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what do people make of this?
thought what he's saying through and isn't just going for cheap attention-grabbing tactics.
i don't really have any problem with him releasing it, but i'm of the opinion that if you disagree with something you should say why you disagree with it and force a debate rather than simply getting out your bannination stick.
i just don't like cock
they've picked three potentially risky lyrics but i'd like to hear the whole thing before i made a real judgement. he seems quite reasonable so i don't think it's as menacing as they make it.
people go to gigs with the sole intent of writing a scathing review on the band
You go to bad gigs and write reviews about them because being negative about shit is fun, big and clever.
Kids who spout off about the country that enables them to spout off is also big and clever. But only if the spouting is big and clever.
If it's ig'nant-ass bullshit shot through with grammatical errors and a lack of awareness of the history of the events they claim to know all about, then it's not big and clever. It's ig-nant ass bullshit.
As I see - he used to be a drummer, and the Guardian sound like they like him. So all signs point to dumbass. But I'm willing to give it a listen.
It'd better be at least as good as a Wu Tang Clan side project...
yeah, he should just fuck off back to brownistahn.
surely it makes sense that you go where you like to be
unless you have some sort of agenda
permissable to live somewhere and still critique the society there. the only way you can force improvements to things you perceive to be wrong is to talk about them, no?
but he doesn't seem happy to be here at all
that doesn't mean it isn't still his home, y'know?
I like the way things are right now over here.
I wouldn't go and live in Pakistan and start trying to change things. I'd probably get raped or something, any way.
he was born abroad?
councils go up in arms about Union Jacks being put up, fearing the asian communities will feel "alienated" etc.?
This guy's spouting pretty extremist views against our country, like the suicide bomb lyric, correct? But what makes it any more acceptable than what people like the BNP say?
I could understand if it was purely political, but stuff like this is just encouraging young muslims to get involved in terrorism.
he's essentially critiquing our way of life and our morals and values, all of which are shifting, changing things and should be open for interpretation.
this is quite a bit different to what the BNP stand for.
are strong, right wing views on two cultures, though.
one is a lot more constructive than the other.
turn it round.
Imagine a white band writes some lyrics supporting Israel against Palestine or the Iraq war.
Everyone would cry their eyes out.
it would be so bad?
Not necessarily. Last year I was watching Scuzz at about 3 in the morning and some British metal band came on. The video was set on an actual warship - they had naval types running about, and the song was about how Iraq and war in general was awesome.
I just wish I remembered their name. And also why the song sucked so bad. I mean, I remember it sucked, I just don't remember how.
And even though it sucked - it still ruled.
its just that the guardian is a terrible, terrible newspaper.
personally I think he has every right to air his views
don't think it's going to alter the landscape of debate though - if anything it will further polarise things to their militant extremes
I think someone has to do it though, I mean surely one of the purposes of art is to challenge the status quo and that sort of thing...
THERE WEREN'T ANY WARS IN THE 1970s
part of his anger is at the fact that there is hardly anywhere you can go to escape the hegemony of 'American' ideals
perhaps also for him to just say 'this place is fucked up - I'm off to Shangri-La' would be rather selfish
because the historical fight for resources and survival have burdened our evolutionary instincts and our gene-pool by favouring murder, destruction and aggression
that was the 70s wasn't it?
And Fun Da Mental were silly festival rubbish from what I can recall of them
but you may have a point about Fun Da Mental
because he's attacking one form of evil power (American Hegemony) with another (fundamentalist Islam).
Both are utter crap.
The fact that he is intelligent enough to understand what's bad about suicide bombers, etc. makes it even worse that he is consciously rejecting a proper humanitarian standpoint. I don't have much time for that sort of outlook.
gianluca pessotto though innit
he didn't have a bomb strapped to him, incidentally.
what approach would you advocate Theo?
I worry when I read stuff like:
"...the hypocrisy and immorality of the west. One supposedly dream-like track predicts the demise of America at the hands of Islam."
Because, combined with the line "Reject your mini skirt liberation" makes me think he is following the bizarre idea that the 'immorality' of the west is about girls not wearing lots of clothes and generally having 'fun'.
I don't agree with the sort of oppression America applies to the third world but equally I have no interest in living under a Taliban-like regime. In short just because something is not American doesn't mean I absolve it of any 'sin'. I believe in the important humanitarian concepts of socialism that have given us the NHS and may one day give us a publically-owned railway again and publically-owned utilities.
I don't actually believe that socialist states (going by examples as they've been tried thus-far, and judging by the general nature of humans) will succeed as a method of governing people, however.
I hope this post makes some sense.
And I agree with everything you say (to a point)
I think perhaps he is using a rhetorical approach to redressing the balance - which of course, as you point out, leaves him open to the accusation of trying to counter his enemy by becoming like his enemy
and as for the demise of America at the hands of Islam - reggae and dub artists have been singing about the burning of Babylon for decades...
anyway, I think he's doing a courageous thing. Whether it'll backfire or whether the music is actually any good remains to be seen/heard
this is really why I said I just didn't think I'd get on with him.
I don't see any reason not to release the record. If people don't like the notions in it, they'll dump it.
Though his attempt to draw parallels with the Sex Pistols seem all wrong to me. Surely they weren't really being very political - just attacking the notion of establishment, and hardly eolquently. Dunno, they just don't resonate for me as bein about extremism like the lyrics in this case are?
lock him up
not really that challenging, or politically controversial, except for 'cookbook DIY'.
really looks to me like a bad imitation of ratm, with lyrics and politics that are intended to 'cause a stir', but have little brains.
totally. his music may be shit (having not actually listened to it, i wouldnt know), and i may disagree with what he thinks, but that doesnt mean i think he should be banned / criminalised for his views.
a lot easier just to put his words/lyrics up to scrutiny. He would get absolutely battered in an argument against any semi-intellegient human being.
good point- but its not just the banning and criminilisation that I find worrying.
Its the fact that the views he is expressing are so strongly disagreed with by 'they' that its almost impossible to have a rational debate about it, and when it is impossible to rationally debate something people feel 'that' strongly about, that's when people turn to terrorism...
The Guardian would jump on this as some sort of brilliant free speech thing.
I say good on em. Get this music out, and get a BNP supplement in the next edition too. Everyone's happy and we can all relax in a warm bubble of racial hatred.
to make that statement about the 'BNP supplement'
a) It was a joke.
and b) Why is it wrong to suggest that giving media attention to one side of the race debate is OK, and the other is unacceptable?
Surely you can see that someone glorifying terrorism against Brits is no worse than someone glorifying the persecution of foreigners and coloured people?
Hell, I don't agree with either, but let em say what they want as far as I'm concerned. I don't agree with Orson either but they're not banned.....
i don't think he is glorifying terrorism.
that all sounds pretty reasonable to me...
There's too much hysteria attached to 'sensitive' political issues, so it's good to see someone dealing with those in a ratonal way.