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your thoughts plz
In Heaven everything is alright
you've got your good thing
and I've got mine
but on the other hand...
Heaven is a place
so it basicaly depends if you are a fan of the Pixies or Talking Heads I think.
I should.....feels good
you have made a great thread. i think paradise lost teaches us that to rebel against heaven and serve in hell is an amazing idea in theory, and appeals to our pride and lust for power, but ultimately you would have to come to terms with living in hell, which is a pretty bleak concept.
also, you have to take into account the idea of epistemic distance, as your question presumes the existence of hell and heaven. lucifer felt physical pain at being away from God, and assuming that the same would aply to us, it would be enough argument to decide to serve in heaven. even if you take the option of ruling in hell, you are still God's subject and he is your maker. the epistemic distance would make your life/afterlife miserable.
what do you think rick?
A part of me would like to rule in hell, but I think that would be just an ego talking. Serving in heaven would be not accepting the best for myself but something external that I could come to terms with. I think it could be argued that it's a question of ego vs self esteem.
comment on the jewish/christian idea of heaven and hell.....in which case it would obviously be hell, since most of us are like Lucifer in that we are not obediant servents happy not to question.
Lucifer seems to me merely to have curiosity, to have questioned, to not just accept the paternal order.....and that surely is what make humans most human, our questioning, searching for reason, meaning, proof.....it seems to be part of our animal essence. The Goddess would expect us to be questioning and inquisitive, that is how we are made......it seems that from the stories that relate to lucifers fall, that the jewish/christian god, does not.
Of course he goddess hasnt got anything to prove as her matriarchy is not in doubt, she obviously did birth us and nurture us and all living things, and we never really question that as we know that we eat, breath and poo and are born and die, and walk on her ground.
God on the other hand is on much more tenuous ground, he only exists as long as you believe that he does, he is only idas in peoples heads so i guess that he has to aggressively/jealously guard against disbelief, and is understandably less tolerant of questioning/curiosity
if you take the stories of heaven/hell god/lucifer importantly (which some people do) then these questioning christians are siding with the devil (according to other people who call themelves christian) Yet they still maintain the nomenclature of christian......this gives rise to much unfortunateness whereby people who object to some christians pronouncements seem to slag off christianity, including some christians who are reasonable and in effect are being called bad by the other christians tht we object too......its all to complicated and difficult, simply because they all assemble under one banner/flag and some of them are terrible whereas some of them are not, it sometimes make me want to have a go at christians in general, although this is, to a degree patly their mistake as well, as they tend to be the ones that define people as 'christian' or not
but I'm pretty certain his story is told in the previous volume, and then comes up again every now and then
but oddly enough seems to have been one of the most critically acclaimed at the time of release.
Watch this, it's Neil Gaiman talking about a Sandman arc he had the idea for but never wrote. It's actually an answer to a question I asked, but whoever filmed it cut my question out :(
I was at the event.
so I don't remember exactly. It was to do with him ever fearing that his works, which are often steeped in myth and religion-like beliefs, would be considered offensive or controversial considering how sensitive a topic faith had become.
rather than the one I asked. Still, it's interesting enough if you're a Sandman fan.
where joy forever dwells,
Hail Horrors Hail
he chose wrong
that was his crime apparently.
Its like god didnt really give adam and eve a choice, its like he said.....'see that red button there whatever you do dont press it, if you love me you wont press it'
then along comes lucifer/serpant/human psyche/curiosity and says "arnt you interested to find out what the alternative is.....how can you appreciate what you have even, if you don't know what the alternative is?"
then immediately you repond to your human animal nature/curiosity god throws a tantrum.........now sorry but if you've made humans in your own image and they have innate curiosity then you are just throwing a wobbly at yourself......god chucking adam and eve out of eden seems like a cae of self hatred on gods part to my eyes, but then again i would say that as i am 'from the other side'
....it is very hard work though, but getting easier