Your are viewing a read-only archive of the old DiS boards. Please hit the Community button above to engage with the DiS !
and whilst Robbo is usually all hot air, I could echo every last word.
Is poor. He advocates keeping lampard and gerrard together because there is no better option.
He is wrong, of course, because Downing is a better option.
But yes, Robbo's got it spot on.
He is awful.
He really isn't awful. You can guarantee that if he plays all the time he will assist 60/70% of England's goals. If he played for Arsenal he'd be playing every game for England.
I'd rather have Lee Cook of QPR. He's quality and if he was at a half decent team his quality would be recognised.
on TV a few years ago (did he play for Watford) and he did look really really good.Best player on the pitch by a long way. I'm surprised he's never even been looked at by a Premier League team.
for Watford and blossomed into a real talent. He won't be at QPR next season, I can imagine him being in the Premiership. I'm looking forward to seeing him on Saturday.
has said he would reject offers of less than 10 million for him...
I just think he is really lacking the necessary quality. We need Joe Cole on the left or yes Gareth Barry would be preferable.
I do think he's good enough. Sure he's not great at beating a man, but the amount of decent crosses he get's into the box more than makes up for this. He links up amazing with Andrew Taylor at the Boro and I can see him doing the same with Gareth barry. I seriously think them two together could work really well.
sticks loads of great balls into the box, shame all of QPR's strikers are crap...
but it's a bloody good summary of all that's wrong.
Its what we all can see, yet what McClaren is so blind to.
I'd give Venables a very wide berth. Overrated IMHO.
that is the one bad point he makes in the article.
he's got Andorra away on Wednesday rather than Russia or Croatia at home. If it gets to the stage where we fail to qualify then he has to go. If he get's us through then he has to go at the end of Euro 2008. The FA aren't going to sack him whilst we're still in it. Unfortunately.
I think pressure from the media will force him to leave.
and after that hopefully asap.
that he should be nowhere near the squad, what Phil Neville said after the game was interesting. About how certain senior players at Top 6 clubs weren't reproducing their club form and that 1 goal in 5 internationals with players who have the potential to score 15-20 goals a season is unnacceptable.
value their club teams more so are less willing to put in the effort when wearing the England shirt?
right, afterall they don't get £xx,xxx every time they pull on the 3 Lions. There can't be any doubt that certain players know that they're assured of playing the full 90 minutes no matter what. McClaren's refusal to take off Rooney or Lampard on Saturday proved that.
club = at least £40,000 a week.
What is the average appearance fee for England players?
I'm sure the squad value the people who pay them more than their country.
but I'd go for the one who doesn't hide for England. Gerrard is exactly like John Barnes before him - so good for his club that he has to be picked for his country, even though he is mostly a passenger fo the national side.
Gerrard does put the effort in. Even if he's having a bad game, he's trying to make things happen. Often he's probably trying too hard.
No-one has been reproducing their club form for England (with the possible and not entirely desirable exception of Robinson). If they all played like that every week they wouldn't get near the England squad. But they don't. So unless there's something about putting on a white shirt with 3 lions it, you've got to think that there's a possibility that the management is to blame.
The England manager only has 3 things to do (not necessarily in this order); pick players, pick formation/system, motivate players.
As far as I can tell McLaren is doing all three of those pretty poorly.
but players shouldn't need motivating to play for their country. They all talk of the honour of representing England, but very few of them actually show any kind of desire. Yes the manager has to do his bit (which I agree he's not) but a lot of it has to come from within. On Saturday I'd say Hargreaves, Gerrard, Carragher, Johnson and Lennon actually gave 100%. The rest of them pretty much ambled around treating the game as a pre season run out.
with the players seemingly caring about their club more then their country, is international football generally in decline?
I'd say it was in this country and Spain, there are still many smaller countries though where the players care.
there's been so many times where players aren't performing, yet are still not dropped from the squad.
It seems to be the players are picking the system, regardless of whether it works or not- why not play an actual left back there rather than Carragher. (who admittedly is a great centre back, but i'm sure there's players who could offer us more going forward)
The midfield is also a bit immobile, maybe try dropping Lampard for a game?
I think the players you mentioned played better than most (except hargreaves. He was involved a lot. and didn't give the ball away as much as he could have done.)
But I don't feel you can accuse Johnson or Rooney of not trying. They were ineffectual and isolated yes, but they had NO service. None.
Players shouldn't need motivating when they're earning x thousand a week but a good manager can and does make a huge difference there, and at international level.
his club teammates have a lot to do with how many goals he scores.
Rooney's record isn't spectacular when it comes to goalscoring. He's got more than 15 twice, and that's in all competitions.
Gerarrd only scored more than 15 in one season.
Johnson got 21 once but has since been relegated and has never proved himself internationally. (Not that I blame him, he's not really had much of a chance).
Lennon? haven't checked but basically no. Downing - no. Hargreaves - obviously not. Defoe - no.
So yeah, in actual fact we don't have anyone in the team at the moment who has consistently scored more than 15 goals a season besides Lampard, who everyone agrees should be dropped.
10-15 goals then ;)
It would be interesting to do the same for other international teams who are ranked similarly to England and see their players' goalscoring stats for their respective clubs.
I would be tempted to suggest that 10-15 goals a season for a striker playing for an internationaly team amongst the top 10-20 in the world isn't good enough.
But on the other hand, if Rooney is playing alongside a prolific goalscorer and creating then it's not a problem.
I dunno. I'm fed up with England.
when there were loads of English strikers banging in the goals. Some like Collymore and Andy Cole never got a look in!
unlock defences, he just doesn't for England.
he blew his chance though.
the way we keep humping the ball forward after 6 sideways passes rather than looking for the killer ball doesn't really help.
I'd like to us play more into Rooney's feet rather than expecting him to win header's against towering centre halves all the time.
I think he's good enough.
he's looked very good for Blackburn this season.
And he was brilliant in the U21 game the other day. He could bring something to the team that no one else seems to have - pace, the ability to beat a man and a good finish.
Aaron Lennon has these to an extent I'm just not sure if he's good enough.
if he was played on the right.
It was ridiculous that he was taken off for Downing when he should have been moved over to the right and Lampard should've made way.
He would have destroyed Isreal down the right wing.
I despair at that sort of decision. Lennon was the only player on the pitch making any sort of impact and he was playing out of position. It was glaringly obvious that that's what should have happened.
That's what all Tottenham fans have said.
McClaren's a cock though.
Square pegs, round holes. All that bollocks.
on the right, so he can, if he wants, get into the box and cross, and he can be so much more effective. Especially against such deep defending.
He's also not 20 for a couple of weeks, if over the next 2 or so years he keeps his pace and improves his final ball (particularly with his left foot if he is gonna keep getting stuck on the left) then he'll be frightening.
any serious injury of course! especially ones which might damage his pace.
that it's all very well saying that morinho or fergie would have dropped lamps and stevie g ages ago but being international manager's something entirely different. when fergie wanted to drop ruud he had saha waiting in the wings; sell beckham and he could bring in ronaldo. Drop lampard and carrick's the only real replacement, and he's a totally different player. The options are so limited as an England manager that you have to get the best out of the few players you do have, which is where the problem lies I think. Like, Southgate said that at half time in the '02 quarter final with Brazil, they needed Winston Churchill and got Iain Duncan Smith. I can't imagine McClaren being any more inspiring.
You make good points.
have been appointed. A Yes man, an assistant. Out of his depth at Middlesbrough, yet alone England. Part of me wants a draw on Wednesday so McClaren can be got rid of. What was he thinking on Saturday? "Lennon, yeah he's pacy. Yeah that'll unsettle em. I'll play him on the left, out of position." Team for Wednesday should be. Foster; Richards, Carragher, Terry, Barry; Downing, Hargreaves, Parker, Lennon; Defoe, Johnson. Lampard's another Beckham - a self-interested little poseur not prepared to do the hard yards. Gerrard I just think is knackered. Drop a few big names and send out a team that should be good enough to get a win - players that want the chance to represent their country. McClaren should have subbed Lampard and Gerrard at half time on Saturday. And Ferdinand is the most over-rated player in history.....
Ferdinand is quality. Seriously. I watch him every week at Utd. He just needs a bizarre autocrat like Fergie to whip him into shape. When a player does bad under McClaren he clearly gives them a fiver and a handjob and tells them to be on their way. When what they really need is a boot in the face (ala Beckham) to remind them that they're overpaid clowns, albeit talented.
They'd probably do ok against Andorra but they'd still be shit.
Why drop Robinson now?
Ferdinand was fine on Saturday. He's never done anything to deserve getting dropped.
Parker? Just no.
Barry and Downing on the left could be good simply because they've got left feet or could fail spectacularly because they're just not that good.
as an example to the rest.
Right, there's a shit team and if I need to pick 11 players to beat them I'll pick the ones who can do the job because theyre hungry.
The problem right now is that because McLaren wont drop any of the stars (no matter how shit theyre performing) they dont feel the need to perform. The result is that the rare occasions someone else gets a look in, they look out of place and nervous because they arent used to the level of performance and are scared stiff about letting anyone down.
I didnt say my XI was anything special - I just think it's good enough to do a job agaisnt a team whose GOALKEEPER IS A PUB LANDLORD!!!!
and if England don't qualify for 2008 it'll cost them £100m.
By the guy on Radio Five Live at the moment. Says it's insulting that McClaren laughed off the suggestions that he should be sacked. Suggestions that are coming from many journalists and many, many fans...
"don't be ridiculous" laugh.
from McClaren on teletext this morning about how the players do care and are passionate about playing for England. If I were him I'd come out and say the complete opposite. Question whether the players I've sent out do care enough about pulling on an England shirt. Say that I was going to change the team around, shake things up a bit. He seems to have convinced himself that Saturday's performance was good enough and that we were just 'unlucky' to lose. It comes to something when even someone like Chris Hollins is taking the mick out of his press conferences on Breakfast.