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i don't know.
rule the mind...
Of course, there are brighter sides to life. And I should know, because I've seen them, but not very often.
I need the toilet. body> mind
is your mind telling your body to tell your mind that?
i can feel bodily that i need the toilet.
surely your mind has processed your body to react to the need to use the toilet in that bodily way.
You don't even know what you're saying and you call me silly!
is a silly notion.
It's not a very productive concept to build society around but I like it.
and where/at what point do the mind and body therefore interact. assuming the mind as something immaterial, how can something immaterial affect something material?
For a start it depends on the existence of the mind as a non-physical entity which isn't something I have much belief in. But I have a strong belief in there being significant limitations in human perception. I think ultimately we are alone in our thoughts and the physical thigns we experience just supplement the experience of the mind.
then, you refer to the brain? I don't want to argue against you. Mostly because I don't support Dawkins, or Ryle as he described talk of mind as 'talk of ghost in the machine'.
I mean human perception basically.
not that of the human race generally.
Mind over body.
The second one. I resisted the almost uncontrollable urge to punch an old woman who started smoking next to me at the bus stop.
your mind is just your brain, which is your body. so its body rules the body.
Anyone who says we have a conciousness or a "soul" is wrong.
as 'the mind'. a person's mind is something their body invents to help them function and process information. next you'll be telling me there's a 'self' or a 'conscience' or a 'soul'.
right, the body mind distinction, is not dissimilar to the body/soul one. silly.
I think I might still be ill.
but without my brain/mind to register this they would not be sore, without my vocal constructs I would not be able to describe them as 'sore' and I would not be able to process the information and be able to go and get a chapstick.
Yes it is both right and wrong to say the mind does not exist it is only part of the body.
However It is part of human thinking/education whatever that we likw
e to draw lines, to divide, to classify
so it seems perfectly ok that we should define betwen the mind and the body, often we talk about the mind yet refer also to the corporal brain, perhaps 'mind' should involve learnt responses (non instinctual responses) and abstract thought.
Unlike most of you guys I do kind of think that people do have a soul, mostly it is what I percieve about beings that I cant really fit into the catagory of body, or mind.
Does this make me ill?
your lips aren't actually sore - they have been damaged and the discomfort is no more than a signal to remind you to do something about it, or to not let it happen again. There is no such thing as hunger, thirst, aches etc, they're all just your body's ways to instill in you behaviour that protects and maintains it.
Your 'mind', in my view, is what makes you think about what the best Beatles album is and who you want to have a chat to etc.
Or something like that, I haven't fully established my opinions at this point.
you are right about the soreness though, the 'soreness' is purely a construct of my mind, that interprets certain electrical impulses.
However my body does not run on electrical impulses alone it also runs on chai
I need at least 8 cuppas a day to funcion properly
we can't get away from the mind-body problem.
To replace "mind" with "brain" is to start talking about the mechanics of how the body works. Is something different. To assume you're talking about the brain, and then say "there's only a material body" is just tautology, as far as im concerned.
The relationship between brain and mind hasnt really been explained yet. Neuroscience might provide an answer one day, but not for a very long time.
the whole question is just a mess of metaphor on top of metaphor, which it's the mind as a computer or a freudian categorisation... i wish more people took a scientific approach to this question.
at the end.
I just meant that when most people refferred to the two 'mind and body' they use it because it is a useful catagorisation technique at the 'normal' human conversation level, it fails when we become scientific or more philosophical, but people are not 'wrong' to use commonly discussed concepts.
One aspect of the physical brain is that the more you use one pattern of thought (the more impulses it carries) the then the neurons on that path increase, thus making that path more likely/easier to follow, ' an neural network/computer, so what you think does in some whay create the acusal pohysical build of the brain (to some extent)
I have tried many experiments myself to try to understand this process within my own mind to varying degrees of sucess.
I used to run backups in the evening for computer systems, a largely boring period.
I took advantage of this to play with my brains abilties.
I had previously attempted to draw things with limited success, others might praise my stuff slightly, yet I knew that my art was merely intense concentration and attention to detail, there was no/little beauty in what I produced.
yet knew that I could percieve something that I thought was beautiful.
I sat down with a pencil and looked at pictures of people in a paper, I worked very hard to not have preconceptions, and had to kind of meditate, I removed a lot of thoughts and tried to view the people as to what their personalities were like, I didnt try to draw them exactly but tried to draw them where they weren't.
Hey presto loads of really good (even though I say so myself pictures of people) (I could never ever draw people before) The portraits were recognisably those in the papers yet with added expression, you know when people are having a photo taken they put on a kind of face, that contains no expression, Id kind of sussed what their mood was behind that so one (company MD) was really really angry, someone really hungry (for something)
All the wqomen I drew looked really beautiful (I could never do this before) It was like these were pictures that a real artist had done.
I found I could also draw people without pictures to copy.
The revelation was not that I could draw, but that I had gone inside my mind and deliberately chosen to think a different route (removing blockages) I had chosen to think differently and gone down a different set of neural links (probably).
I manage the same thing with juggling, and to being able to spot which note comes next on a keyboard for a tune (I was never a musician and cannot read music) Of course there are aspects that cannot be controlled this way, my fingers are not nimble enough to be a good pianist and I should let my son be good at that.
The point is that many people have blockages that stop them from doing something they sometimes really want, they often think that others have a natural gift for something......well maybe to a certain extent, however the most of these people are just using the wrong neural paths, one that take you to the wrong destinations, end up in blockages/ or end up going round in pointless circles, by using meditation to go into yourself and try to do something differently is often the answer.
Natural Artists musicians/mathematicians are probably just always used a more correct path, so they have reinforced it and it is second nature, but these paths could be built up in lots more people.
Sorry woffled too much there.
and body/brain are the same things. Category error or whatever,can't even be bothered to get into it....everything is physical, the sooner people realise this the closer we will all be to each other... I think me and brainlove had the exact same discussion about this a few months ago on a similar such thread...great times!!
nebulous things such as 'nationhood' (just randomly plucked there)?
Are you saying that when I entertain that concept and muse on it it has become part of my body?
the notes are indeed physical, outside my body, and they make my eardrum vibrate and they send electrical impulses, however they sometimes form nice patterns, are you saying that the appreciation of these notes 'order and pattern' are physical, because I have learnt to like certain patterns and that has affected my brains construct?
then the brain could be restarted, no matter how long ago a person has died.
Which is interesting
you've got it. Nationhood can be traced back to something physical. No reason why appreciation of music can't be a chemical reaction or something. Anyway the point is more that there the idea of something existing that is non physical is nonsensical, even an abstract notion of the perfect circle or whatever in my head can be traced back to neurones and whatnot. I'm too ill to talk about this today though sorry. Go read some Daniel Dennett!!!!
Love Dan Dennett. Regarding this subject though I do find it really strange how most people are unable to think properly about it and give up the notion that there is anything like a non-physical soul/substance floating around inside of them. Its as if everyone is stuck in the dark ages.
and I do seem to already, subscribe to all these ideas.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neural_Darwinism is a theory he agrees with, and in actual fact my post ^^ about learning how to draw is a demonstration of this principle.....not a proof as such but an instance of something that could be explained by neural darwinism, and not explained by many other mechanisms.
I do have other examples, but there is also an element where the subtleties of the mechanism can be envisaged and backed up by my self study but unfortunately they are too subtle/involved to explain in language, let alone a internet forum thread
we descend into a flurry of Freudian theory? The Id or the Ego, who knows?