Your are viewing a read-only archive of the old DiS boards. Please hit the Community button above to engage with the DiS !
Does that mean if the UK went to war with their parents' country of birth, they'd want the latter to win?
better send em back just in case though!
But i've not idea.
with equating war and sport even in a manner as trivial as this.
what about the other way round? think how many sporting people we have nicked - that could've chosen other nationalities. Amir Khan, every 100M runner ever, half our cricket team, EMILE HESKEY!
I hate those people.
no I don't. I was thinking of something else. People like Owen Hargreaves. And DECO. God.
was born to English Parents and I think
ALL his siblings were born in England.
Deco i'm not sure about
His mum's Welsh.
but got Portuguese citizenship through a thing they have about people from the former colonies who have lived there for at least 6 years being eligible for naturalisation. dont think everyone approved at the time, noone seems to care now...
I knew Deco was born in Brazil. But as he is Caucasian assumed he had Portugese parents, rather than being a purely naturalised player
he's a purely naturalised player, i think figo was disapproved of him playing for portugal when he first got into the national team.
the caucasian thing isnt really an indicator in that way in Brazil.
perhaps in the same way that a name like Eduardo Da Silva suggest Croatia have taken a Brazilian who isn't good enough for Brazil.
a big part of the brazilian population is made up of descendents of people who wouldve moved there during portuguese colonial rule (which ended in the 19th century) for whatever reason. there isnt really an indigenous population in Brazil any more, or at least, no moreso than there is one in the USA. so being caucasian in Brazil doesnt make you any less likely to have a family that has lived there for several generations than being any from any other ethnic group. kinda like being black in the US doesnt really make you less likely to be 'american', if you see what i mean?
Portugese Emmigration came in the early 20th century and to a slightly smaller extent in the late 19th century.
This was because slavery was abolished in the mid 19th century and Brazil's growing economy needed workers, hence millions of portugese moving.
it's an identity thing isn't - their parents' background is something that differentiates them from their peers and therefore they see their identity within it (and would probably get the piss taken out of them by English friends if said country of origin got beat)
It's similar to how since I've lived away from Bristol I've taken far more interest in how Bristol City are doing. Whereas in Bristol lots of people support them and it wasn't a big deal, when you're away and no-one else does it becomes a far bigger part of your identity.
I actually only started gigging after I moved away from Bristol - my intial reason for starting to do it was 'cos I was living in London, couldn't find a permanent job and didn't know anyone and needed to do something to
a) get me out the house
b) attempt to get some kind of social life.
Obviously the vendetta with fullerov was a factor in me moving away too.
I'm trying to work if that's any different to someone coming over to the UK for an education or not, and then staying here. I'm going to say it's different, because that's easier.
People who come to the UK from other countries though - they're basically doing it because their country's shit, aren't they? And because our country's awesome. So support our country, you bastards. And if I could get quasi-Daily Mail for a moment - I really couldn't care less if you come over here and take our jobs and our school places and clog up the NHS, but is it so much to ask for you to support England in the World Cup in return?! No, it's not.
As for taking the piss out of them at school, I could never do it, because I was too pissed off by the fact that they wanted India to beat England in the first place. I'd just stare at them in disbelief, and with a tiny bit of hate. Although if they're planning to go and live in India as soon as they have complete independence from their parents, I guess that's okay. But I doubt they do.
I do genuinely dislike it, but the reasoning without doubt came afterwards, so how strong the connection is between the two, I don't know.
the fact I think sportsmen should play for their country of birth suggests I don't believe it at all, because that would be hypocritical. In a way.
at people who support "anyone but england", but people who support India/Pakistan/whoever generally do so all the time, against anyone. Do you get pissed off if french people living in london support Marseilles instead of Fulham?
I've never found myself in that situation. I'll try to imagine myself in it now.
No, I'd probably be okay with that, because you can't really let go of your football club just because you've moved country. Which I guess kind of explains why second generation immigrants end up supporting their parents' country of birth - their parents support that country; their kids just follow in their footsteps.
But I do think I associate the idea of not supporting England with an ungrateful attitude, rightly or wrongly, towards what this country offers them.
like what welsh people do, or just not taking an interest in the england team?
I think they're different degrees of the same thing.
isn't really a pleasure.
Most people would stay if they could have a good life here ( or express their political opinion in some cases ).
So it's normal they're supporting their country of origin.
As for their children, the country of their parents is often like an imaginary Arcadia... Not that they want to live there. Just that's it a part of them.
In a way, it really comes down to what you feel "my country" actually means, and while part of it is surely the political climate, the economic opportunities, etc, part of it is also the people, and even after leaving your country, you can continue to love and support them. God, I feel like I'm closing an episode of Scrubs.
you're a spoilt, silly little boy. Grow up.
Why am I spoilt?
when Harru asked if you were serious. I'm not wasting my time responding to what you've posted on this thread but I really do think you should read back over certain statements you've made.
You are spoilt, having a whine because people don't as you perceive it 'respect your country' you smack of those people that say immigrants should forget their own culture and heritage if they move here. What about all the expats in other countries from Britain , should they support the sporting teams of their host countries?
What I have a problem with is people rejecting any form of British identity, not refusing the reject any other cultural identity. Is that okay? Or is that xenophobic as well?
it's just really fucking narrow-minded.
that people should have an affinity for the country they live in? Why?
i don't prefer britain over every other country. and it's pretty arrogant of you to suggest that, as a resident of the british isles, i'm wrong to have that viewpoint.
im half spanish. I have nothing to do with english football/sports and usualy wish defeat against them. i support spain in most sports. But i dont see myself as english either so...
but I don't not support england.
I think people that support their parents country but don't also support england are silly.
If it is head to head ... I just want a good clean fight!
in recent times seem to have multiple people that aren't born in England - Solanki, KP, Shah, G Jones and Prior off the top of my head. Not to mention Hussain was CAPTAIN for ages. Yes, they've infiltrated the command too.
I'm 2nd gen myself and I support England in most stuff but if it's England v India cricket, then I'll go with India. If they lose, that's cool too. It's really not a big deal. I see it as win-win.
In general, I'm finding zapsta's attitude a bit bizarre. There are plenty of people born in England, to English parents, who don't give a flying monkeys if England qualify for/win a tournament!
I never knew he had a DiS username.
Personally, as a second gen Indian, I've always supported both England and India in cricket. When they play each other, I normally have mixed feelings about who I support, and just want to see a good contest.
I definitely feel more British than anything else and identify far more with western culture than my parents' heritage. But to suggest that it's 'ungrateful' for second generation immigrants to support their country of ethnic origin, and to feel 'disbelief and hate' towards them, is honestly a little disturbing.
I'm saying it's ungrateful to *not* support England/the UK (whichever is relevant).
that's what he just said.
he's assuming that you can only support one country.
the pure-blood british royalty?
do you think that, just because we let them live in our country, that they must give up their own national identity in exchange for ours, the kind-hearted souls who took them in and let them live? is that how it works?
well, fuck. why don't we bring back national service but only send the poles? let's make it goddamn certain who's boss around here, eh?
Nice try though!
and yet God Save Our Gracious Queen is taken as some sort of clarion-call to British patriots.
Kind of shows how ridiculous the whole thing is.
i wouldn't go as far as 'most retarded argument on DiS ever', because there have been a few.
it would certainly make the top ten, though.
watched the Eng v India 7th ODI the other day. He is second gen Indian via South Shields. His philosophy is he supports England whenever they're playing, unless they're playing India, in which case he supports both teams but feels an attachment to India.
When I was a teacher I used to teach various first gen Sri Lankans, and the cricket was on. Banter in my classroom was first-rate. If everyone supported England, it would be dull.
Anyway, asking someone to make a categorical judgement as to their affiliations when they've got a whole load of different cultural influences in their background is not nice, because it presumes that your idea of what constitutes 'membership of your culture' is the correct one for everyone, which is plain *wrong*. This applies both to people who say 'SUPPORT ENGLAND' AND to people who say 'REJECT WESTERN VALUES'.
That's when, when I was replying to lyle, I was trying to establish where your sense of nationality actually comes, and in the end I decided that I'd probably simplified the whole thing a bit to much. But for someone to live here and feel no British identity *at all*? I think I have every right to find that offensive.
and i don't feel i have a british identity. really. AND my mother is british.
SO. was me living in ireland with an english mother, and supporting Rep. of Ireland, learning irish, being a mild republican, mean i'm offending the english way? or even being here at all?
i understand about assimilating into society. which, many groups haven't as well as others. but what society anyway? the high tea drinking polo playing society? they're moving here, creating a new life for themselves, and hopefully integrating yet keeping a sense of where they came from. i for one, would hope that if i have children here, they will be knowledgeable and proud of their heritage, and feel strong links to their irishness. i plan to try and teach my children irish, and i would most likely encourage them to support ireland.
it's all about supporting the underdog, as such, innit.
'I'm saying it's ungrateful to *not* support England/the UK (whichever is relevant).'
i...... there are no words.
but they're likely to offend a few people. and i'll get angry. and i'm not in the mood for a fight at the moment.
just, ridiculous. just, argh. it frustrates me.
it pissed me off during France 98 when the muslims decided to support Tunisia against England. But then that's no different to me supporting Spain against France, or Mexico against Argentina is it? So yeah, I don't really care now. I would like to point out that to compare sport and war is like comparing Pluto to Jupiter.
but then one got found out to be just a rock? or something?
and ones the biggest?
and another zing!
I support Ireland at rugby. My Irish uncle got me into rugby, and I feel it gives me a connection to my heritage. I cheer on the England football team but snigger when the rugby team loses to shit countries. That said, I was cheering like mad when Jonny dropped that goal in 2003, mostly cause Aussies annoy the shit out of me.
Have I offended you? If so, please get a life, it's SPORT. You know. Like A GAME!
imperialism is good. Because in the olden days, when England would have played India in the cricket, it would effectively have been England v Greater English Reich.
on what kind of Communism you mean.
I suspect that even if Communism completely dominated the world, that National boundaries would still remain.
To be honest I've never really noticed you on here before, so I'm not sure what you're usually like...
And I'm not even sure if you're being serious in this thread, it's just so absurd...
You're a cunt, anyway.