Your are viewing a read-only archive of the old DiS boards. Please hit the Community button above to engage with the DiS !
So, are the 12 colonies all descended from the original Cylons from Earth or what?
is a cylon.
where starbuck burnt her own body though?
as when she first found it and the face was all fucked up and... ugh
quite strongly. It would fit in with the 'all of this has happened before, all of this will happen again' mumbo jumbo that Leoben was spouting when from the very first series.
It was a really good episode, some shocks, with Dee and they got the fifth Cylon reveal out of the way so they can focus on what the frak they're going to do now that they've found out that Earth is a nuclear wasteland
I don't know. Maybe you can spoil some more of a series though.
it's probably a bad idea to click on threads with the name of the series in the title.
(How far through it are you?)
For your information the general style is that if you plan to discuss ongoing serials, you put "(POSSIBLE SPOILERS)" in the thread title so people know NOT to click on it if all they want is a general discussion.
I am up to date however - what the hell is Starbuck supposed to be now?
(I nearly typed 'frak knows' and instantly hated myself).
Possibly created by other Cyclons we've not seen yet?
I preferred the idea that there was just 12 cylons and they were robot clones. This whole idea that there are a whole planet full of them is a bit meh for me.
Still - they have another 10 episodes to clear it up, I guess.
the daughter of Ellen and Tigh, which might explain why she hates him so much.
I've kind of got to the point now alas where I watched so many of the episodes so many moons ago that I have very little idea whats occurring most of the time. Hope it all works out satisfactorily
Still, it looks all grey and washed out, so thats nice...
I think they were going for the Bergman 'Chess With Death' effect. Worked really well in my opinion.
Also good work from my favourite aspect of this show: The soundtrack. Lots of atonal chord clusters. Luv it.
After this weeks show...
I've gotten to the point where I now barely know who anyone is, where anything is going, what the point of any of it all may be and whether or not I care anyway.
There are 2 episodes left after Tuesdays.
And yet every week the story widens, gets more confused and introduces new characters.
A year ago, I'd have argued that it was one of the best pieces of TV ever made. Now, it seems to be just a bloated mess of a show spinning out of control.
I pray I'm wrong and that all this will make sense...
no bloated spralling plots there
The overwhelming feeling of every episode in this second part of the new season if anything, has been of events constricting, not widening - hence the necessity of devoting a couple of episodes to hardcore exposition for each core group of characters - and of the central mass of actors within the story being gradually whittled down to the essentials as plot-strands are tied off and the characters finally act on the agendas that in previous seasons were only hidden or at best, hinted at.
The feeling I'm getting is of the satisfying kind - all the pieces coming together. Maybe it's because I watched the first three series on DVD instead of TV which may have allowed me to get a better feel in general for where every character is at and what's going on.
Or maybe you've just not been paying attention; because to be honest, what attracted me to this series is that the writing (unlike other sci-fi) was heavily character driven and, most importantly, not bloated by masses of internal mythology that keeps fans happy, but excludes newbies from participation. While I accept that the last bunch of episodes have piled on the mythos - as long as you keep characters in mind, the way they're reacting to each revelation keeps the drama ticking over nicely.
The last episode is a case in point - how did you not enjoy the bit with the piano? And how Tyrol (whose attitude I didn't buy only two eps ago) now suddenly makes sense with his actions?
Sort it out, son.
I think it's been completely on track this series. It's good enough right now that it's making the slightly questionable previous two series seem much better in retrospect. It's all there: Cavil has been the main force driving the destruction of the colonies and burying of the old skool cylon five; cylons and humans (it seems) have a shared makeup. Starbuck is.. well, I think we know what she is by now. The only big thing left to be explained is the cylon in Baltar's head.
And I think Saul Tigh has turned out to be the best character in it..
Fucking word on Tigh. Considering he started out as Adama's drunken buttboy, where he's at now is writer's genius.
I still don't have a clue what Starbuck's supposed to be though.
And when is Tory going to pay for her crime? This is mainly what I'm interested in.
- How Six never got exposed as being the mole that caused the holocaust.
- What occurred between Gaeta and Baltar on New Caprica as eluded to in the court case
- What the link is between Baltar and the Six visions he has
- Why on earth Baltar has his own personal harem (last weeks where they amassed all that weaponry got cut, so apparently we missed the 10 minutes or so that would have made that scene make some sense - it was Adama weighing up whether to use Baltars harem to defend the food stores or ship over some Centurions)
- How Cavil & Boomer found Galactica last week
- The whole 'dying leader will never see Earth' thread
- The bit where it said the Cyclons had 'a plan' in the intro
- Tigh's baby. So what was that all about then given this weeks show? I'm guessing they just killed that unborn character off to bring Hera to the forefront once more.
There's a few for a start...
I didn't mind this weeks episode, and got a vague sense of the 'ooooh' factor when it all came together at the piano, even if it was somewhat predictable. And certainly watching series 3 and 4 over a long period of time hasn't help me working out which Six is which, and how many versions of Grace Park are looking hot and where.
But I just feel like there are characters left, right and centre losing the plot and not doing things like they'd normally do.
One minute the Chief wants to leave Galactica, the next he's busting a gut to save it. Roslyn's selfish attitude a few shows back was ridiculous, and all of a sudden she's back to her old leading self. And Baltar is still a huge mess of a character. I've given up trying to work out where he's going...
It 'feels' like things are kind of coming to an end on the one hand. And at the same time, like they're spreading outwards as convenient ways to get a few of us long term fans to engage with 'Caprica' when it comes out...
Q. How has Six not been exposed as being the mole that caused the holocaust.
A. The humans in general have no idea one particular cylon was responsible for the holocaust, nor I suspect do they care - especially now. And Roslin is the only one who knows Baltar was the source of the leak - and he's the only one who knows Caprica Six as distinct from all the other Sixes.
Q. What occurred between Gaeta and Baltar on New Caprica as eluded to in the court case
A. I'm guessing it was all the people Geata inadvertently sent to their deaths on New Caprica.
Q. What the link is between Baltar and the Six visions he has
A. Fuck knows. Still time to clear that up though.
Q. Why on earth Baltar has his own personal harem.
A. I don't really understand the way you've phrased this. Why does he have a harem? Because he's a pimp. They got the weapons because as far as I could see, Adama had his hands full with some other shit last week, and Baltar was dead right when he said having Centurions on the ship would be a mistake. Whether things get rectified remains to be seen.
Q. How Cavil & Boomer found Galactica last week
A. If we believe the conjecture that all Cavil was interested in was capturing Hera, it's no problem to assume he knew where the fleet was all along.
Q. The whole 'dying leader will never see Earth' thread
A. We know what Roslin thinks of that now: "Blah blah, frakkin' blah". Not an issue.
Q. The bit where it said the Cyclons had 'a plan' in the intro
A. I'm guessing this will be covered in the episode entitled "The Plan". If not, then we can bitch.
Q. Tigh's baby. So what was that all about then given this weeks show? I'm guessing they just killed that unborn character off to bring Hera to the forefront once more.
A. Why does it have to be about anything? Why did Dee kill herself? How come Baltar doesn't seem to give a fuck about the Six he was so dedicated to before? I think at best, it was another sign Cylons can't procreate, and at worst - Ellen killed the baby, somehow. But I haven't got anything to back that up so file it under 'fanboy conjecture'.
For more on this watch the "Face of the Enemy" webisodes (or read an online synopsis somewhere)
I always wondered why they made such a big fuss in the courtroom scene of Baltar's trial about their link on New Caprica, then never explained it away any further...
I can't fathom out why on Earth they weren't part of the main show?
They explain why Gaeta suddenly flipped out and started the coup, why his attitude to Cylons changed, what happened on New Caprica and were not side plots, but pretty key to understanding the direction the show was heading in.
Glad I've seen them now, they make for a pretty damn good episode.
You've thought about this far more than me...
Thanks for clearing up some of that stuff however. A lot of that was lost on me, or in some cases I'd argue lost in translation.
I think this review sums up PERFECTLY how I've come to feel about the show in general:
Mainly because it agrees with me that Chief's behaviour recently has been very out of character admittedly...
Regarding Baltar and my comment, I just don't get what they've done with his character in this series or where the worth was in any of this whole 'harem' story arc they introduced. He was always fascinating and complex, but this series he's become the compulsory 'ah, but what if...' character who deals in mixed messages, vague proverbs and pointless waffle. The only moment I saw flashes of the old Baltar was when he was on the Cyclon Baseship. Maybe that's massively important? Maybe it isn't? Who knows?
The problem is, I'm fast getting to the point of also adding a 'Who cares?' to the end of that sentence...
2 or 3 more episodes to go!
PS. Regarding this paragraph of yours Stealthy:
"Or maybe you've just not been paying attention; because to be honest, what attracted me to this series is that the writing (unlike other sci-fi) was heavily character driven and, most importantly, not bloated by masses of internal mythology that keeps fans happy, but excludes newbies from participation."
I've watched since day 1. I've also watched The Wire from start to finish. I didn't expect a huge firefight at the end of everything or loads of old school 'toasters' to turn up. I DID however expect there to be some kind of consistency in the writing of key characters, and I feel personally like some have devolved, betrayed the hard work put into them in previous series or merely fizzled out...
Who were you thinking of? To be honest, the only character whose apparent direction I'm not entirely happy about is Baltar, and I'm fairly certain they can rectify this in the time they have left.
Adama hasn't really moved on character wise, just skulked around repeating himself. But then I supoose he's always been a fairly consistent one dimensional part. And Roslyn's decision to turn her back on her duties and go jogging seemed very out of context.
Tigh has been great, and I though Dee's resolution was superb. But Baltar has been very directionless, and I will never get how Chief went from being gutted at being a Cylon, to denouncing fatherhood, before voting to leave Galactica then reaccepting his post on deck and finally to what he did this week. He's all over the shop, and some of these actions only really suit him as they help move the story on rather than his character.
I also can't help feeling that half of Anders speech the other week was purely to give the spin off series Caprica something to work with, and force us BSGers to tune in to see how some of these plot threads are resolved (if it doesn't get canceled before they can be).
I still like the programme, and it's had some great moments this season, don't get me wrong. It just feels like it 'could' have been great rather than very, very good.
Roslin's decision to fuck everything off and go jogging makes perfect sense when you note that she'd just recently found out that actually she wasn't the saviour of mankind, but just someone with an out-of-date guidebook, and also that she'd quit her cancer treatment, which has the effect of giving you excess energy.
As for Adama being one-dimensional, well that's just unfair. It's a military drama - so it's not so surprising that we see characters generally acting in one manner continuously. But then when you recall that he started off the series as a sad old man, about to retire, hawkish in temprament and estranged from his son - you can't say any of that now. Also, I dunno if you've noticed all the drinking and pill popping he's been doing lately - I think something fucked is about to happen to him.
As for the Chief, I don't think he was gutted at finding out he was a cylon. He was the fastest to accept it when the four of them found out. And his behaviour makes sense to me bearing in mind he's having to deal with still being attached to the crew and his job (which explains why he agreed to do the fixing even as he was voting to do the ship), and the death of the wife.
All that said, one thing I do agree with is the whole Anders coma speech - that was hardcore exposition - even though we knew that the whole Final Five thing was going to lead to a scene like that anyway.
In truth, the show needed some to keep it on track. But yeah, it was very heavy handed. He came across like a hybrid, but I sense that this scene was deliberately planned that way. Coupled with the Galactica now being full of Cylon juice, hell... maybe Galactica is turning into a baseship itself.
Well I disagree about Chief still but can see your points on the other characters. I also have no idea how he's supposed to have dragged a cylon through the ship, swapped her with a prisoner in maximum security and smuggled out Boomer.
But as this is a series about robots that look like humans floating around in space following a pre-ordained destiny, I guess in the grand scheme of things I can let that one go...
I think I maybe had too high hopes for the show. Due to its twisty turny nature perhaps I've expected too much, or read things into characters and story arcs that simply weren't there.
It just all feels a bit heavy handed to me of late, with 20 to 30 minutes of slightly convoluted and patchy dialogue and then a frenzied last 10 keeping you glued to next weeks mini-revelation. And I always preferred the episodes where it didn't feel the need to do that.
is definitely the most rock 'n' roll on here.
Tomorrow, I'm starting one up about the benefits of TIE Interceptors over TIE bombers...
on someone actually being visited by god.
in one of the recent episodes reference is made to warnings that the final five received before the attack on earth that saved their lives, warnings from people that only they could see.
so my theory is that either they all received a visitation from god, or gaius is a cylon.
i like the last option best, but either way gaius had better be central to the conclusion of this show. i reckon he slightly pip's tigh for the best character award.
this become the best internet thread ever posted on the internet website drowdidsowd.com. Kudos.
But conversely, it did feel like precisely nothing happened whatsoever.
And what is it with America's love of shitty Irish folk music? 'Titanic' used that sound so disgustingly you'd hope it would now be banned, and yet it STILL crops up regularly in U.S. TV / films. I expect better of BSG than using the same lazy shortcut to effectively say 'sad yet hopeful times are here (but they're underpinned by a subtext of hard-grafting history)'...
To be fair, that's the Adama's theme. It pops up in those kinds of circumstances throughout the series.
Also: Quit your bitching - this was an awesome episode. People getting sucked into the icy nothingness of space is always gold. Starbuck's secret exposed - more gold. Anders the hybrid - massive gold. Boomer with a conscience - gold, though she still has to die.
in the second series wasn't it? I think it's lovely.
This was an absolutely necessary episode to set up the final ones. A moment of reflection between Adama and Tigh about the loss of the old girl (do we really think that she's going to be salvaged by the rest of the fleet, or.. as Adama suggested, is she going to go out in style..?). Anders the hybrid who -can jump the ship-. Little Hera can project. Reminders about visions and angels; I think this is all stuff that we're going to need to remember in the next couple of weeks.
Messy deaths for Boomer and Cally-killer please. Also for Cavil to be killed by Galactica like Ming the Merciless at the end of Flash Gordon.
I just hate it. And it somehow feels more out of place now than it has done beforehand, due to all the ongoing doom.
I'm not trying to have a fight with you on a weekly basis Stealthy, and have been a big fan of the show throughout, and it was a good episode this week, just not a 'gold' one in my eyes.
The Boomer storyline strand was very good, and very important I'm guessing. The Anders being a hybrid arc was also good viewing, even if we spotted it a few weeks back (see another thread we both contributed to), but that doesn't stop it being a good idea.
I personally wasn't quite so sure what the deal was with Starbuck. That whole scene seemed a bit forced and provided a little bit of character closure, but I guess I'm just not such a fan of this whole Baltar / angel-watcher / religious leader aspect of these latter series.
Ultimately, the best character in it this week was the aging battlestar itself.
Re: Fight - Oh, I know. Not every dispute on the internet has to be some sort of Vikram-esque soap opera. But that said, the only reason I come into these threads now is to continue your re-education.
I'm in agreement with you about Baltar more than ever this week. I think it's because prior to this fourth season, it looked like they were setting him up as being some kind of pivotal god being who would either deliver everyone from evil, or fuck up the entire universe.
As it stands now, he's nothing more than some con-artist who happens to be able to see a Six. I mean, what the fuck is up with the Six still?! How did he survive the nuke? I believe they will explain these things, but in a satisfactory manner? I dunno.
Everything else is great though. And BSG really does have the best music of any TV series I can remember. You can tell that more thought goes into the soundtrack than perhaps any other aspect of the show.
I was kind of hoping that, as everything else had been so faithful to the original show in a manner, Baltar would somehow come to fill that role he did in the original series. Maybe he still will?
But right now his character has lost its way for me, as you say.
And I agree on the music as a whole; superb throughout. Except, like I say, that Irish thingy that wheel out sometimes...
So is it 2 episodes left now or just the extended final one?
Hell if I know. The episode is listed as having three parts. But they could show it all at once, or split it into two parts, or... whatever.
I just want good closure on the Baltar story. Everyone else can die in an ugly hull malfunction for all I care.
one hour next friday, two the friday after.
god knows what sky will do. I torrent it, then buy the dvd's.
I take it you all noticed the OLD SCHOOL CYLON RAIDERS ?
Though I did in Razor obviously.
Was it in the part where Boomer got back to the basestar?
They mentioned the old school cylons AGAIN this week briefly. I wonder...
'Skill' when I was at school.
Just read a synopsis of Baltar's role in the original series. Quite a few interesting parallels...
If they do have any original Cyclons in these last episodes, I PRAY they're not those terribly animated ones in Razor...
the whole series has riffed off of the original series quite a lot
The whole angels thing was present in the "ship of lights" stories. if you remember Starbuck's mural- the ship of light was actually depicted quite clearly in that. Also if you remember when they were listing the angels that the final five saw that told them to vacate earth- everyone saw people except the chief. you can just make out that he saw a ship.
Also there was the whole "terra" subplot in the original series, it is still possible that this place called "earth" that they found was not the last "earth "we see in the series.
But I barely remember it now. Any idea if its on youtube to jog the old memory?
both the classic and new series are up on hulu.
also for some original series back ground.
I was actually wondering about the bit you mention about Chief. Was that Series 3?
I don't own that one on DVD. Yet.
I'd like to know this too.
P.S. Super awesome documentary about the music of BSG: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxzvIlVnCPA
half an hour in, anders tells them the warning signs they saw, you can make out the words ship and in your I took this to mean "ship in your head"
been a bit of talk that Cavil mirrors Count Iblis/Lucifer from the old series.. (the 'cast-out' angel)
is HOW THE HELL DID HE SURVIVE THE HOLOCAUST ON CAPRICA IN THE FIRST PLACE? it's been bugging me since the mini series.. i would love for there to be a twist regarding that...
Maybe he's whatever Starbuck is?
Or perhaps maybe they just won't ever answer that bit...
The implication at the time was that the big Tricia Hefner woman had sheltered him with her meaty frakkin' toaster body (which had been killed in the process). I'm not sure that this is a viable way of surviving a nuclear assault in reality (dive behind the biggest woman you can find).
may only work if said lady has recently snapped a baby's neck like a twig
Gutted. I had to go back and check.
I'm going to torrent it too. And sit myself down for the full two hours.
I think Baltar's 'angel' thing is very interesting now. He seems to be seeing her almost constantly, and once again seems to be guiding him into doing bad things. But Starbuck had an angel too; one who guided her towards figuring out the melody. Caprica 6 also saw one (a version of Baltar who urged her to start the rebellion, I think).
My feeling is that they're tied in with the visions; something to do with everyone, humans and cylons, having some shared genetic component. A vestigial version of projection, or something..
I find it odd some of the scenes they've cut from this series. Those webisodes would have helped explain Gaeta's actions a lot better. Still, at least I saw them in the long run.
And its a shame they had to cut this from last weeks show: "Bear McCreary reveals there is an extended scene on the DVD which shows Chief Tyrol is being held in Galactica's brig for his part in Boomer's escape".
just as they are about to put Anders in for surgery, he has a mild asphasia attack, then regains his control, and tells the final five about their visions. It's very fast.
there are huge chunks missing in the episode where Baltar gets the guns that really explain why Adama would arm him.. i hope they get those dvd's out soon.
I actually meant this bit this time!
Yeah that sequence being cut meant that scene was a bit out of place too. Still, hopefully the DVD's will rectify this