Sleep in tents and in laybys, look filthy, be dirty
downloaders argument that bands make money from live gigging instead falls apart apparently
http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2011/may/15/live-concerts-audiences-stay-home
I have no idea how this transfers to ATP level bands say, or just normal gigging bands and not stadium level, but is it a general indication of live music watching dropping off? Are our musicians all going to starve to death?
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In that Animal Collective ATP thread someone said it only sold 55% of tickets.
Hmm, interesting...
totally
though I generally feel that ATP gave better value for money than a lot of other live events - i mean their gigs in london cost 25 odd quid a go, which is about average I suppose. But large stadium gigs were getting ridicuously expensive, and now promoters are starting to feel the bite. Mixed feelings, but I think they were taking the piss slightly!
There are just too many bands nowadays
no wai
http://www.bullandgate.co.uk/
DIS argument that bands can reasonably expect to make money from music falls apart apparently
Do you not think that bands should be able to make money from music?
This isnt trolling - I was just wondering. I like the fact that people could concentrate on making music and not have to have some shitty day job dragging them down. And doesnt having more time to practice and work on music produce better music?
I get your point...
generally a band who I like I will pay to go see them and buy their album on LP (and sometimes a tshirt) at the gig cos i reckon this is more money going straight to band rather than getting a chunk of it carved out by hmv or amazon etc...
BUT
The idea that bands will produce better music when they no longer have a day job and have more free time doesn't really work out. So many multi millionaire bands with loads of free time produce utter BILGE!
So yeah it's a bit of a balancing act. In an ideal world etc etc
If they make money, good for them, but there's no entitlement to
No it doesn't.
But
if they arent making any money because everyone downloads their album, and less people go to see them live, what are they to do? Are you saying they are not entitled to be paid for a job?
What do you mean what are they to do? About what?
People are entitled to be paid for jobs, in the general sense. Don't know what that has to do with music though.
If their 'job' ceases to exist because consensus reality has shifted re: the very existance of that job then they will not be entitled regardless of whether
people on a messageboard have emotion-based opinions on the matter
CORRECTION
If their 'job' ceases to exist because consensus reality has shifted re: getting paid to record music even being a job, then they will not be entitled regardless of whether or not people on a messageboard have emotion-based opinions on the matter
I do comprehend what you are saying
but it is just emotion based to think that it is a bad thing that musicians are essentially going to have a hard time of it and that there music is essentially being stolen?
There is an opinion piece in wire this month claiming that it will essentially end in less music. Should we not try and work out a new way to help support artists and labels exist rather than just accepting that they are running an outdated model?
Admittedly, I could not give a monkeys about the 5 large labels, and bands like Bon Jovi that can barely scrape a living on not sold out stadiums, but supporting smaller bands and experimental music is a valid use of money isn't it?
Yes, it is just emotional
Their music isn't being stolen. They can't give it away.
Musicians aren't going to have a hard time of it unless they make poor financial decisions, which applies to everybody.
The Wire opinion piece by Chris Cutler is just self-interested bleating and self-preservation. He and his record label might not want to fold, but that doesn't mean the net result for music as an art and music for listeners is negative (in fact, quite the contrary).
You can spend your spare pennies on whatever you like; there are however far worthier causes to support than smaller bands if you're feeling charitable.
so
if an artist makes an album, everyone downloads it. No way to re-cooperate the costs there then. A band plays live, but live music is taking a battering, so they cant afford to play somewhere that is too far away from where they play together/live. All i get to see is the small number of bands that I like that happen to live in Bristol, great.
The one advantage of the current system is the spreading of music, and being able to hear music you would never have done before. People should want to make music for the sake of it, and not for the money, but why should they bother recording and touring - and thats bad for me :( (and everyone else)
And yet, bands seem to continue releasing records and playing shows
So what's the problem?
I think i was essentially
having a theoretical debate. Due to the suggested drop in live attendances of bands, and the drop in record sales, I was worried that eventually what I outlined above might happen. For now, however, it seems that we do not have to worry. But will we? (to be honest, no one else does. just me).
The report is on live revenue decreasing, not live attendance (necessarily)
A BAND MAKES AND ALBUM
is something that happened in the last microsecond of the history of music
AN
(gotta proofread my hyperbole ~_~;;;)
they aren't and it isn't
and if the Wire are against a thing i'm all for it
Yes
No
Sometimes
I don't think they shouldn't be able to
But the various ways they've very easily been able due do to very specific accidental situations of technology and economics in the last century or so (compare how long selling records has existed vs how long making (and sometimes getting paid for) music has existed) or so have gone, because technology and economics have changed again. Don't mistake what I'm saying with any percieved 'morals' regarding bands and money.
Thank you...
I will enjoy myself.
not read that yet
But I go to fewer gigs now because I can't afford it because of varying things including price of tickets and tax on fuel.
after a decade of growth
so even though it has dropped this year, it would still be considerably higher than a decade ago
Play and Record in the tents and laybys too, will be better than most horrible music scene venues/facilities
Also poop in the street: http://drownedinsound.com/community/boards/social/4286695
oh BOO hoo.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/images/1880985764/ref=dp_image_0?ie=UTF8&n=266239&s=books
So a quick calculation shows
That live revenues were 15% higher in 2010 (not adjusted for inflation) than they were in 2007, in spite of the 6.7% drop in 2010. Figure in inflation, and revenues are probably up by 3 or 4%. In spite of the fact that we're in a recession and loads of people are losing their jobs.
but but but STOP ALL THE DOWNLOADING! IM A COMPUTER!
GEEE AYE JO O O O O O
Let me just look over some recent Ticketmaster purchases...
Tom Vek | Ticket: £12.50 | Total for 2: £33 | £8/64% markup
Young Knives | Ticket: £10 | Total for 2: £28 | £8/80% markup (FOR COLLECTION ON THE DOOR, FFS!)
Tori Amos | Ticket: £30 | Total for 2: £70.50 | £10.50/35% markup
I must be fucking mental.
Live music performed by 'signed, name acts' is definitely getting pumped up. Whatever the reason is, it'll backfire.
Meanwhile, gigs in the local basement, whilst a little more hit and miss* are still a fiver for three or four bands, with no need to piss about booking tickets through a fucking scam merchant.
*hit and miss in terms of music, but usually throwing up something worthwhile, often with a better atmosphere, and normally fewer divs in the crowd, and frequently better beer.
Summary: Boo hoo.
Yeah, you're definitely mental
All those artists are shite
qi klaxon
I never buy from Ticketmaster unless absolutely necessary
If possible I'll just buy in advance from the venue.
I genuinely think
booking fees have had an impact on this. There have been so many gigs announced over the past year where I've just thought 'an extra £5 on top? nah, fuck it'
Is it our fault that today's indie musicians can't play for shit
so can never get jobs as session musicians to make money?
BANDS BANDS BANDS BANDS BANDS