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*not sure i've heard a frightened rabbit song.
What a bedwetting band with bedwetting bedwetters
Never really thought Parachutes was massively bedwetting, their later stuff more so. Parachutes has aged really well imo.
B&S are Twee, which is very, very different from bedwetter indie
OK they were pop but they so fit the bill
well, mostly their fans. They're not bad, but every post I see about them reads like the writers is trying to hold back the tears while they listen to Oh Comely for the thousandth time.
Slightly ashamed of myself.
I was on a bus the other day and it was my birthday and I was listening to that track and reading some maths stuff and cried. In a good way.
I don't think I listen to much of it apart from NMH of course
I am unbearably whiny and probably a little creepy in real life.
And are now more likely to have a good quilt-soiling session to Taylor Swift, Kanye West and Tim Hecker.
as like staring at the sky and waiting to be hit by lightning
hope you cut their face
and said Gemini Becoming the Tripod reminded me of the emergence of some vast tentacled elder godthing
Those are my two favourite Kayo Dot songs, btw - lightning-tentacled godthings the pair of 'em :)
Although, I am listening to the first track off the new one now, and that's pretty incredible
As I said on the New Kayo Dot Album thread, in fact
But I think that with every song on the album when it comes on.
I think Dowsing Anemone is still probably my favourite album by them though.
I only mention them because their small contingent of fans on here seem so ready to tear down the musical choices of others - although I suppose that's really what the music board is all about at its core. :D
listening to 'hubardo' right now and it's really good.
and you know it
I love Sufjan
Brand New, AKA Green Day for try-hards
its like saying Arcade Fire are Simple Plan for try hards
as music which is only nominally indie, i.e musically not avant-garde, not leftfield, not interesting, not uniquely counter cultural or anti-mainstream, but which is made by and for boys who don't like football but want to be involved in a similar culture.
By this I don't mean the 'lad culture' associated with football, more the way people compulsively rate albums, argue about which is best without any effort to engage in musical dialectic and idolise band members in that fanboy way as if they're going to be stuck into a trading card album ("Gareth Campesinos: Singing 6. Instrument playing 3. Special category - Fringe 10"). Its really just a tool by which to establish the bedwetter's personality, as in opposition to "non indie".
Think any 'bedwetting' lyrical content is a small factor, but a factor nonetheless.
Bedwetter activities include arguing about the validity of pitchfork ratings or actually reading indie music journalism.
First band that comes to mind is the national.
with the caveat that they usually DO like football
I'd see bedwetter indie, if it was to ever become a thing, as being vaguely avant-garde, vaguely obtuse, capable of being developed rigueur in niche circles but always still too out there for the mainstream. Emperor's new clothes stuff.
might stop the snippy final sentences.
Your Fuck Buttons suggestion was perfect - music that harbours ambitions of greatness but whose eventual apotheosis is to sound inoffensive behind a BBC montage
will get them decent press & even get people to like them - lots of people, in fact, and why not? they're manipulative for a reason
I really like Duck Buttons btw. Never even heard a National song.
neither of these people actually like music.
actually just made something else up which might hold water.
Bedwetters only appreciate what they consume in a selfish way. They're interested in how it affects them - will be able to tell you favourite gig moments (usually when a band member has looked at them or stage dived on them), times the music has emotionally moved them in a unique way (see upthread).
That's all fine but really its the equivalent of bourgeois consumption with 'good capitalism' in mind: their musical discretion aims towards supporting 'ethical' (read "indie") products with the idea that it might propagate to others and unethical music doesn't enter their world. Unfortunately they're deluded in the same way folks who think they have power as a consumer when they're at tesco.
They believe in the musical social contract which says that music is made by individuals in the free market so that other individuals can pick and chose what suits them. Despite arguiing about ratings all the time, when pushed a bedwetter will usually just say 'well its all subjective at the end of the day isn't it'
They're not interested in the way music moves in the world in myriad competing and contradicting ways, in musical oddities, in humanity shining through art - it's all treated as a commodity.
just made that up there but I think its undeniable.
gonna give it a 7.8
Is that aimed at me?
the way I listen to music can be identified with "bourgeois consumption" and means I treat music only as a commodity (???)
that's nice to know :D
and deauthorised that sentence
Still astonishing bollocks though.
that everybody's individual personal reactions to any media should all be accorded equal value.
In this schema the reaction caused in somebody by sinead o'connor's solitary tear is as valueable as the patriotic stir caused in the heart of an imbecile on hearing brian may's rooftop rendition of god save the queen.
you engage very directly with the music itself & respond with absolute sincerity
Identifying which section of this plane is the bedwetting one will require a bit more thought because, as I said, I just made all that up.
think it works though
There are those who don't but I think they'd more typically be labelled "hipsters" but really idk.
There doesn't seem much point in music otherwise...
arghfuck I'm confused
But I've definitely had conversations with people who are raving about a band...before it becomes clear they haven't listened to them properly. Find that odd
as he's the closest person I've ever encountered to a musical/cultural doppelganger, but I do feel that "[can recount] times the music has emotionally moved them in a unique way" as a criticism really needs more consideration. Perhaps you mean insincere claims to generalised emotion (e.g. 'Everyone was almost in tears at the sonic magnificence of The Arcade Fire') rather than sincere & involuntary responses (e.g. 'fuck I read Gravity's Rainbow and it reduced me to tears at the end')
this will take some thought. definitely the most problematic thing you said there
- when the responsive discourse is centred around ONE'S OWN REACTION rather than the text itself, we have bedwetter
- when the responsive discourse INCORPORATES ONE'S OWN REACTION but uses it to flesh out a sincere appraisal of the text, we do not have bedwetter - we have criticism
- when the responsive discourse does not incorporate ANY EMOTIONAL REACTION, we have boring criticism
and thus very little actually ends up in the third camp
there are many grey areas between 1 & 2, can only really be judged on a case-by-case basis. think Oissin_ usually falls on the right side of the line. most of us probably do.
EXCEPT, I dunno if what you or yes_ are talking about is really what is referred to as "bedwetter indie".
You seem to be talking about more a reaction to music whereas it mainly seems to be used to talk about the music itself (or maybe music that would engender such a reaction?). I always thought it was more a particular sound (mainly guitar indie, musically fairly simplistic, comforting(?) and non-challenging (although, fuck knows what people mean when they say music is "challenging" either)), lyrics which mainly engage with the singer's personal emotional reactions without any attempt at looking at a "bigger picture" or something more conceptual.
on account of being simple, slightly indistinguishable, projecting a veneer of passion, redolent of aforeheard catharses, resistant to close analysis or questioning, artistically superficial...
shut it down boys
mr "bands let down by their frontman"
You've just been identified as a bedwetter. Own it or go home.
When a thread of similar nature went the same way. Given the alternative, I'll wear the badge with pride.
Consequently, you have to check-in at Eric Clapton's Caribbean rehab for a cure. Lots of blood transfusions, things like that. Hurts a little but in the end it's totally worth it.
Saved $150 by skipping the Vampire Weekend show last week. So rehab's already paying big dividends.
Ctrl+F "Bright Eyes"
You've all lost it.
it's angsty over-emosh whine music, by middle-class types who (mostly) went to university and probably write poetry. It's anti-masculine and for the socially inept (esp. with girls) yet `thoughtful`. Lyrics to that effect massively help, but the music can't be too aggressive either.
Lot of people getting mixed up in this thread with so-called hipster stuff - Fuck Buttons (for example) isn't bedwetter indie.
to borrow a cat_race, it's not a thing
That's what I'm doing, anyway
what's your point?
but it is used frequently on this web site, and for all that it isn't a thing, it does have a meaning and a purpose behind its use (i.e. mildly derogatory).
could possibly be considered bedwetter indie. If it was a thing.
In the year 2000. Before Parachutes had sold about 3 million copies and Coldplay turned into a soppy behemoth.
I'll yield and agree that 'bedwetter' can best be used to describe the music of Coldplay and their ilk, but I think that means we'll have to retire its playful use in relation to DiSers.
Is there such a thing as the Songwriters' Union? If so, whoever's in that.
Tracks: not bedwetter. Tunes: not bedwetter. Choons: not bedwetter. Cuts: not bedwetter. Jams: not bedwetter. Bangers: not bedwetter... Songs: probably bedwetter.
but this... this isn't a thing. this isn't a hundred posts. this is misdirected exertion.
Having said that, whenever people use the term, I always get a rough idea of what they mean. The bands in question (i.e. Radio Dept, Bishop Allen, Field Mice, Los Campesinos, The National, Pinback, Tullycraft, Frightened Rabbit, mclusky, Belle And Sebastian, Death Cab For Cutie, Twilight Sad, Johnny Foreigner, etc.) vary in quality, but I think they have certain tenets in common. They have a preference towards a kind of textbook modern indie sound, which sits stylistically midway between Postcard Records and Steve Albini, and is characterised by a sort of un-macho boyish (often snarky and sarcastic) vocal delivery, lazy post-punk/post-rock guitar noodling, deliberate lack of theatricality, stream-of-consciousness lyrics, etc.
Those kind of bands (and their fans) will prefer to stick within those boundaries, rather than bring in outside influences or experiment with new sounds all that much. For that reason, I’d disqualify people like Sufjan Stevens (who’s too theatrical anyway) and Conor Oberst, as they’ve often gone off in various experimental directions (electronica, classical, etc). I’d also disqualify Coldplay, Keane and Elbow, as they’re too mainstream and big-sounding. Once you’ve seen a group of tubby skinheads chanting Politik or Everybody’s Changing, you can’t really say those songs belong to bedwetters anymore.
Most genuinely wet music - boyband stuff, Embrace, James Morrison etc. - isn't 'indie'. Even Belle & Seb have some pretty dark songs.
(walking onstage etc etc)
i think I like it.