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interesting stuff. or perhaps not.
I'm in the top 3.57%.
i'd be so low down if this was based just on DiS users.
and thats what counts.
Unless you want to buy things
i'm not rich in spirit. we've discussed this.
You em, make a decent poached egg?
why do you earn so much more than me?
what do you actually do?
between the 1st and 2nd sentence. not an insult, marra
in my own way.
I'm a test and script buisness analyst.
It's about as interesting as it sounds.
I do have a diploma in music technology though.
i'm a cunt-sultant for a politician, like. i read loads of shite and write speeches n stuff.
I'm done talking about my job.
you could be me
I just dislike my job like most people
But do student loans count as additional income to wages?
I'm in the top 1.42%
25G a year
that's not very indie you corporate scum!
but then I pay £4k on a train ticket so when you take that off I drop to about 3.5%, which is well indie
on travelling to work .... go on ... guess
my trainers cost a tenner and my mum bought me my proper work shoes. i live 3 minutes walk from the office.
this is called being a god.
if so, I win.
I win. You don't understand the rules.
well, £4,224 to be exact.
It gets me from Southampton to London for a whole year, and i can play on the underground to my hearts content too.
i mean, what?
and that's where my friends are
this is a joke right?
i don't know how having friends would affect my own judgements.
I've moved house twice while I've been working in london, and could have easily moved there. But I don't want to. I prefer the atmosphere in Southampton, i genuinely love the place. I'm happy enough to have London as somewhere to go occasionally (as in go out there)
to this so far
I art more prolier than thou
I don't feel it. But I am rich in other ways
these figures don't account for purchasing power parity. of course.
but does it count london weighting? Well?
these figures don't account for purchasing power parity. of course.
JacobJones | 15 Nov '06, 16:41 | Send note | Reply
Now, considering I only work 14 hours a week in a part-time job, I reckon this is quite good.
for just the winter months
And I was still in the top 20.
Given how much work I actually do this is a big surprise.
there's a bug in that program
enter £1 in the amount box
seeing as i'm only the 107,565 richest in the world with my income of 1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000100000000000000000
i am in the top 0.001% richest people in the world tho
an amount for it to estimate?
work if you go below 50
I'm not going to tell you where I am, otherwise everyone in the pub tonight will expect me to buy the drinks...
I'm in the top 15%
That's pretty screwed up...
That's a really good site
$8 could buy you 15 organic apples OR 25 fruit trees for farmers in Honduras to grow and sell fruit at their local market.
$30 could buy you an ER DVD Boxset OR a First Aid kit for a village in Haiti.
$73 could buy you a new mobile phone OR a new mobile health clinic to care for AIDS orphans in Uganda.
$2400 could buy you a second generation High Definition TV OR schooling for an entire generation of school children in an Angolan village.
All well and good. But I don't live in Angola, I live in London. And I have outgoing expenses that render generocity at best, foolish. $900 could pay my rent for a month.
top 0.99%. though that is before tax and including estimated bonuses. still, it shuts my whinging up.
I do a paper round...
i'm at 8.55%, it's an interesting way of saying "how much are you on?"
Which is bollocks, considering I have £12.47 to my name, not including the thousands of pounds of debt.
once you move to Stavanger
Ha ha! Indeed... still hope to go there, though. Fuck money.
Some people are just a lot poorer than you. I work in a temporary job that is ending next week, if I got that as an annual income I would be in the top 11.57% in the world.
income i'm a student with no job :(
in fact i'm the 666,369,423 richest person in the work
in your face people who told me working in the library was a rubbish job!
Many peoples lives could be happier if you donated just one hour's salary (approx $1.96 - UK estimate).
is that just for me or does that website reckon UK workers earn about £1 an hour?!
dependant on the amount you entered at the top ;)
how poor i am.
consider donating me some money.
poorer. i have £2.33 in my bank account.
estimate. it gave the same result for my dad. he's on 115k and couldn't afford to send me to private school which suggests your dad earns more
between them and sent both my sister and I to private school...?!
0.77% I apparently am loaded.. that's not counting 4 student loans, 2 post grad loans and a massive mortgage tho so don't be asking me for any beers :p
I didn't do a post grad, I hate academic study. You get post grad lones post graduating from your degree..
generic debt then ...
and i'm still a poor bitch.
I can only hang around here from now on if you address me as Lord Judge of Judgeshire
mine didn't either. and yet it served massive slices of pizza in bags and chip buttys for 80p or something.
than there is of them. if only we could organise ...
it would have been better not to have encouraged impovrished countries to engage in the western economic/model/system and allow much fertile land to be used to supply western consumer demands??????? huh???? huh????HUH??????
A bit late know I know, most world leaders are now 'engaged'
A few decades ago most of the arms trade or at least the machine tools neccessary to support 3rd world depended on a very few countries us uk france russia (and other european countries following the lead) china made cheap rough copies of russian stuff.....AK47's and AKMs were actually designs well suited to rough sturdy production so these were sort of exceptions.......I accept that now to most of you lot, the view you have is that arms nowadays can be manufactured almost anywhere and that the west + russia + china are not culpable for the state we are in, but you would be wrong the above 3 have been responsible for putting us in this state and they did this for their own ends, any aid to any impoverished state in state of strife now requires armed intervention.
The ONLY way to sort things out is for western democracies to realise the true situation.....STOP bollocksing on sentimentally, and consyumeristly, STOP being pettily competative and start to regard excess wealth as antisocial/selfish, then when we are honest and talk straight then we can start to engage the rest of the world and try to sort messes out.
This site maybe only helps to start to encourage the rest of the unconvinced majority that something needs to change.
There is no point in you guys looking at this site.....This should ideally be aimed at Daily Mail readers.....try to get this url printed in the daily mail or telegraph.......disappointingly half of those would still actually feel chuffed by the result
beginning of this thread
is not exclusively western. it's something very central to our human nature.
and what would you suggest replacing it with? most alternative models have tended to fail pretty disastrously.
agree with you on the arms trade, though.
forces us to make decisions then we should come up with some better alternatives, I cant do it on my own....Capitalist supporters need to come round and start working towards alternatives......when you say fail pretty disastrously I guess that you mean from the top %10 of earners (see first URL) point of view, I somehow feel that a very large number of the planets population do not quite see it this way, the percentage/fraction of the world that is not seeing it this way is probably growing....I would imagine
isn't a system, it's a reality you have to work with.
"when you say fail pretty disastrously I guess that you mean from the top %10 of earners"
no, i'm talking about the soviet union. or north korea. or china. etc
is a reality that has to be worked with.....or cars are realitys that have to be dealt with......doesnt mean they have to be accepted or praised or that solutions or alternatives sought. it is the fact that your arguments seem to want to say that it is wrong to question it, that it is wrong to want to modify it......this is noit a personal creed of mine....more a warning because that attitude is what is propelling the earth towards its (now accepted) major 'irreconcilable'? problems
capitalism just as i have no praise for mortality or bad weather. the world would be a better place if people didn't respond to incentives and could naturally behave altruistically. but they don't.
yes it will involve some tinkering with an evolved system.
You are wrong to think it is central to all human nature, it is central to human nature in response to the conditions that exist....that is true.......then again it is a natural response of human nature to die when certain diseases are caught (unless artificial intervention occurs in the form of vaciines whatever)
Capitalism has grown/evolved due to sets of circumstances/responses to events and alternatives available at particular crunch/decision times, the shapers of capitalism have taken place over a perios of time that exceeds humans lifespan.
Humans therefore have a natural response to this..
Here is an alagorical example to try to change your mind
If I were a brutal dictator I could get everyone (Through fear to obey me.....If anyone rocked the boat, I could hurt people severely, I could also try to ensure that if I were killed or harmed then most people would be killed (I know the code that stops the detonation of automated dirty nukes and bacteriologicals and that code needs to be entered (lost style) every 24 hours) PS I have a cyanide capsule embedded in my filling so dont try to force the info out of me.
Now it would be natural for humans to continue with this system, because it is natural to not want the consequences, fear is a natural human response.......would you not want to change this natural system?
Sorry that is crude, but I am really frustragted that you imagine that the form of capitalism we have reflects exactly what 'free' humans would want.....it is what humans have come to accept as the best we can have lest awfulness occurs......welll awfullness will come and the longer heads are stuck in the sand the worse it will be.
I am not cross at you JJ merely the things education has done to you and many others
that is irelevant, cos you passed your exams the belief in your own wisdom, the self justification that the 'hoop jumping' of passing exams does is what I am annoyed at.
IF a SYSTEM IS WRONG then the praise that the system gives, the appraisals it gives, the exams it gives, and the education it gives will be wrong in some important ways too.
Therefor for you to try to counter my objection to a systems validity, by use of facts given to you by that system is null and void.
system we are locked into, that choices of different paths have become more and more limited (the runaway train has got faster and this makes more difficult to switch tracks or jump off) That we are heading towards a series of cliffs (like homer falling of precipaces in the simpsons, theres always one more than he expects)
That I know ways of humans living (fulfilled) that will avoid these precipaces.
What I dont know is how to switch the track.....I know the track we have to be on.
Whatever the process, I also know that there will be many who are not fulfilled by this change because they will have temporarily more importance power and wealth on the present track and they have got used to this (this is not sustaonable though and their descendants (and others) will be doomed to horror if the track is not switched
However the track at present is already very unpleasent for many more, than the minority that hold the powere and obviously do not wish to give it up, because they think what would be the point.....the defenders of capitalism (unchanged) are always saying that the world cannot work on any other track.
and many will see their lot decrease although when I say many this will not actually be many in the global scheme of things, and overall the amount they loose will be nothing to the big precipaces the present track is taking us towards
necessaary to actually change the track....I am also scared, I have kids, I would like to be an ordinary dad, unfortunately the more people just keep adopting the same mantra of '2% growth blah blah blah' I feel like I have to do something cos obviously the system is a moron.....I mean I though economics was n=meant to be a science.....Its become bleeding dogmatic...you have friggin bibles for gods sake you have prophets who you all feel youve got to quote or else whatever you say cant be right or be believed by anyone else......Its not written in the sky that gods name is Jahweh, similarly it is not written in the sky that the optimum rate of growth for a a national economy to promote benefical future for people is 2%'
These things are written in books by humans, who may have been acting on the best knowledge at the time.....
BUT THINGS CHANGE....to keep refering to archaeic models when humans have gained a whoile new area of knowledge is flying in the face of reason
if you removed all externally enforced conditions people behave in the most primitive and capitalist fashion.
for that reason the debate shouldn't be about the merits and demerits of capitalism but about what regulations and constraints we can place upon this ineluctable condition to protect people from capitalism's worst excesses.
i wouldn't mind living in a Marxist utopia if a) it could be constructed without resort to tyranny and b) it could actually function
"it is central to human nature in response to the conditions that exist"
Contradiction in terms OTD?
Though I'm kind of against the principle of human nature I kind of agree with you JJ - people are never going to behave in an altruistic way. The whole idea is nonsense.
The idea that Marx and Weber had that capitalism is some kind of post-1500 invention is ridiculous. People compete in order to get ahead. My undergraduate dissertation was about the luxury economy in Europe 20-30,000 years ago. You can see the roots of it back then, and earlier.
But there's capitalism in its most basic sense - an acquisitive/competitive tendency - the desire to distinguish oneself and get ahead of the pack, and then there's global capitalism/neoliberal triumphalism. Which I guess is sort of what you're saying, but I think we need to make the distinction clearly. The kind of capitalist fundamentalism that goes on nowadays - the constant attempt by business and the governments that collude with them to legitimise the acquisition of wealth as an end in itself - is the problem we have to address.
Im not envisiging an improvement to the present system....any change will be horrible.....however the longer this is followed with out major major change the options will dwindle further and the human race will then face major cataclysms with almost no options, things will descend uncontrollable into nastyness
you offer a very bleak vision, bleaker than mine you see I do love human nature I think its great I think adversity and training emphasises the acquisitative/competative nature of humans, those elements are there originally for a purpose.....to provide continuation of the best genes for survival when there is not enough......techknowlegy has provised for all of these we could have had enough food we could have horded had supplies from excess to remove us from the fear of future want, we could have had security, but we have always been kept in a state of emergency....
Often terrible examples of individuals come to spoil movements of change of system of rule, which is why I would like to see the chnge being done democratically, not by means of a revolution/collapse, because that way the change can be managed and steered (not dogma created on one 'glorious'day) by an educated, enlightened democracy....that would be my dream.....unfortunately we are not an educated enlightnened democracy are we?
Yours and JJS words are starting to break my dream......your right you know....we arnt enlightened are we , we are a nation of petty minded selfish bestial greedy bums, we already have enough, but cos we're scared about our future and weve been taugfht that saving does not work then we still want more, you are right we are only ever not ripping each others food off each other because of rules, if they werent there then humans would be bad.......
Tell me do you guys believe in God and the Devil?
we never did anything good. everything we do is selfish, foolish altruistic dreamers are just doing it for their own inner deluded worth.
its cos of the nature of your posts chiaroscuro.....I argue against a particular tack and then you arrive as fresh reenforcements on a completely different tack and when my fingers afre knackered.
I do not know about Marx or Weber , but according to Max and Paddy
'Yes humans are competative as are all animals, however many human systems of human governance hve emphasised this and accelerate this, beczause in addition to human needs/survival they also encourage humans to work for the needs/survival of institutions and artificial entites and structures, this grew due to necessity, I am well aware of the history of warfare, I used to do an awful lot of wargaming from many periods of time, I will not go into it here cos that would make it even longer, anyway the point is is that mostly we should be 'not frightened of our neighbours anymore, we intervene round the world and keep the jeopardy to our state simmering by intervening so 'visibly badly'. I am unaware at any point that the systems of control that we have attempt to lessen percieved international jeopardy. This will need to change if the world is to be saved.
Governments have never wanted their subjects humans to stockpile/save (unless there are other fears) when there is nothing wlse to worry about////otherwise they would not be as vital/would not be able to extract so much resource from us.......ruling techniques have evolved too....some of these have been paseed down refined through dictatorships/monarchies/fundamentalists/communists/democracies one is maintaining the idea of national jeopardy....if there is no national jeopardy at any one moment then the possiblility of future national jeopardy is focused on.
Of course my easiest way of arguing would simply to ask you guys.
OK so what went wrong? huh? Western Democracy has fantastic techknowlodgy, had unprecedented distance death/destruction dealing ability, dominance of world trade.
Why is the world heading for increased armed unrest, increased fear and loathing, decreased personal financial security, increased water shortages, increased food shortages, increased unsustainable population, increased climate change, increased pollution and further increases in the causes of climate change, increase in the relative wealth of haves/havenots, all this despite the spread/increase of education and liberal ideas too what a shame.....still If I suggest that the system that allows this all to take place is perhaps not the best idea, then I am decried as being unrealistic.
Sorry Im getting emotional and not fitting in with conventional logical discussion guys but that hasnt worked.....yes it is difficult for me to argue coherently to prove to you because I am proposing something different to that which has given you all the nicely worked out patter, whichj makes my ramblings look foolish....But id like either of you two to defend your criticism of what I say, in light of what I said at the beginning of this post