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What would your idea of a just punishment for these guys be?
for anyone other the friends and families of those concerned.
so i'ma go for...ooh...life imprisonment?
he never ordered any of the nastiness, did he? it was his nasty right hand men.
I'm pretty sure that hehad something to do with having the camps set up and suchlike.
I was being a little disngenuous to wind you up though, I obviously don't think those guys are blameless. I do think that threatening guys who are properly old and probably dead anyway with the death penalty is a little redundant. For most of them it'd probably be a relief.
As for appropriate punishments, I'm not sure anything would be actually appropriate, but wat are you going to do? Death for them is no justice, and if you want to punish them by hurting them then you're lowering yourself to their level, which is something I definitely think our justice systems should avoid for as long as we want to continue thinking of ourselves as civilised.
Some crimes are just so monstrous there is no appropriate punishment.
because that would mega-stupid.
...being made to stand in the corner and think about what they've done.
is whether or not it's now worthwhile to hunt down 90 year olds in order to try them and say that they're too old to go to jail.
surely the money is probably better spent on Holocaust education and support for the remaining survivors.
Capture, trial, prison, that sort of thing. That'll do me.
an eye for an eye and all that stuff don't solve no problems.
being against the death penalty, for me and many others, is not believing in "an eye for an eye"; believing that a society that puts people to death sets an extremely bad example to is citizens; and that guilt can never be entirely certain. The seriousness of the crime that you are punishing is absolutely irrelevant.
I'll never even be able to begin to find common ground with someone who thinks these people deserve to live. There's not really any question in it for me. I think it would be an insult for the thousands that suffered at their hands to give them a prison sentence over a shaming public execution.
actually acheive? very little, and if anything it would create more sympathy for the guys being murdered. Surely it would almost appear to turn those who suffered into blood thirsty killers hellbent on revenge for something that did not affect them directly, but only their relatives?
you just have to look at the individual reaons we punish people...
rehabilitation? not really an issue here
retribution? again killing one frail old man will have no bearing on the unimaginable scale of suffering, and will never seem to make things even.
revenge? again i dont really think this should be a reason for punishing, and its a bit late/pointless to be killing old men.
a warning to others? not really applicable and the money could be spent far better on education of the horrors of the holocaust.
if you have any other reasons let me know
because i think a public execution wou;d bring more shame on to the executors than the executed. I thnik being imprisoned for all your remaining days and having to live out your life in the knowledge that you are not above the law and the system has beaten you is a far more shaming experience than public execution.
by a mechanical bollock punching machine, then letting them go back into normal society. I don't know why this isn't in place instead of the death penalty.
this is for everyone. Kill a guy, you get ten years of being punched in the nuts.
living in retirement homes with dementia, shitting themselves and not even aware they live in Germany, let alone know of their involvement in WWII. Which is all probably worse than death anyway.
long before 10 years where everything was destroyed/there was no feeling left there at all
along with other problems
even if they go to prison, there's a chance they'll be released at some point and be able to carry on with their life, they shouldn't get this luxury.
(I'm ignoring the fact that these people are about 90 years old in this case, I was making a general point)
what sort of parole board is going to release a serious war criminal?
but war criminals are your average inmate
and he has assumed Godlike powers of deciding.
I'm completely for the death penalty now, thanks for opening my eyes.
The debate is redundant in the UK anyway (indeed for most of Europe in general), it's gone and it's not coming back, so I've never really understood the point of debating whther it's 'right' or not to execute people. But yeah as people have said, eye for an eye is a stupid concept to live by.
meaning life in prison (or until an appeal is won) so that'll do me thanks.
On a related note, you know the bit of a US visa form that says "I was a part of the Nazi atrocities YES NO" - do you reckon they catch out many people with that?
Damn, I escaped for 60 years, FOOLED by this damn form!
It just strikes me as a bit of a long shot
but its a thought had by many who have filled out the form. Also- 'have you ever been a member of the communist party'... Jack Straw mustve had trouble.
...whenever they fill out the form.
But it's REAL. http://travel.state.gov/visa/frvi/ineligibilities/ineligibilities_1364.html
Part E genuinely says if you were involved with the Nazis you can't get a visa. Same with being a communist. WHO KNEW?
There's absolutely nothing you could possibly do to these people that would erase or "settle" the damage they did. And that includes the death sentence. Plus in a way I think the death sentence gives people an escape they don't necessarily deserve
What I would do is give the lifetime imprisonment in a cell where, during their every waking hour, they're confronted with video screens replaying images of the horrors and atrocities and audio accounts of the suffering that those involved in the holocaust went through so they can never for a second forget what they did.
Which is what would happen to any of them if they ever actually got to jail/weren't already dead.
spurious scientific experimentation. Hand 'em over to a bunch of stoned students and let them go wild. "Let's pump him full of squid genes!" "I wanna graft a crab to his face!"
THINK OF THE CHILDREN!
Who the hell would mate with a Nazi Squid Crab? A 90 year old Nazi squid Crab no less? No matter how I picture it in my head I just can't make that sexy.
who would be terrorised should such a monster be unleashed. Those children.
Kids these days are too soft anyways. A good war with a race of Nazi squid crab people could be just what the doctor ordered. Everyone wins.
unless we end up crushed between their pincers and humanity is enslaved. But that's a chance I'm willing to take so long as I don't have to admit this was a bad idea.
in a bottles-only venue
you can't bring drinks outside
it needs to be a bottle only, no glass venue, where they pour your bottle into a plastic glass
I definitely thought this was titled "Anti Death Penalty Gays"
but if they had been caught in the 60's or something, I would support the death penalty for them.
Very rarely do I think it's appropriate and this would be one of those times.
(partly because its all a bit silly really, picking extreme examples means nothing; i'm opposed to the death penalty on principle, and that principle isn't overridden by particularly terrible acts), but a lot of people have been mentioning eye-for-an-eye, which is quite interesting, because the bible actually calls eye-for-an-eye the limit of punishment; ie, the punishment shouldn't exceed the crime. it doesn't say that the punishment SHOULD be eye-for-an-eye, but rather that it shouldn't be any more than that. i always find that quite interesting.
It depends what part of the Bible you read and how you choose to interperet it.
six million times
- they're quite likely feeling a bit tight about the whole jew exterminating thing in retrospect cos of karma and stuff.
- theyre too old to do owt bad now
- prisons are a bit full
- as someone said, theyre probably degenerating in care homes slowly and painfully
killing them's like a reward.
maybe they should be put in a dark room with a big cinema screen paying footage of gas chamber action. obvs with food given to them and stuff. that'd be good a punishment.
I think people on here generally have a bit too much faith in humanity. Do you honestly, honestly think that these guys have any guilt over what they did?
I agree that retribution isn't a basis for a system of punishment normally, but maybe in special cases. This is about as special as it gets.
people always want to believe that every human feels pain and regret, even cunts like this. You can always give people a second chance, there are some things that are unforgivable and deserve the most severe of punishments.
This case is obviously a bit different, these nazi's are either already dead or near enough and too old to cause any more harm. It's disgusting that they've managed to live all this time, but there's not a lot we can do about it now.
I do agree with the death penalty in some situations, but possibly not this one, not anymore. If they'd been found a long time ago, then of course they should be executed.
but if they manage to avoid conviction for a long enough period they should receive a lesser punishment? How does that logic work?
they're no threat to anyone now.
rather than punishment then I can't see why you would be in favour of the death penalty over incarceration.
people will always get out before they should do "for good behaviour", or some other crap - it's used as an excuse to let convicted criminals walk free, so they can make more space for the recently convicted.
I have to say they don't deserve to live either, why should they be allowed to? It should serve as much more of a deterent as well, which in turn will make the country safer. People that ruin others lives should have their own taken from them, you can't even guarantee these criminals actually feel remorse. Do you really think Fritzl cares about what he's done? How can someone willing to comit such awful crimes and ruin his own daughters life and that of her/his children have these feelings? It's possible that he won't really care at all, so you can't even make someone like that "suffer" in prison for the rest of his life. The death penalty is the only sensible course of action for people like that.
"oh yeah I thought about becoming a major player in a genocidal regime, but apparently the penalties are pretty stiff if you get caught"
not for extreme cases like that, but I'm sure it would help in some situations if the punishments were more severe.
Can you give examples? Bearing in mind that this is a discussion about appropriate sentencing in extreme cases where well-nigh unthinkably horrible crimes have been committed.
but it would probably be best that way, yeah. People are going to be pretty pissed off as it is, I wouldn't want to anger the overly liberal nutcases even further.
far from it in fact
not assuming you were running any nation.
I was assuming that I was in charge to make this decision. I like the POWER, let me have my moment.
wrightylew and Gs3 singing so loudly from the same hymn sheet
tell us that story again anschul.
were gassed at Dachau?
bit weird that you would impart that information.
p.s. nice boots
I'm against the death penalty, but I had LITERALLY NEVER THOUGHT about what would happen if someone did something REALLY REALLY BAD. You've blown my mind, destroyed my worldview, man. I cannot believe I was so naive. Ye gods.
produce smoke from their ears, before exploding. Like asking an evil computer in star trek to solve a paradox or 'compute love'
It is as if because I do not support the death penalty for these men, I am endorsing their actions
I NEVER THOUGHT I WOULD ENDORSE THE ACTIONS OF A NAZI =(
my glorious country would have been the goodies, because they would be trying to make sure i wasn't getting took over etc.
Are you going to blow my mind now with some sobering wisdom that you learned while you were shadowing some your local Lib Dem MP?
where the heroes have captured the villain and someone says ''he's killed/endangered lots of innocent people and does so repeatedly lets just kill him now to stop him trying/doing it ever again'' and the hero turns round and says ''No, that would make us as bad as him. We have to be better than them.''
And that's why - we have to be better.