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It is a bit inappropriate. I can't see this change is going to ruin anyone's life so any change that stems from it can only be positive
it's a solution to a problem that doesn't exist. Visibility over practicality.
And using a ban as a 'first-line' intervention strategy is.. well, it's not an encouraging approach. You start with a light touch, then move up. Where are these extra security staff for public transport?
I would have thought this was an appropriate first-line strategy for anti-social behaviour.
would be dissuasion. Never have I seen any suggestion that the act of drinking on the tube is contributing to antisocial behaviour; not from tube staff, nor and advertising material on the tube. I'm not sure whether you see it the same way, but every time I see a new ban, it seems like an admission of failure that we were unable to achieve those goals in a better way.
It's been said countless times below, but the real problem is more difficult to tackle: how to handle people who are going to be 'antisocial' down there regardless of whether there's a drink in their hand or whether they downed it at the station. This is more staff: who will cost a wee bit more than a few posters in stations.
I'd suggest this could actually lead to more drunk people on trains: people getting it down before they get on board. No evidence base; terrible policy-making.
for and against this ban are based essentially on nothing but anecdotal evidence, I can't really dismiss such an arguement.
The point I was making was that it has long been considered by many people to be rather inappropriate to drink in certain public places. And I beleive that society isn't crumbling and the real issue with anti-social behaviour is the perception of it, rather than its proliferance. Many people do feel incredibly intimidated being in a confined place in which people are drinking. They may not now actually be any safer, but they might well feel it.
Being drunk and loud is already ostensibly illegal anyway, so yes, PCSOs and Tube security staff are needed. I think the point I wanted to really get at was this is hardly a great injustice anyway, and mass outcry against it would seem a tad melodramatic
I'm not saying it's a terrible idea or anything. I do think, though, that this is exactly the kind of thing that we shouldn't really be letting slide quietly; a public ban on anything should always be cause for some pretty significant debate, and that Johnson is just pulling this out of the bag days after coming in, without conducting any kind of formal review (indeed, it all seems based on anecdotal evidence) is.. not good.
The perception factor is true, too; but raises some pretty unpleasant concepts too. All visions of a governing body that issues placebos rather than addresses real problems.
This was a policy that he always publically planned to implement, and may well have been a vote winner. I could be imagining it, but I'm sure there were stirrings of a similar nature under Livingstone?
Of course a government that routinely issued placebo policies rather than adressing real problems would be worrying. But so far this is an isloated incident and I'm sure, given Johnson's pledges, is merely the first step of a more holistic approach to the problem. We'll see in the coming months and years.
but for this to happen on the same day that the central government ignores key evidence over cannabis (another case of perceptions overriding evidence) suggests to me that it's not just Johnson (or even the Tories) for whom this is a key tactic.
So it's wrong of me to pick him out a bogeyman in the wider issue.
most journeys are pretty short, surely you can wait until you get to the other end for some alcohol?
i had a little mix up on the way as i couldnt afford to buy many drinks outside and it got me in a perfect state to arrie full of energy, confidence and woop woop
When I was 16.
but i've never noticed a particular link between those i see sipping on a drink on the tube, and anti social behaviour. this just removes choice. also see my point about quick binge drinking, with reference to downing drinks at the old kick out time...
in some tory propaganda.
underneath your name ("Gay") it will say "Young Adult"
and potentially not drinking.
I hadn't actually realised how much I hated them until I got on the tube, sober, at about 9pm on Saturday. It was fucking awful.
before recommencing drinking!
you will no longer be able to get tipsy legally. it is basscally going to mean that you either have to get to your detination then down some drink, because lets face it, drinking in central is pretty expensive, or you get drunk before your journey and therefore are a drunken nuisance on the tube. it's very unthoughtout
i could also take less illegal drugs, and in fact do.
but that's my choice, and a) i'm not the sort to get drunk and cause a ruckus, and b) it's been widely proven that drinking slowly is a much safer way to drink, which this completely goes against. PROHIBITION FAILED!
i can have fun 'any other way' but i do like to get merry and i cant afford to buy more than two drinks anywhere in lodnon.
i think not.
and why should i have to pay a much inflated price for my drinks?
we cant afford to get nicely drunk in lodnon.
but iif you want to get merry, as i know a lot of people do, then it is safer to do it slowly, i'm not suggesting that binge drinking is a good idea, but the slower you drink the safer it is, so causing a situation whereby people feel they only have a short period of time to down their drinks, will result in more people being suddenly much more drunk than they had bargained for half an hour later.
also as an aside, i've seen Boris fail to takle Henley on thames's youth drinking problem, so i'm inclined to think he doesn't have good policies
drink one on the way to the tube station, drink another on the way from the station to wherever
or just drink in a pub.
i like having a drink on my way out to somewhere.
its cheaper than waiting until the gig/club/whatever. and its fun too.
do you see?
i'm not like 'OH NO I CAN'T GET WANKERED ON THE TRAIN'....
it's a social thing. me and friends used to have fun just taking a can or bottle on the tube on the way out, if you've been drinking at home and don't want to sober up on the way, it's nice to have one on the way.
it's not drinking that's anti-social behaviour... it's being drunk, and loud. and disrespectful. does that make sense??
when i went to see 65dos at the Indigo in greenwich i took a 1.5l coke bottle and added a nice bit of vodka to it. then my girlfriend and i enjoyed this on the tube on the way there, finished it just before getting into the venue, and were then nicely tipsy when the bands started. also we then didn't have to buy many £4 pints to get nicely drunk.
the importnat thing is you both agree with ME and how right I am.
heh. that looks funny. sexactly.
if you add vodka to a bottle of coke? Surely this is only going to apply to people drinking from cans/bottles of beer, wine, etc. It's not like they can check everyones coke bottles/flasks/whatever.
but one thing leads to another.
it runs deeper than just banning booze on transport.
but its his first change and he has been in the job 2 days. Lets see what else he does.
anyone who buys lots of drinks in the seriously over-priced bars/pubs/clubs in lodnon needs to have a serious word with themselves
but i'll rise to it.
why is it for kids? i don't earn that much money, and drinking in pubs can be quite expensive. so, spirits into coke bottle... FTW.
whereas picking up fag buts is the punishment you can expect from your community service
poor logic there jackybabes
we dont want you being drunk and loud and disrespectful!
whats the got to do with Sarah being drunk?
are drunk before they get on. Ban drinking everywhere please
there is nothing wrong whatsoever in having a beer or something on the way to wherever you're going...my friends and i do it all the time and it has never resulted in antisocial behaviour/crime.
ive seen people who are pissed up on the tube of course, but the vast majority of the time its because theyve come from somewhere where theyve had afew rather than getting completely trousered on the tube or bus...absurd
..it seems a bit skanky but I'm a snob so ignore me.
More on long train journeys than tube journeys, admittedly. But I'm not that unhappy about this situation. Group of people all swigging from cans on a tube can be a bit intimidating for certain people. If it makes public transport a slightly nicer place, in any way at all, then I'm for it.
considering people are drunk already etc., and I'm sure you can still get away with a cheeky one, especially if you put it in a different bottle.
I have the smallest bladder in the world so tend not to anyway. I have been trapped in tunnels and needing the loo so much I wanted to die before now.
It's not an ideal solution but from my experiences on the tube I think it's probably for the best.
and pour a load of alcohol into it, who's going to know what you're swigging?
but is it going to turn into a situation where all drinks are subject to inspection?
can we all say NANNY STATE?! (i loathe that phrase)
Still in that sense it's more of Labour sort of policy than a Tory one. Boris is a Tory so we won't be seeing that sort of invasion of social liberty, I would think. Well I'd hope so.
I'm guessing this will only really come down to an excuse to chuck people off the tube.
And even an open bottle of Brandy and your breath smelling wouldn't be evidence enough. You could have drunk it before entering the tube.
but the majority of people getting drunk with a bottle of alcohol on the tube will have a sip. maybe it's an attempt to cut down on all those coke users who contribute to the downfall of columbia, or something?
pour vodka and coke into said bottle
about having an opinion is that yours is no more or no less right than anyone else's.
The first time my friend drank on the tube I was a bit worried that we'd all look like tramps or we'd get into trouble (drinking in the streets and on public transport is banned from where I come from).
But if you have to go from High Barnet to Clapham, for instance, a can or 2 can lessen the misery of painfully long journeys.
And I suppose it gets you more in the mood to P-A-R-T-Y when you get to your destination.
Lucius had it spot on above when he said that the folk that are a nuisance on the train and usually a nuisance before they get on.
It doesn't matter. At all. Not even a small bit.
absurd to bring this in now, when there's going to be few people around to police it. At least make sure all this new PCSOs/Transport Police are around to do so before banning something that isn't much of an issue.
All I can see happening is that people who do it in a sensible non-obtrusive way are going to stop, while the small minority who are behaving anti-socially continue as they were. The majority of anti-social behaviour'll continue as per normal until you crack down on that itself rather than one minority cause of it.
I think the idiot ban would have to be comparable.
It really is very much a Blairite sort of ruling, quite Stalinist in its outlook.
I've drunk on the tube/buses and I've seen others doing it but actually fairly rarely. Drunk people on the tube are normally already drunk.
And that's the crux here: I don't see it making a lot of difference except to take away more social liberties for little gain. Whether it will quiet down bad behaviour on public transport remains to be seen, but while I don't really have any issues with NOT being able to drink on public transport, I object to it being legislated against.
headlines headlines. it's all about the headlines.
they've missed out the Overground!!! PARTY TRAIN!!!!!
chips and dips
(only 'trains' probably includes overground too, doesn't it? boo.)
this does mean, however, that journeys to brixton academy from stokie are gonna be SUPER DULL now.
Doesn't it count as part of TFL's area so it will be affected also?
it is and always has been part of the NR network, but now the operating authority is TfL.
I'll test it out!!
i fink so. the line running from liverpool st to enfield and beyond should be unaffected though. and what's the penalty if you are drinking? i can't see any evidence of fines etc???
"London Overground services remain part of the National Rail network, but the contracting authority is Transport for London, rather than central Government"
on the way to work by the looks of things a while back...on the tube at about 9:15.
They were sharing a massive bag of Doritos for breakfast that the gentleman was washing down with 2 Bacardit Breezers.
Whilst doing this they were sharing earphones blasting what sounded like really crushing hard trance.
Has anyone considered starting the day like this?
don't drink on trains but I don't like Boris' typically tory idea to penalise people for really minor crimes.
EVERYONE BRING A BEER!
Except more liquidy and more mobile.
i think it looks cheap and nasty anyway. people i see drinking on tubes generally then get up and piss in the corner of the train, the piss then runs down the entire carriage, the person then starts a fight with my brother (okay that was just once) and yeah. i don't like the idea of drinking on the tube, it just looks tacky.
is like to to have their really impotant brief case occupying the seat by the window and will most likely tut really loudly if you ask for their briefcases seat.
the person with the beer will most likely chat you up, i know what i'd rather.
If I'm honest.
The paper guy, but that's only in a forced choice decision, and I wouldn't bemoan the guy with his can. I feel a bit sad when I see people drinking on their own during the day, but that's on the tube or otherwise.
to get on with a can of hooligan-brew and enjoy personal space and comfort.
no more. : (
Most scary pissheads are drunk and scary before they get on the tube so I don't see how this is going to make any difference.
I will miss having the odd can on a long bus or tube ride. Mind you Boris has probably never taken public transport before and so wouldn't appreciate how a bit of sedation helps.
believes that petty crime breeds serious crime, and he's making an effort to stamp it out.
Several points from a midlander:
1) I'm pretty sure we're not allowed to drink alcohol on many of our bus routes out in the sticks.
2) Tubes aren't the same as overground trains, and having glass bottles and drunk people in a confined space isn't massively safe real is it?
3) Is it just me who things people sitting on public transport openly swigging from bottles and cans looks a bit, you know, uncouth? AM I SO OUT OF TOUCH??!?!
was supposed to be elaborated on. Boris want to make a difference regarding casual violence, and this is part of his plan. You can't really blame him for trying new tactics can you?
but making out laws out of people keeping to themselves and sitting having a drink from a plastic bottle isn't that dangerous. also if it's not a good iddea allowing people to get drunk with glass, then please CLOSE ALLL THE PUBS RIGHT AWAY!
you can drink at home, you can drink at the pub or wherever you're going.
there's no arguing that the vast majority or people can be trusted with such things, but pubs are far easier to police in this sense than public transport, and a your pub isn't usually being driven around at 30 odd mph, so getting out of hand isn't that much of an issue.
but ban glass then, cans are fairly safe, as is plastic, and as i've said countless times, often journeys are well over an hour on the tube, so it's not really a case of drinking beofre or after.
instead then? which kind of begs the question why is it not A TERRIBLE VIOLATION OF MY RIGHTS to ban me from taking glass on to a bus, but it is if I can't take alcohol on? :)
It's not an easy problem to solve, anti-social behaviour and crime, and I like Mr Johnson's approach regarding small crime in principle. Let him have a go, its not like you're banned from drinking everywhere, its just between two points.
and you can decant alcohol, and there is no law saying you can't be drunk on there, though there is probably already a law ssaying you can't be drunk and disorderly...
more petty things will solve this how?
Seriously, I understand his theory, but HE DOESN'T HAVE ANYONE TO POLICE THIS YET, HENCE NON-LAW ABIDING ANTI-SOCIAL TYPES WILL IGNORE THIS WHILE PEOPLE WHO DO IT QUIETLY AND SENSIBLY SUFFER THE CONSEQUENCES. HOW DOES THAT HELP ANYONE???????!!!!!!11
ok, detail me some policies that will eradicate disorder without annoying a few people for a few minutes of their day please.
I actually have no problem with the policy. It actually seems quite sensible. However, implementing a ban without any ability to police it is completely pointless and does nothing to help prevent anti-social behaviour.
Boris has said he's going pay to get more transport police and PCSOs onto TFL services. Great. How about once he's done that, implement a policy *against anti-social behaviour* rather than just against a minority cause of it. That way we can include all forms of intimidating behaviour, playing loud music through tinny speakers and so on as well. It'd be far more effective than this will be. Really.
This is nothing more than a publicity grabbing poorly thought out measure.
of what I assume, considering how much he's gone on about it, of a wider crack down on similar ASB offences.
And I agree, it needs to be properly policed, but its a good idea.
since it's not part of a package of measures against anti-social behaviour. It's a typical example of the group of headline grabbing election pledges that haven't been thought through at all. I actually hoped there was more substance to this than just an alcohol ban, but apparently not :(
Certainly not to the extent that he's being given in this thread. As I keep saying (sorry) a ban is not a blunt force tool to be chucked around; it's a heavy-handed approach to dealing with problems, and you avoid it if at all possible. What other methods have been attempted to stem this tide of antisocial behaviour on the tube? (This tide that's been so incredible that it's only been an issue since Boris and Ken actually started talking about it, that is..)
consider yourselves lucky
(I LITERALLY SWEAT CLASS OUT OF EVERY PORE)
they were valid everywhere except Glasgow.
we did many LOLs.
I did wonder when I saw that too......
so that's 50 minutes minimum to get in to London and still I can't remember drinking on the tube since I was about 17. However, if I did want to how is anyone going to stop you drinking a bottle of coke if they don't know it's got vodka in it?
but if people don't know where Watford is I tell them it's north-west London.
it's north west OF london, f'sure
That's a fact.
Folks drinking on the tube look like lairy tramps, whether they are or not. They make the place look untidy.
how are they going to find out?
an informant culture! an age of paranoia! maybe?
the same type of people who ignored us having a rather illegal biftay last summer, something to do with not really having very good powers of arrest, and being an all round joke
people saying JUST DRINK IN A PUB. you are cunts.
sorry if this ahs already been mentioned but isn't this another example of government criminalising behaviour before an actual crime is committed.
if it's legal to drink non-alcoholic liquids on the tube, and there's no way beyond closely examining a persons drink to determine whether it's alcoholic, how can that action be a crime?
i have no problem with increasing the number of traffic police on the tube (though I think they could be used better than partolling a closed and monitered space) but surely they should be challenging aggressive behaviour not targeting people who have not distinguished themselves as a disturbance in anyway?
walk straight on the bus, graffiti on the bus, or generally DO BAD THINGS on buses, I don't see how or why they are going to get involved in stopping people drink.
I don't think it's a bad idea but it just seems stupidly rushed in. It's quite amusingly anti-Tory, aren't they meant to be all for less government interfering? Oh well.
people arent gunna care that much tbh, i doubt i'll stop for one.
its not like i get absolutely tanked on the tube, just sip beers with my homeboys before a night out occasionally.
then he should first ban tinny renditions of the latest bonkerz compilation blaring out of mobile phones
then ban people with dogs