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Still a fucking-A album yeah?
Listening to it for the first time in a few months.
My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy
by oojimaflop, 5 minutes ago 0 replies 5 minutes ago
most middle-class album
by _TheBeautifulOnes_, Yesterday at 13:1
it's one of those unrelatable records about fame.
Power > All Of The Lights > Monster might be my favourite three-track album run ever.
Can't believe i've not listened to it in so long...!
'power' starts ace but goes on way too long
'hell of a life' is great
the rest? gmph
So Appalled, that's it. gr8 beat
Lost in the World/Who will survive in America, man.
I'M SO HIGH I'M FUCKIN' NOT PLAYIN'
I am always willing to reconsider my positions however, so off the back of this thread will revisit accordingly...
Got exactly half way through it in 2010, and turned it off for the last time.
Just played it for the first time since that thanks to all your frothing, and I've got as far as Runaway. Not only do I like it this time round, I cannot identify what it was I disliked in the first place. All I can think is that I'm approaching it with a completely different mindset. Then: self-indulgent and pretentious album from a self-indulgent and pretentious rapper that I didn't like much anyway, that got 10 on Pitchfork when other rappers I liked didn't. Now: self-indulgent and pretentious album that I can detach from the personality, and therefore enjoy simply as an album.
a different track so I could get all emo without having it spoiled every time by Chris Rock.
Sick album tho
although a couple of the features really fucking suck (jay-z on monster, RZA on so appalled, rick ross on monster)
but the Rza part on 'So Appalled'? Makes the song surely. Pusha's verse is decent but everyone else on that song is pretty dull. More importantly, why does Cyhi the Prince appear on this song or indeed any song?
the cop look like Alec Baldwin
The songs are quite good though.
The first rap album I truly loved. Probably in my top ten favourite albums of all time
Still put it on every month or so and listen to it in full.
But get unnecessarily annoyed at the puney handclaps at the end of Who Will Survive in America.
I like that one about putting a pussy in a sarcophegous (sp?!) and the girl that got a swallowship. That ones pretty funny.
is the high quality of the production
Sounds like it was recorded on a Tascam 4-track in the mid-90s.
also, not sure you're both talking about the same thing when you say `production` - suspect some or both of composition and engineering as well.
but Kanye West just isn't that great of a rapper. I know that's the classic criticism of him, but it's true. That Big Boi album that came out around the same time was well better.
But then again, so was My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy.
People complain, at times, about Kanye West (and, really, EVERY rapper), saying he's not a very good rapper.
Here's my question: What is it about rap, versus rock, that makes us feel like "not that great" is a true criticism? I know full well that every person who comes to these boards listens to a decent amount of rock-type music, and I would care to guess that at least some of it features singers who sound like dying animals (Tom Waits, Bjork, Jeff Mangum, etc.), or like they aren't even really bothering to try (Stephen Malkmus, David Berman, Morrissey, etc.) I would ALSO guess that a fair amount of bands that people here love feature guitarists who are similarly so-so with their instruments.
Is mindblowing technical ability in rap THAT important? Can we settle for merely "okay" or "pretty good"?
the reason why it's okay that kanye isn't an incredible technical rapper is because he's really more of a character rapper. the reason that he's interesting to listen to is the same reason as that of waka flocka flame or lil b, they exist within a context which makes you interested in what they have to say.
if Tom Waits wrote a bunch of songs about how good he is at singing, I'd think it would be a problem. I'm not saying this is especially true of Kanye (although I'm sure I could find examples), but if you're gonna rap about how great you are then you should be able to back it up.
Of course, within the wider context of rap music you don't necessarily need to be a great rapper, but your're gonna have to have other talents like strong production, or humour or even just a good distinctive voice. If Kanye was relying solely on his 'character', I'd say he'd have a problem.
his voice aint that appealing either as a sound.
It aint about being technical, it just has to fit and there is something really awkward and forced about how he sits with his beats. Plenty of rappers are prob worse than Kanye but still make better music because they make it fit and work off the beats.
He's got the personality thing down to a tea, his lyrics and almost cringe worthy level of embbarisingly bad shit he says he pulls off so well that its endearing, his brags are well funny. But its at odds with the beats, he may as well be chatting over anything liek soem kinda free jazz beat poet or do a podcast or something.
He's got the personality thing down to a tea, his lyrics and almost cringe worthy level of embbarisingly bad shit he says he pulls off so well that its endearing, his brags are well funny.
I can see why he is where he is I just can't hack listening to much of it. If he did a podcast tho... I'd be all over it for a week or so. He's got that vibe to him where you don't know if he knows he's really goofy or not, just like Drake does. There is something really lame and cheesy about them too, Kanye comes off really goofy and really cool all at once no idea how but he makes it work. He's like the fresh prince and carlton banks rolled into one for the 2013s.
i think that's the reason i don't really regard him as an artist the way I do others... his albums always just fit right into the moment at the time .. I don't know if he has any sort of ACTUAL talent, I don't even think about him in that way. I just enjoy his whole steez. It's like he's a total gimmick but is he aware of it? is he trolling everybody?
Just 45 minutes of great chat, talking about the issues of the day with celebrity guests and industry gossip.
I love bits Aziz Ansari has about hanging out with him. He seems wonderful to talk to.
I guess I understand what Jimi is saying about not matching the beats, but when I listen to his music, I kinda ignore that. I've always found him to be a ridiculously good rapper, even if he isn't always the GREATEST rapper. I view all of the intertalk about how good he is to be little more than rap braggadocio. But, that's just me. I love his albums - even if I'm the only one who never clicked with most of The College Dropout.
but it does go the other way too - remember how much stick Meg White used to get for being a terrible drummer? Loads of people reacted that she was perfect for the band, but the argument was still made
But I see your point. I just hear it so less frequently with musicians, as opposed to rappers.
being a good rapper doesn't necessarily have anything to do with technicality - eg, stye, personality, sense of humour I like, if their voice fits with the beats, etc, counts to me
I like a lot of technically good guitar players, but others are SHIT
oh, I can't remember what my point was with this, sorry
Why does everyone seem to think this album is due for reappraisal every few months? Like everyone is expecting at some point in the future for a consensus to be reached that it's actually shit or something?
It's fucking brilliant and will continue to be fucking brilliant.
and I had sort of forgot about it. I remember when it came out people were saying it wouldn't be a classic in a few years. I wanted to check what consensus was, and get a few people listening again.
is the reason it gets as much revisiting as it does.
So far, the only thing I disagree with about that 10.0 is that it was a bit low.
doesn't hold up as an album at all
gave it a quick listen again - there's very few actively *bad* songs, but equally there's only a few that stand-out and make me think that I should listen to them more. Most of them just kinda ... exist
Plus, I'm really not a fan of that kind of huge, maximal production in rap
and how doesn't it hold up as an album?
however, if we're talking "best kanye albums"
808s will always win for me.
but interesting, I've always really loved Paranoid. One of my favourite synth tracks of his. That and Flashing Lights are brilliant.
see also: DJ PHSH ... can't wait to see what this guy comes up with when he finally starts producing shit
I think it's because as Kanye albums go ... I don't think of them as "what was the BEST WORK that he's done?" i think of it more like ... what was the most enjoyable all the way through at that time when it was released? I guess there is a bit of sentimentalism and nostalgia wrapped up in 808s. When I heard the first track "say you will" for the first time and that epic meandering of a trail for nigh on three minutes at the end ... the bass tone sounded real special in my car and i couldn't believe he was letting it go on. i just enjoyed how he seemed to completely depart from any sort of hiphop/rap/pop formula moreso than ever before.
GOD DAMN IT I'M KILLIN THIS SHIT
Sounds like poopoo which is a big knock against it. Sometimes I just want to turn it up really loud to ball out to it but it makes my ears/head hurt at those levels so I just put on UGK instead.
808s (which I don't like) is easily his most influential album. I'd say its THE most influential rap album of the last 5 years.
I always thought I was in the minority in loving that album.
Obv they are wrong in doing so, but everyone is entitled to a couple objectively wrong opinions now and then.
Lil Wayne's verse on See You In My Nightmares >>>
I think the formula works pretty well on Street Lights.
I get it, it was a bold move for his career, kinda respect that in a way. It just moves me none. no desire to really ever listen to it.
But Love Lockdown is the peak for me. Such a strange choice for 1st single; the subdued and solemn verse, the explosive and tribal chorus, the juxtaposition between the two, the simple and repetitive piano hook and singing pattern, that weird sound that comes in towards the end, the whole thing is just such a question mark. As good as his first two albums are, in my eyes this song sums up why Kanye is worthy of the acclaim he receives. Acclaim like this: http://blogs.villagevoice.com/music/2013/02/kanye_west_is_the_goat.php
Absolutely adore Runaway, Blame Game & Devil in a New Dress.
but i love so appalled so much, i dunno why it's considered the worst track
i know it's sort of ridickluss and too long but that's part of the charm for me
WHAT'S WORSE, THE PAIN OR THE HANGOVERRRRRR
I'm not kidding in the slightest. Astonishing achievement.
When you find yourself nearly shedding a tear for Kanye "IMMA STOP YOU THERE" West, you know that he's done something remarkable.
Keep listening to it expecting to fall out of love with it; or find it less amazing. Keep getting more obsessed. Remarkable.
Interesting though, how it does seem to have become one of the real divisive records of the last decade or so...
What the fuck is wrong with the British public?
just spent the past 10 minutes looking at Kanye's chart positions. MBDTF was the lowest-charting Kanye album in the UK peaking at 16, while 808s peaked at 11.
Lots of factors involved here, but I think if Kanye had followed Graduation with MBDTF it would be a totally different story. This makes 808s an even bolder move really, to follow up his most commercially successful album with what was a pretty risky artistic diversion. Obviously it was never going to fail at that point so perhaps the time was right to experiment, but you have to respect him for doing so. Not many others in his position would.
Always is with hip-hop and chart standings
Some good debates.
No-one ranked the Ye albums yet? That's what we do on music forums, right? Well OK then.
Late Registration (production is too good) > 808s (only started appreciating this in the last year or so) > College Dropout (for nostalgia, mainly) > MBDTF >-----------------> Graduation (This would be way lower if it wasn't for Flashing Lights and Can't Tell Me Nothing)> Watch The Throne (counting this)
already but whatever here is how it stands as of today:
College Dropout - Late Registration > Graduation >> MBDTF >>>> 808
but I will say that 'Dark Fantasy' is a realllly shit opener on a record that is killer the rest of the way through.
Maybe a little long though.
that are guaranteed to get heavy discussion on DiS.
I really don't like that song, though! it's just...annoying. the falsetto multitracked vocals in the hook make me cringe, and the beat is pretty generic.
aaaaanyway... yeah. it's like there's a wider group of posters who only chip in when they see something about those artists, or when someone starts one of those 'name something or other that's something' type threads. you know the ones, they seem to reappear as if posted by some generic DiS thread generator bot.
but it drops with grace. Ye's first two verses are kinda classic Kanye type of verses, Running the gauntlet between incredible and cringeworthy like no one else can.