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with realistic views. Here's hoping anyway.
this will not end well
people don't realise how close Sharon was to achieving some form of this. And Rabin.
We HAVE to do this at some point. HAVE to.
he could have got some of the right-wing on board for sure.
He withdrew from Gaza which was basically without precedent. If he hadn't effectively died I think the regression of the last 4 years would have been avoided or at the least mitigated.
is complete hogwash though, isn't it? Ok there's Oslo, but this is the guy that said that Israel could achieve peace without giving anything up? And actually enforced the occupation that he apparently tried to redress. I'm sorry, I don't buy it at all. Let's not forget the Broken Bones speech (just in case: Israeli's should and are entitled to break the bones of peaceful Palestinian protestors). Its ridiculous.
And I think we must disagree on the concept of withdrawal too
Destroying infrastructure (power stations,etc). Also just to go back to Rabin, he was the one that authorised the construction of the wall in Gaza.
I don't care. He's been dead for 15 years.
If Hitler arranged a peace settlement i'd go for it.
but I don't see how that point means anything. These things don't exist inside a vacuum.
destroy the middle east with some kind of interchange with iran) someone DOES and if they do I don't really care who they are.
I'd define myself as a realist and as said above I believe in results rather than rhetoric.
are you gonna come to Zonino?
cos I look forward to resumption of this debate if so.... :)
(I didn't know there was another one?) Not trying to be ultra-combative by the way (you don't seem like the type to take these things personally, but y'know)
I'm sure there will be.
but nobody is in the levant, and he came closer than anyone else on our side, and I praise results over rhetoric.
saying he isn't a saint when he had a lot to do with ethnic cleansing of Palestinians in Lydda/seizure of the Golan Heights,etc,etc. is a slight understatement. I don't see the results you're talking about.
and whether you like it or not these ARE the people you are debating with (and believe me there are similar reservations with most on both sides) and at some point people have to forget the past and move forward.
Assuming of course people want peace?
bad faith is the central issue. But I do get a little bit annoyed with such a skewing of facts and perhaps the good faith being aimed at figures who have done nothing to deserve their reputations and have repeatedly held back the peace they wax lyrical about. There's nothing but rhetoric holding up figures like Sharon and Rabin.
name an important palestinian figure who the accusation of bad faith couldn't be aimed at.
but I'm not going to get drawn into that. I'm not saying that there isn't bad faith, but I am saying that's not why there are no results.
I think framing it like that creates equivalences and equal relationships where I don't think there are any. Perhaps that plays into the idea of restricted possibilities, but I think that idea is actually kind of valid (in all sorts of incredibly labyrinthine and lame cod-philosophical ways)
exams n shiz
cos of gainful employment, tho to be honest no-one in my company really understands what I do so I can get away with a lot,
a fair few arab states have sizeable minorities who dont want this to happen tho. loud, aggressive minorities.
also, its not just arabs tho, is it? are the iranians included in this?
But Iranians aren't arabs and essentially it has fuck all to do with them.
As for this, Syria will probably fuck it up.
theyll make a lot of noise about the golan heights but wont actually risk anything heavy, at least not without backing
*holds fingers very close* to war in 2007.
Assad is not a fool and war would mean ruin for Syria. He doesn't want to be Irans mini-me so I remain optimistic some kind of settlement can be reached on the golan heights. admittedly it is possibly one of the trickiest parts of this but I remain optimistic, because everyone can see the denouement if this cause isn't changed,
By the sounds of it Abdullah wants a united front. I see Syria as being the likeliest problem out of everyone. This plan won't look so great with such a conspicuous absence. They're going to need some kind of incentive, and I'm not sure who's going to present it to them...
and Israel would win again.
Essentially demographics. As Kruschev said (if this course doesn't change) they will bury us.