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Pop Music
So everyone keeps bending my ear about how Chvrches and Haim are "great pop music". I disagree. It sounds lazy and derivative to me and the singers lack genuine pop appeal.
But it did get me thinking about what good pop music actually means now, and how much our idea of what pop music should be informs our understanding of what pop music actually is.
I don't think I've heard anything that I'd genuinely call great pop music (in the vein of Beach Boys, Madonna, Whitney, Prince etc) in a very long time (perhaps Gaga?) so I just wonder what pop music means anymore.
Ramble away.
You're coming at this from the wrong angle
Chvrches in particular aren't 'just good pop', that's the point. There's more to them than that, and the general, single-buying, chart-deciding public don't want to hear a song called 'The Mother We Share', they want big dumb choruses like Wake Me Up and Roar. Gone are the days of vaguely interesting tracks getting into the very top of the charts, for the most part.
So I agree that we're currently in a bit of a slump when it comes to genuinely huge pop stars with integrity like MJ or whatever, but I think that Haim and Chvrches and that have very little to do with this.
Haim = just bad pop
"Good pop" = "music I find catchy"
oops, hit enter too early
not that the above idea is bad, but I think it's a very abstract definition that's somewhat indiscriminately applied; especially when "Good Pop" doesn't appear to be all that different in style from "Bad Pop."
Sounds like from your last paragraph
That rather than "just good pop" or whatever, you are looking for a genuine pop star.
In which case you're on the money with Gaga (don't like her, but she is). I'd also put forward Janelle Monae in that bracket.
Love is a bourgeois contstruct is great pop music!
I have nothing else to add at this stage.
I have an idea in my head of what a good pop album might be
It usually contains catchy, satisfying songs that often stick to your verse-chorus-verse structure. There can be flashes of individuality and experimentation, but it's usually safe without suffering for it. Good examples in recent years:
Grimes - Visions
Purity Ring - Shrines
Twin Shadow - Confess
When Saints Go Machine - Konkylie
Iron & Wine - Ghost on Ghost
Rhye - Woman
Wild Nothing - Nocturne
In the case of some albums (Wild Nothing for example) the songs are good enough for it to become a firm favourite. I realise this has little relation to "pop" music, but it's how I use the term anyway.
I think it's fair to say pop doesn't have as many creditable artists as say there were in the 80's.
There aren't that many pop songs now that will stand the test of time.
A genre that you could say something similar about is the so called "Rn'b scene". I really don't know what happened there, truly awful nowadays.
The last what id call pop song was Bruno Mars locked out of heaven
I think it's both a popstar and a timeless pop classic. I dunno - if you listen to Madonna's first few albums they must've been pretty mind blowing at the time. Like the production and electronic elements must've been pretty cutting edge at the time but that was transgressed by the fact they were brilliant pop songs. Same goes for MJ, Whitney, Cyndi Lauper etc.
@Wonton - I don't think anyone on that list has the universal appeal of a great pop artist but I get where you're coming from.
Maybe it's just that things don't get consumed in the same way and everything is so 'understood' and 'knowing' that it's hard to do anything genuinely new with pop music that isn't referential / pastiche?
Spot on about Madonna's early stuff
Without thinking too much Lucky Star, Borderline and Holiday all ridiculously good pop songs.
Janelle Monae?
Watch out, you're baiting the neo-pop purists, the perfect pop brigade
The guy that has broken free from the shackles of rockism, he who has cracked the pop code, he who will go to extreme lengths to show that he appreciates richard youngs AND will defend his top 10 girls aloud song list to the death.
He's so po-mo that he'll be like, guys, wait, sure *I* can appreciate that pop music is manufactured, cynical, and speaks to nothing about my experience, but that doesn't mean that I havn't cleverly noticed that there are patterns and heritage within pop music that I can point out, straight-faced, as I describe Rihanna's new single as 'a banger'.
you alright mate?
Well summized.