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I love birds, especially their tits and shagging them and that.
and make me a cup of tea.
and i'm not sure i'd like to associate with someone who isn't.
Feminists are gay.
Next to Paraguay...
only with Argentina and Brazil.
Get yr geography right.
roughly 10-15 feminist essays over the past two weeks, and frankly, I wish they'd just shut the fuck up and let me get back to reading Terry Pratchett novels.
all im saying is: feminists are gay. Of course women should have equal pay and all that stuff, but wanting women to be treated equally isnt feminism, its just common sense, so SHURRUP
And loving your own tits is gay too.
Which I have decided, after a brief glance at it's wiki page, is totally gay.
You can't beat an informed viewpoint.
because i always usually "win" after my first sentence.
seriously, i'm finding it harder to tell if you're trying to be funny or not.
it's just the same joke 100 times over ceases to be funny - ooh - about the 3rd time around.
"SAFETY WINK! ;)"
but i dunno, "feminism" suggests its a girls-doing-it-for-themselves sort of thing, rather than just not being a nob to one and other. Our society doesent oppress women at a cultural level, and women themselves are probably partly responsible, as said below.
there's loads. If you think about it in terms of how you perceive females around you, you'll realise the deep rooted sexism that still exists even in the smallest of things.
our society doesn't oppress women on a legal level- on a cultural level it still does to some extent (I mean, see below, with Nuts and that). I mean, just take Barbie dolls for instance- they're given to little girls but if she was real, by her actual proportions, she wouldn't be able to menstruate, so... its not really a healthy image to be indoctrinating young girls into, is it?
so it'd be pretty hard for her to menstruate regardless.
Barbie's dream vulva accessory kit.
Oh to meet the sick genius who actually took the time to think this up.
now all that's needed is "Ken's amazing erection set".
"Ken's fabulous tears set" for when Ken's amazing erection set goes off too early.
oh man, this is way better than the princess series I had when I was a kid.
HAH! is that a joke?
our society oppresses men and women at a cultural level, but both forms of oppression stem from expected ideals of the feminine, derived from an aggressive and patriarchal culture.
i mean that anything that is done is self inflicted, because everyones a moron.
Despite crablin being pretty gay in his "parody" thread, he's got a point. Everyone should just stop being dicks. I know I try not to be a dick, despite evidence to the contrary in this thread. It really wouldnt be that hard. It's just... basic.
There's always going to be conflict in society, no matter how easy it would be to bite our collective tongues. It would just take one person mouthing off to spoil it all for everyone else.
Although personally yeah, I think it would be cool.
Everyone needs to GET WIT DA FUNK
it's about women getting equality by removing the attitudes in society that force them to conform to a 'feminine' ideal, and that ridiculous feminine ideal is what prevents women (and, incidentally men) from reaching equality.
it's not just hiking up women's pay and giving them maternity leave and suchlike, it's about changing attitudes towards women across society.
its all about how women are actually the ones guilty of opressing women by embracing raunch culture, idolising strippers and porn stars yaddayadda
the notion, post-sexual revolution, that men are mostly only interested in sex, which is transmitted by publications like Nuts to a massive degree.
the idea of the book is highlighting the fact that women are responsable too, however i think it lacks a clear conclusion, and her points of view arn't very clear throughout the book.
"LOOK! A SEXY LADY! BUY! BUY!"
I know it's in context but it pisses me off anyway.
Are there other, better books?
i can imagine reading it would make me feel like a shit excuse of a woman
I might give this a go too.
ive got loads of reading to finish off before i can get to it
getting the library to order this one in.
start with the Simon Reynolds books that's linked to it on that page.
but i will give it a go, probably.
A liberal feminist though.
Not a Marxist / radical one.
i'm not wearing a bra!!! i didn't burn it though.
Oh my god, I AM a feminist
they made a moob bra.
I'm practically mr burns
this feminism malarkey has gone TOO FAR. It's time to take a step back
Also: feminism is not just believing in women's equality, it refers to a specific political ideology which champions the rights of all minorities. Feminism used to be an issue which divided the sexes, modern feminism means that we should be united- it isn't about a 'struggle' anymore.
however it is very relevant in societies where women are seen as second class citizens.
Also, i think today, its not about the struggle for equality, but more so about the way women are percived still as objects of sexual desire, and how women are happy to be seen as objects of sexual desire.
ugh, im done im waaay hungover
Enforce mandatory 2 hours of Sleater Kinney a day to every citizen of such countries?
your 'shtick' or whatever hasn't even been entertaining for a long time. give it up.
What IS funny is "adults" getting wound up by said posters... Whoever they may be, of course.
Im not intending to wind anyone up; it's a sunday afternoon, i'm really bored and posting clearly half thought out arguments about a subject I have very little investment in. Which is, basically, funny.
i think the fact that nuts,zoo, page three ect exist is proof enough
and all that other bad shit they have in them.
Besides, i've never met anyone that wasnt a moron that read Nuts or whatever. These people probably dont even vote, and all the women they associate with seem more than happy to put up with their misogyny. These guys are still getting laid. It's ridiculous.
also the range of topics covered in such magazines do suggest that women are for sex, clothes and clebrities. Have you ever tried to buy a sensible magazine in a newsagents? Private eye = mens section, for intance. ANY magazine that deals with an interest seriously is in the male part of the shop. All the fluffy celebrity/sex magazines are in the women's part.
women's magazines seem, at least as far as sex is concerned, to be obsessed with teaching women how to change their boyfriends rather than themselves.
i can only assume that if you think that the idea that women should be submissive and pleasure-giving is portrayed in women's lifestyle magazines, you simply haven't read any of them..
there are far more pages on 'self improvement' than there are 'improve your boyfriend', although there are plenty of them too.
It's all diet fads for 'the perfect body' and 'sexy' dresses. I can think of loads of examples of the former but I'm actually kind of struggling to think of any for the latter. And yeah, I have read woman's magazines.
Because it has some connotations that I don't really want to be associated with. But I completely believe in equal rights, and I get so angry at misogynistic men, or situations where women are being oppressed etc. But not to the point where I've actually actively protested against anything. And I don't like all these extreme 'feminists' who go on about how women are better than men etc because to me, that makes them just as bad as misogynistic men.
And the Pankhursts annoy me. Mainly because they were militant though, and I hate militancy. Their cause was good though (obv.)
I don't think women should have greater rights than men and I don't think men should have greater rights than women.
At the moment it still isn't a level playing field so there is a need for feminism.
as a feminist but I do think both the sexes should be equal. But then I probably wouldn't mind staying at home and having a rich husband...
If I get rich first, you can my stay at home wife. If you get rich first, I get to be your stay at home husband.
If neither of us get rich we move onto other wealthy targets.
a plan...what is this whole working for money concept anyway?
Give me some wealthy woman who'll pay for everything I need and I'll be happy.
Some of you need to man the fuck up. Even though Wikipedia says feminism's all about equal rights and shit, I don't really think of it as such. I'm quite equal rightish by nature though, so maybe inherently, I am. But I'm not like "Women's football, yeah!". And I think ladies should be treated like ladies, okay? So shoot me. Jesus Christ.
the genders, but I wouldn't exactly label myself a feminist.
My high school teacher once asked why girls who sleep around are called sluts and whores, but when it comes to guys they are praised as studs.
I think the reason is that women are attributed with having more emotional intelligence and more sensitivity, so when they go against these aspects supposed feminine traits they are labelled sluts.
Of course I don't agree with this, but I think is a viable explanation.
as we've seen. I'm not sure that the result of "equality" (which I'm not sure is possible in any situation) would be its natural consequence...Not offering much here I know
the idea that the outside world follows and subscribes to edicts and thoughts of the world of ideas/academia is possibly unrealistic? In many ways change occurs in the converse direction?
Though I did bust out an amazing uni essay on Post-War Changing Attitudes towards Feminism. My one and only 90+
i've decided it probably depends on what you mean by feminism.
From one person who doesent know the other, to the other who doesnt know the person: "hi"
that yes_ and RockNRollMassacre are actually just the same person from alternate universes, comic book-style.
but i consider myself an egalitarian, if that's the same thing.
i consider myself a rational human being, and thus, don't feel the need to celebrate/argue about women being equal. it would be like celebrating/arguing about the fact that both carrots and peas are vegetables.
= third wave
All women should be, and all men who give a shit.
With most intelligent, moral people there are no problems, but sadly there are too many bigoted men in positions of power (eg my ex boss - chair of a successful London financial co.) and too many sport/mail reading idiots who generalise about women horribly who are all to ready to dismiss the opinions of women.
Equally, I am completely anti bands of man-hating women.
Anyone who hates/dismisses a whole group of people is a bit of an idiot really.
it's just comparable to accepting that people have different opinions and if their choice is to be ignorant cretins, then go ahead.
Apathy is literally killing our world.
regardless of how strongly you feel for them.
i agree that the discrimination, either blatant or subtle, is unacceptable and i choose not to concern myself with people who display such beliefs.
however, i feel it's somewhat counter-intuitive to label yourself a 'feminist', when no positive action can be attained. sexist people will stay sexist, and people with the right attitude about gender values (i.e. most of the people in this thread) will continue being better people for it.
I wasn't referring to people who aren't feminists, I was referring to the people who are the problem that feminists fight against. And also to women who are sexist towards men.
though i disagre with the term 'feminist' as it implies a level of supremecy that i don't agree with.
i'm more of an 'equalist' i suppose, believe that both sexes should have equal rights.
Read the thread. Apparently wanting equal freedoms for men and women is WRONG, and us personally, as males, are inherently chauvinistic EVEN IF YOU DONT TRY TO BE.
'how can you say I hate women, my mum is a woman!' yet.
and have made excellent work of changing the perception of women. Some of the conclusions they come to though are SILLY.
Is feminism just supposed to be equality of the sexes? But that doesn't really make sense considering few people would admit to being against that. Oh I don't know. It's too confusing.
the definition of 'feminism' but the definition of 'equality'
do we have equality when men and women earn exactly the same amount of money irrespective of how in demand their services are? or do we have equality if men and women have identical opportunities to pursue careers etc?
y'see, i think most people think it's a sign of an unequal society if a woman chooses a low-paid profession but still earns less than a man who chose a well paid one
Especially if you were a maverick gynaecologist.
Let me go
I'm a man - it'd be like cheering for the Germans.
absolutely, oppression or supression by men and dominatant heterosexual ideologies has always been very real to me.
although for a while i spazzed out on postmodernism and queer stuff. but these don't cancel out feminism necessarily.
i did my dissertation about subverting binary gender categories. i did my pgce research project about a similar thing and attitudes to learning and school. i will do my masters on gender/sexuality and education too. then my phd. it will be fun.
Im a hetero man, but I dont think that any of my ideologies supress or oppress anyone.
Because I tend not to abide by the rules of an established ideology, then I often have not been taken seriously.
I know what you mean, but care must always been taken to ensure that firm lines are not drawn between people, I was brought up by my mum and nan and this probably is partly responsible for my having no truck with 'big men'
I also subvert the binary gender catagories (I hope), despite being hertero.
People are individuals, some belonging more to various catagories or recognisable groupings than others.
Sometimes this is voluntary (as in wanting to be associated with a group(or disassociated with a group, or the main))
Sometimes this is involuntary. Attributes and presumptions are assigned to various groupings.
Sometimes hatred and bile is presented to people for being in groups, nd sometimes it is presented to people who other think should conform to the groups standards, but who do not.
Feminism was a very useful movement to attack a 'seeming across the board discrimination against women.
Although I think I am (or have been) a feminist, I feel that we should all now prefer ourselves to be 'anti discriminationists' (which of course would include feminism)
i know you dont know me or my background.
but pls dont assume i essentialise members of groups or have hatred and bile towards men.
maybe that's not what you meant but that's what it seemed like.
My post obviously came out wrong.
I was just saying that people who discriminate do that sometimes.....I meant like daily mail readers hate and bile eastern european immigrants (see what I did there? I ironically generalised against daily mail readers)
and as for my other example of hatred and bile I was actually thinking of how some women will often oppress other women for say, not shaving their armpits.....or legs. When I was posting their I wasnt commenting on you at all.
I was just trying to say I see it as a broader fight now
that my gf's shave their armpits or legs or wear high heels or stuff.
I like them as individuals, if they want to wear a revealing or s**y dress then thats nice and I like it and I am then not slightly castigated by crap male mates that I have, but the idea of peer pressure stopping me going out with someone that I really like just because she doesnt shave her pits or wutever is ludicrous to me.
I was trying to say that group discrimination is a complicated thing, because (for instance) Mrs knees does now remove underarm hair........not because of any male pressure but because of implied (yet unsaid) peer pressure (from her female work colleagues)
people belong to different groups and have different ascribed and subscribed identities.
I'm asking to be taken the wrong way sometimes
I cant even get that right
in the sense that there is very definitely a patriarchal superstructurewhich ascribes restrictive gender roles to all.
Of course it's a wide-ranging term that could mean any number of things but nonetheless I've never been comfortable with it in that, strictly speaking, any kind of - isms relates to a preference of one thing over another. So for example, nationalism means favouring your nationality over others, sexism means favouring your gender over others and racism means favouring your race over others.
I myself belief in equal opportunities for all and for this reason would be uncomfortable with the idea of being a feminist.
of what feminism is here, that seems fair enough. Traditionally though, feminism is the an ideology which strives for equality of oppourtunity for both genders (and indeed those between the two) so would be compatible with such a stance.
Perhaps this thread shows the difference between being feminist and being A feminist?
They don't like that
It's definately 'doth'.
You pubic wig.
After all this time - only to find out I am wrong. I would've gotten away with it if it wasn't for you pesky kids with your pesky broadband.
So, yes - I wear the merkin.
(wipes eyes streaming with tears)
for arguing in a thread about feminists, or feminism, or something, so I'm gonna shush.
ISNT THAT HOW THE INTERNET WORKS
1. Would like to say I was 'trolling' the whole time. Probably wasn't, can't remember because
2. I was 16.
3. Think I was pretty depressed back then. Good ole' school.
4. Not entirely sure what i'm going on about for most of the time, so I probably was taking the piss to some degree.