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i'm watching it, it's quite good, does anyone know what happened in the first 15 mins?
and he's just hanging out with his little brother. that young boy is such a great actor. it's such a good film. and pretty disturbing. paddy considine freaks me out ever since i saw 'a room for romeo brass'.
it's quite disturbing, but good and british and so naturally acted. I'm liking it.
sorry dude, i couldn't resist!
slightly confused by the time frame, probably didn't help that i missed the start, when did anthony hang himself? were they still tormenting anthony after richard had come back from the army? someone explain the progression of events please...
from what I gathered Anthony was in Richards mind from the moment he was back from the army, they tormented him for one day then hung him, for the rest of the film he was simply in Richards mind.
richard was basically schizophrenic.
it's a great little twist, it's a lot like Taxi Driver in the way that it makes you question your own morality to a point of devastating conflict. who's really right?
absolutely cracking movie that gets better every time i see it.
Disturbing, upsetting and thought provoking.
i wasn't really left with many questions apart from a slight confusion over the plot. I was riveted for the whole film though.
And did you really think him wrong? Or agree with what he did?
is Richard a sympathetic protagonist? he is, after all, a sociopathic multiple murderer.
but then, you don't exactly side with the gang.
Richard is a sympathetic character in many ways, which is why it's shocking when you see what he actually is.
what the gang did was wrong, but the right response isn't to go around ritualisticily murdering all those involved.
It's just at least when I watched it I found myself agreeing with what Richard was doing without even realising quite how brutal he was.
but not his methods...
absolute genius. i should do that ti my mates, but not murder em brutally after.
but did you at any point sympathise with Richard?
usually the turning point for most people is when he axes the bald guy in the neck whilst he's on the bog.
but even then, there's a lingering urge to cheer him on against the gang of scumbags.
when i saw how horrible sonny was and how richard was scaring him, i was more on richard's side than sonny's.
before he starts hacking them all to bits, Richard seems like a classic Clint Eastwood character. it's very much a western, really. he's very sympathetic compared to the gang, but then he's shoving axes into people. the flashback bits where he's with the kids are horrible.
it's so comparable to Taxi Driver, but the key difference is that Taxi Driver had a right-wing screenwriter and a lefty director which is why the end is so brutally confusing: Scorcese added everything after the brothel shootout against Paul Schrader's wishes. Which shows what a 'nice guy' Schrader is really, and i'm fascinated as to how they ever managed to work together at all.
Dead Man's Shoes though is written incoherently completely on purpose just to really fuck with you, which is why the end is so awful to watch. Not awful meaning bad, obviously.
i found it quite coherent, i kind of expected that the gang had done something pretty serious for him to be so hellbent on revenge. and i think the viewer automatically sympathises with richard because the gang are presented as such unlikeable thugs right from the start.
how good is the soundtrack?
the fact it starts with Smog makes it great right away.
and the M.Ward song at the end is beautiful.
I was the only one in the room, it was a bit eerie. But yes, one of my favourite films ever, that. Masterpiece.
Can't think of much else to add
Though Romeo Brass ain't too far behind (Bob Mortimer's fave film btw). Paddy Considine is one to watch out for, and like a lot of people I thought Tobby Kebbell (Antony) was an actor with learning difficulties.
If you think the flashbacks to his meeting with the kids is dodgy, you should see the deleted scene on the DVD. Think it's only a fiver on Amazon at the mo.
Check out Shane and Paddy's early shorts: quality stuff :)
Breakdancing Lessons (far left) is dynamite - you can see why Paddy keeps getting chosen for music vids :)
Doing what they did and all.
Next time I order off Amazon I might as well throw this in the basket.
Yeah, he should've got an Oscar for his turn in that. Though apparently the Monday after it come out, he was back down the dole office to sign on.
Chris Morris film, My Wrongs.
I hated the ending though.
Watched it last week.
And I wanted him to feel successful at the end of the film - content that he'd got them back.
Then he just died.
the main character was severely mentally disturbed.
the whole film is like an elongated version of the end of Taxi Driver: the end, for me at least, is designed to make you realise that you've been supporting some horrible, horrible things.
I didn't think the things he did were horrible at all. I'd supported him all the way through, and even to the end.
and what about when he was with the kids?
I think people like Myra Hindley should have their faces smashed in with axes.
I loved it when he was with the kids and the guy's wife. He wasn't going to harm them, but he wanted the guy to be scared shitless, which he was.
did you not notice when he mock stabs the kid in the ribs?
who would be the executioner in a world that did shove axes in people's faces as punishment? could you do it?
The conversations they all have sound EXACTLY like what you hear round here when you go out.
They've summed up scumbags perfectly.
It was just my kind of film. The way he went around mercilessly butchering them all was exactly what I wanted him to do. Like Kill Bill, you get fun out of watching them die.
The morality thing you're all on about is a bit weird. I don't understand what sympathy you can feel for the people he kills at all. I don't see a problem with revenge. They weren't punished any other way, so it took him to come and kill them all.
schizophrenic murderers, as long as they're killing people you don't like?
it's awfully arrogant of you.
who deserve killing - yes.
as Richard says at the end, he'd become a 'monster'. He'd sunk to their level, perhaps even lower.
he felt guilty, which is why he died, which is fine.
But who am I to judge? I don't know how to answer that question.
What I do know, is that I believe that when people commit crimes like the ones in the film, they deserve exactly the same, if not worse, back. In all cases. I couldn't give a crap about any of the circumstacnes (ie. if they're 'troubled' or whatever).
If someone has been proven to have committed a terrible crime (rape, murder, paedophilia), they deserve physical punishment, I reckon.
who was really responsible for Anthony's death?
what about the last guy, who was clearly haunted by his past?
what about the punishment Richard 'deserved' after he'd tormented and murdered the gang?
He didn't deserve nothing. He was giving them what they deserved.
and what about the trauma he inflicted on the family at the end?
The realism is in the motivation behind the killings. When you combine this with the naturalistic dialogue, believable characters and ordinary setting it combines to create something powerful. That's the only way we can empathise with Richard. We all at one time or another will harbour powerful feelings and desire revenge for something. Thankfully, few of us act on this impulse. That is the mistake Richard makes and he is aware of it at the end.
Well, that's how I view it at any rate.
Anyway, we won the cricket........!
The realism was definitely shocking.
Usually, if you watch any film, and think of having a conversation from it in reality, its laughable. Even if you gave people the looks and expressions you see in films, you'd just look a twat.
Dead Man's Shoes was like a documentary. The town where its set looks similar to here as well. Horribly depressing with crap council houses everywhere.
you can tell he's suffered, from what he did/didn't do, from when he's confessing all to his wife. He'd lived with that for years. Whether you think that's an appropriate enough punishment is a matter of opinion.
Like someone said earlier in the thread, I can sort of understand how Richard thought that his acts were justified, I can't begin to imagine how I'd feel if I had to deal with that. But, personally, I don't go in for revenge.
in the new Arctic Monkeys video too. I prefered Room For Romeo Brass because the swing from harmless idiot to mental with a hammer was more severe.
He wasn't mock-stabbing the kid; they're asking him the best way how to kill someone with a knife so he shows them. In real life those kids are Paddy's nephews so in the scene where he finds them in the park there is a sort of father/son thing going on between them... albeit with a very sinister undercurrent. They're never scared once in that whole sequence and I think that's what makes it so creepy, that kids would trust a stranger if he knew how to talk to them.
Paddy's moodswings in Romeo Brass were spot on; he nailed the part of 'local weirdo' down to a T. Plus who can forget the classic one beat, two beat poem.... :)
His films with Pawel Pawlikowski are definitely worth checking out too if you liked DMS.
My Summer Of Love. Haven't seen The Last Resort. I'm like Barry Norman.
The Last Resort is well worth a watch; I think it's the only time anyone's ever been brave enough to put Margate on film.
The half a dozen shorts on that link I posted higher up are up there with the best though :)
by mock-stabbing one of them in the ribs.
it's creepy that someone would tell a child how to kill someone, and it's incredibly creepy to actually demonstrate where to stick the knife in.
it suggests that Richard isn't just killing whilst blinded by revenge.
I don't think he's meant to be portrayed as being blinded by revenge, I think it's more that his own guilt at what happened has made him psychotic. With regards to the killings etc he definitely knows his own mind, hence why he's completely mum and dad. During the acid sequence you hear him say to Soz "Come on, I've been planning this fucker for ages".
After he 'stabs' the kid, he shows them the correct way to pass a knife without cutting yourself or the person you're giving it to. Very eerie. Just goes to show you you really wouldn't ever want to get on the wrong side of a Para 8o
thos movie on this site loads of times and never get tired of discussing it. I really would say it was a modern, british taxi driver.
I found the things that the gang did to anthony absolutely horrific and in no way did i feel any sympathy for any of them. In my opinion they (especially sonny)...were just as sick as richard and would have probably killed or contributed to kill some other poor bastard.
What i liked about this film were the deedy little hovels they lived in....the horrid lives they lead...plastics gangsters with a horrid little safe in the cupboard containing a knife and a crossbow. The awful working mens club and the way they thought they were big time by intimidating people in a shit hole little town. you see that all over the country and my guess is meadows probably saw a lot of it where he came from.
in my opinion richard put them out of their misery
There's lots of little nods to Taxi Driver in the film: Richard's jacket, the poster in Sonny's bedroom. Sonny's 'arsenal' of shite mail-order weaponry was a nice touch too.
I agree that Sonny got off relatively lightly with a head-shot; there was an alternate version in the script where Richard made him suck him off but I'm glad they cut that.
Meadows has definitely nailed the regional wannabe gangster/chav militia in this film. The bit that clinched it for me was the gang driving around in the fucked 2CV and thinking they were King Shit. All it needed was some neon downlighting and dumpvalves and it'd be spot-on :)
where Richard shows the best way to kill someone with a knife is (hits bong) aaaah...supposed to be a piece of symbolic psychic bonding with his brother. The scenes of the two boys growing up together and playing during the credits is obviously at maximum contrast with the film's main body. My fave bit of the film remains the scene with Richard and Sonny by those garages. Horribly fucking tense. I loves it.
"Yeah, it was me" I love the pretend-scared tremble he does, classic! You can telly Gary Stretch is an ex-boxer the way he hovers round Richard, getting ready to stick one on him. Then the way his gangster ego is slowly deflated by Richard's speech... "I'm not threatening you mate. This is beyond fucking words".
As much as I'm looking forward to This Is England, I think Sweet Maria could be the one that scores Shane and Paddy some heavyweight brownie points :)