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Cheap Trick
The Dears
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are you dizzy blud!?
Interesting
Depends on the gig though, as you already know, you lovable scamp.
£4 for some touring american band at the Old Blue Last, clearly too cheap. £40 for Arcade Fire at the O2 clearly too expensive.
solid summary
seriously tho
so mean like
just in general they are too cheap?
because we all stream and download music for next to nothing we ought to pay more for gigs cheap?
its much harder for bands to earn any sort of living so they should get more from live shows cheap?
I think what Kitchmo says
Yeah, to be more specific i mean
"underground"/punk/indie/metal gigs
Totally insane that i'm paying the same amount to see that sort of thing as i was in 1998
I think I know what you mean
"underground"/punk/indie/metal gigs should be around £10, so the bands can at least make some money! But no one is willing to pay more than £5 maybe £6 - at a stretch - to see small time bands.
Which is ironic - everyone always got £150+ to go to festivals and see mostly shit bands with shit sound!
Inflation vs more supply
makes perfect sense
Fuck Off!
Troll
i'm serious
tho that's not mutually exclusive I admit.
try a proper response
you look like far more like a troll here
Something's only underpriced if it sells out with more people wanting tickets.
But yeah, people seem to think that bands make lots of money touring and playing gigs, but they're wrong, especially if they use it as a justification for illegal dowloading. Only the very biggest artists make decent money from touring, seeing physical sales as a loss-leader, rather than the other way around.
When we put on shows there are no margins - it's all about covering costs and, as the promoter, being prepared to take the risk of a show selling poorly or you getting your figures wrong. The problem is that we could increase the prices, but it's a trade off with how many people you think you'll get through the door. We've had very few gigs where the tickets were over £10 as I think that there's a psychological barrier if your gig pushes through that barrier, but costs have increased (especially for venue hire) and we're having to put on shows for £8 that we might have put on for £6 a couple of years ago.
One of the biggest factors affecting smaller gigs (like ours) is that in Europe, a lot of venues, promotors, label tours etc. are subsidised, removing a huge portion of the risk. It's very hard to compete with that.
I think for smaller bands, even those you've heard of, demand is super elastic
Also as the other bits of the night get hit by inflation; travel costs and beer, the gig needs to stay cheap or people can't afford it.
Once you're huge you can charge what you like and still know that you'll sell out.
I hate gigs that leave you with too much loose change
£5 or £10 is fine.
It's also a lot easier when dealing with the float.
We should start a Poundland-style policy of NOTES ONLY gigs.
Went to a gig once where they charged £4.99
The guy on the door had a big jar with pennies handy.
Yes
More bands should do that cruise thing weezer did so only fans with a few hundred quid to spare can attend.
Cementimental cruise 2016
hey man!!!
that was just meant to be a load of fun!!!
it's only a one off so it doesn't matter!!!
i'm Superintendent Cheerful how dare you make a negative comment against such a FUN idea!!!
I think it should be a more flexible approach than that.
say £5 flat starting cost per ticket for the gig for acts with no releases, with an additional £5 added per album (with a possible higher rate for those acts who have gold or platinum selling albums, say a tenner per album for those), with a cap at £25 (or a cap at £40 for those more successful/popular/populist) acts.
if, in this 'big society' climate,
people shouldn't be expected to be paid for looking after the sick or elderly or homeless, why should bands expect to make any money for doing something they presumably enjoy?
why presume that?
He thinks he's in a social board politics thread
There are an awful lot of free gigs these days
Free festivals too.
And all those all-you-can-eat events make a lot of gigs feel 'like' free.
Meanwhile, from my experience, very few bands below Shepherd's Bush Empire level are breaking even on the costs of touring (some might be making a bit if they're doing clubnights or don't have much of a set-up, and aren't travelling far, but most have invested far more in touring than they're earning back). There are exceptions, like lo-fi bands who broke quite quickly and one dude and a laptop kinda things...
Starting to get wary of free gigs
DHP have started doing a ton of them in Manchester, putting shows on where you get in free if you 'like' their facebook page. Great in the short term for music goers and bands who'll get to play in a room full of people.
But they're putting on shows I'd probably have to charge £5/6 minimum for to cover costs, completely undercutting all the DIY promoters in the area which ain't that great. In the long run less promoters > less variety > stagnant live scene.
i hope they dont do the same to manchester as they have to nottingham
Do they really undercut other promoters though?
I'm sure they'll be a few DiS oddballs who'll disagree, but no-one actually 'shops around' for gigs do they? If a band you like is playing, you go and see them (unless you're busy maybe), you don't say 'I'm going to a gig next Wednesday' and then scour the listings for the cheapest one.
Maybe if TWO bands you like equally are playing on the same night then price might be one of the factors you take into account, but if that's a recurring problem then it hardly suggests a stagnant live scene.
It depends.
If you put on a series of gigs on, say, a Friday night, for free, you start to hoover up that market and bands would rather play to packed venues than empty ones.
In order to cover the cost of (maybe) reduced merchandise sales and buzz, a promoter may have to start increasing their guarrantees in order to win gigs.
It sounds like they're able to afford to put on free shows because they either own the venue or have a special deal with it. Either way, it'll be the smaller promoters who find themselves squeezed by such an arrangement.
Hmmm. I don't see it myself, it's a bit too complex a market to be able to predict like that
Like I said up there, ticket price is a tiny factor in people's decision making process when choosing a gig to go to.
I agree with your latter point,
but look at, say, the Old Blue Last at a weekend - it's rammed with people who wouldn't have gone up there had it been charging the £6/£7 entry some of the acts could justify.
Hmmm. Okay. I suppose my point is:
so? These are small capacity venues, it's not like some free-of-charge enormodome is hoovering up toilet scene audiences.
unfortunately though there are more bands...
than the music economy could ever rationally justify...so the majority of musicians are just gonna have to accept the fact that the will never make any (or perhaps lose) money from indulging in their passion - like all us other suckers who pay to pursue the things we love.
This is a fair point.
In an era where production, distribution and promotion of your own music is significantly easier than it has ever been, there will be a tipping point in the market in terms of the numbers of available products available for the consumer.
As a consumer, rather than a producer, of music, I can only justify spending so much on music/gigs/clubs and promoters and musicians know that this is the case for the majority of people, hence there's a 'price war' going on in order to pull in more custom.
Market saturation.
^and that's what happens when you try to multi-task one too many things at the one time.
I raised
My ticket prices by a couple of quid in the last year of doing my shows. Was charging 7/8 adv 9/10 door for more expensive shows. Not worth it doing so much cheaper so hard to break even.
Mind you didn't really help!
The music economy rationally justifies it
by making gigs sufficiently cheap
exactly...
GET REAL
You go see a band- they are entertaining you. You pay for that.
This idea that 'it's their hobby' is complete horse wank and a terrible excuse for refusing to pay more than the price of a cup of coffee foe an entire night of music.
wat
I THINK HE TOLD YOU TO GET REAL
Sue them
It is the only fair response.
that costs extra
Your point about 'free' concerts being a late capitalist loss-leading abomination
is well taken, though I'm not sure about the dichotomy of THEY/YOU; to me, it follows from that that the only justification for artistic endeavour is putting food on the table.
If I'm honest, I'm quite scared to hear about the problems the poster above is experiencing regarding being undercut by 'free' concerts. Only heard of them before where free was a fair price. I had a lot of faith in live performances helping to support artists; whatever the ethics of file sharing, the mechanics of a live performance mean that each person going has to pay.
yeah...thats all well and good...
but it doesn't deal with the oversaturation of bands currently around. i.e. There are so many hours in the week, dollars in the bank to be spent on paying to listen to everyones music. Also many of these band would never have surfaced were it not through the easy production/self promotion of the modern technologies. In short - you live by the sword, you die by the sword.
Exactly
Whilst one would hope that technology makes it possible for artists to build a fanbase big enough to put on concerts that make a decent amount of cash, you're not entitled to a living because you stand on a stage and play popular music.
The problem, I think is speculation and the subsequent distortions of value: bands being forced to play for free so that one day they might get a piece of the £100 a ticket pie.
It is their hobby though
I often wish that London gigs were more expensive, that way maybe
you wouldn't get disinterested cunts chatting about their tedious lives throughout the set.
Then again, a fairer way of achieving similar results would be to slash guest lists.
*slash their throats
Festival prices do seem to have risen faster
than gig prices over the last 10 years.
What about when I go see a band and they're not entertaining me?
Then choose better, you don't expect new cars to be cheap in case you don't like it later.
So
Because you can't make your mind up based on the copious quantity of free music in the internet a band deserves to fork out for the pleasure of playing to you?
*entire career
Jay Z's
Rubbish.
That isn't how live music works at all.
You pay £15 to see a stand up comic whether you find the jokes funny or not.
But you're allowed to heckle stand ups if they're shit
People get really pissy when you boo bands for being shit.
But you can also see several stand up comics in a comedy club for about a fiver
Just like you'll pay £15 to see a more established band. There's no difference between music and comedy in respect to gig pricing.
there is
when the comedians are doing their work-in-progress shows and you can see daniel kitson for £2.
that's what bands should do when they play new material. i reckon.
(not really.)
...bands still do 'warm-up' shows
or fan-club shows though don't they?
[NB I have no idea]
Didn't Danananaykroyd do something like that?
where they advertised a gig as all new material?
Even better example then.
Most London venues a pint is nearly as much or more than I've paid to see the bands
that's a given
unless it's tuborg.
Any other popular form of evening's entertainment outside your house costs at least 3 times as much to get in as your average small/middle sized gigs and nobody bats an eyelid
exactly
films cost 7 or 8 quid, surely gigs should be more than this?
Where the fuck do you people live
with these £4 gigs and £8 films?
london?
I think that says more about the ludicrous price of films than that of gigs.
maybe the truth is....
SOMEWHERE IN TEH MIDDLE
#southparklibertarian
true,
tom cruise get paid 20 million for what exactly?
Money begets money etc. etc.
An accurate comparison with Tom Cruise would be someone like Madonna...
... and she charges shedloads for her gigs. Basically more mainstream stuff costs more. But if you want to see a night of arty Russian cinema, then chances are that will be shown for a much more reasonable amount, e.g. £4 in some student cinema club. So, the same as a DIY gig night.
popular music costs three times as much
it's going to indulge your friend's shit band that's cheap.
Yes they should.
I estimate the average cost of playing a show (not including food and board) to be £50 per band who aren't on tour.
A lot more if you have to travel for over an hour.
Good luck seeing any of that from a £3 OTD gig.
Playing devil's advocate
maybe, then, bands who are touring and can work a show into a string of others can create a more profitable business model.
*gasps*
wait a minute: it's almost as if bands who are serious about being pro, as opposed to telling everyone they are and playing the odd one-off show but spending hours on making their website look great, should simply be doing stints of touring.
I'll put out a memo on NME.com don't worry.
God, you're like the kid at school who reminds the teacher to give you homework.
What
You want to take pictures of me naked and give them to your 'like minded friends'?
Use the reply button please, so we know who the fuck you're talking to.
it was an offer open to all DiS posters i think
Thank you!
Comes across as some mental in the corner ranting at everyone.
I really love it when people don't figure it out
I can only imagine that they sit, perplexed, and wonder why our posts appear underneath what we're replying to, and their's don't.
....... what?
Come to Australia
Fifty bucks (£25ish) a show is the norm. That's how much The Pains of Being Pure at Heart cost next month in Melbourne. During their last visit eight years ago, Radiohead charged $130. People like Rihanna can ask between $140 and $160 for a night.
Gigs are more valuable things in Australia though
because it's a cultural fucking desert.
buy a t shirt if you feel bad
Cheap gigs are killing music
I'm certainly going to agree with you when i'm scraping my savings to see Radiohead play the O2 in later this year
the price of radiohead gigs should be considered a tax on
[insert indier-than-thou jibe here]
no they are not
nothing bands with zero reach demand stupid fees
Sorry but this is crap...
... in a time of austerity (yeah I said that) charging people lots for a gig alienates a large portion of your audience. The more underground/DIY the music the less money you'd imagine the audience to have spare (maybe it's just me but people never look flush at the gigs I go to).
I don't know, I'm on the dole at the minute. Apparently so are lots of other young people at the minute. Young people go to gigs. Know you're market.
/sigh * your market
but i'm not market.
See above
the bands are on the dole too
I know...
... I've been in a few in Manchester for the past few years. We rarely got paid, other than in free beer (or petrol money if it was outside our town). But then we didn't expect to; it was about having fun and playing to people. If you're looking to make a living don't be in a DIY band. I once heard Aidan Moffat telling an anecdote about this sort of thing, the punchline being "but as my old friend Malcolm says 'kudos don't pay the bills'".
Most small bands in small venues will be shit though.
This needs to be taken into consideration when pricing.
If you spend £4 or £5 to see 3 or 4 great bands that's outstanding value. £4 or £5 to see a small band you like do half an hour set whilst being fucked over by a soundman who doesn't really get the mix sandwiched on the bill with a bunch of bands who are either rubbish or just don't work with the other bands on the bill is probably about right.
but the price of drinks you had while listening to them and the transport you used to get there has risen dramatically since the mid 90's
so why are you acting like it's a law of nature that the gig still costs £4?
Or has the quality of small-time live music dropped in inverse proportion to inflation?
The cost of producing alcohol and operating transport has increased since the 90s (in nominal terms at least)
Number of people producing small time music has probably increased, increasing supply and thus decreasing the cost.
Yes, i was about to write a similar reply to this
not everything has to move in line with inflation. CDs now cost *less* than they did in the mid 90s, although admittedly for very different reasons than why gigs may still cost the same.
The cost of cruise gigs has increased though
and long may that continue
It's not a law of nature. It's economics.
Charge more than £5 or £6 and it's a bugger to get people to come.
You shouldn't put on gigs then
I'm going to a free one tonight!
Good bands too.
Shed 7
Shed 7?
Generally I ask for £5
This is for two bands from out of town- sometimes just from the UK for a one off or a weekend of gigs, and sometimes for touring bands from Europe or America. The rest will be local bands as they don't have expenses.
I think this is about right because although charging more would theoretically pay the bands more as the proceeds all go to them after costs, a lot of the people who go to the gigs I do aren't in a position where they can afford to reguarly go to gigs that cost much more than that. I wouldn't want to discourage young kids and students from going to gigs by pricing them out of something they like, and it's makes small DIY gigs a more attractive proposition than forking out £15 for a few 'bigger' bands at the larger venues, even when punk is concerned. Also the smaller bands I put on tend to be much better. At the moment there are quite a lot of teenagers who are starting bands and going to gigs in Norwich and the fact it's something they can relatively cheaply is vital in making sure that their interest is maintained.
Whilst it's nice that some people are in a position where they can afford to support something financially that they care about, it's not the case for everyone, especially kids using their pocket money etc.
There are plenty of DIY punk bands that I think are good that I would like to see, and although gig costs seem to be similar across the country, there are already gigs I have to miss because I can't afford to go to all the ones I would like. If prices went up it would mean I go to even fewer, and I'm hardly the most hard up out of people that go to gigs and i'd feat it'd be counterproductive. As someone else said, for smaller gigs buying a shirt or some merchandise as well as paying in is probably the best way of supporting bands you think are worth supporting.
Oh and in my experience this has always resulted in me being able to cover
the bands costs. If they are reasonable- as in asking for a place to stay, something to eat and drink when they are there and then for their travel costs to be covered- it isn't a problem. Occasionally I take enough on the door that means I can go beyond this as well and I think it's a similar situation in most places in the UK where they have an established 'punk' scene although of course there are exceptions- many of them a result of shit promoters or shit bands playing the gigs.
this thread isn't much fun :(
maybe because it lacked the context of the one i ripped it off of. oh well you had to be there,
was that a context where people actually agreed with your premise?
no it was a context where people in wales freaked out about the idea of someone not drinking
and tied them up in even more illogical knots than you guys over absurd emotional notions of 'SUPPORTING THE SCENE', punks in favour of giving money to brewing industry but not bands, and other hilarious nonsense
*tied themselves
standard
THIS SPECIFIC SITUATION WHICH HAPPENS JUST RIGHT NOW TO BE THE CASE, AND WHICH IS BROADLY FAVORABLE TO ME, THE 20SOMETHING MALE INDIE MUSIC FAN, IS OOOBVIOUSLY JUST THE WAY THINGS ARE, ALWAYS HAVE BEEN AND ALWAYS WILL BE. IT'S HUMAN NATURE! :smugface:
you're the worst
at posting badly
Or:
touring bands always cost more than £4 round my way so maybe this is just London venues competing for an audience and not really "the way things are".
Depends...
on the gig really. if its a big band playing at brixton academy or something. i reckon over 20quid is a bit steep. but some smaller gigs are definatly worth it.
my original inspiration
Made much funnier than our weak attempt because we lacked the drink/straightedge/deluded "punk" ethos angle.
http://www.southwalesmassive.com/index.php?showtopic=79613