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Pescatarianism

doctornovocalcords [Edit] [Delete] 124 replies 13:53, 14 January '08

Is anyone here a pescatarian? What is your personal justification or motivation (if you have any outside of just not liking other kinds of meat)? Why not vegetarianism?

I'm interested because I have pondered it at length but have yet to come up with a convincing argument for it other than the probable health benefits.

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  • I like reggae :-)

    but also washing my hair

    :-(

    ehwhat | 14 Jan '08, 13:54 | X
    • :D

      doctornovocalcords @ehwhat | 14 Jan '08, 14:07 | X
  • I am - as of this year. Seriously.

    I love fish, I need the protein and don't particularly want to souly rely on tofu for that.. or lentils which I can't stand...

    I may, however, be seduced by a well cooked filet steak but that will probably only happen once or twice a year these days... (blue).

    But I now consider myself pescatarian. I had a long chat about this with a friend over some seafood last week.

    Rose-Kitten | 14 Jan '08, 13:54 | X
    • Also, personal motivation? The quality of shit food in this country.

      Sorry - and I can't afford to buy a £16 organic chicken everytime I want to cook one (when one house mate is vegetarian anyway)... and I find chicken a bit bland...

      I don't like the taste of cheap meat and am obviously fortunate enough to have an income and lifestyle where by I get to make these choices (some people, am aware, do not have a choice).

      Rose-Kitten @Rose-Kitten | 14 Jan '08, 13:57 | X
      • is fish a lot cheaper?

        ie fish that is "ethically produced"?
        I genuinely don't know. I haven't seen much fish that has this kind of information marked on it, unlike with other meats.
        I'm aware that the fish I buy is pretty cheap but then it is probably horribly sourced, as it is standard supermarket stuff.

        doctornovocalcords @Rose-Kitten | 14 Jan '08, 14:02 | X
      • it's generally more expensive and yes, they do have farms

        I mean, look at the salmon farms. Real salmon is not that hideous neon pink colour.. it's actually pale pale pale pink... (organic).

        I try, where possible to buy organic fish... I'm keeping Fresh and Wild in business as am aware of mecury levels and so on in various fishes and trying to stop putting crap into my body for awhile.

        Fuck, I've returned back to my organic state of a few years back. Midlife crisis? I need a (vintage) Porsche now... and a 20 year old guy on my arm.

        Rose-Kitten @_vikram | 14 Jan '08, 14:11 | X
        • LOLZ

          .

          Rose-Kitten @_vikram | 14 Jan '08, 14:14 | X
        • I'M ON A SEAFOOD DIET!!!!!

          Sorry. Carry on.

          bamos | 14 Jan '08, 13:56 | X
          • Oyster?

            Rose-Kitten @bamos | 14 Jan '08, 13:57 | X
            • I read about them in the Daily Star

              ...fucking perverts, they should be strung up.

              How many of them are living near our schools, hey?

              Alex-in-Ciderland @Rose-Kitten | 14 Jan '08, 14:01 | X
        • I'm vegatarian...

          ...and this has always puzzled me also.
          I can't see why you would eat fish but not other meat. Are fish just less important. It doesn't make sense to me.

          GalacticStar3ruption | 14 Jan '08, 14:02 | X
          • ...

            Fish cannot scream as you flay the skin from their flesh in your murderous abottoir of mendacious consumerism.

            Stealthy @GalacticStar3ruption | 14 Jan '08, 14:05 | X
            • i love you

              alcxxk @Stealthy | 14 Jan '08, 14:06 | X
            • flay

              is an amazing word
              mindflayers

              doctornovocalcords @Stealthy | 14 Jan '08, 14:08 | X
              • ...

                And it goes in hand with its bigger, badder cousin 'exanguinate'.

                Stealthy @doctornovocalcords | 14 Jan '08, 14:10 | X
              • I am

                and have been for 15 years. My main reasons for going vege are to do with farming methods, and to a certain extent environmental stuff. I don't have a huge moral issue with ethically/organically reared meat but couldn't bring myself to eat it now.
                I've tried being vegan and found it really tough. At the end of the day I enjoy eating fish now and again, I try not to buy anything that's over-fished like cod etc., and I just don't think that fish suffer from beign intensively farmed the way mammals do. ic ould well be wrong - tbh I have deliberately avoided looking into it too deeply as I really don't want to give it up.

                charliemoo | 14 Jan '08, 14:06 | X
                • speaking as a non-vegetarian

                  I could probably reel off a pretty long list of reasons why fish farming's just as bad as every other kind of farming but seeing as you said you'd rather not know....

                  restlessboy @charliemoo | 14 Jan '08, 14:08 | X
                • The fish don't generally suffer in life as much

                  if they are sea-fish
                  the killing is just as grim though and usually greatly more prolonged

                  doctornovocalcords @charliemoo | 14 Jan '08, 14:11 | X
              • 'Fun guy' joke.

                bamos @zabakdaz | 14 Jan '08, 14:08 | X
                • you're having a bad day, aren't you?

                  lemonbrickcombo @bamos | 14 Jan '08, 14:12 | X
                  • Can you tell?

                    bamos @lemonbrickcombo | 14 Jan '08, 14:15 | X
              • ^ FUNGHIPHOBE

                .

                Alex-in-Ciderland @zabakdaz | 14 Jan '08, 14:11 | X
              • similarly

                i dont get why vegetarians dont go vegan, if their choice is supposed to be an ethical one, and not a "i dont like meat anyway" one

                alcxxk | 14 Jan '08, 14:07 | X
                • ^^^^^^

                  sarkyfox @alcxxk | 14 Jan '08, 14:09 | X
                  • i'm sure the killing of the animals is probably the best bit

                    of their lives.

                    sarkyfox @_vikram | 14 Jan '08, 14:22 | X
                    • seems an odd argument to me

                      and very sentimental. Maybe she just really hates fish and so is happy murdering them?

                      doctornovocalcords @Polly_Bee | 14 Jan '08, 14:15 | X
                      • Basically, it comes down to the fact that

                        you can't cuddle a fish.

                        They look like aliens and as anyone who is familiar with sci-fi will tell you, aliens want to kill us so we should waste them first.

                        Alex-in-Ciderland @_vikram | 14 Jan '08, 14:13 | X
                        • I always wanted a salamander.

                          They would have been cool pets.
                          Yup.

                          Rose-Kitten @Alex-in-Ciderland | 14 Jan '08, 14:15 | X
                        • cuttlefish sounds like cuddlefish

                          klaire @Alex-in-Ciderland | 14 Jan '08, 14:19 | X
                          • because they taste

                            so good

                            Jamie_Summers | 14 Jan '08, 14:19 | X
                          • I was a veggie for four years

                            before becoming a pesc-ie as my mother likes to call me. I have been pesc-ie for a year now. It's weird, I'd like to say my reasoning is that I can kill and gut and then eat fish but I don't think I could do that to any other animal. I also would like to say it's because of the huge evironmental benefits. But I think it comes down to preference, I prefer eating a vegetarian diet and having fish occasionally. I have a much more healthy diet now I don't eat meat AND eat fish as a main source of protein.

                            I feel justified within myself and when I try and explain to others why I eat what I do it is very confused. It just makes sense to me.

                            I hope one day to get over my feeling towards animal slaughter and be able to eat meat again but I don't know how long it will take me to get there or what will make me change. Recent chicken based programmes haven't deterred me but they have made me realise you can eat animals that you know have had a decent life and have been treated with respect and in a humane way. There is no excuse for commercially farmed livestock and it sickens me that this exists.

                            Being a veggie was alright but there are great health benefits from eating fish. I don't eat fish very often... once every two weeks but I think my body recognises the benefits of the protein-y goodness.

                            KittyInPink | 14 Jan '08, 14:19 | X
                            • you

                              need to watch earthlings.

                              i think the answer is just to get into cooking and if your heart's in it you will be fine.

                              colly_kunoichi @KittyInPink | 14 Jan '08, 14:24 | X
                              • I am into cooking lots

                                but I get what your saying.

                                I am a pretty good cook and get those who do not value vegetarian food as a meal to eat my food and enjoy it.

                                I feel most meals without meat in it are not lacking anything.

                                KittyInPink @colly_kunoichi | 14 Jan '08, 14:28 | X
                                • What like a lump of meat?

                                  A lump of meat would be a lacking meal without the meat...

                                  KittyInPink @Jack_El_Biscuit | 14 Jan '08, 14:34 | X
                                  • Folk are generally becoming more aware about the

                                    disastrous state of the world's fisheries, but still the supermarkets are packed full with dangerously overfished species, caught using unsustainable methods. Buying sustainably sound fish is no cheaper than doing likewise with meat.

                                    Reckoning | 14 Jan '08, 14:21 | X
                                    • that's not a reason to be a pescatarian..

                                      klaire @Reckoning | 14 Jan '08, 14:22 | X
                                      • i know...

                                        I had to finish the post a little abruptly due to boss presence...I was basically expressing my scepticism at folk being pescatarian for ethical reasons...i.e. it takes a fair bit of effort and money to achieve this...

                                        Reckoning @klaire | 14 Jan '08, 14:31 | X
                                        • ahhh

                                          i see

                                          klaire @Reckoning | 14 Jan '08, 14:40 | X
                                  • I am

                                    I'm too lazy to become a proper vegetarian. It's more ethical to eat fish and not meat than it is to eat both.

                                    s_p_g | 14 Jan '08, 14:39 | X
                                    • ^ i think this is what it comes down to for most pescetarians

                                      idiots.

                                      klaire @s_p_g | 14 Jan '08, 14:41 | X
                                    • and...

                                      by ethical I mean the potential for animal suffering as well as environmental damage.

                                      s_p_g @s_p_g | 14 Jan '08, 14:43 | X
                                    • is it?

                                      how? I don't get it.

                                      doctornovocalcords @s_p_g | 14 Jan '08, 14:44 | X
                                      • Me neither

                                        But then I'm vegan, and I find 'normal' vegetarianism hypocritical as a whole. But then you can argue that all sorts of other stuff I do isn't ethical. I know I'm no better than anyone else - it should be a personal choice and not something you have foisted on you. I don't mind people being vegetarian or eating meat as long as they feel they can morally justify it to themselves. I can't , so I don't.

                                        mattj @doctornovocalcords | 14 Jan '08, 14:54 | X
                                      • fish

                                        are not capable of suffering to the same extent as cows, pigs, chickens and sheep.

                                        Eating meat is inefficient (ecologically) and contributes to deforestation and global warming.

                                        s_p_g @doctornovocalcords | 14 Jan '08, 15:01 | X
                                        • do we know that? no

                                          either way, are you arguing that cows and chickens are equivalently able to feel pain/suffer as each other or do you make special distinctions between those too?

                                          Eating meat in inefficient and environmentally dubious but there are plenty of arguments for fishing being the same.

                                          doctornovocalcords @s_p_g | 14 Jan '08, 15:29 | X
                                          • no...

                                            I'm arguing that all species have a different susceptability to suffering depending on their physiology and evolutionary histories.

                                            Ants can't suffer as much as fish, which can't suffer as much as cows and chickens, which can't suffer as much as chimps and humans.

                                            s_p_g @doctornovocalcords | 14 Jan '08, 17:26 | X
                                            • I didn't say that.

                                              But anyway.

                                              You can measure animal behaviour, e.g their preference for certain things and activities. This has been used in good zoos to make sure animals have a suitable environment. e.g more intelligent animals tend to enjoy forms of play or mental stimulation when they are given the choice, thus one can presume if they are denied this they will be become bored, which over a period of time could become stressful and cause the animal to suffer. The same applies to eating habits, social interaction, sleeping and basically all other behaviour.

                                              In addition to behaviour you can measure physiological effects to see susceptibility to infection etc which might indicate stress. Although admitedly it's not always easy to extrapolate individual physiological events to mental suffering, if an animal has for example, limited mental capacity, then they are not going to become stressed through lack of intellectual stimulation.

                                              This is quite interesting.
                                              http://statistics.defra.gov.uk/esg/evaluation/animwelf/chap2.pdf

                                              Tbh there's a huge number of studies available via google scholar.

                                              s_p_g @_vikram | 14 Jan '08, 19:50 | X
                                            • It's Ok,

                                              eat fish, cos they don't have any feelings.

                                              mixmaster_a | 14 Jan '08, 14:41 | X
                                              • well, relatively

                                                yeah.

                                                Plus even though overfishing is an issue, at least it's not contributing to global warming and deforestation.

                                                s_p_g @mixmaster_a | 14 Jan '08, 14:57 | X
                                                • Reference...

                                                  please ?

                                                  Peer-reviewed journal if possible.

                                                  s_p_g @_vikram | 14 Jan '08, 15:07 | X
                                                  • hmmm

                                                    Methinks you've put the cart before the horse, so to speak.

                                                    As far as I'm aware coral is dying due to increased sea temperatures due to global warming.

                                                    Increased algae blooms could be a response to increased CO2 levels, but I don't see how they would be contributing to global warming.

                                                    s_p_g @_vikram | 14 Jan '08, 15:46 | X
                                                    • yeah

                                                      whilst overfishing is indeed messing with marine ecosystems, I think the environmental consequences of this are pretty debatable at present.

                                                      doctornovocalcords @s_p_g | 14 Jan '08, 15:47 | X
                                                  • sorry

                                                    I'm at work. Summary ?

                                                    s_p_g @_vikram | 14 Jan '08, 15:04 | X
                                                    • ah

                                                      heh. ta.

                                                      s_p_g @_vikram | 14 Jan '08, 15:21 | X
                                                    • i don't see the point in the term

                                                      if you have such dietary habits you're not allowed in the super smug club, you're just some lame hanger-on waiting by the stage door for swampy's autograph.

                                                      84joe | 14 Jan '08, 14:49 | X
                                                    • I've never been a pescatarian

                                                      in fact, in protest at all agriculture, i'm going to stop eating. period.

                                                      :)

                                                      keveddy | 14 Jan '08, 14:49 | X
                                                      • parishiltonarian?

                                                        living on a diet consisting of alcohol, Marlboro Lights and jizz?!

                                                        Alex-in-Ciderland @keveddy | 14 Jan '08, 14:59 | X
                                                        • don't forget the Special K!

                                                          and the coke to take the edge off it.

                                                          keveddy @Alex-in-Ciderland | 14 Jan '08, 15:07 | X
                                                    • I don't think anyone said it wasn't

                                                      I'm sure some people have other justifications for it, as evidenced by this thread

                                                      doctornovocalcords @CaviarAndCigarets | 14 Jan '08, 15:32 | X
                                                    • I've met alot of pescatarians who do it for ethical reasons

                                                      which i really dont understand. then again, i cant really understand vegetarians who are against animal cruelty but still eat dairy products and eggs from factory farms..

                                                      dash_and_blast | 14 Jan '08, 15:06 | X
                                                    • I'm pescatarian.

                                                      But I'm seriously SO bored of having to 'justify' the reasons for my diet and people saying its stupid. It gets a bit annoying after a while, to say the least.

                                                      But in short, my reasons are a combination of a few things;
                                                      1. I feel healthier because of it.
                                                      2. I don't like the way meat is farmed. (I'm not overly keen on fish farming, but I don't think it's nearly as bad and I don't generally buy farmed fish anyway).
                                                      3. I think as a society, we eat too much meat and it has a pretty adverse effect on the environment.
                                                      5. I like fish more than meat.

                                                      The upside being I spend a bit less on my weekly food shop too, although obviously not as much as complete vegetarianism.

                                                      homesick_alien | 14 Jan '08, 15:14 | X
                                                      • vegetarianism/veganism isnt cheap

                                                        trust me:(

                                                        dash_and_blast @homesick_alien | 14 Jan '08, 15:22 | X
                                                        • most vegan stuff is automaticly organic

                                                          but i go through about 3 packs of tofu a week at three pound each, veggi burgers are about £4 for two and oat milk and stuff is pretty expensive. Plus vegetables and pulses (which are pretty cheap) but it all adds up

                                                          dash_and_blast @_vikram | 14 Jan '08, 15:32 | X
                                                          • Hmm...

                                                            I guess it's not that cheap if you have to buy all the replacement type products and that.

                                                            My weekly shop would defintiely be cheaper without fish though, and I only buy like, I piece of fish a week or something.

                                                            homesick_alien @dash_and_blast | 14 Jan '08, 15:27 | X
                                                            • I like

                                                              how my list of reasons went "1, 2, 3.... 5".

                                                              And fish is supposed to be brain food, oh the lolzzzzzzzzz.

                                                              homesick_alien @homesick_alien | 14 Jan '08, 15:29 | X
                                                            • I'm a pescatarian

                                                              I only eat things that don't have legs and can't chase me to high ground.

                                                              Technically, I think this allows me to eat snake meat. I haven't found anywhere that sells it yet.

                                                              =)

                                                              Teepee_uk @homesick_alien | 14 Jan '08, 15:33 | X
                                                              • my friend ate snake meat in vietnam

                                                                she's a veggie too. but what made it much worse was the fact that she held the snake before it was killed and cooked for her.

                                                                satsuma @Teepee_uk | 14 Jan '08, 15:46 | X
                                                                • serious question

                                                                  how do you avoid buying farmed fish? Is this marked on packaging/fish counters?

                                                                  doctornovocalcords @homesick_alien | 14 Jan '08, 15:34 | X
                                                                  • Most of the fresh fish

                                                                    (at least in Sainsbury's, anyway) says where it's from, e.g. line caught from sustainable sources or farmed.

                                                                    It's mostly the cheap frozen stuff that is generally unsustainable, etc. I don't buy frozen fish anyway. That said, even Birdseye fish fingers are sustainably sourced these days.

                                                                    homesick_alien @doctornovocalcords | 14 Jan '08, 15:42 | X
                                                                    • That said, I also think

                                                                      farmed fish is a lesser evil than freshwater fish being trawled to extinction.

                                                                      homesick_alien @homesick_alien | 14 Jan '08, 15:45 | X
                                                                      • thanks

                                                                        I will look at packaging more carefully!

                                                                        doctornovocalcords @homesick_alien | 14 Jan '08, 15:49 | X
                                                                    • i don't understand how people find these threads

                                                                      klaire @look-at-it-this-way | 25 Mar '08, 18:02 | X
                                                                      • I was thinking the same thing

                                                                        it seems to come out second on a google search though. But then there is the bother of joining up just to post one thing in the middle of an old thread.

                                                                        doctornovocalcords @klaire | 25 Mar '08, 18:17 | X
                                                                    • i've given up breathing

                                                                      cruelty to air.

                                                                      brusma | 14 Jan '08, 15:47 | X
                                                                      • for some reason

                                                                        this term annoys me immensely

                                                                        Jesus_Quintana @brusma | 14 Jan '08, 17:31 | X
                                                                    • i'm really surprised

                                                                      that bbq pringles are vegan.
                                                                      ot sure why but i assumed they had animal extract in them!

                                                                      walkingwithwolves | 14 Jan '08, 17:36 | X
                                                                    • being raped?

                                                                      maybe

                                                                      by a fish?

                                                                      J-Rock @myfirstmine | 14 Jan '08, 19:57 | X
                                                                      • that's a whole porn genre

                                                                        right there. Nazi fish porn. Merciless I tell ya.

                                                                        J-Rock @_vikram | 14 Jan '08, 19:59 | X
                                                                      • How about people who say they're going to tape something

                                                                        when they actually mean they're going to record it on Sky+? There's no tape in there, you idiot!

                                                                        Zapsta @myfirstmine | 14 Jan '08, 20:02 | X
                                                                        • Or people who refer to flat panel monitors/televisions

                                                                          as "flat screen"? The screen is just the glass bit! Plenty of monitors/televisions have flat screens without being flat panels!

                                                                          Zapsta @Zapsta | 14 Jan '08, 20:03 | X
                                                                          • like a vegetarian

                                                                            who eats meat... NOT A VEGETARIAN.

                                                                            When did the concept become so complicated? I blame it on political correctness. And Nazi fish porn.

                                                                            J-Rock @AdamShankly | 14 Jan '08, 20:03 | X
                                                                            • 0/10

                                                                              Fucking seriously.

                                                                              ChrisJabe @AdamShankly | 14 Jan '08, 20:08 | X
                                                                              • I believe that they could say that the

                                                                                omega 3 fats are common in fishy oil. However linseed for example also contains these.

                                                                                also fish are not mammalian and therefore not as close to us, therefore distancing us

                                                                                creakyknees | 25 Mar '08, 18:00 | X
                                                                              • I know two pescatarianism

                                                                                One takes it for vitamin b12, there is no other natural way for otherwise veggies to get it.

                                                                                The other is my flatmate. He switched from veggieism since getting a Japanese gf who works at a sushi bar. As his original argumetn for being veggie was moral he can't find a reason for his change..apart from the fact he has a hot gf....

                                                                                countzero | 25 Mar '08, 18:05 | X
                                                                                • pescatarians....*

                                                                                  or something

                                                                                  countzero @countzero | 25 Mar '08, 18:09 | X
                                                                                • I can understand his reason

                                                                                  and it is perfectly natural.

                                                                                  creakyknees @countzero | 25 Mar '08, 18:19 | X
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