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If you were editor of a publication about music...

Following on from the fairly critical NME sales thread http://drownedinsound.com/community/boards/music/4300711 I was thinking it might be interesting to get a sense of what you would do if you were editor of NME? Or any other 'fantasy' music magazine or website for that matter.

This 'constructive criticism' thread is also a place for dumping ideas for things you'd like DiS to do more of/less of and to celebrate things you enjoy in publications or online or in non-music titles that could work in music.

Who would you have on the cover? Would you do art-based covers more like Wired about a topic rather than focussing it on an artist? Would you be weekly or monthly or a quarterly digest? Would your title be just about records and gigs or would you be more interested in 'independent living' with recipes and tourism and things through the prism of music?

If I had a print title, I would absolutely have SBTRKT on the cover this quarter, as my magazine would basically be a music version of this: http://www.dgquarterly.com

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  • I'd buy a quarterly DiS magazine

    Like a high quality, fairly thick one with good quality writing, interviews and essays. Maybe with a Cd or something.

    • I've always wanted to do an annual with a compilation. What do you think of those bookazine's they do in WH Smith's?

      • Great Idea

        As a one off/occasional magazine- Perhaps with the end of year/ drowned in city features.

      • Was going to mention annuals in a half-jokey way

        Some sort of end-of year review/look forward to next year is always good and are usually the issues I make a point of picking up.

        I quite like the bookazine things for various subjects, it gives a good opportunity to explore different areas associated to a general theme without being forced to cram in all the news content and generally they have some pretty good and more in depth articles

      • Exactly the sort of thing that I would run with

        Though the big thing is that all of DiS' content is online, so there would have to be a fairly large amount of Original Content to comvince someone to purchase it.

        I would also entirely avoid lists- Top ten etc; excepting any sort of End of year lists.

        Rather than a best albums list though, I think a fairly lengthy analysis of the year as a whole would be good, looking at various topics: Music in the mainstream, the rise of new scenes/decline of older ones, and predictions for the following year. You could intersperse this with interviews with bands, specifically asking them to comment upon their year and the ongoings that they have had.

        There could be things like scene reports- so a few pages on local music scenes- like the "Drowned in..." segements you run, but more concise.

        I have loads of ideas...

  • I'd make each featured cover artist do a self-portrait and have that as the cover

    and I'd have it about not just music but also cover art, music video, books, studio and gear stuff and a bit of industry and business stuff

    I think I'd make the lead piece an interdisciplinary essay on a relevant topic (drawing lines through the history of art, music and general pop culture to arrive at a topical present day trend, mood or sound for instance)

    Plus a lead interview or '72 hours with' the cover artist

    A quarterly would be good

    Also, I would like the adverts to be separate from the magazine proper - a pull-out supplement - but people would read it because it would also be where all the live listings, classifieds and what not would be

    • What I mean to say is

      the magazine would be more a continuing observation of the ongoing conversation between the popular/contemporay music world and the other disiciplines that it reflects and influences (so fashion, technology and politics would also be playing their part)

      The internet has changed the relationship a lot of people have to music, the whole history of everything is available so I feel the focus should be less on what's new and coming and more on whats actually out there and what it all means and what it all meant and where it might be going

      • ^This

        I think that there’s far more interesting things to say when you don’t treat every artform as a neat little compartment. That’s not, nor has it ever been, the way these things are created or consumed.

        It doesn’t necessarily have to be about similar trends or movements either. I wrote an essay once on the idea of aborted work, following the Fantasy Architecture exhibition that toured a few years ago (http://www.ngca.co.uk/home/default.asp?id=45). It looked at how other artforms (music, film etc,.) treat work that never gets realised, the reasons for it being so, and whether the artists themselves see it as useful exercise or as a disappointment.

        Stuff like that.

        I also really like the idea of a magazine like Edge, who cover not just video games, but the *culture of video games.* which allows for a lot of articles tangential to the subject.

      • I concur

        not least because I'd like an opportunity/excuse to write more film stuff, which music is in a lot of ways inextricably linked with (both in terms of culture and business).

        Personally I find it difficult to get stuck into a subject in the right way when a lot of the time, you have 600 words max and about a day between pitching it and it being published. I wrote a proper essay about fans for a conference a few months back, and it's a completely different beast. But outside those circles there just doesn't seem to be much demand for it (from editors anyway), which means nobody produces it, which means nobody sees it to look for more of it, which means there's no demand for it...

        Tbh I think a lot of why print media's dying on its arse is by trying to emulate the internet and the 'now-now-now', rather than playing to its strengths - namely the opportunity for in-depth articles. People aren't going to pay £4 a month for the same content they can get on the internet for free, 6 weeks later.

        andyvine this'd this
        • indeed. which is why things like Newsweek, The Atlantic and the Economist do somewhat better at long-form journalism because they add analysis, rather than just reaction. i'm sure i read last year that articles 10k words and over were some of the most read pieces on some of the biggest sites, and also had the best click-through rates for people subscribing to the publication.

          site note: i find it really weird when you go on a magazines website and they give over my space to advertisers than marketing their own publication...?!

      • The principles of your idea sound great

        I would howeer argue that keeping art/culture/etc compartmentalised is crucial when it comes to maintaining sales. Something along the lines of avoiding over-generalised target markets, satisfying everyone but pleasing no one.

        • see, that's marketing speak

          I want a magazine where the writing is of a quality that sells itself and the range and interplay of the subject matter creates its own market place

          • It is marketing speak, exactly

            Writing of quality selling itself is noble but surely naive given how difficult it is for print media right now. Unless we are talking hypothetically, because I would very much be interested in reading such a proposition, but would never back it as a business, since it'd go bust within months

  • The separate adverts wouldn't work

    Ad sales rates are based on positioning in relation to certain articles/features - I doubt advertisers would be interested in being in a separate pullout supplement.

    For me it's all about the quality of the writing. I used to buy MM religiously in the 1980s/early 90s regardless of who was on the cover, as I knew the writing would be good. Chris Roberts, David Stubbs, Paul Lester, Stud Bros etc - didn't matter who they were writing about, they were always intelligent, controversial and entertaining. Music writing like that is harder to find these days.

  • I think to work

    There would need to be Print exclusive content alongside stuff which links to online. I think the idea of the DiS end of year zine would be great, something almost like a coffee table magazine which could even attract a lot mire people to the site.

    oojimaflop and TheWza this'd this
  • Drowned In Sound iPhone/Android album reviews app?

    I reckon you'd get a fair bit of play out of this for little more than the development costs. Obviously people can access the site from their smartphones but to have the latest reviews delivered to their handset in time for the daily commute would be great. Get the formatting right, make it free to download and carefully manage some ad space and you're laughing.

    TheWza this'd this
    • yeah

      am already talking to a developer about this very app. hopefully have it done for end of the year.

  • I still love the idea of music weeklies- really up to date music news etc

    but maybe that isn't relevant anymore, as the internet can serve that purpose.

    I'd probably go for a monthly or bi monthly magazine. A really unpretentious yet reasonably serious style of writing, also quite a few in depth and well informed articles on the music industry itself, cause I find that stuff really fascinating. Similarly, articles on certain lyricists, on class issues in alternative music, on songwriting. Lots of interesting stuff which isn't completely obsessed with the past or a certain band/songwriter's legendary status, although yet still regards such a thing ie. not totally forward looking/has a good appreciation for music generally.

    It's sad that in an internet age, when space isn't an issue, we actually end up reading articles with much lower word counts than we would in a magazine. I want to LEARN stuff, not just read opinions.

    b00jum this'd this
    • Also I'd DEFINITELY shy away from any kind of lifestyle content

      I find stuff like that absolutely foul, it's the kind of stuff that makes me hate the Guardian regardless of the fact that it's an excellent paper for news. If I had to sit and read about a load of DIY hipster scenes in Europe, or some very vaguely informed, overreaching article on "art" or something it would be as far removed from my life as reading some middle class guilt "how to go green" article in the Times2, and equally as aspirational/bourgeois in its own way.

      larrikinlloyd this'd this
      • Nods

        I shuddered when I saw their art & science article in g2 the other day, it was literally "art and science don't go togetehr, but can they actually do this thing which we arbitrarily suggested they couldnt for the purpose of this self-aggrandizing bullshit article. "
        I think DiS would be better missing the kinda music + cinema/ + art articles that are everywhere in Vica/Crack/ guardian unless its something really worthwhile, i.e. Nick Cave Soundtracks as opposed to latching onto any avant-garde rubbish that guardian types, like my 18 yr old self would automatically latch onto, reading with a false sense of interestingness

        calumlynn this'd this
    • That's actually a really good point

      I think the issue with the internet is that everyone has an opinion and a mile high soapbox to raise that opinion from!

      I would love to see in-depth articles on the formation of scenes, musical genres etc. Like, for example, the rise of Dubstep. These could be couple woth playlists etc that run alongside the article- so you have songs that are referenced and accompany the article running from Garage to the recent Post-Dubstep stuff.

      We can all read 1000 print magazines to find out about the beginnings of The Beatles, but I would love to read some really in depth analysis and history of some more modern bands, artists and producers- finding out what makes them tick, how they got together, their favourite breed of dog...

    • Agreed: weekly, reasonably serious, interesting

      This sounds more like an art journal sort of approach - and that definitely appears to be missing from current music media - although given the internet's apparent preference for "single-serving" content (as you mentioned,)I wonder if such a publication would sustain itself for long.

      calumlynn this'd this
  • Whatever happened to the weekly mailout?

    That often turned me onto some good reviews/features I missed during the week in favour of the boards.

    andyvine this'd this
  • I would do a quarterly mag

    it would focus on a chosen band each issue and that main feature band / artist would be at the core of that issue with other articles spinning of that artist so you would get a kind of highly detailed overview of that artists place in the musical environment. These would go from articles that cover the heros of the genre, to unsung heros, to those on the very fringes of the scene, to future stars, to influences in popular culture.

    So if aphex twin was releasing a new record you'd have a big feature on that and then maybe something about Kraftwerk or Reed Ghazala, and then maybe an interview with three trapped tigers or 65dos about mixing up electronica and rock music, and then an interview with some local promoter who just puts on electronic stuff and their experiences and then maybe an interview / feature with some proper POP music producer who utilizes aphex type effects in pop music and then maybe something about how the core values IDM type stuff gets reflected across over mediums - like a feature on an visual artist who cites warp type stuff as an influence.

    they the rest of the mag would be a kind of top picks of reviews from the last quarter and wouldn't follow the theme template at all.

    silverpop this'd this
    • by the way this is a good idea!

      needs more thising

    • like an ATP magazine?

      that's sort of what we try to do with the takeovers but bands often don't have enough time :(

      • They should make time

        This is exactly the sort of thing we would love, as both artists and consumers. We also really like Anschul's artist self-portrait idea. If they could be encouraged to see it as part of their art and a way of doing publicity that feels more like their creation, maybe they would find the precious hours. Like a FACT mix or indeed ATP/Meltdown, but written. DiS writers could help.

      • yeah kind of

        i'm not sure you need bands to be that involved really. You just take the main focus band as a starting point and then spread out from there into any interesting places that might take you.

        so another example might be the main band focus is belle and sebastain (like they might have a new record out of something) and from there you can have stuff about baroque pop or C86, film soundtracks (cos of that storytelling thing) (not a list per-say but maybe three short interviews with some current hip people (not twee-heads th0 - mix it up) about their fave film soundtracks),maybe an interview with which every company is responsible for those match adverts, maybe something about cupcakes ( but you can twist it like http://metalcakes.blogspot.com/), something about the next wave of twee bands.

        this isn't as good an example as the aphex one but you get the idea hopefully

        that's what i would like, I'm kind of interested in how it all fits together

    • Clash seems to be going more this way

      only with a god-awful fashion section which I hate...

  • I always say

    that the purpose of music journalism is to introduce me to stuff I haven't heard, and to shed new light on stuff I already know. Sites like DiS, Pitchfork & Quietus are great for the former, but I seem to be missing out on the latter. The likes of Uncut & Mojo focus too much on the mainstream definition of classic rock, but for me the classics are Kraftwerk, New Order, Public Enemy, Smiths, Cure, Tom Waits, Nick Cave, Wu-Tang, Pavement, Velvets etc, and any monthly publication that took such acts as their touchstones (rather than the usual Dylan/Springsteen/Beatles axis) would get my cash.

    My favourite music mag back in the day was France's Les Inrockuptibles (back in the late 80s when it was monthly) - a very clearly defined aesthetic, witty, intellectual writing, beautiful design, and plenty of meaty articles, essays, interviews & reviews. I guess in terms of seriousness it was reminiscent of Wire but applied that same intellectual rigour to a much more diverse range of music and rightly figured that Happy Mondays or Nick Cave were as deserving of serious treatment as Philip Glass or John Coltrane.

  • I'd favour an app and an annual over a more frequent periodical

    I was a religious MM / NME purchaser in the 90's when I was really getting into music (and had the money to buy it) but really lost interest when MM folded, sticking to purchase of the end of year issues for the top 50 lists and CDs.

    Since I got into DiS and Pitchfork, I don't even purchase the end of year issues any more. Having said that, I subscribe to Word, onto which I moved from UNCUT. The responses to readers' letters in those magazines indicates that they only sell well with the 'classic' artists ThirstDog mentions above. I think Select was the last magazine to make a living on more alternative artists.

    I think from just these points alone, for a DiS magazine to sustain the depth and breadth of coverage that we all enjoy, a monthly would be simply unsustainable in sales terms (I'm not sure how Wire does it). But an annual, providing the more enthusiastic music lover with an indepth review of key genre developments, representative artists, and must have records would be something I would purchase as a memory of the year gone by.

    The app (don't forget Android!) would be a real winner though. I do most of my DiS browsing on my phone.

    • I've been looking a lot at Apps over the past year

      and creating packages of DiS editorial either in Kindle style text format or proper designed iPad mag style and the like. General feeling I've got is that for the huge investment (about £5k is what I'm repeatedly quoted to do a fairly basic app) vs the potential income, the risk is really high - especially if the big publishing houses can't really do it.

      alternative is to look at doing something for free that is ad-supported or even created in cohorts with a sponsor but we'll have to see. I think the more plain text, Kindle-approach may be the easiest and cheapest way of dipping DiS' toe into this new frontier...

      • p.s.

        for now i'm more interested in using any money we have left over each month on ensuring the site stays online and investing in a redesign to allow the site to work far better on mobiles and to actually show off the content we do have, in a far more digestible manner.

        • If the latter is the case (and the costs are really that high)

          Then I'd happily do without the app. On (my) android phone, the site works fine. The community pane (and ads underneath) are always slow to load (which is a frustration because I probably spend more of my time on the community now than reviews and articles). Apps are only good if website are poor (which yours isn't, quite the opposite).

          Have you thought of using SurveyMonkey (or something equivalent) to collect feedback from all your users on what they would like to see?

          • yeah

            tried doing survey things in the past but not a lot of people take part. i try to throw a few questions out to the boards every now and then (people go really sick of it so i stopped doing that for the past 18months)

  • I would make it like Little White Lies magazine

    which has amazing hand drawn covers like this http://www.littlewhitelies.co.uk/the-magazine
    and the whole thing is presented really beautifully. I would probably have to make it monthly or quarterly to account for the extra cost.

    I would still have reviews but I think they're much less important than they used to be nowadays when people can just stream or download music themselves and make up their own minds so I'd have more a focus on interesting features and stuff. I would also do something each week on older albums that aren't very well known or don't get the credit they deserve just because I like finding out about them and the 100 Greatest Albums You've Never Heard list was the best thing the NME have done in ages.

  • Slow News

    Re: DGquarterly - love the "slow news" concept - it's difficult to make sense of any event without deliberate rumination.

  • I'm immensely tired of the

    'nowness for nowness' sake' culture that permeates much of online and published content these days. In years gone by I've fell victim to trawling through endless blogs just to feel like I was keeping up. Of course, a lot of the music wasn't up to much, but was hyped up for the sake of 'exclusivity' or the (understandable) desire for a given blog/publication to be first to break a band.

    I think other posters above have outlined really great suggestions about long-form articles and pieces that don't just look upon music as an isolated entity - quarterly would be excellent, something to learn from and really 'sink your teeth into'

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