Tags: funny / timely / exhilarating / class war
the rowing competition to School House by a stroke in 1995.
He went to my school. Comprehensive.
the horror the horror.
then transferred to a Science College in Leytonstone. He used to have dreads. Massive nu-metal fan.
an old lanconian?
I thought he'd stopped doing stuff like that and had gone all 'sensitive'.
I think it's great.
these lyrics are a lot, lot better than 90% of indie/rock bands attempts at politics.
but it's hardly Pills & Soap.
Let's not make this a thread about them.
It makes you somehow more indie
shortly before their mouths form a very wavy line.
What did that chief say / something about the Kaiser / Kids on the street never miss a beat / never miss a cheap thrill when it comes there way
'what do you want for tea? / I want cri-isps' line.
Released quite a few years before the riots, but similar background / themes.
Have there been that many other songs directly commenting on the riots?
I guess some people can see the future... or just what's right under their noses
also - skinnyman rhyming syringes with minges - genius
Here are the links, but it's worth reading the whole thing:
First time I've listened to it in ageeees.
I just meant it's a quality song.
I think one of my fave songs of his, and also relevant to the subject matter of the thread as a whole, is No Big Ting:
Is he out of jail yet?
talking about the problems with honesty for years.
I think its great though.
if this is a hit, he's pulled off a great trick getting all those new fans with the Strickland Banks thing, then going back to stuff like this.
Ill Manors is going to be a film, isn't it?
just realised there's a breakdown in it which reminds me of Daydreamer by Menswe@r.
is damn fine. Good to hear shouty and noisy in the mainstream.
I saw him at Brixton Windmill in about 2005 supporting Brakes, strangely.
Back then it was just him and an acoustic guitar and it was shiiiiiittt. This is really good though.
Brakes/Metronomy/Plan B, right? Hell of a *before they were famous* bill.
first song I've done that with this year.
"For every person that uses the word chav or is derogatory towards someone who is less educated than them, there is a less educated person ready to embrace it". Most succinct explanation of the class war I have heard.
"If you don't live in that environment, you don't have to address it
However I couldn't get my head around him claiming you needed money to be educated. Isn't that what our free schooling system is for?
and which has just had extra support for the neediest cut for anything beyond the basic level.
oh, and our university system that now loads people up with debt for the majority of their adult life, in a country with an economy that suffers from a massive geographic imbalance towards a region where the average price of a home is edging towards half a million pounds.
I have a problem with how that debt is allocated and when it goes towards - the majority on fees and a minority towards living expenses. living on a student loan is incredibly hard if you don't have either parental support or work part time. i actually have no real problem with my university debt (£3600 a year living, £1800 a year fees, so just over £20k when I graduate), I have a problem that I don't have enough to live on and somehow have to balance working part time with a course that expects 40hrs a week of me.
I myself didn't do a degree (I did a year course for my own pleasure, with my own money) so I don't see going to uni a must. Of course it does depend on what you want to do with your life. I was lucky enough to be raised with computers in every corner of the house so I got my job through that.
i had a well paid (but dead dull) admin job before this, but i wouldn't get anywhere in what i want to do without a degree, and that's true of a lot of careers.
so infantile that no real qualification had been invented for it. I'm sitting in a room with some high end recruitment consultants that earn shit loads and not one of them is has relevant degree...but then if you want to be a scientist you'd HAVE to get a degree.
when my granda died he left me some money, which is what I'm using for uni- if I didn't have that I'd have to have a job or live in some sort of £30 a week 20 bed student hell hole and survive on microchips.
However the debt thing doesn't bother me that much- while I agree in principle that higher education should be entirely free, what the raising in university fees amounts to is middle class kids earning LESS money in the future. It's not a debt in the sense that the bailiffs are gonna come round and take your telly. It means that your future earnings will be less. Which I still don't agree with, but ultimately I'm not really that arsed if some kid from the home counties has to shop at Morrissons rather than Waitrose in ten years time. Definitely not worth rioting about.
is one of the most endearingly hilarious things about this site. How you manage to shoehorn it into *so many* music thread posts is almost deserving of applause...
Angry, shouty, some cracking lines, some silly lines, what's not to like?
rather enjoyed it. hmmm interesting
That means he can't write songs about anything else now. I forgot.
Both in terms of his music and his acting/directing career in the future.
He's clearly a very smart and talented guy. I believe he's got something in the league of This Is England in him.
Bulmers No17, a new cider that contains crushed red berries cut with a shot of lime is quite refreshing and in no way shit.
He sells innovative refreshing cider.
Hope you got paid for this.
?"don't gimme that i'll lose my temper, who closed down the community centre?"
thought he was earning a mint ripping off Michael Buble?
Both the interview on 1xtra (posted above) and the statement on his website about the track are excellent
i fucking enjoyed about half of his last album
Political music is missing in this country and he's making a good point backed up with a wicked sample. I notice it's on the radio 1 A playlist so it seems like the gameplan of getting attention with his last album for a platform to say what he really wants is paying off. I'm behind the guy. And that interview posted up there ^ is incredible.
Like, I just wanna actually kill The King Blues, bunch of cunts, but this is well meaning and doesn't come across as 6th form-ish.
so it's shit in that sense, and it's not exactly great political lyricism, just the usual pointing out of the obvious with exaggerated angst, but as El_Goodo says below, it's nowhere near as bad as the Enemy/Hard-Fi/Enter Shakari/Reverend and the Makers.
So just cos it's not as bad as it could have been doesn't mean it's great, but all the same, good on him!
they think it's great.
It's not. Average at best. Very cringey. 6th Form politics. etc. etc. etc.
We need to raise our standards with regards to political songwriting.
because it hasn't.
I don't really get behind political stuff generally. I don't think it's massively 6th Form because (to me) 6th Form politics is all about being very middle-to-upper-class and getting all concerned about 'issues' and believing you're the first person to see those. There's both an aspect of naiveté and of pretension to that.
This doesn't have any of that. Are the lyrics a bit fucking obvious at times? Yeah I guess they are: but what they're addressing is a bit big and obvious and in terms of context, as a song specifically about the issue for a film specifically about he issue with a video specifically to make that point I'm not sure you can be any other way about it.
You can make clever political statements with incredible lyrical prose but the problem there tends to be people understanding what you're saying without you being obvious, which requires a lot more faith from them.
It's not the Manics...but better than The Enemy or Hard-Fi.
Popular enough to make many millions think and probably put Shostakovich back in the top 10 since that 2 Unlimited remix track back in 92, ARF!
Really it was detached political theory soundbites for sixth-formers.
When you take that political theory you've cleverly worked out for yourself and gone beyond, put it in a ditty rock song, got half the country singing along and buying the record then we can talk about the Manics not doing politics.
And I don't buy that
a) they worked out political theories for themselves. Hadn't two of them started politics degrees?
b) they put the theories in songs. It was soundbites. The attitude was amazing but I can't think of any Manics songs that actually really convey political thought in a way that's interesting and relevant to people's lives.
With the exception of a rubbish song about a documentary about Hillsborough, the Manics weren't (aren't?) a political band. Lots of posturing and sloganeering, not much else.
I mean if you take, to pluck a random song out of the ether, Kevin Carter. There's a really interesting story behind it if you do the research but there's no way in Hell you'd suss it out from the song and it doesn't make any comment on it beyond
people who have actually listened to their lyrics but presumably just think the music's good enough even though the words are misguided, or whatever such people think about good sentiment.
The Manics didn't really make political statements in songs, so much as make allusions to theories and slogans.
I only meant that it's wrong to assume that people don't necessarily engage with that sort of stuff just because they don't seem to get politically motivated by it. Or possibly that wasn't what you were meaning in any case. Sorry.
I'm just saying I don't think most Manics songs are overtly political enough for people to have to make a decision on whether to engage or not.
But then they challenged themselves by trying to convey politics through pop / rock songs so it's hard to get a whole political theory into verse - chorus - verse.
You're right in that they just had slogans, quotes and allusions to political subjects and that the listener had the option whether to follow up on it or not. Perhaps that subtle approach is more successful as a lot of time people get turned off by having an opinion rammed down their throat in a song. It's not fair to say no-one engaged with their politics because I did, maybe you did and there's a few others of us who read the books and did the research after it being referenced by the Manics. I don't really look to a pop song to completely educate me, just point me in the right direction.
The Manics got asked a lot in the early days whether anyone was picking up on the political stuff and they admitted it was probably futile but it was at the core of what they were trying to achieve - getting popular to spread their thoughts. They may have failed although they said they'd be happy if they turned just one person on to the same writers and theorists as them.
This is where the string sample comes from (although ultimately it's from Shostakovich). Equally great video, in a different way:
Anyway, I've listened to this a few more times, having been slightly unimpressed but intrigued after the first lesson. It's pretty damn good, but the embarrassing middle-8 bit is stopping it from being a stone cold classic. Oh well.
Yeah, that's a weak spot. I still love this though.
Hopefully OB will be in the film.
Kind of drags the whole thing down and makes it seem a lot less sharp/clever when it could have been the bit to underline the whole song.
but also because I don't buy his act, and by "act" I mean his current or previous ones.
See KiK's post above for the perfect summation.
... I'm certainly not the biggest fan. But by saying you don't buy his act, you seem to be questioning his motives and how genuine he is about what he's doing. Am I right?
Saying 'I don't buy his act' is pretty much the same as saying you're not convinced Johnny Depp was really ever a pirate.
Have you read this incidentally? Definitely one of the more intelligent and insightful things anyone's said about the riots.
Having read that, listened to the song and worked on employment projects in the past working with disaffected council estate kids, I'd say that, if he is a fake, he's a fake who's put in enough research to know what he's talking about. I've never been a fan of Plan B's at all in the past but this has really impressed me.
and I only got to paragraph 2 then started to fall asleep.
"Im just bringing it back to the forefront.." zzzz... any old hack can do that. A truly good artist might actually have something to say as well.
Nailed it. Laughing so hard at this.
not sure its 100% applicable, although Im too stupid to say why currently..let me sleep on this....
... that he's using social unrest and the riots to make a quick buck, but that seems really cynical.
I just think that he's got nothing to say in his music.
Don't get me wrong - this time last week I wouldn't have believed there was any chance I'd be sticking up for Plan B in a music discussion bu I honestly think the only way you can listen to that song and think he's got nothing to say (rather than disagreeing with what he does say) is either if you're listening with the intention of disparaging before giving it a chance or if your simply not familiar with the issues facing kids of certain social backgrounds today. Which is fair enough if you aren't, and that's in no way a criticism (the same would have applied to me a few years ago) but, trust me, if you think he's got nothing to say then you're very, very wrong.
list his most insightful lyrics please.
I've liked a fair amount of Plan B stuff I've heard.
other than that, it's better than his fucking Simply Red shit, innit. 6/10
this is awful.
listen to some ruff sqwad ffs
until someone can conclusively state that it does anything Jehst can do in his sleep
Which I don't think Jehst could do xxx
in its own Big Unsubtle Social Commentary way
Should I use the fact that I grew up on a nasty council estate (200+ riot-related arrests there, according to some local journalist) in one of the UK's poorest boroughs to troll all the born-middle class types who like this song/video? Don't think I can be bothered, tbh.
Just seems redundant now. Besides, I quite like Ben Drew. Not necessarily Plan B, either as Plan B or Strickland Banks, but he seems a decent, intelligent enough guy.
One thing I did wonder about when listening to his BBC Radio interview is why he seemingly discounted the ability of the (loosely) middle class to listen to urban music and not take anything away from it. Surely, 50 year old investment bankers in Berkhamsted might baulk at his music, but their 13-30 year old children will happily get vicarious thrills from it without absorbing any of the messages in it. And what will they grow up to be?
I can see myself going on a rant if I heard a Jack Whitehall-ite say '...have you heard that new Plan B track ya? It's dope yar'.
the lyrics in this are truly embarrassing and a reminder that as an angry rapper, he wasn't much cop either.
But there's something about Plan B which makes me not hate him, even though I find his music by and large interminable. Don't think he's a great actor either.
It's about time someone in the mainstream is actually talking about what's going on right now. To me, it feels like a really important single. I hope it goes to number one and gets shitloads of airplay.
where he said he disagreed with the murder of Damilola Taylor?
good to hear
Damilola Taylor was 10 years old when he lost his life. He was stabbed by a kid who was maybe only five or six years older than him. This is a child killing another child. I didn't agree with that. I didn't agree with the mentality that a lot of these kids were going round with, but I understood why they were going round with it. I understood that they were from broken families. They had parents who were probably alcoholics, drug addicts, dysfunctional, who raised them up to believe they could never make anything of themselves because they as parents never made anything of themselves.
The conformism of his outlook is brilliantly captured in his frequent borrowing from the lexicon of government-speak, such as when he told Radio 1 that he gave ‘Ill Manors’ a ‘visceral energy’ because he wants it to be like ‘those horrible pictures we see on cigarette packets that are designed to shock us into being aware of our actions’. In the past, pop rebels self-consciously smoked and even sang hymns to ‘Cigarettes and Alcohol’ - Plan B apes officialdom’s anti-smoking propaganda in an effort to ‘raise awareness’ about the need to respect youth.
I don't think this song is the best thing he's ever done but I do like elements of it and the video as he states on his website is satire in a attempt to get people thinking about the issues. This quote rings true...
'If you're born into a family that’s has enough money to educate you properly, you are privileged. You’re not better than anyone else you’re just lucky. Certain sectors of middle England, not all of them, but the ignorant ones need to wake up and realise that ...and stop ridiculing the poor and less fortunate. That is what this song is about. '
I'm not educated or smart enough to know the answers to the big questions which affect our society but I'd rather hear someone like Plan B or anyone else at least make an attempt to perhaps get people to question things around them.
I understand that Plan B is hardly going to appeal to many on DIS but the man is no idiot. I've seen him on Newsnight in the past talking about issues which affect young people and it was clear it was something close to his heart and something he knows about.
that bit in the Spiked link about self conscious smoking...
If Ill Manors is a success maybe 'our' Ben can buy himself a private audience with Dave and call him a cunt to his face.
those nunchucks are gay and light
So clearly the record buying public has taken note of the wider conscious.
Number one: Chris Brown.
Nicks the strings, gets rid of Plan B and the shit breakbeats adds some hard grime ones and a killer MC, sounds way better.
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