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Has 2011 been a good year for 'indie-rock'?

sean [Edit] [Delete] 96 replies 09:50, 22 November '11

I mean, I can't actually tell.

At the mainstream NME-championed end of things, the likes of Brother, Mona, etc failed to 'break through'. In fact, of the new acts that had 'success' both critically and sales wise this year, it was more the Minaj's and Nicola Robert's who triumphed (neither of whom, intriguingly, made the BBC Sound of 2011 list - although I voted Nicki). There weren't even Razorlight type 'hits' for us all to moan about (in fact, after that picture in the hat, did they actually release anything). Seems perhaps the mainstream agenda only had enough indie-rock quota for reformations. I mean, did "REAL MUSIC" saviours Kasabian even have that good a year?

At the cult-heroes level of 6Music-championed, Pitchfork-jettisoned, things like the Horrors record seemed to have disappointed people, Wild Beasts didn't really step up a level (despite becoming one of the finest live bands in the world IMHO) and apart from maybe Metronomy, there didn't seem much 'indie-rock' type things on Radio1/telly soundtracks like there was with say, the xx (are they even an 'indie rock' band?). I mean, St Vincent wasn't even on later with Jools Holland. There wasn't a National or Grizzly Bear or Beach House or Arcade Fire all up in our faces. And apart from a few weeks of Radioheadageddon and PJ Harvey, obviously (although as a huge fan, I still haven't fallen in love with that record and it seems oddly marmite-y), I can't quite work out which 'indie' acts are going to be in all the blog and 'mainstream' year-end lists. Bon Iver, really?

Meanwhile, compared to say Katy B, The Weeknd, Odd Future or SBTRKT, outside of DiS the Bright Eyes, Beirut and Low records didn't get much love (did they ever? I may have been so steeped in 'that world' previously that they felt bigger than they were. Obviously the gigs weren't small). And apart from the odd OMFG thread about Antlers, Braids, Tune-Yards and mentions of things like Youth Lagoon, these boards have increasingly been full of talk of minimalism, techno, dubstep, etc...it kinda makes you wonder whether this is an over-reaction to years of 'landfill-indie' or perhaps just that those who once woulda wielded a guitar and riffed us to tears or a pogoing state of reverie, have got other instruments/gizmos in their hands. Perhaps 'indie' will be redefined and the purism about what it 'is' will shift over the next few years to take in all this post-rnb and Austra/Laurel Halo/Factory Floor type stuffz?

I am sure I am missing some obvious examples which rubbish this argument. Maybe the past few years have been a blip. Maybe my perception says more about me and the ambient-loving niche I've tumbled into. Is it an obsession with The New in an era where everyone's obsessed with getting the latest upgrade that's part of the problem? Is there even a problem of anything more than perception? Same as it ever was? Or just maybe, there haven't been, like, yuhknow, good enough songs...?

I guess my thought for the day is this: IS INDIE-ROCK IN CRISIS?

...or do put it another way, indie are you ok, are you ok indie?

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  • p.s. Arctic Monkeys: discuss

    sean | 22 Nov '11, 09:53 | X
    • two thirds of the new Arctic Monkeys album is really, really great, I think

      And, besides the very sadly underrated Wu Lyf album (yes, it's a bit cringey, but the 5/10 it got on here was a kneejerk reaction to all the hype, I expected more from DiS really), it's the only "indie rock" album I've enjoyed this year.

      calumlynn @sean | 22 Nov '11, 11:45 | X
      • just out of curiosity

        which two thirds?

        rosalie @calumlynn | 22 Nov '11, 13:00 | X
        • best arctic monkeys record

          and one of the records of the year, i for one think they´ve got better with each album

          m0ssy99999 @rosalie | 22 Nov '11, 15:49 | X
          spiritofjazz this'd this
        • the really bright, lyrically sharp, melodic ones

          most reminiscent of the Submarine EP. So the bad ones would be All My Own Stunts, Library Pictures, Brick by Brick and Don't Sit Down, though the latter two have their moments.

          calumlynn @rosalie | 22 Nov '11, 16:11 | X
          • agree completely!

            although I'm much more tolerant of BbB and DSD since seeing them live.

            rosalie @calumlynn | 22 Nov '11, 17:58 | X
    • Newest album is really really really dull

      untrue @sean | 22 Nov '11, 16:36 | X
      • ^This

        Massive backwards step over the brilliance of Humbug.

        Icarus-Smicarus @untrue | 22 Nov '11, 19:22 | X
        • *after

          Icarus-Smicarus @Icarus-Smicarus | 22 Nov '11, 19:22 | X
  • I don't think it has been a good year for 'indie'

    I'd guess that Fleet Foxes will be the band to make most year-end lists. As Stuzza says, the genuine mainstream indie acts can't be doing badly if Kasabian have moved up to the O2 as their London venue for this tour. I think it's easy to forget that critical reception on music sites and blogs does not equal wider recognition in terms of sales or even illegal downloads, we (people who read DiS/blogs/etc) are still very much a minority of the music-consuming public. If anything, when one of 'our' bands (horrid phrase, I know) does have mainstream success it's usually one that appeals to the average middle class Guardian reader (Fleet Foxes, The National, Arcade Fire), who I think are one of the few demographics still buying CDs. I did think that Wild Beasts might have made that leap this year, but I found the album almost entirely unremarkable, to be honest. By the same token, the vast majority of people probably have very little idea who most of the electronic bands/artists even are.

    For what it's worth, genuinely good 'indie' albums of 2011:
    Bill Wells & Aidan Moffat - Everything's Getting Older
    Braids - Native Speaker
    Fleet Foxes - Helplessness Blues
    King Creosote & Jon Hopkins - Diamond Mine
    Okkervil River - I Am Very Far
    Wilco - The Whole Love

    friendofthenight | 22 Nov '11, 11:43 | X
  • if i were to be really reductive and boil it down to 'guitars' vs 'electronic'

    i'd say that 'electronic' has easily edged into pole position.

    fine by me. (especially if the added bonus is that the seemingly endless stream of supermarket indie is gonna be subdued for at least a few years to come.)

    TheWza | 22 Nov '11, 10:12 | X
    • cycles not recycled

      i always had a vague idea of doing a column like that, as i kinda hated how everyone treated retro-rock as authentic, when it just seemed like karaoke to me. same old cogs, driving the same old cogs, rather than switching from analog to digital.
      i mostly just didn't like The Datsuns, White Stripes, etc as it was more like a re-enactment than actual music...
      viva les electrocutions!

      sean @TheWza | 22 Nov '11, 10:18 | X
  • Well people still love indie rock used as a loose term

    But if you were to create a related best of 2011 thread...it wouldn't be half as interesting as the electronic one. I am implying that indie rock records have less tendency to creep up on people, giving less potential for recommendations from those in the underground circle, hence creating the impression of an uninteresting scene. Nonetheless, Antlers, St vincent, Kurt Vile, Atlas Sound, Destroyer...will all be in around the best of 2011 overall lists.

    wonton | 22 Nov '11, 10:18 | X
    • indeed

      i started this thread instead of the best indie-rock albums of the year (feel free to include more of them tho!)

      sean @wonton | 22 Nov '11, 10:20 | X
    • Adding War on Drugs at Stuzza's request (is this a real list?)

      Low, Wild Beasts, Still Corners, Flet Foxes, Bon Iver, Braids, Wico, Fucked Up, Girls.

      wonton @wonton | 22 Nov '11, 11:38 | X
      • And Okkervil River

        who made one of the albums of the year

        wonton @wonton | 22 Nov '11, 11:45 | X
        Stuzza this'd this
  • Well you might say Antlers are this year's National

    mightn't you, in that kind of way, if you like saying such things.

    And you might note that there are still really hugely successful bands that "we" all hate but which might be considered "indie" by some people, like Coldplay and Snow Patrol.

    And Kasabian are playing the O2 at NYE so they're obviously doing alright.

    And there have been pretty good showings by Noah and the Whale and Metronomy (as you said) and Noel Gallagher (arguably) and the Vaccines are doing okay. And the Wombats still get a ton of radio play. I am constantly amazed how bands like Noah are playing the Royal Albert Hall - they don't seem big enough to me but I guess actually they are.

    I sort of know what you mean but it would be a push to think that suddenly everything's gone electronic and not indie. And at least half of your tumblr top ten are "indie"... and the term could be used to include bands like Radiohead who are bridging the two camps...

    And anyway add War on Drugs to the list of amazing "indie" albums of the year please.

    Stuzza | 22 Nov '11, 11:07 | X
    • I really don't get people comparing The Antlers with The National

      In terms of mainstream success. Burst Apart reach no. 167 in the charts compared to High Violet reaching No. 5. There's really no comparison there.

      AndyWoodhouse @Stuzza | 24 Nov '11, 20:39 | X
  • IS INDIE MUSIC KILLING MUSIC

    shadyadie | 22 Nov '11, 11:17 | X
    bulletboy this'd this
  • It's almost as if certain trends in music

    are popular for a bit, then gradually stop being popular (for a bit) whilst a different type of music becomes popular for a bit. Thanks for drawing our attention to this sean, preesh.

    Royter-Hatfood | 22 Nov '11, 11:26 | X
    • As retaliations to things written for reaction go, this was quite polite for you. Starting to wonder if you're Peter Popjustice in disguise.

      sean @Royter-Hatfood | 22 Nov '11, 12:29 | X
      nicolastheadept this'd this
  • That Mazes album is fun mind

    the only decent "British band pretending to be Pavement" album in ages, even their faux American accents and "we're such slackers, dude" shtick didn't put me off the ace tunes.

    calumlynn | 22 Nov '11, 11:48 | X
    JaguarPirate and noise_annoys this'd this
    • cenetaph rules.

      that one about JFK is fucking wank though

      politelydeclined @calumlynn | 22 Nov '11, 21:12 | X
  • Epic OP!

    bulletboy | 22 Nov '11, 12:09 | X
  • Am I the only one who's in love with Still Life by The Horrors

    to the point where I'll forgive the rest of the record for not quite living up to expectations? Do people here not like it because it has very straight forward lyrics? Kinda polished and dreamy production compared to anything from Primary Colours?

    Antelope | 22 Nov '11, 12:19 | X
    • I really like it

      and thought it was generally well received?

      avl06 @Antelope | 22 Nov '11, 12:27 | X
      • It was initially

        but I get the feeling that websites, DiS in particular, have kind of dismissed it now. I'm not sure if it's because it has been a couple months and the hype has settled down or if it's because it doesn't have the lasting appeal of Primary Colours. Sean makes a point of saying it was disappointing, but like you I really like it. They probably just need to release a couple of singles from it.

        Antelope @avl06 | 22 Nov '11, 12:41 | X
        • it was in a few of our staff members lps of the year

          in fact , i think dom gourlay named it his album of the year.
          but i couldn't get into it at all and after a few days of 'ooooh, yeah, simple minds' it isn't something i've noticed people OMFG-ing about...but maybe I just filtered it out?

          sean @Antelope | 22 Nov '11, 13:33 | X
          domgourlay this'd this
      • Best Horrors album in my opinion

        not enough depth for me to LOVE, but I think it's really great and much stronger than Primary Colours

        calumlynn @avl06 | 22 Nov '11, 16:13 | X
    • It's the best song they've ever written in my opinion. Also their best record to date, undoubtedly.

      Insynctus @Antelope | 22 Nov '11, 16:29 | X
  • fix

    sorry, some weird bug with the site today.

    sean | 22 Nov '11, 13:03 | X
    • it's been a long day!

      pieces_of_reece @sean | 22 Nov '11, 13:08 | X
  • tl;dr

    but no. Although to be fair, there hasn't been a good year for 'indie rock' in about a decade.

    Zapsta | 22 Nov '11, 13:23 | X
  • maybe not a crisis, but it definitely feels like a bum year/quiet year

    a few i've liked well enough, namely chad van gaalen, asobi seksu, beirut, tune-yards, cymbals eat guitars and antlers, a few really great up and comers like tiger waves, stray kites and new animal. i'd say Future islands is really solid and loving Bronze, Skeletons, Emperor X and Roommate. So there are good things out there, they are just somewhat overshadowed by a great year of electronic music.

    amps | 22 Nov '11, 13:28 | X
  • It was not bad for me

    I found some good/new bands.
    WU LYF
    Still Corners
    Widowspeak
    Snowmine
    The Rural Alberta Advantage
    Wye Oak
    ...
    But I also believe that the world urgently needs a new The Shins album.

    cronenberg | 22 Nov '11, 13:36 | X
  • Wild Beasts!

    C'mon! If they didn't step it up a level, it's cos' Two Dancers was so good. I am unable to be anywhere close to objective after falling in love with them again in Bristol on Saturday, but my God does Smother sound good right now.
    That apart, Beirut has really grown on me, and I think the LC! record will probably be quite successful.

    larrikinlloyd | 22 Nov '11, 13:40 | X
    Insynctus this'd this
  • Johnny Foreigner, The Rural Alberta Advantage and Los Campesinos! will be right up there for my albums of the year

    Antpocalypsenow | 22 Nov '11, 13:42 | X
    i_hate_rushy and Wasted_Opportunity this'd this
  • 'm no expert

    but i would propose that the tastemakers (Pitchfork, not DiS lol) are not as interested in it at the moment, so fewer "big" releases and more of an emphasis on other musics

    douchebag | 22 Nov '11, 13:59 | X
    • Not totally the case

      Atlas Sound, Tune Yards and St Vincent all got tonnes of coverage on various sites, including Pitchfork.

      There does seem to be a shorter 'interest' period with a lot of records this year, though, although I don't know why that is. People buzzed off the Horrors, Kurt Vile and Wild Beasts records, for instance, and then it seemed to fizzle out.

      iaminterested @douchebag | 22 Nov '11, 14:08 | X
  • seems to me

    that it's much the same as any of the last few years for indie. Nothing much to latch on to at all. Part of which is just that what is coming out of the indie area of music is bland, mushy stuff aimed at the Radio 6 listener type, even when it's meant to be rocky like Wavves. And that's becoming more pronounced as pitchfork's staff get older and blander. Indie's in dire need of a bit of roughness and energy getting put back into its DNA.

    awaythecrowroad | 22 Nov '11, 14:07 | X
  • its no 2008 thas fo' sure pal

    Jordan_229_2 | 22 Nov '11, 14:46 | X
    • 2009*

      I give you Hospice, Veckatimest, Bitte Orca, Dragonslayer, Two Dancers, Actor... god thats good.

      wonton @Jordan_229_2 | 22 Nov '11, 16:09 | X
  • Most current indie

    seems to be either minimalistic stuff a la XX, Warpaint etc, or beard music a la FF, Bon Iver etc. It isn't as though mainstream indie has disappeared per se, but it certainly does seem to have got quieter.

    tokek_tokek | 22 Nov '11, 14:50 | X
  • Surprised no one has mentioned the Veronica Falls record.

    I guess that would qualify as "indie" and it sits proudly in my Top 5 albums ofd this year alongside The Horrors, Wild Beasts, Craft Spells and Wu Lyf. Also The Dears record was a definite return to form I thought after a couple of poor efforts.

    I guess it comes down to what people want/expect from or define as "Indie". I don't think it's been a bad year, although as far as mainstream/radio friendly "indie" goes it probably has...

    domgourlay | 22 Nov '11, 15:43 | X
  • Mountain Goats

    thought All Eternals Deck was totally ace

    calumlynn | 22 Nov '11, 16:14 | X
    rosalie and Browno this'd this
  • Indie rock as we know it hasn't been good for years

    I think the last great "indie" record was "Whatever People Say i am...". I wouldn't class bands like The Horrors or Wild Beasts indie especially. In fact I'd say they wer eboth more pop bands these days. And I thought both "Skying" and "Smother" were fantastic records (I don't think WB will ever make a better record than "Two dancers", but "Skying" was certainly the horrors' best to date).

    But yeah I'd largely agree with you. The Atlers' certainly disappointed me with their latest, although that Wu Lyf record was probably the best "indie rock" record I've heard all year. Those are the only two "indie" records I guess I've really enjoyed though. I think a lot depends on what you class as indie though. The genre has become incredily blurred in recent years.

    Insynctus | 22 Nov '11, 16:19 | X
    • I guess what it should say is

      Slightly alternative-cum-mainstream predominantly featuring guitars

      domgourlay @Insynctus | 22 Nov '11, 16:26 | X
    • The genre is more blurred than even you think

      Smother and Skying are more pop than indie? What does that even mean?

      wonton @Insynctus | 22 Nov '11, 19:48 | X
      • Well it depends what you define pop music as...

        Well, the songs on "Smother" are essentially pop songs aren't they? Catchy and quietly epic tunes that even the band describe as "just nice pop songs." "Skying" is sort of the same kind of thing- Catchy melodies, not particularly guitar orientated, in fact not at all on some songs, and lots of sky- kissing melodies. Again, it just comes down to what people's perceptions are. In the original context "pop" is anything that's popular. But it depends on how picky you want to be, I guess.

        Insynctus @wonton | 22 Nov '11, 21:23 | X
  • I think it's down to perceptions more than anything.

    As well as the others listed above, with special shout outs to Artics, Girls and The Dears, I'd like to add to the list of indie records I've loved this year by Yuck, White Denim, Smith Westerns, Black Lips, Slow Club, Little Comets, My Morning Jacket, Frankie & The Heartstrings, Male Bonding and Joy Formidable.

    Although, if you'd asked me before I'd checked my phone I would have told you that there were no decent indie records I'd heard this year and all I'd listened to was electronics and hip-hops.

    El_Goodo | 22 Nov '11, 16:43 | X
    • Definitely agree on

      Smith Westerns and The Joy Formidable too, actually.

      domgourlay @El_Goodo | 22 Nov '11, 16:51 | X
  • No

    I liked Arctic Monkeys' album, just like the rest of their stuff. Alex Turner's EP was exceptional.

    On the whole, indie rock sucked this year. Then again, I think lots of genre's took a hit this year. Take hip-hop for example. It's not like anything as brilliant as Madvillainy or Boy in the Corner came out or even a very good album, though not a classic, like My Beautiful Dark Twisted.

    Though comparing this year's high points to last year's high points in rock n'roll, there is simply no comparison. Diamond Eyes, Contra, High Violet just to name a few.

    DirtyBurger64 | 22 Nov '11, 17:23 | X
  • I think it's just that the dubstep bores are louder

    I've loved loads of records this year, that's all that really matters to me.

    guntrip | 22 Nov '11, 17:24 | X
    • at least, off the top of my head, I struggle to think of anything I've heard that was out on Sub Pop, Matador, Secretly Canadian or Domino that was a disappointment

      so with that you've already got Handsome Furs, Cold Cave, Still Corners, Real Estate, Fucked Up, Kurt Vile, The War on Drugs, Sun Airway, Wild Beasts, Girls, Low, Male Bonding, Dum Dum Girls, Jens Lekman, Suuns, Washed Out, Cass McCombs.

      then throw in stuff on smaller labels, Oh Sees (x2), The Antlers, Atlas Sound, The Babies, Benjamin Shaw, Colleen Green, Darren Hayman (x2), Pains of Being Pure at Heart, Eleanor Friedberger, The Mountain Goats, all the crazy Flaming Lips stuff, Future Islands, Los Campesinos!, Johnny Foreigner, Mark McGuire & Trouble Books, Ducktails...

      yep, all nicely done, 2011

      guntrip @guntrip | 22 Nov '11, 17:36 | X
      • Bella Union have been killing it this year as well, generally ouside of their folky folky box

        Veronica Falls, Zun Zun Egui, Lanterns on the Lake

        Josh Pearson as well

        guntrip @guntrip | 22 Nov '11, 17:38 | X
      • You like too much

        wonton @guntrip | 22 Nov '11, 19:50 | X
        • oh no!!!!!7

          I'll try and be more cynical in future DON'T WORRY

          guntrip @wonton | 22 Nov '11, 19:53 | X
          • You've already achieved that

            just then

            wonton @guntrip | 22 Nov '11, 19:58 | X
  • Think in commercial terms

    you're underplaying the Vaccines - not only did they get lots of screen time on the Glastonbury and Reading coverage but their album was released in March and didn't leave the top 75 til October, and they're about to put out a *sixth* single from it. Also the Horrors are still building on what they can achieve, they seem to have spent the year touring slightly bigger venues each time and I reckon it might even be the NME album of the year for whatever that's worth.

    But I don't think you can tell a genre trajectory from online hip press any more. Three or four years ago you wouldn't get this playing off of Drake between commercial potential (number five, that album is at, and that can't just be because Rihanna's on one track) and blog credibility, and The Weeknd just wouldn't have happened because there was no call for R&B for people who didn't think they liked R&B. What's happened isn't so much a slow burial of indie rock as everything else being subsumed into the spaces it used to rule.

    (Oh yeah, and the Nicola Roberts album was an absolute commercial failure - charted at 17, out within a fortnight. But Joe Mount produced two tracks! Yes, and so did two members of Orson)

    simon_t | 22 Nov '11, 17:39 | X
  • no one knew who The Vaccines were at the start of the year outside us lot

    / NME types. come the end of the year and they're doing 2 x dates at the (2,000 capacity) Manchester Academy. but last time i started a thread about The Vaccines sean accused me of being from their 'street team' so less said the better. but i still like them!

    cliquester | 22 Nov '11, 17:52 | X
    politelydeclined this'd this
    • didn't mean to this this

      hate the vaccines

      politelydeclined @cliquester | 22 Nov '11, 19:28 | X
  • a few years ago

    we would have had a few Razorlight or Kasabian hits dominating the charts (shoot the runner, america, golden touch, etc), even, i dunno, The Caesars in 2002/3, but yeah, there has been a MASSIVE lack of that this year. name one hit that you could file next to those tracks.

    politelydeclined | 22 Nov '11, 18:22 | X
    • The singles chart retreat of guitar music is a different thing, I think

      Remember all those 'ROCK IS DEAD' pieces right at the start of 2011 because the year end best selling singles list was almost entirely guitar free? (http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2011/jan/10/rock-n-roll-read-last-rites) Track download culture increasingly marginalises the alternative, I think, except now there aren't even the one week mass first week sale shooting star singles to crash the top end.

      simon_t @politelydeclined | 22 Nov '11, 18:26 | X
  • Seems to me like there

    El_Goodo | 22 Nov '11, 19:12 | X
    • 's a few different questions.

      Did 2011 produce any good indie albums? I'd say yes, maybe not that many guaranteed end of year list top 10 candidates but enough good records to satisfy fans. Although I reckon indie records will make up at least 40% of most top 10 2011 lists.

      Did indie bother the mainstream all that much in 2011? Nah, The Vaccines were probably the brightest newcomers to make a splash but the mainstream has been elsewhere for years and surely the indie is happy out the limelight anyway? History shows that boys with guitars comes in and out of fashion when there's a scene or story to propel it to being cool again.

      But I don't know who's going to champion that stuff into creating a buzz around certain bands. Blogs and online places tend to revel in their diversity of musical tastes, I mean Pitchfork with a grime article? Traditional print has only the NME into new stuff and used to do that job and without commenting on the quality of their output I was astounded to see who had been on the cover this year: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NME_Covers#2011

      El_Goodo @El_Goodo | 22 Nov '11, 19:39 | X
  • That sounds so perfect

    But aren't music invested students clambering all over experimental elecronic music around this time?

    wonton @KennyDope | 22 Nov '11, 19:53 | X
    • Its Venetan Snares

      or nothing these days

      wonton @KennyDope | 22 Nov '11, 20:31 | X
      pichaelmarker this'd this
    • I've certainly been on a neo-classical/ambient/electronic trip this year

      but I have loved a whole load of "indie" records this year

      THE SHOEGAZE ONES
      Belong – Common Era
      Pink Playground – Destination Ecstasy
      Implodes – Black Earth

      THE PSYCH/KRAUT INSPIRED STUFF
      Wooden Shjips – West
      Arbouretum – The Gathering
      White Hills – H-p1
      Disappears – Guider

      DREAM POP
      Still Corners – Creatures of an Hour
      Mint Julep – Save Your Season
      Trouble Books & Mark McGuire – S/T
      Youth Lagoon – The Year of Hibernation
      Drugstore - Anatomy
      Low - C’mon

      AMERICANA
      AA Bondy – Believers
      Orienteers – Orienteers
      My Morning Jacket – Circuital

      NOISY GARAGE-Y STUFF
      Black Lips – Arabia Mountain
      Odonis Odonis – S/T

      BRADFORD COX (HE GETS HIS OWN SUB-GENRE)
      Atlas Sound – Parallax (my album of the year)

      jack_on_fire | 22 Nov '11, 19:19 | X
    • It feels like in this thread, people are just listing loads of albums which aren't electronic/are songwriting based

      but i think "Inide Rock" as a comercial/critical concern, as Sean originally posted about, has been somewhat absent for the last few years. But if we're including Kurt Vile or Cold Cave or whatever, it's like me saying "oh yeah, this year has been great for indie records, I love the new Bill Callahan one"...

      I guess I'm thinking more of british stuff. American Pitchfork style indie seems pretty much omnipresent, but there hasn't been much British stuff, either NME/chart bothering or 6 Music/Cult hero since 2008.

      Also, fucking hell, those Girls and Smith Westerns albums are fucking dreadful. They fit exactly into what Sean was saying about retro rock, pretty much this decades White Stripes and Datsuns. It's fine being influenced by "classic" songwriting from the 60s and 70s, but you have to back it up with some sort of conceptual point or at least a creative spark of your own. For a recent comparison, at least chillwave type artists actually made some attempt to reappropriate the 80s pop music they were influenced by, rather than just emulating it.

      calumlynn | 22 Nov '11, 19:53 | X
      • If sea was on about a for of indie rock on the wane that didn't include Kurt Vile/Cold Cave/Bill Cllhan

        Then why does he mention Youth Lagoon, Antlers etc. I dont think Indie Rock should be clearly defined, we can judge its boundaries by looking at more classifiabe genrs (electronic, ambient, hip hop ec)

        wonton @calumlynn | 22 Nov '11, 20:05 | X
        • oh yeah, I totally agree

          I guess I mean as a commercial concern, or maybe in comparison to a few years ago. That kinda US stuff is pretty much always around, and I'm not sure any of those artists would have either been more or less popular a few years back.

          calumlynn @wonton | 22 Nov '11, 20:11 | X
          • Your point is certainly true

            But whilst I wouldn't accuse you of taking such albums (the US ones) for granted, perhaps the fact that music of such quality is still being produced is actually a marvel. We'd be sad if we lost it, and as such, indie rock is in decent nick

            wonton @calumlynn | 22 Nov '11, 20:17 | X
            calumlynn this'd this
      • Pick your point dude

        Because Sean definitely failed in his original point.
        - Indie rock as a commercial concern is failing and not making money or breaking into the mainstream in 2011;
        - Indie rock isn't getting criticial reception;
        - The UK isn't developing enough guitar bands compared to the US;
        - Indie isn't moving music forward by being retro in the sound and execution (and therefore inherently redundant? my joke)

        El_Goodo @calumlynn | 22 Nov '11, 20:18 | X
        • i think my main concern is the third point

          I really, really care about British music, as I care about all British cultural exports I guess (if that's even the right way to phrase it), though I'd say "songwriting bands" rather than guitar bands (as lots of the US stuff listed above isn't guitar based).

          calumlynn @El_Goodo | 22 Nov '11, 20:37 | X
        • I've never loved that many UK guitar bands compared to American ones

          All those big UK acts like Arctic Monkeys & Kasabian - I don't like any of them.
          At the moment UK guitar bands I like include Cold Pumas, Hookworms and erm, mind's gone blank...oh yeah, The Fall!

          jack_on_fire @El_Goodo | 22 Nov '11, 20:43 | X
          • not guitar, songwriting bands

            and yeah I don't like the big mainstream indie acts, but then their American equivalents would be artists like Kings Of Leon and The Killers, so it's not really a fair comparison.

            calumlynn @jack_on_fire | 22 Nov '11, 20:54 | X
            • but Wu Lyf

              Mazes, O Messy Life, Tindersticks, The Heartbreaks, Conquering Animal Sound, Withered Hand, Hyde & Beast, Darren Hayman, Minotaurs, Gross Magic, Let's Wrestle, Alex Turner- all British indie artists who have put out stuff recently, ranging from good to brilliant.

              calumlynn @calumlynn | 22 Nov '11, 21:13 | X
              • totally this

                i've been thinking about this a lot recently, about how American bands almost automatically play to a worldwide audience, but British ones, unless they end up on Wichita/Beggars Group/Memphis Industries maybe will only ever play to British, and maybe European audiences. and it limits them. they can't put out as many releases, they can't spend as much on actually making their records, they can't record as frequently as they make like, they can't tour as much.

                on top of this, as seen a lot on here, people take a "British music is shit" approach, almost point blank, and never dig in the way they seem happy to do when it comes to American artists...

                :(

                guntrip @calumlynn | 23 Nov '11, 00:30 | X
                calumlynn this'd this
          • I've said this about eight times on here, usually to no response,

            but that Hookworms 12" is absolutely great. one of my favourite releases of the year.

            guntrip @jack_on_fire | 23 Nov '11, 00:25 | X
      • u mad ?

        girls and sw were both great. thanks

        politelydeclined @calumlynn | 22 Nov '11, 21:17 | X
    • The year in P4k music

      I know it's du jour to hate on P4k, but when I say that I like 'indie music', the closest thing to what I mean is 'Pitchfork music' (the Grizzly Bear, National, Beach House end of the spectrum we're discussing + indie electronic) and definitely not 'NME music' (Horrors, Wild Beasts, Arctic Monkeys).

      Has it been a good year for Pitchfork music? I think that this year is pretty comparable to / a bit better than 2008/9, but all of these years are significantly less amazing than 2006/7. The 'indie' albums that will stand the test of time from this year are probably: Bon Iver, PJ Harvey, Destroyer, Girls. But it was the electronic/experimental side that was really great, see especially: Tim Hecker, Mark McGuire, Bill Orcutt, Colin Stetson, Winged Victory, black metal generally.

      grrrama | 22 Nov '11, 21:15 | X
    • there's not been much that's really really excited me this year

      Bon Iver's album is good, the new Pains of Being Pure at Heart was fun too (but full of transparent influences).

      Where does DiS stand on Frank Turner stand these days?

      He almost broke the top 10 on the album chart with his new one, played his 1000th solo show, fill some very big places and with Wembley lined up for next year really seems to have found some significant traction despite being neither particularly present as a Mainstream Artist or adored by the indie-o-sphere.

      soapy | 23 Nov '11, 00:33 | X
    • basing on this thread, I'd say no

      the record I like that's been mentioned is Low. Future of the Left's new EP is great as well. Not heard the Atlas Sound one yet though

      I don't think I really like modern 'indie rock' very much

      prunes | 23 Nov '11, 00:35 | X
    • The best indie rock record of the year was dismissed by virtually everyone on this board on the basis that it didn't have some super exciting aesthetic

      ignoring that it's nothing short of brilliant compositionally.

      Luis_Carruthers | 23 Nov '11, 18:16 | X
      • Mumford & Sons?

        theShipment @Luis_Carruthers | 23 Nov '11, 18:24 | X
        Luis_Carruthers this'd this
        • :D

          Antelope @theShipment | 24 Nov '11, 19:57 | X
    • The thought here seems to lean toward guitar albums vs the rest, and in that regard it certainly feels like a weak year for "Alternative Guitar Based Music". The Antlers album is beautiful but may not be considered a "Great Guitar Record", it has that chillwave inspired wash of synths. But does that even matter? My favourite album of the year was the beautifully understated J Mascis album, but when a fifty year old guitar wizard whose heyday was the pre-grunge 80s is at the top of the your list, you know it has not been a stellar 12 months. btw, what was the last Great Guitar Record?

      achamings | 23 Nov '11, 18:46 | X
    • yes.

      Severed799 | 24 Nov '11, 20:49 | X
    • It's been a lean year for indie to my ears

      but I've enjoyed these at some point...

      Peaking Lights – 936 [Not Not Fun]
      Atlas Sound - Parallax [4AD]
      Gang Gang Dance – Eye Contact [4AD]
      Esben & The Witch – Violet Cries [Matador]
      Belong – Common Era [Kranky]
      DIrty Beaches - Badlands [Zoo]
      Bill Orcutt – A Way To Play Old Debts [Editions Mego]
      Wire – Red Barked Tree [Pink Flag]
      Delicate Steve – Wondervisions [Luaka Bop, Inc.]

      They're the most indie I can find on my list this year unless you count James Blake. I've only really dipped my toes though so hopefuly there are more I'm yet to find, not too hopeful from what I've tried from suggestions on this thread so far though.

      jimitheexploder | 24 Nov '11, 20:52 | X
      • yeah its pretty mad

        this isn't on it but it might be my fav: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOKStMWx0LU

        jimitheexploder @KennyDope | 24 Nov '11, 21:06 | X
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