Your are viewing a read-only archive of the old DiS boards. Please hit the Community button above to engage with the DiS !
at what point did man stop being a part of "nature"?
when nature stopped being able to adapt to our behavior.
so thats nature adapting to itself
the best TV programme ever made
still is a part of 'nature'. It is arrogant to think otherwise.
the 'm' for a 'f' and thats the best response ever.
and 100 dwarfs are comparable?
it's probably something to do with "the body" being "socially constructed"
we are the only species which can claim self-awareness
self awareness/self love
he could do better than nature.
because very few have thought that
I was serious.
Changing the human/animal body/gene.
Some people thought they were god and could change nature.
Nature as rejected us since...
most humans do not believe that the human gene should be changed, most humans do not think its nice or good to alter animal bodies, humans try to find more natural landscapes to go on holiday in, cityscapes are not as good for our soul.
What you mean to say is some humans exchanged being natural and in return gained increased social staus as a result.
These few humans first tried o make us humans feel ashamed of ourselves......of our bodies (its still going on except now its not a priest its advertising and media)they then denigrated that which we found beautiful and natural and praised artifice, whether it meant supressing your own emotions or pretending to worship an artificial deity whose 'desires' were relayed by these 'few' humans who got increased esteem as a result. Also power......if you have an inordinate unatural amount of power then you will need to use a large proportion of that to change that which is natural and normal so that the there is not a backlash against the abnormal unatural division of power/resource.......hence walls fenses maps much much legislature, passports, invisible lines (drone human slaves that can operate high velocity hot metals, enforce these invisible lines
but those 'power' people are directing the world for us...
however, it was the mechanistic philosophy of life that created a duality where mind was separated from matter and the soul from the body which led to our separation from mother nature and man's dominion over her. This began around the 16/17th century with Descartes & Newton & Francis Bacon being the main protagonists.
I'm not sure how ideas of dualism stretch to this. Surely this is two separate issues which may be linked due to a flourishing culture of ideas. Lots of those who decry or have decried dualism would also believe that man and nature are separate. Surely it is more to do with the entity of the body and self-awareness of that rather than the make-up of said body?
that dualism doesnt have to lead to the man-nature distinction. But, as miserabli outlined, in practice in western discourse, they've been made equivalent with each other, and collapsed into the same thing.
it's a line of thought i cant really think outside.
you sound reallly really seperated from nature.
because we are talking about philosophy? I feel quite connected with nature and animals actually, although London isn't good for that.
I dont think many people actually believe man and nature are separate in a fundamental sense, but the reality is, at least in popular discourse, that they are often regarded as such in practical terms.
see below \/
babies are natural till they get broken. OK they are put in plastic things but then so are animals such as cats going to the vets.....its true that domestic pets and horses and stuff are not part of a self determining eco system, but then again very little now is on the land mass, artificial systems regulate humans in most areas, but other animals are also hightly disrupted by artificial ststem that has humans as many of its cogs.
Many animals breeding is regulated by human systems......as indeed has human breeding in the past.
What you should aim to do is to reconnect......mentally and spiritually even if you cant do it totally physically.
well I think that the turning point was writing and the keeping of permenant records with squiggles.
This enabled some humans to mentally disconnect from their animal senses (what they can see and count as an indivudual) and to 'own and control land they had never visited'
This was the first sort of instance of a 'virtual' world.....where landowners in mesopotamia could own and sell land and fields and wheat and labour that their own animal senses had never encountered, that their animal emotions would never have to deal with......everything was reduced to a squiggle on a page.
This is impoortant as because although leaders might have previously ruled over a distant land they hadnt visited, there was human/animal interpretation/assesment of the ruler and that which was ruled. This meant for emotional interpretation. Which is what we are....animals.
Did I forget to mention that other great seperator from nature.....shoes that stop our feet from connecting with mother earth
they don't separate anyone from their environment in any meaningful sense unless you are grasping for some sort of symbolic re-interpretation. it is just a superficial thing
It would appear that you are unfamiliar with babies and their foot usage.......never seen a baby hold something with their foot.
Consider.....if you had loose soil and no tool how would you digging in the earth......climbing trees is easier in bare feet. We so seperate ourselves from quite a lot of our body.
I only wish we had tails as well
recently I have become an uncle and am enjoying seeing a lovely human animal that loves using feet and toes to grasp.....unfortunately we later imprison those lovely pnk toes in horrible stiff leather prisons and feet then become ugly
when i was a kid i could play piano with my toes
well, not really, cos i was too young to understand tonality, but i had independent use of each toe
women with unshaven armpits.
or not washing for a week.
Or wearing clothes several says running.
These are examples of modern consumerist created pressures, and unfortunately most of you trot along with it like pavlovian dogs...........bizarrely this means that you are actually behaving like animals, albeit to do things that seem non-animal.
This is precisely how humans are no longer the problem......human activity is not what humans want.....the system that has everyone in its grasp manipulates humans animal instincts wants (not always conciously manipulated.........capitalism itself became a kind of lifeform/rudimentary inteligence entity a while ago) I am not being stupid here........there used to be a game called the game of life......you would plot a shape on a grid, with rules for replication and extinction for each cell of the grid........some patterns died out.......some just 'wobbled' others lived and thrived for a bit then died.....a few would go on and on changing and growing.......some would create small 'babies which might move away.......this game was normally played by computer buffs (we're talking pre pc or internet obviously)
Anyway the point is you guys are always looking out for artificial intelligence in computers.....why do you assume that self replicating, reinforcing systems do not already exist.....ones that use biological entities to provide its structure?
Mammon is evil, because it serves it imediate self only. it cares not for us nor any other biological living thing, beyond what use thesy can give it.
strange question alcock
it was a rhetorical question
i was watching the news and they were talking about the effects of climate change on the natural world, and then on the human population, and i thought it were st00pid
nothing is absolute after all. I think it is an emotional question.
Ultimately we will never cease to be part of nature, as what we describe as nature (the fecund biological life systems that exists on a crust of boiling rock and metal. Is ultimately a child of other nature that we tend to regard as stale and cold, that of particals and astronomical bodies and forces we study in physics.
Every day it would help us all appreciate life more if we visualise the truth....
Actually try to picture the awsomeness of what is under your feet, how absolutely you belong to the earth, how all land and life and trees exist on a crust, how the first life did not rely on the sun but ate the earth itself (like a mother suckling its young).
blah blah blah, then feet trod this earth, then we end up with biros
what I was going to say was that even if present economic activity wiped out all surface life on the crust, it doesnt really matter as the mother of nature would still be alive and srill have rockeaters somewhere in her.
So we are still tied up with the crust nature.........although how many of us are aware exactly of the moment the sun rises and sets?