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chug chug chug!
Mirri in this case on earlier thread.
Me with a hangover (hate taking paracetamol with hangover as liver is working hard enough to get rid of toxins).
I try to go alternative when I have to... and herbal. It's much better for you than putting synthetics into your system.. think about it.
In most cases, the active ingredient that makes (some) herbal remedies actually work is what man made medicine is made of. There's no difference.
I'm all for holistic stuff though.
Also, Mirri is a jehovah's witness??
but I was reading something recently about them refusing blood transplants but am sure they probably do take synthetic medicines but probably not - - oh i don't know...
similar (but not quite so dramatic chemicals) overall you might have to take a slightly larger dose but it would be more rounded and less 'extreme' Although the opposite can also occur this rounding sometimes allows combinations of plants can be taken with less side effects than just the most brutally effective (if the most effective chemical is antagonistic to the other chemical that is taken in combination)
Basically i find that the claims from both sides of the argument can be too extreme.
You know what is ridiculous? Medicines that are created from meidcal use - by drug companies etc, are alpped with huge taxes, and it takes up to a decade of leaping through beurocratic hoops to get them to a state of being allowed to be used. Fucking holistic medicines are allowed to be untaxed, and used unregulated cos get this, the bastards themselves claim "we are NOT medicines, you cant tax us or regulate us for being them"
they wont be classified as alternative,or holisitic,then,would they?
Well its not really a matter of that.
These guys dont care wether it works or kills you,its a matter of making money.
If it did work, they would just carry on selling it as alternative, sthey wernt taxed by the government, or sell the patent on to an actual medical agency for a ridiculous price
I'm all for a holistic approach to health. I don't think a magic pill society is a good thing but herbal medicines are equally regarded as a 'magic pill'.
I don't understand the objection.
Holistic medicine claims its not a medicine, just so it doesnt have to wait to be properly regulated (i.e made sure it safe), or taxed per unit sold - just so they can make money. Ok, people who want to buy it can buy it, but surely there is some immorality in claming your a cure - a medicine, but then claiming youre not.
when I say the 'holistic approach' though I meant not the holistic medicine, like the overall lifestyle thing they do. I think that's cool. I wasn't aware they didn't have to pay proper taxes hahaha genius
The lifestyle is acceptable - I mean, youre pretty much using things that naturally will help us. There are natural beta blockers, anesthetics, analgesics etc out there. Medicine just creates artificial versions of these that minimise side effects/ make their activity work better - why would anyone not want this?
Take in the treatment for asthma - theres loads of natural bronchodilators out there, but the problem is that the receptors in the lung tract, are beta like the recptors in the ehart, so when trying to dilate the lungs to help breathing, you are increasing the heart rate ridiculously - i.e heart attack. Salbutamol, or an artifical drug creates slectivity so that the beta type 2 receptors of the lungs are only activated, and the heart isnt affected.
there's often just one 'active ingredient' that makes a herbal solution work (I think St Johns Wart, Ginseng, Ginko and a few others have shown to work in double blind tests). With a man made medicine all they're doing is taking the active ingredient you might find in a herbal solution and purifying it. It's the same thing. I think people are just paranoid.
also it's not bullshit that medicines have to jump through lots of loop holes to get into hospitals [and then into patients] it's pretty fucking necessary. Otherwise we'd have a bunch of cowboy drugs on the market that sound nice on paper but only serve to royally fuck anyone up who has it swimming in their veins.
I meant palpitation, why did I say attack? Oh well
I never claimed it was bullshit that medicines have to go through beurocratic process. The necessity of it is important. Im just trying to highlight how being a "medicine" is so taxed and regulated, whilst "alternative emdicines" can get away with going straight to market - these are the real "cowboy drugs".
tax barely comes into it. And alternative medicines are a bunch of bullshit, you're right about that.
and all of that scientific stuff as a safety guard.
They dont do that with holistic stuff do they...
if it works and its been tested same with man made medicine. I'm pretty sure science is more trust worthy with all its peer reviews and testing than without it.
man made is the shit most of the time
- Taking antibiotics weakens the immune system and makes your natural defences weaken, so, over time, when you *really really* need them, you'll get a prescription and have to take a double or triple dose before they even work properly. If you're in a critical condition the previous over-use could potentially fuck you up big-time.
- The pharmaceutical industry are on a par with estate agents, employment agents and generally all job descriptions ending in "agent" (with the exception of "special agent", which is allowed). Why do I want to give them my money?
- Taking pills at the drop of a hat is the sign of a massive pussy. MTFU, sneeze, cough, blow your nose and drink some brandy.
- Over (admittedly, very long periods of) time, nations become immune to antibiotics because they're taken so frequently and the insects or bugs just harden up and become more extreme and spread around even worse diseases that we're just not used to. I'm sorry I can't be more technical on this point but I'm sure S_A can clarify. Things that kill humans adapt and still want to kill, so why weaken yourself by becoming a victim?
Sheesh I sound like such a hippy.
and they hold back certain kinds as a safe guard for when the first one really really doesn't work. They are pretty careful with it from my limited knowledge.
I've been prescribed anti-depressents at the drop of a hat when I really didn't need them; my immune system was also fucked for six or seven years due to copious amounts of antibiotics in my teens for ear nose and throat infections. Really what they should've done was send me away and said "cope with it", eventually it will go away. Which is pretty much what I do now.
Admittedly not taking a pill for a headache or breast pain or whatever may seem a bit extreme, but I've been around scientists researching blood clots due to regular intakes of paracetamol (thins the blood stream) and came to the conclusion that unless your body is in a state of non-recovery (and it DOES often just heal itself over time) - thanks, but no.
And you are right, they do hold certain drugs back as a safeguard - but if you're someone who has regularly taken them whenever the doctor says "jump", they are much less likely to be able to actually work on you.
I dont think I've had many antibiotics at all.
I guess if its over done then its really not going to help you out at all.
is just like a pathetic sop.
Antibax have been massively and irresponsibly used, not only in medicine (where it used to be routine to say, oh its an infection here you go...gives script)
to giving antibax as routine in food to farm animals cos it increases growth rate and profit.
Think this soent affect you, wrong, salmonella strains in poultry grow resistance to antibax used routinely in this way.
Way back when I was a kid in the 60's i became aware that it was known that mis/over use of antibax is something that reduces all humanities options against harmful bacterium.
Completely new antibax come along really really really rarely.
Do not forsake or take the gift of antibax so lightly.
doesnt affect humans
I and I REALLY don't believe you don't take pills for any of those reasons. Sound like rationalisations to me. It's ok to say you just don't feel like it. You know what I mean.
To deal with those rationalisations though:
- Taking antibiotics only weakens the system if you take them an awful lot.
- So what the pharmaceutical industry is a business? That may not be nice but that's how it is and they're making medicines that save people's lives and they could save your life one day too.
- Taking pills at the drop of a hat - yeah I'd probably agree
- You don't really think about all that though when you're taking pills to lower critically high blood pressure or what not though do you
- I agree, but doctors happily prescribe them too often; most people will just do what the doctor says and neither party considers the long-term consequences.
- I'll send you some links to some pharmaceutical industry stories at the weekend, they're basically salesmen, it's got nothing to do with the quality of the drugs (thelodomide? sp) - read that story.
- Yes, not wise.
- Hey it's different for people who actually need to lower blood pressure and have serious problems; what I am saying is don't put yourself in a position that when you really need those drugs to work for you, they simply don't.
how could people put themselves in a position where blood pressure lowering drugs stopped working for them?
why the fuck are you so fucking angry about it?
and why would they have been taking the exact same drug previous to where they 'really need(ed)' it to work for them? I'm not getting angry but it does piss me off when people throw out all sorts of shit and pass it off as medical fact. It can be dangerous and as a middle-aged woman you should know better.
It's personal experience. Not just my own but of people being ill around me.
Do me a favour, in future before you post patronising statements about middle-age, either ask around (elder) relatives, read medical journals or just shut the fuck up when you too have no scientific evidence to link to, nor apparently any life experience of such issues.
like fuck have you experienced people become resistant to drugs, which latter comes back to haunt them when they 'really need it'. It's always fucking middle-aged woman. Oh wow, you've had a friend who's had cancer, you read a few articles on the web, yeah that makes you a fucking expert on such. And yes, you we're stating them as fact. And knowing how some fucktards eat up any shit that you say it is pretty fucking dangerous. Your basically telling people, or indirectly advising them from your own oh so wise experience, not to take medication. Do you know how fucking retarded that is to say?
you're taking the internet so seriously that you're suggesting people can't form their own opinions on stuff from their own life experiences! Dispute what I've experienced if you really like, I couldn't give a flying fuck. And patronise away; you're not actually my problem and never will be!
Being so closed-minded is YOUR problem. I'll leave you to deal with that young lady. When you're sitting in your room on your own in France because you don't have the social skills to deal with people your own age, let alone someone who's ten years older than you.
You won't reply to my posts and I won't reply to yours. Is this agreement now broken again? I'd rather it wasn't for the sake of mutual friends so why don't you just stay the hell away.
you come back and spout your self-righteous bullshit when you're actually in a position to do so. otherwise I suggest you maintain a healthy silence.
you mistook her too.
I'd giggle if I could be arsed.
she's in France, sorry.
She's calling me a liar and I've worked in the medical industry and she doesn't know me from shit so can't comment on my life experience yet chooses to attack me *shrugs*. A friend of yours?
Check the names.
It's alcoholic. But thanks for the vote of support.
I wonderered why you'd suddenly got such a strop on.
Didn't seem in character for you.
Like I'm going to take a lesson in morals from a loser like you. I think she knows it was a mistake and will leave it. Like grown-ups do. Ever read about grown-ups Vikram?
If you want to continue this conversation please do it by PM.
'young lady'? Is that meant to be a joke?
I said at the start it would lead to this. Confusion amongst the ranks, friendly fire...
That was alcoholic not me posting...
...But thanks for that, anyway.
Just drinking water and moaning a lot works for me. However, Lemsip Max Capsules save my life everytime the man-flu comes a-knockin'. Due a bout soon actually.
Also, when I had an infected cyst on my back the doctor prescribed me the strongest penicillin she could to prevent septicemia!
Basically I tend to only take drugs if it's serious.
i don't understand why they'd suffer through faith when if we are made in Gods image then the medicine we make must be somewhat endorsed by God too.
but killing people generally isn't
which is where asperins active ingrediant was recognised.
Why not use this rather than bay leaves? it would be far more useful
she says it's "unnatural"
I hate when people say this about medicine or RE: organic foods being "more natural". Everything that exists is natural. There's nothing unnatural that exists, ever. Everything that exists is a product of nature unless it is divine, which paracetemol certainly isn't. I'm sure there's a case for it being bad for you health-wise or not the healthiest way to deal with something, but using the word "natural" is often so fallacious and completely elitist.
to a certain extent. They're natural inventions, but as with anything, should only really be taken in moderation.
it's just the abuse of the word "natural" which riles me.
i love you joshua
This is not an argument that should be done over the internet
It should be done face to face with diagrams and exagerrative arm movements
people who take paracetamol all the time piss me off. From my very limited knowledge your body does build up an immunity to certain drugs, hence why drugs companies release slightly modified products every couple of years. So i can understand mirris point. A lot of people take certain drugs like paracetamol as a quick fix when your body will heal itself of its own accord, it cant be a good thing.
Still works with me.
is probably a sign of their diminshing effects.