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Suppose im gonna have to listen to it now.
whoosh...................................................................caw caw.....................................rustle rustle.....................................
"My childlike creativity, purity, and honesty is honestly being crowded by these grown thoughts"
though i still read it on a daily
The 10.0 score is ludicrous, though
People seem to have adopted the attitude that 10.0 is a fundamentally ridiculous score, which I disagree with. (I've not heard the album yet so can't comment on the actual record, mind.)
I think the marking system/accolades for most records on Pitchfork is a bit silly and disjointed, especially given that they'll award something like Kylesa's Spiral Shadow 8.4, but not the Best New Music tag. #fumes#
You're right in the sense that time is needed to reflect on the album's pros and cons in greater detail, but I'd imagine that would quite obviously lead to a marking down, certainly not a marking up.
Also, as a purely personal take, if this record is a 10.0, then Newsom's Have One On Me is a 10.5.
I mean, I think part of a 'classic' record, for better or worse, is how it ends up being placed historically: how influential it is (and on who), how well it ages, how exactly it 'changes' the 'game'. And all of that obviously needs time, distance, context, etc. so any perfect score is going to be contentious.
People might say that all that's bollocks, that it's all about the music maaan and a classic record is instantly recognisable as such. That's what basically anything below 10.0 is for. By giving it a perfect score they're arguing for it as a modern classic. Look at Kid A. They were right about that - although how much P4K's influence makes such reviews self-fulfilling prophesies (as far as classic status-making goes) is up for debate.
Again, I've not heard MBDTF so I'm arguing purely academically. I love Have One On Me but I don't think it's even her best record. Ys could have been a good shout for a 10.0 though, can't really fault that record and I think people will look back on it with that kind of reverence in decades to come.
Leaving aside the notion of what constitutes 'classic' records, which is something I have an issue with, it is absolutely impossible to qualify how long it takes to remove a record from it's attendant hype, as you've pointed out. I don't have an issue with granting a record a 10 in theory, it's just that Pitchfork appear to have a rather snide way of enforcing their scoring system.
I don't like the way they'll clearly demarcate between what they see as 'excellent' and merely 'almost but not quite excellent' by a factor of between 1.0 or 2.0, because it's almost always the larger or more established 'cult' acts that manage this and it feels like kicking away the ladder from bands or artists that have broke through from leftfield with something truly special. This is what the 10.0 seal of quality seems reserved for, and it's what I take umbrage with. That may seem like a small point, but it does rankle especially considering how this'll skew Metcritic et al.
Re: Newsom. It's nip and tuck between Ys and Have One On Me I admit, but some of the Van Dyke Parks arrangements on Emily and Only Skin on Ys are mawkishly overblown and contrived, and with the possible exception of Occidental, there's nothing that I'd excise from Have One On Me; the consistency is amazing. The scary thing is, I don't think she's gone beyond cruising speed yet in terms of what she's capable of.
Which as it's nearly every review must have cost millions!
Why knock it?
Their scores are completely worthless. I guarantee if you bought all of their 10-rated albums and listened to them there'd be zero consistency of quality. They might as well just pick a number out of a hat at random. Fucking Pitchfork. Can't stand that website.
They haven't given out a 10 in almost nine years (and only three in the previous decade), it's hardly a score they give out often.
Including OK Computer, Kid A, Soft Bulletin, I See A Darkness, Yankee Hotel Foxtrot and one of the Bob Dylan Bootleg tapes.
Sounds pretty consistent to me.
any of the above records were bad. But aren't all those, like, seen as classics now? So what's this knee-jerk, baseless hatred?
Definitely deserving, methinks.
Has to be the shittest attempt at pitchfork bashing that I have ever seen on thus board. Seriously your efforts are on a par with digital spy greats like "Americans don't understand ironyyyyyyyyyy!!!!!!!!".
They might as well just pick a number out of a hat at random. Fucking Pitchfork. Can't stand that website.
and a fine review it is too. So excited about this.
i think people don't like it just cause in europe we have to put up with the shit crookers remix.
haven't heard all of this yet. some of it sounds pretty good.
Liked the first one too though. Was dead gutted when he couldn't make the Lil Wayne support slot when I saw him.
did not know there was a new one. man i'm out the loop.
can't find a reference to it on the webs. this nosaj thing-sampling one's great tho: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PlZosc7C6qc
the whole record is just like 808s & Heartbreak but better.
it worked eh
Fantastic review, too.
Albums rated 10.0
* ...And You Will Know Us by the Trail of Dead – Source Tags & Codes
* 12 Rods - Gay? (EP)
* Bonnie 'Prince' Billy – I See a Darkness
* Bob Dylan – The Bootleg Series Vol. 4: Bob Dylan Live 1966, The "Royal Albert Hall" Concert
* The Flaming Lips – The Soft Bulletin
* Robert Pollard – Relaxation of the Asshole (In the review, this album received rating of (1)0.0, giving it a dual rating of 10.0 and 0.0.)
* Radiohead – Kid A & OK Computer
* Amon Tobin – Bricolage
* Walt Mink – El Producto
* Kanye West - My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy
* Wilco – Yankee Hotel Foxtrot
everything he does is 10.0 to me.
* 12 Rods - Gay? (EP)
* Bonnie 'Prince' Billy – I See a Darkness
* Amon Tobin – Bricolage
* Walt Mink – El Producto
are not even on Pitchfork.
which is probably why, they haven't really archived their old reviews well. They have made reference to giving I See A Darkness a 10 occasionally I think.
they were a lot shorter and gushier and less 'professional'... I think they gave This Is My Truth Tell Me Yours a 9.8!
(I genuinely love it)
sounds cracking. There must be waaaaaaaaaaaaaay more embarassing stuff in the vault that that, at least he can sort of write.
AND THOUGHT OF USING MY POWERS TO DELETE IT. But then I didn't and now I look a prize fool. Sigh.
(it only got a 7.9 or something though)
think it's a really REALLY good album, I've always like Kanye to be honest, he might be a bit of a spanner, but he is musically interesting and it was always his rhymes that could be a bit hit and miss. however this album is lyrically really good, and the beats are better than ever. Give it a go, you never know, you might like it!
so I've already dismissed the score, the review and the record. I mean, I've heard the guy...so I know that can't be right. If this record's a 10, I'll let Scott Plagenhouf and Mark Richardson nailgun my ears to the turntable.
what an embarrassing thing to post in a music forum
You've got a point ^ nil, so I downloaded the record. It's a lot better than I expected. There's still enough commercial hip-hop tricks that grate on my nerves to keep this well off the perfect 10.0 mark. But fair enough, there's a lot of interesting bits too. 7.5/10
I mean duzzit, innit.
IT'S CLEARLY A 9.4 NOT A 10.0
THE WORLD IS IMBALANCED AS A RESULT
On repeated listens it deserves a 9.9 at best.
People should stop bitching about pitchfork. It's blatantly a modern classic the first time you give it a listen...
Do people on this forum actually like discussing music.
WTF IS PITCHFORK DOING HAVING AN OPINION or I HAVENT HEARD IT BUT ITS OBVIOUSLY RUBBISH BECAUSE ITS GOT REALLY GOOD REVIEWS are not intelligent pieces of music commentary.
^(reply to awaythecrowroad)
Loveliness all round.
it's great, but greater than Funeral, Sound of Silver, Hell Hath No Fury, illinoise, Amnesiac, Untrue etc?? i guess time will tell, but with the exception of Hell Hath... all of the above felt in some way unprecedented, whereas MBDTF feels more like a very good commercial hip hop album. This argument may have already run its course, but i sorta feel that unlimited money and ridiculously high profile guests make everything all too easy for old West. With most of the albums mentioned above, the critical acclaim represented the music and the music only, whereas you get the impression that the 10.0 with Kanye is indebted to his universal exposure and persona. I'd say that between the Roots, Curren$y, Big Boi and Das Racist you've got 4 or 5 albums released this year which are as good if not better than MBDTF, yet would never garner the same amount of press attention and critical acclaim
1. At least a few of those would get 10.0s with hindsight anyway - specifically: Illinois, SoS, Funeral and possibly Untrue
2. Outkast are one of the few MORE critically acclaimed hip hop artists than Kanye, and Kanye's album is certainly more unprecedented that any of those (admittedly very strong) albums. A lot of the beats in Kanye's album sound like much more than very good commercial hip hop, and in fact not akin to anything likely to be found on another mainstream album
3. Can you say the acclaim of Amnesiac rested solely on the music? It's pretty hard to separate Radiohead's work from their overblown critical acclaim these days
The album is almost certainly going to be seen as a hip hop landmark, Pitchfork didn't want to be left off the bandwagon. Whether or not 10.0 is the score is irrelevant - the statement is that its a classic. I agree.
and a landmark album, on both counts I consider it to be true.... deffo the best album I have heard for a long time that would be considered mainstream.
I see what you're saying but:
to answer your question on 3. If you compare the pitchfork reviews for both albums (and it will in part be down to stylistic approaches in terms of journalism), Ryan Dombel in his review of MBDTF harks on for almost three quarters of the review without hitting the crux of the issue, which must surely be, the quality of the album as a whole and the tracks which comprise this. the Amnesiac review on the other hand, whilst referential, doesn't ground the review in 500 words of disposable back-story for the very reason that it's not needed to quantify greatness. The point i'm trying to make is that music is so often too heavily grounded in the context of the artist and for that reason many albums will receive far greater praise than others which stand on a par with it musically but don't have the same degree of expectation or worship.
Also I'd say in response to your point, Radiohead are one of the few bands on the planet whose across-the-board critical acclaim is actually warranted.
2. Outkast are more critically acclaimed, but not as highly sensationalized, hyper-marketed or seemingly fame hungry, and I have to disagree completely about MBDTF being more unprecedented- for one it just doesn't sound that new, it's more a fusion of lots of trends in mainstream and underground hip-hop. I think a lot of the beats on the album are sweet, but more interesting than those on say Miss E, Donuts, or Hell hath no fury? i'm not so sure.
Ultimately this is my opinion and that is yours. It may well become a classic, i think it likely will, but i'm simply arguing that there are other albums this year which are easily as good in mine and clearly many others opinions, which do not receive the same praise for the wrong reasons.
And in all honesty it has about as much objective worth as any review - NONE. It's not the indie communities opinion, or my opinion... It's one person/websites opinion. Standing up for them saying whatever they like about it doesn't mean I prefer it to Donuts (I don't) or that I think it's even worth comparing it to an album such as Kid A (I don't).
But actually... Kid A is a fairly good example. Pitchfork gave that album a 10.0 upon release, and many would agree - a wonderful album that went outside the comfort zone of mainstream music. For others (not myself, I might add) it was derivative of many underground artists and short in the way of really great songs - DiS gave the album 8/10 on re-appraisal last year, a reasonably far cry from P4Ks 10.0 and denying it 'classic' status. You could probably apply either of those opinions to MBDTF too... and it looks like P4K went with the first one.
was one of their most OTT reviews ever, all describing it as some cosmic event. While I actually sort of agree, I would rate it 10, it just came across in a slightly obnoxious way to me.
Their rereview of the reissue (also a 10) was much better written I thought and actually went into why it was worthy of it rather than gushing about how beautiful it is, which may be true of the listener, but isn't helping anyone reading it.
When they review things in retrospect.
It's the curse of being a reviewer.
It's so hard to decide on something immediately. Off the top of my head, I've dismissed "The Beatles (White Album)", "Unknown Pleasures", "Meat is Murder", "Odelay", "Portishead" and "Is This It?" on first listen, only to love them later on.
The issue is, Pitchfork tend to set an agenda and review to it. The writing is well done, it just seems to pour to fit a mould at times.
they're one of those sites that have always thrived on being a of the moment kind of thing, they find it hard to put things in context, a wider picture. They get excited about one trend then jundge the rest of the music they hear at that time buy it. Its annoying and pointless but brings them heat, hype and views. It works they thrive there. I kinda like that they go back and re-review things it adds some much needed depth to p4k. Otherwise it would mostly be a spam fest. Discounting the odd columnist of course... I still heart the odd column that expands on ideas and sounds a bit more.
They seem to have taken it down now though, it was just a long diary of a guy's shitty day where he got sacked and dumped by his gf on the same day. The only mention of the album was the last line "oh and listen to this album, this is the good stuff"
Stupid review in a way but weirdly liked the review lol. Though ofc totally unhelpful
best album mayn
almost there, fair mark I say...
But no, not a perfect. God no.