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What do you think?
and they're Professors or something.
See what I did there....
Is this a statement of fact, or a question? Where's the bit that says "Discuss"?
TERRIBLE. You've let everyone down. Including yourself and your family. Youre middle class family are bitterly disappointed.
I know I am.
And upper class kids get even further than them. We have now figured out the class system!
Next week: 6 is a higher number than 4.
I'm ridiculously behind with my school work, and there's this other girl in my class in exactly the same predicament. Yet i've been given a slap on the wrists and told to do the work. She's being threatened with expulsion.
Class is the only thing we don't have in common.
for which you require some sort of financial backing and to be at a certain level in your field, and you really couldn't get there because it was so massively overcrowded with people who got their jobs because daddy knows someone in the company, or who have the time to develop the skills and contacts they need to get there because they don't have to work full time because they're in their mid twenties and still live off their nest egg?
snap to it.
more money = less pressure to earn money + more free time = the leisure to pursue your dreams in life (which is why there are very few working class bands, filmmakers, artists (and art school students) etc. etc.)
i'm only listing creative occupations there, cos that's my area, but i'm sure if you go into any field of anything, the funnest and best jobs are taken by middle class people because the working class ones were too busy working their arses off and didn't have the parental financial support to ever get anywhere.
which isn't to say that no working class people make it. but they have it a lot tougher, and so much less of them do.
Im just not as dignified as you
God knows how many Tarquins and Jemimas would drown if the suburban gene pool deepened slightly
drugs and knocking someone up or getting knocked up, yes. However i find particularly up north its the lower and upper classes who own businesses and have more long term success financially. My cousin got expelled and became a tyre changer dude now 10 years on he owns the place where as i for all my education and travel dont.
Working class probably have almost as good opportunities to go to uni and all that these days, but they're just not really expected to in the same way, so don't.
I've been really surprised at the number of people I've met at uni from middle class families who aren't that interested in the subject they;re doing, they're only at uni because it's expected.
how the expectations of how far someone should go dictates what they do.
if looks could kill they probably will in games without frontiers, war without tears.
should be held in far greater esteem than education and university though, as they are not entirely synomynous
and speak more like yoda with his confusing syntax pls :)
books, knowledge not always found in
the idea of the paths being there, and all the state help in taking them in the world, can't contest with the fact that the majority of the world's organisations, educational establishments, and most of the other institutions that take people through life to 'getting there', wherever that may be, are run by middle class people who are always going to prefer and get on better with their own.
who gets a job as a journalist, the middle class kid who's travelled the world or the working class kid who hasn't? 9 times out of 10 the result is a given. i don't think it'd be too much of a stretch to say that class issues are up there with race and gender in terms of discrimination. you wouldn't know this unless you've been on the receiving end.
There are many obstacles along the path to financial/career success and social mobility, many of which can never really be completely overcome and really need addressing. There are also plenty of people willing to let themselves be beaten.
a joke I don't get or DiS being crazy?
You win this time _vikram
If I'd linked you to manga-style pictures of people being beaten, George Bush would have eaten your soul
being from a working class background myself
if you haven't had to work a fuck of a lot harder to get where you are now than your middle class contemporaries, and will have to continue to do so, AND, if you have got anywhere, you should consider yourself (as should I) extremely lucky because for every one of you or me, there are a lot of people who will never approach where they want to be in life, and it's not their fault.
but yeah I had to do some other things and make a little sacrifice here and there and I'm not complaining. I'm extremely grateful for everything in life. You either have a victim mentality about it or you get off your ass and do something.
they're complaining about what it's impossible for other people to do, despite their effort. if you're saying that because something worked a certain way for you, then that must be true for everyone else in a comparable situation, then you're an idiot.
no need to get personal
but you weren't really only speaking for yourself were you? you were being just a tad self righteous:
"the opportunities are there for anyone with enough sense to take action."
implying that people who don't get anywhere in life are senseless? and that because you made it, it must be possible? i wasn't saying it was impossible (though it often is), but that it happens a lot less often and that's really often not for want of effort and many, many failed attempts to "take action".
but it's not impossible
perhaps some of my 'disadvantage' is built into me, i don't see being rich as a virtue, or even desirable since I don't see my mum (being poor) or my poor upbringing being a vice or a bad thing, particularly, except for occasionally her being sneered at by middle class mores, unfortunately she affected some of these mores herself to escape from the sneering and criticism, something that i don't love her for, but i don't blame her for it either, its understandable, however I have a certain amount of distain for certain types of middle class values, and the attempts to pepetuate them
so i have never managed to get much money cos i dont love it.
However in sophias thread i did say io would for 5 million, because i don't consider this as much selling your soul as changing what you would do everyday in your life to achieve getting 5 million the normal way
the opportunities are there for anyone with enough sense to take action.
to shop in sainsburies and ikea/habitat, to go to tuscany for a holiday? I dont really knowwhat defines class now, consumer choices?
Isnt university more of a consumer choice now?
I was a working class kid with five A grade A Levels who could not get an interview at Oxford, Nottingham, Kings College or UCL.
I got a good 2.1 law degree from a lesser university and then a distinction on the legal practice course, and I now have some solid work experience.
Still, after 50+ applications, I have had one interview with a city law firm.
If I was middle class kid I'd have been snapped up by a top university, I'd have had "contacts" and would have walked into a city firm. A friend of mine recently proved this, who with her Oxbridge education, despite having no legal work experience and having only just begun her legal conversion course, has been offered a training contract after her first application.
If I was a middle class kid
Despite 50+ applications I've never been
I was raised in a low income family on a shitty rundown council estate in a shitty rundown borough and went to various poorly funded and underachieving state schools.
I'm now 23, with an arts degree and a £20k+ office job, financially independent with no dependents and renting privately. Am I middle class?
I'll always consider myself working class. But if my life was to develop as it seems it will over the next 20 years, my kids (should I have any) most probably won't.
What I'm wondering really is if there is such a thing as social mobility in terms of identity. No matter how my circumstances change, I'll always see myself as working class.
and how you would want your children to grow up thinking about others and the inequality in the world, that matters as to whether you would be a class traitor or not.
[bites top lip, nods thoughtfully while looking you STRAIGHT in the eye]
We'll live and die in these towns.
That is my contrib to this discush.
are lovely people but terribly dull and a bit boring when forced to use imagination in anything from music to clothes to jobs to girlfriends even, so for all the comfy upbringing and education, it won't buy you an interesting if tormented aura. Or something