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in or out?
DANNA NAAH NOWWWW, DANNA NAAH NAH NOWWWW
my thoughts on opening this thread
One More Ostentatius Keyboard Solo And I'm Going To Do It
I Don't Use A Hairdryer, I Prefer An Industrial Fan
very much so.
You're obviously wrong !
national solidarity and all that. That vote was taken on a micro political level, as a protest about someone, not about the issue itself.
he got a vote. We haven't been given the chance. Maybe the (UK) Government are scared the people might not want to be lead down the path we're going.
I am anti tory naysayers who whip up a fuss about legislative control. Let's face it, how different is most of europe from an ideological and moral perspective to us? Very little, say I. Cameron is a shallow minded opportunist who is trying to pretend that the continent is full of savages. And as for changing our human rights act- the man is clearly a fool and an attention seeker. Fucking etonians.
where you showed your inability to form a coherent argument without reverting to the playground, i think you are wrong.
It is not a case of whipping up a fuss about legislative control, it's about discussing in a cool-headed manner the very real issue of sovereign control and the ever growing cost of an ever-expanding bureaucracy.
Furthermore, we are ideologically and morally different from a number of European states, Turkey being the obvious example. The other, most obvious difference, is language.
we are all from the same stock. Sovereign control matters less and less in this day and age with corporations, NGOs and other pressures being exerted on the sovereign state. Surely we should centralise and solidify what control we have?
Also: sorry I got angry. I really dislike Nu-Tory though
"constitution" gives up very little power, though...
but if the vote was now, I'm sure it would be 70% against Europe.
French are more and more anxious about Europe.
i say IN.
then yes, yes i do, and i like it that way
right leg out
if it's not going to have an effect on that i really don't care.
Aren't we in for good anyway? Or is there an escape mechanism?
And equally important for us to be fully behind Europe. It gives the nations of Europe a chance to trade on a level stage with the super powers of the world, and provides heightened bargaining power.
However, I do not agree with the way it is set up and governed, as there is so little accountability for those involved. One only has to look at the case of that journalist whos career they ruined and tried to jail for reporting cases of fraud of European ministers. It is corrupt to the core and needs cutting. The beaurocracy also needs severely cutting, and genuine experts need to be employed when formulating policy. Each country should have equal weighting on police matters as it is likely to affect as many adversely as it benefits.
In a nutshell, I like the idea of a united Europe though hate the current state of affairs.
then shake it all about
(metaphor or not? YOU DECIDE)
With 'Out of Europe now' and 'Say no to the Euro', stuff like that.
Well you never see bumper stickers with the opposite on, until now. People should coat their cars in stickers which say 'Euro - Fucking Amazing', 'I love Europe', 'Europe - better then sexy time'. It would be awesome.
And you get to wind a few people up. What's not to lose?
I realise the immaturity of this post in a serious thread.
want to go into the bumper sticker business?
but i also like the idea of intelligent, even handed, informed debate and i doubt theres any chance we'd see anything like that here in the UK. Not with all the half-truths and misinformation spewing forth from the likes of the sun, littlejohn, ukip and (occasionally) the tories.
Europe in it's current unwieldy botch job form, tacked together with watered down treaties and held back by petty nationalism and economic protectionism can't really do the job it's supposed to anyway. In theory i like the idea of european unity and co-operation, but i doubt 'it' even knows what it's supposed to be doing anymore. There is a lot of good could come from a centralised european authority in certain policy areas, and not necessarily the ones it has sway over at the moment.
Unfortunately the only people really in a position to sit back and evaluate whats needed from europe and what it wants to be are many of the same people who'd be doing themselves out of the job if the much needed reform came about.
And as the cliche goes, turkeys don't vote for xmas.
he was OK. a bit quiet, but OK. liked his cricket. spoke 10 languages. we're in good hands.
About 99% of reasons euro-sceptics have for wanting to leave are just made up.
(^non-made up fact. i swear.)
out. I thank you all for taking the time to participate.
Definitely in. WE ARE PART OF EUROPE FOR GODS SAKE. Splendid isolation/rejecting Europe for US = wrongwrongwrong
in fact, if the EU were a person, I would marry it.
But I'm biased.
I'm fed up with people like my grandad saying we should stay out of Europe. He seems to be deluding himself into believing the UK still has an empire and is a major world power.
Gibraltar? The Falklands? We OWN this planet, baby!
I'm moving to Spain.
If we don't bring by hanging by noon then I'm moving to Dubai to live with Jim Davidson.
I mourn the loss of european currencies and I fear the homogenisation of Europe into one big shopping mall with all the same fucking shops wherever you go. Don't get me wrong, I'm not Posh Spice or anything but surely countries are already losing their identities?
That's probably not a reason not to join though
but never the Euro
also it will never happen whilst Gordon Brown serves his fifteen terms of office
It's like Monopoly money and seems easier to spend
* this isn't my main or serious reason
It's a Franco-German conspiracy to leach off our riches!
people don't realise that the EU is not actually an awful 'bullying beast' at all, and should keep it in mind that all European governments like to play up the EU's role in unpopular decisions.
It means people are less likely to blame them.
but it is a pointless sprawling bureaucracy whose only purpose is to build roads in Ireland
EU is a political creation whose raison d'etre was to stop European wars
the European Commission has about 20,000 employees in total.
Marks & Spencers has about 60,000.
And I don't see why the fact that it's raison d'etre was to stop European wars is a drawback.
People should read this: http://ec.europa.eu/unitedkingdom/press/euromyths/index_en.htm
not one of the bent banana gang by any stretch. It just seems a bit pointless
more the 'BULLYING BEAST' gang.
That's fair enough, I suppose.
Just I don't think it's pointless at all, and I can't really see why people would think it was.
If somebody can just tell me WHAT exactly its point is I will die happy
say 'its' point, do you mean the point of the EU?
I don't know. I think the institution is expensice, overly bureaucratic and not particularly effective.
but I don't think that is reason enough to leave the EU.
The point of the EU integration between small European countries, who work together for the benefit of themselves and each other.
of the wealthier European nations that end up paying for all the smaller states. Essentially, I don't think we (UK) get very good value for money. We put in far more than we get out.
but there are other non-direct financial benefit.
I'd imagine if the British left the EU and suddenly had to pay tax on everything they imported from Europe, you'd complain about that too.
SCRAP THE POUND
William Hague-shaped tears. Tears of foetuses