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Theoretical question for athiests.

MirriLondon [Edit] [Delete] 114 replies 17:08, 15 January '08

You're on your death bed. You've said goodbye to your loved ones. You can sense you're very close to death.

Do you repent your sins and ask for forgiveness? After all, you have absolutely nothing to lose - nobody knows what you're doing but you.

Just curious!

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  • No. Ask who for forgiveness?!?

    bamos | 15 Jan '08, 17:09 | X
    • James Tarpey, Wyedean School Year 9.

      if i hadn't have taken the ball off you, we would've won 4-3.
      i am eternally sorry. especially as i scored the fourth.

      fishplums @bamos | 15 Jan '08, 17:12 | X
      • Nikki Cormach, Pennine Way Junior School Yr 6

        I didn't know your bones were that fragile, I just thought it'd be fun to pretend to trip you up on the grass. Sorry you were in plaster for a year x

        bamos @fishplums | 15 Jan '08, 17:14 | X
        • Sarah Harrison, Yr 8

          I'm sorry I called you snowy slopes, in retrospect it wasn't that funny

          Parsefone @bamos | 15 Jan '08, 17:18 | X
          • This question isn't theoretical at all

            It's ACTUALLY a question, goddammit!

            TheoGB | 15 Jan '08, 17:09 | X
            • Are theoretical questions not actually questions?

              bamos @TheoGB | 15 Jan '08, 17:10 | X
              • in theory

                meths @bamos | 15 Jan '08, 17:11 | X
              • Save me Jebus......

                Canny see it myself. Whats the point?
                When yer deid yer deid!

                Lo-Pan @bamos | 15 Jan '08, 17:11 | X
            • It's theoretical

              in that you're not on your death bed!

              MirriLondon @TheoGB | 15 Jan '08, 17:14 | X
              • He will be sooner that he thinks if he carries on like this.

                bamos @MirriLondon | 15 Jan '08, 17:15 | X
                • *ask whom for forgiveness

                  TheoGB @bamos | 15 Jan '08, 17:52 | X
          • but surely if you dont beleive in god,

            you wouldnt ask. otherwise you wouldnt be an atheist

            meths | 15 Jan '08, 17:10 | X
            • Yes, this I know.

              Just the death of an athiest in the family this week plus a religious book I'm reading at the moment got me thinking.

              I wonder, if, in his last five minutes...

              And then I wonderered if I would!

              Anyway, I don't have the answer. So I want yours instead.

              MirriLondon @meths | 15 Jan '08, 17:13 | X
              • well i'm not an athiest

                so i cant

                meths @MirriLondon | 15 Jan '08, 17:16 | X
                • i would have thought you would be!

                  what are you then?

                  sophiacherryx @meths | 15 Jan '08, 20:43 | X
          • ...

            Betwix the stirrup and the ground
            Mercy I sought, and mercy found

            Atheism is shite. Seeking salvation at the last minute is almost as big a sin as suicide

            yes_ | 15 Jan '08, 17:12 | X
            • But...

              Atheism isn't the cause of fuck knows how many wars, and fuck knows how many violations of human rights because of 3,496,999 forms of paganism.

              cunt

              benthemod @yes_ | 15 Jan '08, 20:41 | X
          • Theoretically no

            but if I was about to die I probably would have the ability to be deluded enough to think it's worth a shot. I dunno.

            Ruby_Tuesday @gabriellerose | 15 Jan '08, 17:14 | X
          • No-ones in the room, do you repent?

            No. That would ruin a life of disbelief, and also, why bother God if 'he' exists?

            You're just likely to fuck him off.

            'Oh, you're repenting now. Right at the end? Yeah, yeah, sure you're going to Heaven...'

            <pulls the big lever>

            Teepee_uk @gabriellerose | 15 Jan '08, 17:17 | X
          • well.

            i would hope that i have lived my life as well as i could, without harming any other people intentionally, and being a good person.

            so, i would hope that if there is a God/s that they would grant me forgiveness anyway and put me in a field of cheese.

            sarkyfox | 15 Jan '08, 17:15 | X
            • A hahahaha

              What kind of cheese?

              MirriLondon @sarkyfox | 15 Jan '08, 17:27 | X
              • Haha

                That question always, without fail, proceeds the subject matter of 'cheese'. Always.

                Still, i wouldn't suddenly decide that it'd be a good idea to "repent for sins" at my very last breath. Besides, as an atheist myself, i don't think its exactly ethical to undermine a belief of non-belief.

                Yeeeahshorty @MirriLondon | 15 Jan '08, 17:35 | X
              • every kind.

                with jacobs cream crackers. and ciabatta. and tiger bread. and a fryer so i could make fried camembert/brie/goats cheese.

                and apples and grapes. :D

                sarkyfox @MirriLondon | 15 Jan '08, 17:36 | X
                • just, this amazing bread.

                  it's roundy french bread loaf type. god it's nice.

                  sarkyfox @_vikram | 15 Jan '08, 17:38 | X
                  • the crust

                    is cut to look like tiger stripes but otherwise its just a normal crusty round loaf

                    stiffkitten_ @_vikram | 15 Jan '08, 17:51 | X
                  • I think there is something in the Christian theology

                    about you being saved if you don't have the ability to find God or actively worship (ie if you are a bit "special"). Presumably this applies to all atheists because they aren't innately blessed with the neural capacity to believe in God either.

                    Therefore, we will all be saved anyway. Hurrah!

                    doctornovocalcords | 15 Jan '08, 17:17 | X
                    • No

                      People without a profound knowledge of sin or connection with human nature (i.e god) are going down.
                      I.e most atheists are burning, but so are many pious christians that have wasted the opportunity to deepen their understanding.

                      yes_ @doctornovocalcords | 15 Jan '08, 17:20 | X
                      • including the mentally deficient, psychotic, senile?

                        Also please reveal how an atheist can deepen their understanding of god

                        doctornovocalcords @yes_ | 15 Jan '08, 17:27 | X
                        • they can't

                          but they'll be saved anyway because god is brill.
                          Hound of heaven and all that.

                          yes_ @doctornovocalcords | 15 Jan '08, 17:33 | X
                          • yay

                            thanks Mr Theologian

                            doctornovocalcords @yes_ | 15 Jan '08, 17:37 | X
                            • Thanks mr dawkins!

                              yes_ @doctornovocalcords | 15 Jan '08, 17:40 | X
                              • I wish

                                then Id be married to Lalla Ward

                                doctornovocalcords @yes_ | 15 Jan '08, 17:45 | X
                    • ALL YOU PEOPLE DISGUST ME

                      yes_ | 15 Jan '08, 17:18 | X
                    • I can't really say what I would do

                      I would be about to die, so I would be acting pretty strangely I imagine.

                      However, I would like to think that I wouldn't. Why would I choose that particular way to placate a god who just might exist? I think it's equally likely there is a god who will reward me for using the powers of reason he/she/it gave me rather than cringing before him/her/it and begging for mercy.

                      Anyway, surely the Christian god would see through such a bet hedging manoeuvre. I think repentance would have to be sincere, not just a tactical move.

                      EustaceHPlimsoll | 15 Jan '08, 17:18 | X
                    • No.

                      Because if God DID exist he'd send me to hell for seeking salvation at the eleventh hour, and being a selfish twat.

                      Religion shouldn't be about "saving" yourself at the last minute. It should be about building up a lifelong relationship with God. Which I don't plan on doing.

                      fihiki | 15 Jan '08, 17:21 | X
                      • Yeah, Why NOT LOVE GOD!

                        GOD IS LOVE

                        yes_ @_vikram | 15 Jan '08, 17:23 | X
                        • but surely this is one of the objectionable features of Christian theology

                          the idea that you can just save yourself at the last minute and that is just as acceptable to God than a life spent saving the lives of one-eyed paraplegic children.
                          Kill as many people as you like, be an utter shit, but become a born-again Christian at some point in your life and all is well.

                          doctornovocalcords @fihiki | 15 Jan '08, 17:31 | X
                          • Yeah!

                            Life is transient! We're all just atoms n shit! Have a ball!

                            I'm pretty sure it says that in the Bible's foreword.

                            yes_ @doctornovocalcords | 15 Jan '08, 17:34 | X
                          • That's what I was saying!

                            I wouldn't do it. It would be disrespectful to actual devout Christians who, for whatever reason, worship God throughout their lives.

                            Maybe God would take pity on me on my death-bed though. I'm just a product of my parents' heathenism! It's not my fault I don't believe in God!!!!!!!!11111

                            fihiki @doctornovocalcords | 15 Jan '08, 17:40 | X
                            • my point was that, no you wouldn't be sent

                              to hell for seeking salvation at the last minute but I see now you were being facetious (obv).
                              It's not my fault either. I blame God for being shit at his job. Needs to hire a better PR company.

                              doctornovocalcords @fihiki | 15 Jan '08, 17:50 | X
                              • as a devout catholic

                                im fucking offended

                                stiffkitten_ @doctornovocalcords | 15 Jan '08, 17:53 | X
                                • why?

                                  doctornovocalcords @stiffkitten_ | 15 Jan '08, 17:54 | X
                                  • I even used the upper-case G

                                    which is usually against my principles

                                    doctornovocalcords @doctornovocalcords | 15 Jan '08, 17:55 | X
                                  • "I blame God for being shit at his job. Needs to hire a better PR company"

                                    the story of feeding the five thousand with two loaves and five fish was good enough PR thankyou very much.

                                    stiffkitten_ @doctornovocalcords | 15 Jan '08, 17:57 | X
                                    • ROFL

                                      yes_ @stiffkitten_ | 15 Jan '08, 17:59 | X
                                    • "the story"...

                                      fihiki @stiffkitten_ | 15 Jan '08, 18:01 | X
                                      • obviously that shit

                                        aint real.

                                        stiffkitten_ @fihiki | 15 Jan '08, 18:03 | X
                                        • it's certainly pushing the boundaries of plausiblity

                                          you have a point

                                          doctornovocalcords @stiffkitten_ | 15 Jan '08, 18:07 | X
                                        • Well, obviously it's kind of hard to prove either way.

                                          Seems kind of unlikely though.

                                          fihiki @stiffkitten_ | 15 Jan '08, 18:08 | X
                                    • The Bible -

                                      greatest. work. of. fiction. ever.

                                      benthemod @stiffkitten_ | 15 Jan '08, 20:51 | X
                        • If you don't believe in god

                          what are sins ?

                          lyle | 15 Jan '08, 17:21 | X
                        • Well, I was on my death bed a few months ago

                          and all I could think of was, "Who the fuck would shot me?" Thank God I lived. *ahem*

                          oceanRain | 15 Jan '08, 17:26 | X
                        • no, absolutely not

                          I'm an atheist, not an agnostic! I don't see why I'd go through my whole life believing in something, then change just before I'm about to die. Religious people don't do that, so they?

                          nice_squirrel | 15 Jan '08, 17:38 | X
                          • no I wouldn't

                            even though I have nothing to lose, it's like me going to church one sunday for no reason.

                            it'd be pointless as I don't believe in it and even on my death bed, I reckon, it'd be the same.

                            hedgehog | 15 Jan '08, 17:52 | X
                          • Don't have anyone to confess to.

                            Besides, you can't confess as a catholic unless you've entered into the faith.

                            Also, if you only did it as you had nothing to lose, any real god would know that and just disregard what you said.

                            keiths_tele | 15 Jan '08, 17:57 | X
                            • my God

                              welcomes lost sheep.

                              stiffkitten_ @keiths_tele | 15 Jan '08, 17:59 | X
                          • I cant quite grasp this question

                            or think of a way to answer it or refute it, you might as well ask "why is purple" I dont really know what you mean by sins or forgiveness, im not trying to be a clever dick here, it just really doesnt make any sense to me

                            creakyknees | 15 Jan '08, 17:58 | X
                            • "You're on your death bed. You've said goodbye to your loved ones. You can sense you're very close t

                              The one and only answer to this is: Ask for privacy, have a wank.

                              Panic | 15 Jan '08, 18:03 | X
                              • nah

                                I'd just scream "RED WIZARD IS ABOUT TO DIE" and then expire.

                                joeymahone | 15 Jan '08, 18:03 | X
                                • I really hope you do this

                                  Can you put it on youtube, in case I am still alive?

                                  doctornovocalcords @joeymahone | 15 Jan '08, 18:09 | X
                                  • tell you what

                                    if I'm on my deathbed anytime soon, you have my permission to set up a camcorder and send the tape to You've Been Framed! after I shuffle off.

                                    joeymahone @doctornovocalcords | 15 Jan '08, 18:25 | X
                              • but surely "God" would knot you didn't mean it? i mean he knows everything apparently.

                                walkingwithwolves | 15 Jan '08, 18:08 | X
                                • He knows you spelt His name without a capital H.

                                  You'll burn for that.

                                  keiths_tele @walkingwithwolves | 15 Jan '08, 18:12 | X
                                  • surely saying you don't believe in god

                                    is worse than no using a capital H?

                                    walkingwithwolves @keiths_tele | 15 Jan '08, 21:31 | X
                              • Did anyone else sing this

                                to the tune of "Would I lie to you?" by Charles and Eddie? Just me then.

                                doctornovocalcords @codswallop | 15 Jan '08, 18:15 | X
                                • No

                                  It would just mean diverting my thoughts from something more constructive.

                                  doctornovocalcords @codswallop | 15 Jan '08, 18:18 | X
                                  • Not a chance in hell.

                                    No way.

                                    JoeDiddly | 15 Jan '08, 18:14 | X
                                  • No

                                    don't think it would make any difference and I wouldn't feel that I had any reason to ask for forgiveness or anybody to ask.

                                    katieb | 15 Jan '08, 18:23 | X
                                  • Pascal's wager?

                                    problem is you might believe in the wrong god, or their might be a god who punishes believers, or a god who rewards critical thinking...

                                    EustaceHPlimsoll @CaviarAndCigarets | 15 Jan '08, 19:57 | X
                                    • God in heaven is a debateable matter but

                                      it has been shown time and again that there is no god on Earth. It is ous and we are the guardians. That is the probolem with religion, it detracts from that.

                                      keiths_tele @EustaceHPlimsoll | 15 Jan '08, 20:01 | X
                                      • But what if right at

                                        the end I decide that I really love Enya?

                                        the_amwel @keiths_tele | 15 Jan '08, 20:17 | X
                                    • If there was a god

                                      surely he'd know if you were sorry? You aren't going to fool an omniscient being with fake apologies for things you don't regret, and if you genuinely were sorry for all your sins, you'd have nothing to worry about anyway (except the fact that you're about to die).

                                      froglet | 15 Jan '08, 20:25 | X
                                    • Many are confused about the definition of 'atheism'

                                      Contrary to popular belief, few atheists claim to be 100% sure of the non-existence of god. The atheist stance is a belief that god's existence is sufficiently unlikely and unjustified by evidence to be ignored for all practical purposes.

                                      That said, if the potential reward is infinite, even the smallest probability would make the bet (pascal's wager?) viable. So why not.

                                      Also, being an atheist doesn't necessarily preclude the belief in an (again perhaps small) probability that some race of aliens actually created our universe and us as an experiment. Just aliens, not some mystical infintely-supreme 'god'. In this case, perhaps praying to the aliens might help. Heh.

                                      matt | 15 Jan '08, 20:36 | X
                                      • Then again,

                                        I could equally well spend my life dreaming up all sorts of weird and wonderful mystical propositions, which are true with non-zero (though tiny) probability and have an 'infinite' reward. Then I would waste my life betting on each one.

                                        No point arguing with rigour about things which aren't rigorously defined.

                                        matt @matt | 15 Jan '08, 20:40 | X
                                        • well quite

                                          most atheists I expect are actually agnostic in theoretical terms but atheist in practice and so the label atheist makes most sense (if there has to be a label). It follows that they are also agnostic in principle about every other possible permutation of the universe, but that is a crippling way to live and so some simplification is needed.

                                          doctornovocalcords @matt | 15 Jan '08, 22:18 | X
                                        • cover your bases

                                          Iwasalightningkitten | 15 Jan '08, 20:40 | X
                                        • Most things you've done you wouldnt see a sins if you were an Atheist though.

                                          Why appologise for sexing lots before being married if you see nothing wrong with it?

                                          dash_and_blast | 15 Jan '08, 20:47 | X
                                        • no,

                                          bd because to which god would i ask forgiveness? if i apoligised to one god id have to apologise to every single relgious god that exists.

                                          easy_rob | 15 Jan '08, 21:21 | X
                                          • +what

                                            matt said up there. i was going to say something similar but not as well put.

                                            easy_rob @easy_rob | 15 Jan '08, 21:26 | X
                                          • +

                                            if i was going to convert on my deathbed id convert to a relegion that believed in life on earth after death, so i'd still be alive.

                                            easy_rob @easy_rob | 15 Jan '08, 21:29 | X
                                        • if god is all forgiving

                                          he wont mind. if you have been a nice person, he wont mind that you didnt act in his name, infact he will be impressed that you acted goodly purely because it is the right thing to do rather than just because it will get you to heaven (fingers crossed eh!)

                                          gamecat | 15 Jan '08, 21:25 | X
                                        • No

                                          I'd rather die saying something earth-shatteringly wise and insightful than praying for forgiveness from something I've never believed in.

                                          Especially as I've always viewed relgion as a crutch against the unknown; going against all that "just in case" would seem hypocritical and cowardly, and that's not how I'd want to act in my last few minutes on Earth.

                                          Sibley | 15 Jan '08, 21:28 | X
                                        • If...

                                          you're an atheist, the equivelant of repenting for your sins to god is to be at peace with yourself and all you've done on your deathbed. God's opinion on your life, if it exists, doesn't matter.

                                          Mu_Tron | 15 Jan '08, 21:37 | X
                                        • No.

                                          If you're really an atheist, you really don't believe in god. Thus, it'd be silly and futile to "repent." Also, being an atheist doesn't mean you haven't got values and are some horrible and purely hedonistic person. I'm not going to have any sins to repent. (Though I realize that's not what you're implying; by Bible standards I would be a sinner.)

                                          alley | 15 Jan '08, 21:43 | X
                                        • ruin my dying moments?

                                          madness

                                          millionaire | 15 Jan '08, 22:00 | X
                                        • Which religion do you suddenly cconvert to though?

                                          I don't know how easy the different religions are to join at 5 minutes notice. Do you hedge your bets and become a buddhist, hindu, jew christian and muslim. That might take more than 5 minutes... like 45 or something. What about mormonism and scientology?! It's all too hard work for me. I think I'll stick with what I got. Good, old fashioned, athiesm.

                                          JezCC | 15 Jan '08, 22:01 | X
                                        • Sacrifice my beliefs for the sake of hedging my bets?

                                          I wouldn't be able to live with myself.

                                          Zapsta | 15 Jan '08, 22:02 | X
                                        • yeh, i would.

                                          might as well give it a go.

                                          Dagnammit | 15 Jan '08, 22:35 | X
                                          • Doubt it

                                            seeing as I don't believe in a personal god...but I've been wrong before. I would hope an omniscient being (if one dies exist) would look at one's entire life before deciding whether they get into heaven or hell (if they exist).

                                            Isolated @Dagnammit | 15 Jan '08, 22:40 | X
                                        • uh........ fuck no.

                                          not a chance in the world.

                                          kofiadrian | 15 Jan '08, 23:13 | X
                                        • OK I've given this consideration

                                          but to be able to go further, i need to ask the question.
                                          "WHy do you think your 'god' would want you to say sorry, before your die?"

                                          Is it because you have an internalised concept of your 'god' within yourself and you are, in fact, apologising, to yourself in effect, for all the ways that you have not fullfilled yourself, or apologising for things that you consider to be bad?

                                          Please help me to understand the original question.

                                          creakyknees | 16 Jan '08, 10:13 | X
                                        • Can't be arsed to read the whole thread

                                          But you can repent all of what you have done which you consider to be sinful (rather than biblical sins) and not be talking to any 'God' per se

                                          DanielKelly | 16 Jan '08, 10:18 | X
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