Your are viewing a read-only archive of the old DiS boards. Please hit the Community button above to engage with the DiS !
Frasier is number 2.
Then you can start talking about British comedy.
Frasier was quite good for a while.
The best comedy based on situations is Spaced.
My top 2 would be Father Ted and the Fall and Rise of Reggie Perrin. But what do I know?
But now we've established that Frasier and Seinfeld are 1 and 2... or 2 and 1... what would be the top British sitcom? I've been in many minds about this since about a month ago when I watched Fawlty Towers and realised it was idiotic and racist.
Black Books and Father Ted OWN Fawlty Towers.
The racism question presumably relates to Manuel, right? If so I can see your point.
Honestly "Father Ted" makes me laugh out loud more than any other British sitcom. I enjoy "Peep Show", "Spaced" and various other British sit-coms and you could argue others are cleverer but if it's simply a question of which sit-com makes me laugh the most when I watch it I have to stick with Father Ted.
It's very clearly about how terrible Fawlty is.
but I still see how Stealthy could interpert it differently.
You might have a point if Manuel himself wasn't depicted as a filthy dago with the brainpower of a small child or lower primate...
the 'dago' comments only made by Fawlty (the foolish imbecile character)?
And I suppose Seinfeld has never offended any minorities?
Oh come on - you've seen Curb, you know what kind of humour that must have been. Racist my entire arse.
You might, but you'd be hella wrong. Unless there is some kind of ironic way you can depict Portuguese folks as intellectually sub-normal...
Sorry. "...Azerbajiani people as intellectually sub-normal".
see Manuel as a representative of the entire Spanish poulation. He's not even presented as one is he?
Sure, characters and he himself refer to him as being Spanish all the time. That and the fact it was made in the 70s. Rubbed me up the wrong way.
Yes. John Cleese is a racist. He eats babies. He pushed a granny into the path of a bus. He signed James Blunt. He got drunk and made anti-semetic remarks during a funeral. He was on the grassy knoll. He kidnapped Shergar.
What would it prove if I actually did think John Cleese was a racist?
I suppose it does help your argument to characterise me as someone who "looks" for racism in sitcoms.
You're right. There's no precedent for Spaniards being portrayed as incompetent buffoons in British popular culture. What was I thinking?
I think "folks" has a condescending air to it.
I'm playing devil's advocate here. I just find it odd that you can excuse alleged racism that American Puerto Ricans felt moved to protest against, but feel that a character like Manuel is offensive enough to render Fawlty Towers a "racist" programme.
I think that very stupid people might see Manuel as indicative of Spanish people as a whole (as mocked in the characters that do constantly refer to his nationality), but I don't think the character is any more racist than the portrayal of Babu Bhatt in Seinfeld.
Are you of the opinion that programmes like "Til Death Us Do Part" are also racist? I tend to see the stupidity of racism being highlighted in characters such as Fawlty and Alf Garnett. I don't think Seinfeld makes this apparent in the same way.
Honestly, I was originally going to write Spanish, but then I thought 'no, wasn't it a gag on the show that they thought he was Spanish, but he was actually Portuguese?', but I couldn't remember and just took a wild guess.
"Folks" is merely the Anglo Saxon form of the Latin "People". There's nothing patronising about its use.
The difference between Babu in Seinfeld and Manuel is that while Manuel was portrayed and mocked by other characters as an idiot - Babu was merely a man with an accent - whom I might add all the characters liked and treated well. Concerning Alf Garnet - his character being racist doesn't make the show racist. And I would have thought it was well known that the writers of that show saw Garnet as something to be mocked rather than sympathised with.
I forgot to mention: Scrubs is now Number 3. British sitcoms are now fighting for the number 4 spot.
And Seinfeld is responsible for several instances of this. What I'm saying is that I see stereotyping in both shows.
I think that Babu was portrayed in an undeniably patronising manner. He was a naieve fool and behaved in an exaggerated, stereotypical manner (much like Manuel). However, while Seinfeld's attitude seemed to smack of American superiority, Fawlty's was just idiotic.
What was foolish about Babu?
No I don't. He bought a restaurant, took a bad suggestion from Jerry, it failed.
Then he got a job at the cafe, there was a mix-up with his papers and he got deported.
And he had an accent.
What's foolish about that? Unless you're equating foolishness with being foreign...
Given the actor, the cast and the audience view him as one of the show's best side characters I would venture that yeah, he is positive. As for whether he's biased or unbiased... well, I won't pretend to know what you mean by that.
Babu is a ridiculously exaggerated caricature. If you can't see that, well then you can't be very perceptive.
In any case, the point I was going to make is that a show like Seinfeld mocks all groups and 'takes no prisoners'. It doesn't make fun of particular groups or individuals, it makes fun of every group and individual it encounters - the stereotype is a joke in itself. I think that Fawlty Towers is similar in this respect. All of the characters are ridiculous and flawed. Given this , I can't understand why you would find the Manuel character unaceptable and believe it to be racist.
is far from racist i think, thats just stupid
even come up?
"How can I be racist, if I LIKE their race?!"
"Should we be talking about this?"
Seinfeld is meta-the possibility of it being racist. It is beyond that sort of shit.
I suggest you cease and go down and read my selection of snippets of scripts instead. MUCH more worthwhile.
George: "I don't think I even have any black friends."
Jerry: "Outside of us you don't have any white friends either."
Although it does employ racial stereotypes. I just don't see how one can condemn one kind of racial stereotyping while positively encouraging another.
i respected you!
is a million times better and arrested development is twice as good as that!
i agree with gay4.
black books peep show spaced
Although I fucking love the Seinfeld episode where they have to stop masturbating.
If we're talking British, it's got to be Spaced and Fawlty Towers though.
Dude, once I was like you - I viewed Seinfeld as I veiwed most American sitcoms: Bland, inoffensive and only broadly funny at best. Then I watched Curb Your Enthusiasm and I said to myself "Larry David wrote Seinfeld? How can it be crap?". On a whim, I bought a DVD. Then I bought all the DVDs. Putting aside the directorial flourishes of which Spaced should be rightfully aimed, all the aspects of life as a slacker, all the terminology, references to cult TV programs and all were done by Seinfeld a full 3/4 of a decade before Spaced was even born - "King of the Castle", "Regifting", "In The Vault", "Newman!" - the list goes on. Seinfeld is superior comedy and in George Costanza boasts the all time most fully realised character of any situation comedy, none other comes close.
NOW GO WATCH THE PHIL SILVERS SHOW, YOU HEATHEN.
I'm not going to sit here and write down a diatribe about how I like Spaced more than Sienfeld- I love them both- but I do, and nothing is going to change that. I'm not even claiming Spaced is original- the clear mark of a great sitcom is that it's funny as fuck, and Spaced is just that.
Don't get me wrong either, dude - I think Spaced is hilarious.
it's all about how all the characters are basically repulsive people :D
Frasier top 10
Phil Silver Show still number 1.
that is all.
That is all.
Okay, for the purposes of this debate - I am treating Seinfeld and Curb as one package - The George Costanza Show, as it were. Don't make me choose between them. Please.
Green Wing is about as funny as Russell Brand, who is himself - as I have said on occasion - about as funny as cot death.
Why has ITV always been shit at sitcoms? The only one remotely worth its salt was 'Rising Damp'.
that was brilliant
You're so wrong! Babes In The Wood? Hardware! The list stops there!
since it was on tv... and i was about 15 or something. possibly a lot of it went over my head.
as i said in the other thread, seinfeld is the best sitcom ever, especially for consistency, CYE is good but doesnt offer as many laughs, its still good writing but the characters in seinfeld make it better
apart from when she dances
is that because you're all too scared of being ridiculed?
Friends is much better than Seinfeld, Curb Your Enthusiasm, and Frasier and almost anything else you care to mention.
this post does NOT contain sarcasm.
Friends is good
it was not good, at all.
A LOT LOT worse than I ever remember it being. It was a newish episode however.
at times it was very bad (mostly when they had 4 hollywood cameos in every episode). But it's still one of the best sitcoms since (sliced) Bread.
Stealthy is getting UPSET! I don't care what you're saying - this IS sarcasm.
I thought Friends was bad. Then I saw Seinfeld and saw was Friends was trying to be. That just made it worse.
It rewards you for watching it over long periods with in-jokes and references to earlier series, which keeps things interesting.
I don't think I could pick an all-time best comedy though.
but loses points for Jerry being annoying and having slapbass in the credits.
The slapbass. And electronic drums too- v annoying.
if it was by The Knife, you lot'd love it!
What of it? Can't a man have an alter-ego any more?
is the Norm Show featuring Norm Macdonald. I see they've started showing it on ITV4 of late too.
I love Seinfield as well though.
'my prerogative' fits in to it perfectly. the joy.
you clearly haven't seen 8 SIMPLE RULES.
Arrested Development number three for the chicken impressions and the incest.
has the woman who voices leela in futurama.
"George: It's coming Jerry, it's coming.
Jerry: What's coming?
George: The Day..
Jerry: Ahhh...The Day..
George: We ordered the wedding invitations today,, Nothing can stop it now. Nothing. It's here! It's
happening. Can I do this? I can't do this...Look at me. Look at me I can't do this, I can't do this (manic)
Help me Jerry , help me.
Jerry: why don't you just break it off with her. tell her it's over
George: I can't
Jerry: Why not?
George; 'Cause I can't face that scene. You know what kind of scene that would be? i'd rather be unhappy
for the rest of my life than go through something like that. (forceful) I CAN'T, I CAN'T.
I tried to psyche myself up a million times I cannot go through that.
Jerry: All right take it easy, just take it easy.
George: What about a letter?
Jerry: A letter.
George: I...I...write a letter and then I..I go to China. I disappear in a sea of people for like
six months, a year you know just while things simmer down. Ehm.. Ehm...Dear Susan. I'm sorry.
I made a terrible mistake. I'm really , really sorry.
Jerry: That's it?
George: What? Too short?
Both: Seems a little short, yeah..
Jerry: You can't go to China What about your job?
George: My Job..arghhh
Jerry: So write a letter.. move to another...move to Staten Island., 'lot easier to blend in a sea of people in
Staten Island than China believe me.
George: Yeah! Yeah!..Staten Island . What about my clothes ,how do I get the rest of the clothes?
Jerry: Aagh! You come back for your clothes
George: I'm not going back in there.
Jerry: So forget about your clothes.
George: Well I'm not starting up a whole new wardrobe now!!!
Jerry; Look, freedom with no clothes is a lot better than no freedom with clothes.
George: If she'd just take a plane somewhere.
Jerry: And what, hope for a crash?
George: It happens.
Jerry: You know what the odds are on a crash it's a million to one.
George: It's something . It's hope!"
All right. Let me just say one thing: there is no way that this is goin'
to happen. No Way! Because if you think I'm going' to two Thanksgivings,
you're out of your minds!!!
[calmly] We're not getting divorced.
You mother changed her mind.. [tries to catch a fly with his hand]
[glee!] Ya-De! That's Goood! That's Very good! I'm very glad to hear
Yeah. We worked it out.
All right. So let me ask you a question. Who was the man in the cape?
He was my lawyer.
You lawyer wears a cape..?
Yeah. So what?
Who wears a cape?
He's very independent; doesn't follow the trends.
He looks ridiculous in that thing..
You have no eye for fashion!!!
I have no eye for fashion?!?!?!
All right! Come on!"
FRANK AND ESTELLE - GREATEST MOTHER AND FATHER EVER!
It's gold: http://youtube.com/watch?v=61aQCQy5e6M
'I'M OUT THERE GEORGE!'
The worlds collide episode is like my favourite tv moment of all time!
Have you heard the best of clips bit of music? I used to have it but don't and can't seem to find it on soulseek...It starts with 'WHO WANTS TO HAVE SOME FUN!' and then goes 'VANDALEY, VANDALEY, VANDALEY...!' Most feel good bit of listening ever!
SALES WOMAN: Mr. Pennypacker, this is Mr. Vandelay, And you know Mr. Varnsen
KRAMER: Uh, Varnsen.
GEORGE: Pennypacker. Varnsen.
JERRY: Vandelay. Wait a second. Mr. Pennypacker, if you're here, and Mr. Vandelay is also here, then who's watching the factory?
KRAMER: The factory?
JERRY: The Saab factory?
KRAMER: Jerry, that's in Sweden.
that is a great bit of tv
Jerry: I don't understand. Do you have my reservation?
Rental Car Agent: We have your reservation, we just ran out of cars.
Jerry: But the reservation keeps the car here. That's why you have the reservation.
Rental Car Agent: I think I know why we have reservations.
Jerry: I don't think you do. You see, you know how to *take* the reservation, you just don't know how to *hold* the reservation. And that's really the most important part of the reservation: the holding. Anybody can just take them.
Rental Car Agent: Would you like insurance?
Jerry: Yeah, you better give me the insurance. Because I'm gonna beat the hell out of this car.
George Costanza: I have a bad feeling that whenever a lesbian looks at me they think "That's why I'm not a heterosexual."
Jerry: This isn't a good time.
Telemarketer: When would be a good time to call back, sir?
Jerry: I have an idea, why don't you give me your home number and I'll call you back later?
Telemarketer: Umm, we're not allowed to do that.
Jerry: Oh, I guess because you don't want strangers calling you at home.
Telemarketer: Umm, no.
Jerry: Well, now you know how I feel.
[hangs up phone]
Aldon Benes: Which one's supposed to be the funny guy?
George Costanza: [pointing to Jerry] Oh, he's the comedian.
Jerry: I'm just a regular person.
George Costanza: No, no. He's just being modest.
Aldon Benes: We had a funny guy with us in Korea. A tailgunner. They blew his brains out all over the Pacific.
Aldon Benes: There's nothing funny about that.
George Costanza: Why do they make the condom packets so hard to open?
Jerry: Probably to give the woman a chance to change her mind.
they attempted to make a subtle show at all, they attempted to make a really funny show and succeded.
Arrested Development fans: www.dvdconcept.com are selling and shipping season 3 before its release date, I wish I knew this earlier.
you like friends
thats what it about.
I don't quite trust people who don't like Seinfeld to be honest.
Frank: You're late again, Costanza, so listen up. Starting tonight, we're
having a little sales contest. The loser gets fired, the winner
gets a Waterpik.
Estelle: (From another room) You're not giving away our Waterpik!
Frank: Serenity now!
George: You know what? It doesn't matter, because I quit!
Frank: I guess your mother was right. You never could compete with Lloyd
Braun! (Lloyd rings his sale bell and smiles)
George: You wanna sell computers? I will show *you* how to sell
computers! Hello, Mr. Farneman. You wanna buy a computer? No? Why
not? All right, I see! Good answer! Thank you! (Lloyd rings his sale bell)
i now see myself buying cheap seinfeld DVD sets when i go to the US.
thanks a LOT!
actually, i've been to NYC twice now and never visited the Seinfeld diner.
this thread is wrong! But it is better than So Haunt Me and there is BASS involved.........
it's so bad, it makes me want to destroy all bassists.
even the cute female ones.
I'd better get a job in Denmark Street then!
Actually it's a synth. So there.
And if it was an actual bassist it would still be awesome. So double there.
no it wouldn't.
it sounds like what i imagine a flea solo album would do.
those are both american.