Do you prefer to pay on the door at gigs?
Hi
I've been having a chat with a few friends and at least some of the people I know, prefer to wait until the last min and pay for a gig on the door - even though it's usually more expensive!
These are for smaller bands, where entry is a tenner or less, not to see the Fleetwood Mac's of this world. Also, for gigs they decided they going to go to way in advance.
I promote some shows and it's always reassuring to see those adv sales creeping but I've noticed with some of my own shows. The apparent growing trend of people to just turn up and pay X on the door.
I'm wondering whether this is coming more common at gigs in general and if you guys always buy an adv ticket or wait until the last minute.
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Depends
small/pub type gigs are always on the door
surely?
Depends on:
How likely it is to sell out,
How certain I am that I'll be able to make it,
^This pretty much
I buy in advance occassionally. Mainly ones where I dunno if I'll have the spare cash at the time and really want to go.
I have turned up with advanced tickets and been looked at as a complete nutter though. I'm also always slightly concerned they'll not have me on the list because there is no list - just me with an advance and everyone else with a crumpled banknote.
I prefer to buy in advance
otherwise I get too anxious about whether I'll get in.
For pretty much all smaller gigs I'd pay on the door.
Unless it was really, really, really likely to sell out. It's just less hassle.
I'm with SarahIsPi on this one.
I leave my flat with the sole intention to go out to a certain gig and don't want to risk it being sold out. You can hang around pubs beforehand without worry of it being sold out . The free History of Apple Pie gig last week at the Old Blue Last was one of the few gigs in recent years that I turned up to not knowing if I'd get in. Luckily I did (and it was a great gig) though I'd rather have paid a "nominal" £5 for an advanced ticket from WeGotTickets perhaps so I knew that I was guaranteed entry before I left my flat for a 40 minute journey to Old Street.
I quite like keeping all my ticket stubs so I often buy in advance if I can be bothered
Definitely buy in advance if it might sell out obviously.
i put all mine
in the relevant albums
i'm surprised there are so many pre-buyers here
unless you're putting on Foals in the Dog & Parrot you'd never have to worry about a sellout and a sell out would be the only reason I can see for preselling
London gigs, despite them being in bigger venues than the rest of the country,
Still sell out more often than those in other cities. Whether it's because of the wider catchment and publicity, the larger number of people who don't want to miss a gig, or the larger amount of pre-planning involved in going to a gig in London, it's hard to say.
I used to just wander down to gigs in Newcastle on the night a lot too, but there were still lots of gigs that sold out in advance, at all sizes of venue. Not as many as in London, for sure, but enough for it not to seem an alien concept.
like when i thought i'd be able to wait a while before getting tickets
for local natives at the brudenell but then couldn't because it SOLD OUT?
everything in london is sold out
always
Is it more expensive though?
I mean after you've factored in the booking fee, postage and the like.
If I think somethingI really want to go to is likely to sell out, then yes, I'll buy in advance. Otherwise I'll pay on the door (admittedly this is due to being disorganised as much as any conscious decision).
We price our tickets so that advance ones (on wegottickets) are £2 cheaper than on the door.
This covers the difference in booking fee and makes buying in advance more attractive to the punter.
As a promoter we like advance sales as it allows us to plan or pre-order things with reduced risk.
Oh, I can entirely understand from a promoter's point of view why you'd want to encourage advance sales
(nothing worse than the worry that only two people are going to turn up), but do you find that people do make the effort to buy in advance to save 2 quid?
It depends on the night of the week and the venue and the band,
But we probably sell about 50-75% of our tickets in advance (Friday and Saturday nights are good for walk-ups, venues with a definite music policy help too).
a couple of times I've done this it's been cheaper on the door
That might be the case for paper tickets,
But there's no justification for that from a consumer point of view or from a sound economics point of view if they're e-tickets.
A lot of my gigs are booked from WeGotTickets and the fees are 10%
of the gig ticket. It's not necessarily a money thing as you'd only lose or gain a quid or two from buying in advance than buying on the door. It's just about gaining entry. I'd be pissed off if I went out with the intention of going to a gig, knowing that advanced tickets were available, but chose to buy them on the door only to find it sold out.
Ok interesting stuff.
Yes sometimes there is no or little difference between the adv and on the door price when you add in booking fee etc, but I guess I just prefer the piece of mind. Especially if it's a band with a decent fanbase/ rep (perhaps signed, playing major fests, receiving national airplay etc).
i prefer to be on the guest list
it is what separates us from the animals
I don't know who you are, pal.
I like to buy in advance
An actual ticket, from a record store or the box office if there is one. Often as soon as the gig is announced and on sale, and even if I know there is little chance of it selling out.
It's just what I've always done. I love opening my desk drawer and looking at all the tickets I have stashed in there for gigs I'm looking forward to. Really makes me happy, that.
I also love an inventive and creative ticket design; really makes the event seem that much special.
i love you
Almost always in advance
because:
a) it is usually cheaper, especially when buying tickets from WeGotTickets
b) guaranteed to get in (I'm terrible at guessing which gigs sell out)
c) no bailing out, forces you to leave the house even if the weather is a bit shit or there's something half-decent on telly
yeah i usually get tickets just to stop me not going in the end through apathy
i like to buy in advance
mostly so i can budget better for the evening, msot of the gigs i go to are the smaller venue, cheaper gigs, tickets are a fiver that sort of thing. if i know i'm going, especially on a weeknight, i can get a tenner out of the cash machine, have a couple of drinks, maybe be a record or something (i suppose i'd normally get a 20 out actually) and it's all quite comfy. If i had to factor in paying on the door, thats 30 out of the cashy and it suddenly becomes a bigger night.
Also, i like to pick up the majority of tickets around pay day so i'll bulk buy for the next handful of gigs and it wont seem like a massive outlay.
i am quite anal about tickets and stuff as well and knowing what i've got coming up, so that doesnt help
Pretty much exactly what I do
Also I stock up on what I want to buy and then splurge on payday which sets me up for the next month or two. Means that no matter how poor I get at whatever stage of the fiscal month, I have something already paid for and arranged throughout, and thus don't have to just stay home. If it's an option, and you know it's a gig you definitely want to go to, I don't see why you wouldn't buy a ticket. Obviously this is for venues above pub size, but smaller places like Vortex or Cafe Oto have a tendency to sell out a lot so I always feel the need to book even if it's not one of the likely big sellers.
i barely ever go to gigs that need a ticket in advance (except festivals)
can't remember what the last one was. maybe sleighbells about 18 months ago. but that was rubbish. anyway, charging more on the door than for an advance ticket just so you can get some advanced sales and stop having a little panic is STUPID
It's not stupid at all
Actually a really good idea. Festivals are increasingly adopting a similar method with Early Bird tickets.
As Marckee said, it helps the promoter in knowing how much cash they have to play with and whether or not it may be a good idea to switch venues depending on how many people are expected to attend. Also you, the punter, may get to save a quid or two if booking in advance.
I also reckon people would go to far more gigs if they booked in advance more often.
no that's all nonsense
i could argue about this at length but i will save you the snore-fest. no good comes of tickets
well its not really is it
it guarantees that the promoter at least has some money to pay the bands (and of coruse the venue/soundman, etc) i know quite a few promoters on london and i'm sure all of them would love to have a decent amount of advance sales so they can stop panicing in the days leading up to the gigs.
differing prices to achieve it is a bit off though
also i can only imagine it adds another cost onto the event
nope
oops, stupid fat fingers
if a promoter has sold a shitload of advance tickets then they can chill, know the gig will break even, splash out on the sun-dried tomato hummus for the dressing room.
if it's done no advance tickets, they're going to have to think about spending some more money on advertising.
if door and advance are same price and no one buys ahead of time and everyone just shows up on the night that's annoying because they've spent money on ads they didn't need to, which pushes the show costs up, which means the gig is less likely to break even, so both band and promoter walk away with less money.
as long as tickets are available through somewhere like WGT (though ticketweb, stargreen, ticketline are sometimes ok too) without insane booking fees, then more people buying in advance means a better deal for fans, bands and promoters.
makes TOTAL sense.
i too hit return before i type a full post, i feel your pain
we live in an age where small promoters have more tools than ever before to judge turnout for events. i just don't see that paying a ticket seller to track sales is the only way to judge whether or not you need to do some more advertising
What are these tools of which you speak?
Facebook'? Last.fm? Entirely unreliable.
you think facebook is entirely unreliable?
i know people that always use it as a steer. the actual number may not be accurate but when promoting regular events for example, a guy i know started having a breakdown when the event that on a normal month has 200 people saying they will go and about 80 turn up then one month had about 500 say they could go and then a couple of hundred showed up.
it's valuable information
the flipside to this
is that it's is always hilarious when promoters publicly and angrily vent because loads of people who said they were going on facebook didn't turn up
well yes, that is definitely hilarious
but more fool them for not understanding the world properly
But this pricing method is widely used in many products and services
If you want to go to a gig why not just buy a ticket if you saves you money?
keep in mind that the VAST majority of shows i go to will not have tickets
but i just do not see why there should be this price difference. people can always get a good idea of how many people will turn up to a show. i've been playing and attending diy gigs for years and just don't see the point. everyone complains about ticket companies adding fees on. they're just legal touts. it's bollocks.
I think you're trying to apply a generalisation about your own views and habits on to everyone else
are you telling me that people DON'T complain at ticket company fees?
*about
I don't
I pay less than a euro in fees, which is way less than what it would cost me on the door
maybe european ticket sellers aren't quite at the level of scumbaggery that UK ones are
Also as I noted below, selling stuff out in advance is good for bands and everyone involved
I'm not talking about giant agencies but even smaller promoters. They feel more confident to book things in the future and have more actual liquidity rather than just estimated liquidity. It makes financial sense. Helps both sides.
i don't see why it would make a difference to them booking different stuff in the future
just because one gig sold out doesn't mean a different gig with a different band will
I think advance tix works better for venues that are
somewhere between pubs and academies, venues like Soup Kitchen or Night and Day (maybe not so much in the past couple of years) where they have bands who are not big but sort of up and coming (for want of a better phrase). Like they might be getting a bit of press which could spark some interest and a sales boost. Whereas if you're going to a gig at Fuel or the Castle or something, paying on the door is totally fine (even though they're smaller venues) but then as you say they are unlikely to sell tix in advance anyway. In short: I dunno
You're being obtuse.
There was a guy who posted on here a whole back who puts on gigs in Cardiff and he said specifically promoters don't book UK tour style shows in Cardiff because the shows there tend not to sell out in advance or instead do so 1-2 days before the event. Promoters and tour bookers aren't comfortable with that kind of risk, neither are the bands who often live right on the edge in terms of finances.
there is risk involved in these things
that seems like a given. but you're quoting problems with the whole system again. bands living on the edge financially? probably should be doing something different. maybe they can book the tours themselves and stop paying a booking agent
You're just a moron
Continue living in cloud cuckoo land.
Please think about what you said just there. It equates to: if you're not rich and have lots of spare time, you shouldn't be in a band.
oh great so now it's personal?
no, that's absolutely not what i'm saying. i've been involved in bands for long enough to know it's feasible. loads of bands book their own tours and you know? it actually works.
You are such a clown
Pretty much every gig I go to is pay-on-the-door.
#diyforever #supportthescene etc.
As a very regular gig goer and a promoter (at The Hope & Anchor, Islington)
We don't do advance tix for our gigs. Send us an e-mail and you're guaranteed entry. £7 on the door. £5 for students with NUS Card.
I'll get advance tix for big shows and most of the gigs that WeGotTickets sell for. The ones I don't get advance for are those where I know the promoter and am virtually guaranteed entry, even for sold out gigs (I do pay and rarely do Guest List)
what sort of shows do you put on at the hope?
Isn't that a recipe for disaster?
Like if people emailed you for guaranteed entry, but in the end decided not to turn up? Would potential ticket sales on the door be turned away because the gig was "sold out" then you found out those people who asked for guaranteed entry didn't turn up after all?
The Hope & Anchor has a capacity of about 90
As you can see from the list above of Artists we have put on, the vast majority are relatively unknown. We've yet to have a sell out.
We have plans to make a going concern of Promoting. We pay all the bands that play for us at least £80 and usually more. It's loss making at the moment but we knew that from the start. We're trying to make a name for ourselves, so people come because we're promoting it, not because of the Artists playing (like I do with Club AC30 and Sonic Cathedral. I can usually trust their judgement and go along to their gigs even if I've never heard the Artists before).
We have plans to promote at bigger venues in the near future which will cover our losses made thus far.
We want to be the best small London Promoters and eventually the best larger London Promoter. We really look after the people who play for us and several have said we're the best they've ever played for.
If people say they'll come and don't (which is a fairly regular occurence, it isn't a problem as we've never had a sell out yet. I would reckon that if we did get a big name that people were desperate to see, that they'd come down early for the gig to make sure, because I bet they'd be nervous about not having an advance ticket anyway! And the fact we have people's e-maill addresses, we can let them know in advance of a potential sell out to be down by a certain time, or we'll re-allocate their places.
Ah great stuff
All the best with the plans, it's clear a lot of thought has been put into it.
Know what you mean about "trusting" a promoter and going along to their shows. For me it's One Inch Badge in Brighton, as I go along to gigs where I haven't heard of the band but know there's a fair chance I'll enjoy it anyway. I've discovered a lot of new music that way. I've always thought they should have a membership option where you pay a monthly fee and get to go to all their gigs or something.
That membership option
Is something we've considered. We we're thinking of doing some form of season ticket, where if you go to 5 gigs you get 1 free or something along those lines.
I've not heard of One Inch Badge. I'll check them out. We want to work with like minded Promoters in the future (Simon Caitlin at Grey Lantern in Manchester being a case in point) to help support each other, against the likes of Live Nation and the other big boys, so we can get Punter's and Artists a fairer deal.
That means if we get Artists over from the continent, we can get them gigs around the country too. There are a few small American bands we'd love to put on, but if they just had a one off show, it would not be cost effective.
We booked The Lost Rivers in London last November and Dom Gourlay put them on in Nottingham and Simon Caitlin in Manchester. We want to do a lot more like that, but with other Promoters.
Thanks for the kind words too Fuzzy.
All sorts, but only bands we've seen before and like - We have put on so far
Two Skies, Toba Caldera, Blindness, Guile, Richard Warren, Spotlight Kid, Jesus Deluxe, Crystal Head, Winterhouse, The Anteloids, Dolittle, She Makes War, Death Of Six By Seven (their 1st London gig), Four Dead In Ohio, The Blood Choir, Tenebrous Liar, F.U.R.S. (First ever gig - just got support for johnny Marr),The Pockets, Daniel Land, Arrows Down, Plank!, Cyril Snear, Monsters Build Mean Robots, The Lost Rivers, 93MillionMilesFromTheSun, Evi Vine & LA Salami
If My Brother & I like an Artist, we'll try and put them on for us.
Usually the 2nd & 4th Friday of every month.
hey, you put plank! on
they're my best buds. like actual best buds. i've played in loads of bands with liam and ed. dave's alright too i guess
Ask 'em about how they were treated by Chris (Me) and my Brother Mike for the Hope show
They were one of the bands that said we were amongst the best promoters they've worked with.
Plank! were superb at our night. Great bunch of Guys.
They shifted some merch that night too from recollection
i actually recall them mentioning how good it was
good effort
Cheers
Buying in advance from local gig promoters is bound to help
especially if they have tight budgets as they get a quick return of some money and it allows them to plan other future shows at the same time instead of waiting til the aftermath of one show to see how they did financially.
Also things tend to sell out really fast these days.
I've been to, give or take, 200 shows.
Not counting those odd shows which were surprise shows, and thus advance tickets didn't exist, I have never bought tickets at the door.
I live an hour from town, meaning that, minimum, my round trip commute is two hours. If I'm going to spend the time on that commute, I want to know that my time wasn't spent on little more than a nice walk and a train ride. And if I want to go to a show, I'm going to spend the money on it, instead of saying, "Oh, right, that's tonight, may as well go check it out."
you'll need a bigger sample size
and to attend shows where there are no tickets
What's wrong with my sample size?
200 gigs is basically none
that's not an insult. i'm old and nearly dead.
200 isn't bad for only being 22
I only started doing this actively when I was 18
Pretty much always buy in advance
Because I like,being organised and suffer from chronic lateness
Also it helps support tours in your town/city if things sell out in advance.
Promoters are more likely to book other bands and tours there EPEX etc
And venues over here tend to be a lot smaller than in the UK so there is a genuinely high risk of going somewhere to find its filled up or sold out if you're too late
People seem to be overlooking the simple pleasure
of rocking up to an independent record store and buying a ticket over the counter. In many cases they will also recommend other gigs you may be interested in and hopefully the ticket will look nice and you can keep it on your desk and everytime you look at it you will be reminded of the gig you are looking forward to.
Also it's a fun game to try and nab ticket #1, like a challenge to see how quick off the mark you can be and score +100 indie points whilst you're at it. No? Just me then.
A lot of the agents for touring bands...
ask for details of tickets sold on advance on a weekly basis. If a venue hasn't sold many in advance, if would make them nervous about offering them other bands, even if eventually a load of people pay on the door.
another reason the way music works is all wrong
What's your solution then?
What this essentially comes down to is you don't want to see bands who are full time and need to make money consistently in order to continue to make music and tour
no, not at all
if agents don't continue to use a promoter even after a good gig because a lack of advanced sales made them nervous then that's bad. i would think you can see that.
The key factor here is risk.
Businesses don't like risk. Hate it infact.
yeah i know
should probably just leave it to the bands and gig promoters
Who also don't like risk.
Advance ticket sales are a good thing. The band or promoter reduces your costs because you are helping them. Win win.
Yeah was also talking about the promoter
and by extension the band themselves
weekly?
try daily. ugh.
feel like UK tours tend to be pretty short at the moment
(often anything from one to four dates) for overseas bands of a not-neccessarily-DIY-but-very-much-small-scale nature, which raises the possibility of people travelling a long way to go and see them. tickets seem a pretty reasonable gesture in that instance I think
This is one of the reasons I really like the idea of that detour thing that Sean was working on
I was discussing Detour with a couple of other guys IRL,
Specifically about ATP's tie-in with them.
It removes all the risk from the promoter, essentially, you have your money up front, and if you can't cover any future costs then the gig doesn't go ahead, with no (or little to no), money lost.
I can see a lot of shows failing to get off the ground (not everyone who would go to a gig is going to sign up on Detour), and there's an issue to be addressed re. other gigs on the same tour, but if bands, booking agents and promotors know that all costs have been covered before a flight has even been booked, it's great.
Always buy in advance if I can.
It costs me 27 quid (19 at weekends) to travel to London, which is the main place I go to for gigs, so I like to know I'll actually get in rather than chancing it. Plus, the apathy thing of 'if I haven't got a ticket I won't bother going.'
Stuff like Hitchin or Bedford I pay on the door.
Bedford!
That's where I put on gigs. We've got Wolf People at Esquires on the 28th March. Signed to the JAGJAGuwar label. Tickets only £7 if you buy in advance (more on the door...)!