over him when he's so caring.
Errm, hmmm
This is a tough one.
Are you sure he's hung up over her? What does he say?
And what makes him so caring?
And what is it you think you *might* do to enable/cause that?
he broke things off with me because of her.
he said i was "the perfect person" - i totally went off the rails though, i have never been so heartbroken. one moment he was suggesting meeting my mum, the next he decided he "couldn't do this right now"
recently she slept with MY best friend. said guy found out, went totally mental/really hurt and upset. she's moving away soon though. thank god.
he always texts me/messages me to make sure i'm alright, recently when i had family problems he talked to me about it, and will always make the effort to make sure i'm okay (he knows i have a shitty past). we talk MOST days. it was on a night out when i realised i still had feelings for him.. we did the whole 'holding hands while walking through the crowd' thing, he went out of his way to put my jacket out for free and we were talking for a good while. i just know it's not reciprocated.
cause getting over him? i dunno. i thought i was until aforementioned incident.
Your best friend?
yeah small world.
as much as i love my best friend sometimes he needs to stop having sex with people i know ;)
Hm
Ok; I don't think there's anything out of turn being confrontational about this. Ask him straight up why he's doing what he does, he's not going to be oblivious, he obviously INTENDS something by it and if it's messing you up you need to say 'Look, you know how I feel, why are you doing this?'
Your friend... does he get off feeding on drama and breaking the spirit of other guys for his own gratification? If so it's a pretty hollow way to conduct himself, and no good will come of it. Is he actually doing you much of a favour by worming his way into this dynamic, or is he making things more difficult for you?... hard to say I suppose.
Intimacy is the issue that's fucking my head.
Intimacy in a non-sexual sense I mean - little gestures, actions and bits of contact that aren't really "inappropriate" in themselves but imply a level of closeness and affection that suggest something more than friendship.
I feel your confusion...
I'm having a very similar problem, started a bit of a fling with a guy nearly a year ago now, it was going well then he said he doesn't want a relationship but he does really like me. Then the passed few months he's backed off even more so I've presumed he's wanted to stay as friends instead.
But a few weeks ago he told all our mates that if he could go out with anyone he'd be with me. And when we were out the other week he was saying some really lovely things. We spend loads of time together, I always end up staying at his and now I just don't understand the problem.
Sometimes he seems a bit distant but as soon as i act a bit disinterested around him he changes, I just find it hard to pretend i'm not interested as i hate playing games. Now things are looking hopeful again, he came over for dinner last week (before he would never do this!) and he's coming to a wedding with me next week. But I don't know if he's actually interested again or if he's just doing it to be nice! Very confusing!
You'd have to ask the Blue Team...
Semi-Obscure DiS football reference?
If so I feel slightly pathetic for knowing that having never attended a DiS football match.
10 Team Points for you sir
You may now consider yourself slightly pathetic if you so wish.
Splendid!
Go team Ducktoplasm.
had this before
had an eight month slowburn rebound atempt. pride made me a desperate man. things almost worked out, missed my chance but couldn't let go.
i realised i'd fallen on the wrong side of stalking when i went to get photos developed in a different city just to try and meet her on her lunch break at work.
eventually i drove to her house and told her on her doorstep that i wouldn't be bothering her anymore, got back the records i'd lent her and said goodbye. even after doing that i still sent a couple of embarrassing messages trying to reconcile us until she finally responded saying that we were not right for each other. knowing that was one of the BEST feelings in the world because i FINALLY knew where i stood after so long in the dark.
my advice, closure is the holy grail. either avoid hanging out with her anymore or make one last assault on cunt castle.
to be very clear
i am not advocating rape
Closure isn't really an option.
It'd involve quitting my job.
it's probably too late
to warn against a workplace relationship then?
http://www.tvgohome.com/2508-2000.html (top right)