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Degree Classifications

OvertakenByTractors [Edit] [Delete] 90 replies 23:35, 23 April '09

For those you've been through uni. What difference in job and further study opportunities have you noticed for people with different degree classifications. 1, 2:1, 2:2, 3, Ordinary, Fail...what do they all mean?

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  • if you go to major companies with big hr depts

    anything lower than a 2:1 gets binned by the computer.

    2:1 is usually the standard minimum, howeverapart from big companies it really depends on you as a person and your background.

    Ity also depends on what you want to do. If it is a big company they still go for people with 3rds from Oxbridge rather than people with 1sts from another university. I've seen this mostly in marketing and management.

    If you are going into a highly skilled proffession however, or science or math based there is less reliance on your uni or degree class but more on your experience and entry exams the employer may set

    countzero | 23 Apr '09, 23:51 | X
  • SIMPLE RULE

    sciences/maths=pass upwards is still an achievement in the UK

    arts=anything lower than a 2:1 either makes you retarded or you never did any work EVER

    countzero | 23 Apr '09, 23:53 | X
    • Bullshit

      with an arts degree your portfolio is more important (with graduate art jobs anyway)

      Clair_de_Lune @countzero | 24 Apr '09, 00:01 | X
      • i meant arts/humanties

        not really fine arts

        countzero @Clair_de_Lune | 24 Apr '09, 00:03 | X
  • i got a 2.2

    i'd never get a decent graduate placement with it so i went and got a job i could've got with my a-levels

    now i'm doing a masters degree (that i had to jump through hoops to get on due to my poor BA showing) and working a 'normal' job part time to fund it. i'm doing canny well on this so hopefully it'll help hide the stain of my wasted first three years.

    soapy | 23 Apr '09, 23:54 | X
    • lesson kids ...

      don't write your dissertation on a topic you hate over four days and three sleepness nights before rushing into the printshop to get it bound and handed in minutes before the deadline

      soapy @soapy | 23 Apr '09, 23:55 | X
      • I did that

        I ran int ouni in my pyjamas...

        Also, I never finished it...but they never noticed!!

        countzero @soapy | 23 Apr '09, 23:57 | X
        • I also did this

          only I finished the dissertation with 6 hours to spare and then tried to print it out on my word processor, little realising that my word processor would start melting if I tried to print out more than 10 pages at any one time.

          bumlord @countzero | 24 Apr '09, 01:27 | X
      • Pish, I wrote my dissertation in a day

        LordLuciusBanter @soapy | 24 Apr '09, 14:35 | X
  • A lot of standard graduates want 2:1 or over, I've found... :'(

    Clair_de_Lune | 23 Apr '09, 23:54 | X
    • graduate jobs*

      Clair_de_Lune @Clair_de_Lune | 23 Apr '09, 23:55 | X
    • someone with a pass got a job over me

      countzero @Clair_de_Lune | 23 Apr '09, 23:55 | X
  • hmm, not sure

    I got a 1st in a laughable arts subject from a good university. I've always done pretty well at getting jobs. But not all of my colleagues have degrees, and the ones that did I don't know what grades they got. Those 'graduate trainee schemes' all want really high grades, my friend with a 2:1 got turned down by all of them. But they sounded like horrible depressing jobs, he has a much better job now!

    nice_squirrel | 23 Apr '09, 23:58 | X
    • completely off subject

      did you go to doom to the tomb alldayer?

      countzero @nice_squirrel | 23 Apr '09, 23:59 | X
      • if it was at the Grosvenor in Stockwell a few weeks ago

        then yes! For a little while! Otherwise, no, I don't think so...

        nice_squirrel @countzero | 24 Apr '09, 00:01 | X
        • YES#!that's the one!

          countzero @nice_squirrel | 24 Apr '09, 00:02 | X
          • yeah! I went to see my friend's band Gorse

            (he's the drummer). Were you there? Did you recognise me? Were you in a band?

            nice_squirrel @countzero | 24 Apr '09, 00:03 | X
            • I'm in a band with one of the Koresh guys

              and know all the others involved sort of indirectly...

              Gorse are pretty awesome actually

              I was meant to go to this but i woke up late..but Theo mentioned it here and I loled a little!...

              There's one at the Gaff soon too...but don't know if i can make that either

              countzero @nice_squirrel | 24 Apr '09, 00:08 | X
              • ah, ok

                the Gaff is right by my house! I'm a bit floral to go on my own though I think :)

                Gorse are good but the same friend's other band are the most totally awesome:

                http://www.myspace.com/mothertrucker

                nice_squirrel @countzero | 24 Apr '09, 00:11 | X
                • oh I have heard one of the songs of this

                  but I didn't know the band!

                  countzero @nice_squirrel | 24 Apr '09, 00:16 | X
                  • ha, that's ace!

                    their influence is spreading...

                    nice_squirrel @countzero | 24 Apr '09, 00:17 | X
                • They are a bit insular that lot

                  countzero @nice_squirrel | 24 Apr '09, 00:19 | X
                  • yeah, it's insane

                    my friend's new to that scene so he didn't really know anyone, but everyone else seemed to know each other. I think I was the only person not in one of the bands playing!

                    nice_squirrel @countzero | 24 Apr '09, 00:23 | X
                    • they do...they from the same online forum

                      I guess it's like Zonino for dissers...I guess a non diser (or even a diser that doesn't know other ones in real life) would find that uncomfortable

                      countzero @nice_squirrel | 24 Apr '09, 00:27 | X
        • couldn't believe a diser went to that

          countzero @nice_squirrel | 24 Apr '09, 00:02 | X
          • I really enjoyed the first band and my friend's band

            I would have stayed, but I had to go to another gig.

            nice_squirrel @countzero | 24 Apr '09, 00:04 | X
  • "3rds from Oxbridge rather than people with 1sts from another university"

    that's really not true at all. There are plenty of graduate recruiters who won't even look at people with a 3rd, Oxbridge or not. And even if you do make the cut they are liable to look at you as someone intelligent enough to get into a great university but lazy enough to completely squander that opportunity (unless you have decent mitigating factors), which doesn't look good at all. Obviously it depends on where you get your 1st from, but I'd say a 1st from anywhere in the top 20-30 unis looks better than an oxbridge 3rd.

    People can and do spend ages debating the various permutations of degree classification, subject and university reputation and how they affect your employment prospects, but I think at the end of the day these are just things that get you to interview, and once you're there it's how well you interview that really counts.

    ottermagic | 24 Apr '09, 00:08 | X
    • I had an interview at Google

      at the time my university was number 3 in the country...

      the guy interview me jsut sniggered and said he hadn;t heard of it and asked if 'it was some polly' and told me everyone there was oxbridge...

      Now I am on a course at UCL doing info science and a girl there works for google and she got a 3rd in music..

      maybe not a blanket rule but that's and example

      countzero @ottermagic | 24 Apr '09, 00:11 | X
      • What uni?

        _antilovesong @countzero | 24 Apr '09, 00:13 | X
        • SOAS

          countzero @_antilovesong | 24 Apr '09, 00:15 | X
          • When was SOAS ever third in the country?

            LordLuciusBanter @countzero | 24 Apr '09, 14:37 | X
            • 2003

              countzero @LordLuciusBanter | 24 Apr '09, 14:41 | X
              • in what listing?

                LordLuciusBanter @countzero | 24 Apr '09, 14:57 | X
                • Guardian

                  its 6 now I think

                  countzero @LordLuciusBanter | 24 Apr '09, 18:51 | X
      • maybe it's because google is an american company?

        I only really know about graduate recruitment in the context of the legal sector, but it seems that a lot of American firms are massively keen on Oxbridge as they have the international reputation..

        ottermagic @countzero | 24 Apr '09, 00:17 | X
      • i'd expect better from google

        youd think they would be all about innovation and finding talent wherever it is

        ThingsThatFly @countzero | 24 Apr '09, 00:23 | X
        • im sure once I read they dont even advertise jobs

          just leave clues and if people solve it they get an interview

          ThingsThatFly @ThingsThatFly | 24 Apr '09, 00:25 | X
          • They do in a weird way

            I never applied...I got an email after joining some google summer of code forums

            countzero @ThingsThatFly | 24 Apr '09, 00:41 | X
        • I think I had grounds to take them to court actually

          I had 3 interviews....one of them was shocked that I was Asian and kept on saying he expected someone 'Turkish' and kept o nasking if I was from the 'East End' and if I went to the mosque a lot?????

          countzero @ThingsThatFly | 24 Apr '09, 00:28 | X
          • that's really shocking!

            what did you say to him?

            nice_squirrel @countzero | 24 Apr '09, 00:31 | X
            • I was nervous

              so I jsut answered the questions..

              then he kept on apologising and sayign "oh yeah...none of my business"..then asked another inapropriate question..

              to top things...he was the 'nice one'...bascailly I never applied for the job...somehow I received an emai lasking i f was interested..so i shot an email back sayign yeh here' some info..it had lots of spelling errors like my dis posts...but i wasn't expecting anything..

              welll..they invited me for interview..

              the bordering on racist guy was actually ok because he told me that my cv looked really good and the email shouldn't be part of the selection process so he passed me to the enxt stage..

              the next guy was the oxbridge snob who kept on goign on at me about my email....really rude..and saying there isn;t a palce for people like me at Google.

              I finally sort of blew and went "look...I never applied for a position here in the first place!!! YOU ASKED ME HERE but yo uall seem to be shocked that I am not white...and to make it worse..I'm not to Oxbridge...Why did you aks me to come for an interview???"

              countzero @nice_squirrel | 24 Apr '09, 00:35 | X
              • that sounds horrible

                see, these 'fun' companies to work for all turn out to be evil. Like American Apparel!

                nice_squirrel @countzero | 24 Apr '09, 00:37 | X
                • sweet lord

                  how did American Apparel look fun in the first place? Genuine question...

                  fidel_catstro @nice_squirrel | 24 Apr '09, 10:11 | X
    • reply placement fail

      @countzero btw. Also, I just realised you did make the point that <2.1s often get automatically binned...

      ottermagic @ottermagic | 24 Apr '09, 00:12 | X
      • I mean big companies that have those computerised sifting systems

        mostly bankds and management companies....

        anything below 2.1 is not passed up the chain...

        the oxbridge 3rd vs 1st at other universities statement is something that i have concluded from the experiences of a group of friends from different unis.

        my friends from non oxbridge unis usually got got 2:1s..some did mas and phds others applied for jobs with mixed results...friends from oxford got jobs immediately with no experience including one in dubai with a 2:2.

        countzero @ottermagic | 24 Apr '09, 00:24 | X
  • I got a first.

    I don't think it'll make any difference in what I want to do. I was actually told in an interview for a masters in social work that my first indicates I am too academic to be a social worker. I have also been told my first means I'm not well-rounded, which is bullshit.

    _antilovesong | 24 Apr '09, 00:09 | X
    • nah that's balls

      I got told that at university a fair bit, but only by fellow students justifying not working hard! Having a first is never a bad thing.

      nice_squirrel @_antilovesong | 24 Apr '09, 00:13 | X
      • It was a recruiter that told me that!

        They said they don't hire people with firsts!
        I wasn't trying to be recuited by them, though, so it's irrelevant.

        _antilovesong @nice_squirrel | 24 Apr '09, 00:19 | X
        • wow, that's terrible

          their loss to social work :)

          nice_squirrel @_antilovesong | 24 Apr '09, 00:23 | X
          • I got accepted by a different uni

            for my masters, so I don't care :)

            _antilovesong @nice_squirrel | 24 Apr '09, 00:27 | X
      • word

        apart from that, I don't think it matters a great deal. The higher the classification the better, but people I know with 2.2s seem to get jobs. If you get a Third then you're either a dunce or didn't do any work - either way, you've only got yourself to blame.

        I think classifications are quite important if you're desperate to be an accountant and work for KPMG or whatever, then you'll probably find it difficult without a 2.1...but if you're that desperate to do something like that, then having a 2.2 is the last of your problems.

        ConcentrationFace @nice_squirrel | 24 Apr '09, 00:20 | X
        • My friend has a graduate position with Abbey National,

          he got a a 2.2, the rest of those interviewed got 1sts, but apparently Andrew interviewed better than any of the others.

          _antilovesong @ConcentrationFace | 24 Apr '09, 00:24 | X
        • think 2.2 is enough for an alright office job

          I don't think a 2.1 is any better unless you are one of those go getter types anyway, the ones with all the extracuricular stuff, charm in interviews and walk into whatever they want. I got a 2.1 but my first post uni job only asked for gcse's (but it was in socilology so only myself to blame)

          ThingsThatFly @ConcentrationFace | 24 Apr '09, 00:31 | X
    • haha that's mad

      my mum got a job as a social worker in the 70s just because she had a degree (albeit a good oxbridge one in a science subject) - no training, no prep... just put her in the mix.

      things have changed.

      pylon @_antilovesong | 24 Apr '09, 05:13 | X
  • got a first in politics

    work in a petrol station.

    cheers.

    michael_w | 24 Apr '09, 00:39 | X
    • I got a first in Literature

      and work in a call centre. Everyone tells me I'm lucky to have a fucking job!

      Internal_Wrangler @michael_w | 24 Apr '09, 00:47 | X
      • Hey Internal_Wrangler! I got a first in Film Studies and American Studies,

        and promptly set about working in a call centre for six months because that degree qualified me to do absolutely nothing apart from talk about films and American history with a slightly greater authority than the next man in the pub. No fun.

        I wrote a blog piece about call centres, which you may enjoy - http://hotrant.blogspot.com/

        P.S. I'm doing better now, and onto pastures new. Stay strong. A first does help, but it really is all about the interview, I've found.

        ashstreath85 @Internal_Wrangler | 24 Apr '09, 01:36 | X
    • I got a 2:2

      in a really crap media degree from a thoroughly shit college (not a uni). Probably deserved a third as I did very little work in the last year (did you know Michelle from EastEnders got a third?)
      After bumming around for a few years in mostly crappy jobs vaguely related to my degree, and with hardly any drive or ambition whatsoever, I'm now doing pretty much my dream job at what is pretty much my dream company to work for.

      When I was first at college lots of people asked me what I'd done for A Levels and what marks I got, and it seemed really important at the time, but a year or two later A Levels seemed pretty insignificant.

      It takes a bit longer for degrees, but eventually whatever final mark you get is just as insignificant: a few years after university employers care more about your experience than whether you got a 2:1, 2:2 or an HND in some vaguely related topic.

      People who get firsts, however, are forever be marked out as smart-arses; employers will delight in making them suffer in any way possible, knowing that these clever cunts will go on to run the planet and spend their over-achieving cunt lives making the rest of us ever more miserable

      bumlord @michael_w | 24 Apr '09, 01:07 | X
    • I got a first in Media Studies

      The best paid job I've had since I left uni was in a post room. I've spent the best part of 18 months unemployed (although not consecutively). I'm currently doing data entry.

      I fail at life.

      theseabass @michael_w | 24 Apr '09, 17:13 | X
  • I got a first at Oxford, but in archaeology

    which isn't top of the list of subjects for prospective employers. I'm sure I could have used it to get a lot of exciting career opportunities if it hadn't given me a self-righteous sense of entitlement.

    It'd definitely be a distinct advantage to get a 2:1, but I think being confident and knowing what you're talking about in interviews are as, if not more, significant

    chiaroscuro | 24 Apr '09, 01:04 | X
    • archaeLOLogy

      (i'm guessing i'm not the first person to come up with that one)

      bumlord @chiaroscuro | 24 Apr '09, 01:29 | X
    • I worry about my degree in archaeology.

      'which isn't top of the list of subjects for prospective employers' has just confirmed my fear :(

      natalia_27 @chiaroscuro | 24 Apr '09, 10:43 | X
  • So the general view is 2:2 bad, 2:1 good

    but how much of an extra advantage does it give you if you get a 1st?

    Piwi | 24 Apr '09, 01:28 | X
    • Not much

      unless you work to work in academia.

      _antilovesong @Piwi | 24 Apr '09, 01:41 | X
      • Not to dispute it might help

        but I know lots of people in academia who have 2:1s and some who have 2:1s from crap universities. It may depend on field though. I'd imagine physics nerds would expect a first, because you don't need to be a rounded individual to research that.

        doctornovocalcords @_antilovesong | 24 Apr '09, 13:41 | X
    • Depends

      In an arts based subject, people would view 2:1 as great and a first as tops

      In an empirical subject such as maths a lot of people would expect firsts

      LordLuciusBanter @Piwi | 24 Apr '09, 14:45 | X
      • I've noticed it wiht maths

        people would just appreciate the fact someone attempted to do maths...Every person know that did maths got jobs immediately..good ones..even teh guy that got a 3rd

        countzero @LordLuciusBanter | 24 Apr '09, 18:48 | X
  • It'll only matter until you get 2 years experience really

    if you get a 3rd you might as well put a red flag say i suck.

    2:2 not bad not great
    2:1 yep this person did well at uni: i'd employ him
    1st will get you in even if its a bad uni. we had this girl at last place who got a 1st from crap bag uni who got a job despite my objection over a guy with a 2:1 from UCL.

    definitionofself | 24 Apr '09, 09:58 | X
    • it very much depends on employers

      ive not met a small business yet that gets the difference between red brick and ex poly yet which is sad. I'd imagine this would be less so downsouth. Also if you get a 1st in a unrelated subject you'd still stand a chance against someone who studied it and got a 2:2 i think

      definitionofself @definitionofself | 24 Apr '09, 10:00 | X
  • i can't believe how down everyone is on firsts!

    It's massively hard to be that consistent academically over the course of three years. I started another degree, after jacking in english literature about eight or nine years ago, and have realised that you can get a 2.1 regardless of how little work you do, but most firsts are not accidental (having realised my first grades have come about from actually putting more effort in rather than being frequent, now less frequent, flukes).

    Anyway, I really think the importance of the degree classification depends on what you want to do. I know people that have studied humanities/social sciences but are doing their dream jobs, unrelated, because of personality/experience that they've built up.

    hellatronix | 24 Apr '09, 10:29 | X
    • Hmm.

      My grades have never really correlated to the amount of work I've put in. I've rushed things the night before and got 75s, but worked for three or four days and scraped above the 50 level. Marking in the humanities does seem to be completely arbitrary.

      proslo @hellatronix | 24 Apr '09, 12:18 | X
      • i kind of agree with you

        but having looked back at my essay grades, i have understood the things that i've got firsts in slightly better than the ones i've got 2.1s in. That's the reason why the first essays might have been easier to write the night before?

        i think people that do well have consistent methods of studying that are nothing to do with whether they are enjoying that part of the subject or not. i think that sometimes explains fluctuating grades. you learn differently if you like something maybe, it might feel like less work but you're actually working and learning and therefore pulling a better grade?

        sometimes i've got 2.1s on things that i've put a lot of work into, but the way of working has been massively inefficient because i found the subject immensely boring

        hellatronix @proslo | 24 Apr '09, 13:32 | X
        • Enthusiasm is the only possible explanation.

          And I really suffer when I find a topic boring or irrelevant. Cannot bring myself to even read the lecture notes until the night before if it's something truly tedious - which isn't good for my degree (it's touch and go whether I'll make a 2:1 now) but does mean I've had an enjoyable time of it.

          proslo @hellatronix | 24 Apr '09, 13:46 | X
    • my ex gf

      got an 'accidental' first, after doing bugger all work. It shook my faith in the value and relevance of degree classifications

      chiaroscuro @hellatronix | 24 Apr '09, 13:17 | X
    • I'm not down on them.

      I am more proud of getting a first than of anything else in my life. But I don't believe it'll help me in my career prospects at all. As I mentioned above, it's only semi-hindered me so far.

      _antilovesong @hellatronix | 24 Apr '09, 17:48 | X
  • I got a 2:1 for my undergraduate degree and a distinction for my masters but

    I don't think it's made any difference as regards job opportunities / interviews, mainly because I've not followed a route into academia. I think if you're going to go into a corporate field (as I have) it's far more about showing that you've got an ability to multitask, be confident, work consistently hard, look for and manage responsibilities in your role and build good working relationships with people, as opposed to how good you were at writing essays at university.

    All whilst posting on DiS every day.

    eschaton | 24 Apr '09, 11:03 | X
  • I got a really shit 2:1 from Oxenford and in my experience

    it's about getting that 2:1 or better from a well-known university. Unless you do a cunt job I don't think you need a degree from a top top university though. On my course, I think only 3 people in the year got less than a 2:1 so getting a 2:1 was hardly an achievement if you were smart enough to get in and complete the degree.

    I don't think firsts mean that much personally, at least on the basis of the CV (if the person interviews well too then it's icing on the cake however). Whilst they can mean someone is absurdly smart and doesn't need to do much work, the people I personally knew at uni who got firsts were dull and worked all the time. I suppose depending on job, that can be ideal. A first from a crap uni is obviously better than a worse degree from said uni, but ultimately I think the uni is more important.

    A-levels are supposed to be a better guide anyway, particularly general studies, and if I was employing someone I'd put just as much weight on A-levels.

    doctornovocalcords | 24 Apr '09, 13:12 | X
    • and to add to that

      the person who did my subject who had the most interesting ideas scraped a 2:2. Whilst not surprising (particularly having seen how academia works), that is depressing.

      doctornovocalcords @doctornovocalcords | 24 Apr '09, 13:38 | X
  • I got a 2:1 from York...

    I started applying for graduate jobs last september and I wouldn't have had a chance with a lower classified degree. A couple of years ago my friends graduated with 2:2 and got jobs easily, but the job market for graduates has got really fierce lately and a 2:1 seems minimum for most grad jobs.

    It depends massively what you want to do, but if you want to head into the grad job market a 2:1 is looking like a minimum requirement these days.

    idle65 | 24 Apr '09, 13:19 | X
    • I think that's kind of always been the case

      though some people say too much so. 2:1 is usually a really wide class and so you get a lot of people (like myself) who just fannied around because getting a low 2:1 is usually pretty easy, and that is what they basically need. Really it should be harder to get a 2:1 or you should introduce a true scale like the Americans have so that your final mark is a better reflection of how well you have done. I hate the idea of having to actually work for 3 years, but it does make more sense. At present a 2:1 doesn't mean all that much.

      doctornovocalcords @idle65 | 24 Apr '09, 13:25 | X
      • I'd agree...

        I put the minimal effort into my degree (economics/politics) as I knew I could scrap a 2:1 and that would be enough to get me an ok job.

        If the scale was more consitent and representative of the effort and intelligence of the candidate I would have put more effort in.

        But saying all this, your degree classification just gets you over the firts hurdle... after that box is ticked theres many other barriers to getting a job and many other things that are more important.

        idle65 @doctornovocalcords | 24 Apr '09, 13:38 | X
    • I'm doing English at York at the moment

      This whole classification thing has been sort of worrying me recently, I've not worked very hard at all so far and I'm just coasting on a solid 63, but I know if I wanted to get a First I'd have to put in SO much more effort than I am now, and I've only got 3 modules/terms left. I understand that a First is clearly better than a 2:1 but I don't think I can motivate myself to get one without having a fully shit year next year. Which is fine by me, but my parents keep going mental at me saying I 'might regret it'. Am I likely to regret this?

      badmanreturns @idle65 | 24 Apr '09, 16:57 | X
      • By 'fine by me'

        I mean continuing as I am now having a good time and doing minimal work and coming out with a 2:1...

        badmanreturns @badmanreturns | 24 Apr '09, 17:00 | X
      • I did exactly the same thing...

        I was also at York, and I definately didn't regret it.

        idle65 @badmanreturns | 24 Apr '09, 17:07 | X
  • I was quite pleased with my low classification

    It's in a good subject anyway and I was busy running my succesful import/export business.

    and I subscribe to Evelyn Waugh's views on degrees.

    fullerov | 24 Apr '09, 13:32 | X
  • I got my first graduate job because the MD only employed people from Oxbridge, LSE or Durham

    I had a 2:1, but all the Oxbridge kids had Desmonds.

    From there I got two years of experience to get the ace job I have now. My whole career is down to my university's name opening a door. The people on the open day were right!

    LordLuciusBanter | 24 Apr '09, 14:41 | X
    • Does Durham even ever do well on those ranking tables?

      I'd think of London universities and several redbricks more favourably personally. Who even applies to Durham? (apologies to Durham fans).

      doctornovocalcords @LordLuciusBanter | 24 Apr '09, 14:58 | X
      • Durham is a bit like St Andrews, York and (to a lesser extent) Bristol;

        it used to have a decent reputation when few people went on to further education, but it's basically become a 'sink' university for public school kids that can't get into Oxbridge.

        marckee @doctornovocalcords | 24 Apr '09, 15:29 | X
        • in my experience

          people who went to Durham, Bristol, LSE and Warwick and UCL (to a lesser extent) - quite similar in their whole, 'I didn't get into Oxbridge, but I'm so glad in retrospect' thing. Get over yourself.

          ConcentrationFace @marckee | 24 Apr '09, 18:42 | X
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