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or that Anne Coulter is the pin up of many a neo nazi?
that you can say anything as long as you say 'allegedly'
Also what if it is true? What if these people are admired by such groups, what if they do 'speak their doctrine' surely this is a link?
And no, I don't think so, as long as you qualify that that 'link' is just that Nick Griffin (and possibly others?) have endorsed her column.
that was my 'link' I of course would not mind that this association is made as it would draw the publics attention to the similarity of viewpoint and might ake the readers consider whether they would be drifting towards facism were they to follow her views
Fascists are to some extent ideologically consistent. Melanie Philips is just hopelessly reactionary and stupid.
Then they're probably not the types who consider stuff much.
My understanding was that Fascism (in the original sense of the word to describe the Italian government under Mussolini) wasn't that idealogically consistent at all, hence the difficulty in actually defining what Fascism is.
are sufficient for many mail readers to become more supportive of the bnp and facist groups.
By contributing to the popularity and support of far right groups she could also be seen as a recruiting factor by these groups......does this make her linked in other ways.
Because people can disguise themselves to achieve something by a non direct manner, of course I have no proof that that is her intention, in fact I dont believe that she is deliberately covertly recruiting.....its a question of culpability...........(using the relationship of murder vs manslaughter)
by her irresponsible and reckless use of persuasion and incorrect inconsistant argument she has promoted and increased extreme absolutist and absurdist right wing facistic bordering support......I would say that she is an ally of facism.....she pulls people who are not already extreme enough to be full on facists, further to the right so that they are then more easily swayed by facism............she also has an awful lot of unelected power and influence on the public voters........if she were just someone in the street then my rant against her would be unfairly attacking and seeking to bring her down.......my aim would be the very reasonable one of wishing to diminish her unelected influence over at least several thousand votes
But yeah Mussolini's fascism has very little to do with neo-fascism- it "essentially amounts to an extreme form of state worship" according to my old politics textbooks. He was also in no way racialist before WW2.
or prove it to be a reasonable conclusion based on available evidence.
especially if the person involved were not rich enough to pay them her ant money?
Is it libellous to say that I hope her typing hand falls and is eaten by a pack of wild dogs before surgeons get a chance to re-attatch it?
that you do idly hope for that
did these boards start taking libel into account?
It would certainly be defamation of character to link her to a neo-facist group or organistation, because she isn't a member of any of them.
But if you could draw reasonable comparisons between the viewpoints she expresses in her articles and those of a more 'established' neo-facist, communicate them in the appropriate language and provide evidence, it would be difficult to win a case against you.
I think anyway
remind me....one is written and the other is verbal? n'est pas?
apparently blogs and podcasts are not needed to have the same burden of proof as published printed stuff (although they are looking on tightening it up)
Where do chatrooms/forums stand?
Popbitch and the like must have already dealt with shallow aspects (concerning celebrities and salicious humourous stories)
Anyone got any ideas on serious topics and serious issues (Regarding unsubstantiated claims, but with good intentions......for the overall public.......rather than just malicious gossip?)
a podcast or put up a blog or stuff......Im not saying there should be a difference, but I know that there is talk of clarifying all of this (not sure if its already been done or if there is a precedance yet?)
are surely accepted by many as being diaries/logs of opinions/thought developement......not always statement of fact.
Newspapers and reports imply that this is factual (I know thats a bit of a laugh, but there you go)
do newspapers have to have some sort of license? I mean they can be sued for malpractice in ways that comics could not be........why are newspapers subject to the press complaints comittee? are comics also subject to this? I presumed that newspapers must be needed to be classified as such.
In practice people are less likely to sue a blog as relatively few people would read a blog as compared to a newspaper and legal action would publicise what the blog said in a way which the person who was libelled would wish to avoid.
But the law's the same and anyone who writes a blog that's libellous could be legally sued.
"Melanie Phillips increases the support of facism within our society, possibly unwittingly."
Is that statement OK to print?
"Melanie Phillips increases the catchment pool for recruits to facist groups"
Hoes that one?
a rare public platform to broadcast many views held by facist groups, a platform that they themselves would be unable to speak from"
OK? or not OK?
How about "Melanie Phillips is an ignorant cunt"?
Is that okay to print? What about if framed in a question?
...there's not much of a future in being a jewish neo-nazi, is there?!
There seems to be a tendecy amongst some on these boards to consider anyone to the right of Polly Toynbee a fascist.
Phillips is preaching to the converted anyway, I don't believe that any moderate or liberal, whether from the left or the right of the political spectrum has ever read one of her articles and experienced some sort of instant 'Road to Damascus' moment.
I'm a conservative, but, I find myself way to the left of the current regime on the majority of issues.
The dynamics of British politics are shifting, Phillips is pretty harmless in the grand scheme of things.
You can be a fascist and a Jew. Fascism does not equal nazism.
But surely it can't be possible to be a fascist and religious?
Don't see why not.
And if she were really religious, she wouldn't be such a cunt.
an undivided loyalty to the state? Religion wouldn't really flourish...
If the state is a theocracy?
the state IS King, but if the state considers itself to be acting on behalf of God, they're one and the same anyway.
L'etat c'est moi?
c'est MOI. :-D
Fascists are often highly religious people, and fascist movements in any society usually have a wide range of groups within that society to victimise, demonise, scapegoat, dehumanise, abuse, beat, murder... It's all about deciding where the prevailing winds of hatred are blowing, and how they can be harnessed for your own purposes. Melanie Phillips and her ilk - regardless of their own religious beliefs, albeit depressingly often because of them - are simply very apt at choosing their targets, and expressing their intolerably ignorant views in a way that a) makes them sound something very much like an intellectual until you actually pay attention to the words, and b) appeals to both people who very proudly have no brain, and people who are slighly ashamed to have no brain but adore gaining fodder for their after-dinner atrocities by reading half-baked articles by people with no frame of reference beyond their own tiny, blinkered views and therefore cannot be argued with. Wilful ignorance is key, provided it is absolute.
"Fascism is an authoritarian political ideology (generally tied to a mass movement) that considers individual and other societal interests subordinate to the interests of the state. Fascists seek to forge a type of national unity, usually based on (but not limited to) ethnic, cultural, racial, religious attributes. Various scholars attribute different characteristics to fascism, but the following elements are usually seen as its integral parts: nationalism, statism, militarism, totalitarianism, anti-communism, corporatism, populism, collectivism, and opposition to economic and political liberalism."
that last bit in quotations is from Wikipedia.
I wouldn't disagree but if you look at the fascist states that have risen in the past century, the shared religious attributes emphasised upon to create an initial sense of unity are eventually pushed out in favour of loyalty solely to the state
and other than that rather good movie, the title of which escapes me, I don't think you'll find many real life neo-nazis who are A-OK with judaism.
But, that's academic, she is not a fascist.
Too many people are taking a stance akin to Neil from The Young Ones, if everyone that disagrees with the Guardian's editorial position is a fascist, then we already live in a fascist state.
doesn't make you fascist, even with their fascist-lovin' past; likewise, writing fascist fuel doesn't necessarily make you a fascist either.
Melanie Phillips probably doesn't see herself as a fascist, and to be fair probably isn't, but her words - on science, on gay rights, on those pesky Muslims especially - are manna from heaven to those who have a interest in pushing an agenda of intolerance - I mean, if it's printed, in books and in a newspaper, it MUST be the truth. Right?
(although one would wonder about the choice in this) however I am sure that the daily mail would not use a columnist such as myself (even if one of you guys proof read me and smartened my stuff up)
I suspect that the daily mails accomodating of columnist who like generalising and then picking on particular groupings is actually closely linked to the emergence of facism.
No one springs forth from their mothers womb a fully formed facist. They move to it by unsubtle and poorly qualified generalising of populations.
I also dont recollect seing my sort of posts or arguments in the guardian, they have never published any of my letters
I never said she was a facist. If you are saying that i did i believe i might have a libel case against YOU.
Au contraire, I consider Phillips to be harmful, some threats do not come from the fringes of extemism, the weight of the numbers of people whose views she helps shift to the right......or confirm the unsure uncertain, unthinking rightwingers, who otherwise could not string an argument together is more significant than the lunatic fringe.