Give it up, GaGa...
Okay, so at first I thought she was just this big industry puppet created by a team of designers working ten-to-the-dozen, spending god knows what to get her out there in the public eye at every opportunity, throwing in a bit of shock factor’ coz it guarantees headlines every time, right?
Then I came to think that, well, ‘Pocker Face’ and one of the others was vaguely catchy and gets people dancing, so where’s the harm, eh?
Around this time, I heard/read a couple of articles about how in control of her career she is, and what a ‘smart cookie’ she is, and I though, ya know, maybe she’s alright then…
But now, a couple of months later, after being subjected to the inescapable noise surrounding this ‘phenomenon’, the endless public appearances, and outré, ‘qu’est-ce que c’est aujourd’hui, madame?’ outfits made out of, look, a dead carcass, or the hair from an andalusian pony, or whatever, the more I just think “Why do people need this cack in their lives?” Is it entertainment? Really? “I am your whore…” she says… Uh huh. Whatever you say, girl.
Time rolls on, more headlines are grabbed, the outfits get more and more ridiculous to the point of “Well, just take all of your clothes off then – enjoy that for a few minutes and let everyone get some good pics for YouTube… and then the piece de resistance - carve yourself out of your own skin with a blunt knife so that you’re just a bleeding form, ‘coz that’s all you’ve got left to do now, lady”…. That’s Art right there, n’est-ce pas?
So…… She can keep ripping off Madonna’s outfits or music – I’m not buying the ticket. She can name-check Bowie and Warhol all she wants but she doesn’t fool me. I don’t see any ‘Art’ behind the façade and the smoke and mirrors, just a sad case attention-seeker, some dodgy lyrics, some pretty average dance tracks and a shedload of cash being spent and made. She must have one hell of an inferiority complex if she needs this much attention all of the time.
The amount of cash involved to keep her train rolling on – I imagine it could be put to better use in Africa or somewhere (who wants to ask Bob? Or Bono?) or pay off some world debt or something instead.
She’s had her fun, and made fools of millions, MILLIONS of people…… Now it’s time to fuck off.
DIScuss...
- Relevant artist taggings:
- Shitting Fists »[x]
- Fist Fuck Deluxe »[x]
- Fuck U Is My Name »[x]
- Loser »[x]
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Patronising rockist twaddle
Is it though?
Or am I right?
Thats a great return argument
You could use that in any context at all, ever.
to be fair
Marckees initial argument was a completely bland statement with absolutely nothing to back it up so i don't see how Alcarez's reply was any worse than that.
It was also anti-'rockist'
but luckily I don't give a toss.
Observation: This person's Social board post-count is alarmingly high.
"Observation: This person's Social board post-count is alarmingly high"
Observation: You are a massive bell-end
Observation: I actually care what you think
well that's ended nicely
What's patronising
is when people assume criticising Lady Gaga means you must be a 'rockist' (what an awful, awful word btw) and that, in turn, you're narrow minded. I mean, the guy admits he enjoyed her music taken on it's own terms, yet he's still deemed a 'rockist'?
Taking music on its own terms is inherently 'rockist'
"It's all about the music, maaaaaan."
Context (image, attitude, the 'product' etc. etc.) is EVERYTHING
Piss off back to Social
Brilliant.
Are you, Chubracabras and TheBeautifulOnes the sames person?
:D
please make this happen
someone who can be bothered trawling the previous weeks threads for beautiful paragraphs of blither
You haven't really thought that through.
Hippie culture
Grunge culture
Hipster/Indie culture
-Evidence that 'rockists' buy into context, image and attitude more than most music fans.
I really don't want to rehash the Rockist Vs Popist
debates that happened 30 years ago, but I'm not quite sure whether you understand what I mean by 'rockist'
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rockism
ZING!
Had no idea that somebody had strung out some half-baked subjective notions into ^this laughable attempt at a theory.
The only fixed tenets seem to be that rock music is normative and that it celebrates primitivist forms and processes - the gaps appear to be filled in by a preposterous mix of assumption, cliche and making-it-up-as-you-go-along-ism, evinced not least in the ridiculouly stereotyped phrase you quoted above, which you held as (not exactly watertight) proof that 'rockism' isn't intersted in context.
Direct me to a non-Wikipedia page, where the neutrality isn't disputed that has more than two references (and none of those references are newspapers) and then we'll talk.
As that Guardian article points out, by the way, it is essentially a term used superciliously by snobs to make themselves feel appear righteous about their taste in music.
So you're not happy with newspapers as a source, but you'll use a quote from one to back up your argument?
Cool story, bro.
That's the long and short of it, yes.
Newspapers are good for conjecture not for the foundations of a theory. Make sense?
No, not really.
I’m certain you’re just being obstinate, but let me spell out both elements of my contention:
1.Editorial content of newspapers is an effective tool in bolstering opinion.
2.Jacques Derrida did not publish his formative essays on deconstruction in the local bugle.
As I said, I don't really want to get back into the whole Rockist/Popist debates
that dominated music criticism 30 years ago, but they happened, and I assumed that most people on DiS would know what I meant when I used the term.
Obviously not.
^ Patronising twaddle
:P
I should take your word for it then, eh?
Afterall, I'm sure you imbibed those critical debates as you did breast milk at such a tender age. I mean, how could you not have, given that they 'dominated music criticism' so?
Too bad you can't signpost me to one of these seminal debates, which shouldn't be eminently difficult due to their obvious cultural import.
Let's be honest, that vile excuse for a theory means exactly what I assumed it to mean: it’s a view purporting that rock music (or values associated with rock music: certain recording techniques, involvement in the creative processes, etc.) is the nucleus through which an appreciation/understanding of all other music is filtered. It doesn’t take a pseudo-scholar to work that out. My point is that people (like you, marckee) use it as an insult to anyone that happens to criticise pop artists; even fairly. Moreover, in using it as such you’ve managed to skew the concept (easily done, because of its vague limits) and misapprehend the term yourself.
I shall demonstrate by reiterating – Alcarez enjoyed the music taken on its own terms – this is not an inherently rockist view as you so claimed, indeed it doesn’t really abide by the tenets of rockism at all, given that Alcarez was already aware that Lady Gaga makes ‘manufactured’ pop, uses (relatively) new recording techniques, is a ‘single artist’ as opposed to an ‘album artist’ etc. (traits that a rockist would take exception to). You’ve simply taken a clichéd phrase associated with rock music (illustrated in the elongated ‘maaaaan’ that is borne out of hippie argot) and attached it to the concept, because the concept itself is not clearly defined. It should require no further evidence than to quote a name such as David Bowie to refute your assertion that context is not in keeping with rockist principles; an artist beloved by many you would surely consider rockists, who is similarly renowned for outlining his musical works with a non-essential framework and strong artistic identity.
My argument is thus: the term ‘rockism’ is used as if to exhibit comprehension of a grand academic tradition of competing musical discourses, when in actual fact you’re just drawing on an ill-defined concept that you have mistakenly manipulated to suit your own argument in the hope that the poor sucker you feel the need to act so defensively snobbish towards feels intimidated enough to take your word for it and concede to your obviously superior knowledge.
*After all
For goodness' sake.
Interesting that you should mention David Bowie,
as he's often used as an example of where the claims for 'authenticity' as a virtue fall down.
I'm sure that Alcarez can speak for himself, so here he is, talking about Lady GaGa, "So... does she write her own lyrics, melodies and/or contribute anything to the writing of the tunes put against her name? If the answers no, she can go away."
Hey there, marckee
It's good that you were here again. 'Srsly', as you might say. (Hey, I'm even quoting you now - it's a disease!) Not only to resurrect this dead thread 2 days later but also to highlight a previously stated opinion. Again. Hey, in the meantime I even posted to highlight a good post of yours on another thread, yet you've still 'taken me down' again, or whatever you think you've done here in cyberspace. Bruised. Or am I? I guess we'll never know.... Most of us won't care either. But you might. Maybe just you. Have you got any more Wikipedia links, by the way? Anyway, I digress... Where was I? Ah, yes. So, let me explain - That statement of mine was from those days of darkness before I realised you were King of this Forum , but now that I've seen the light, and now that I know it and you know it, we can both move on, can't we? Nnnyeahynnnnghhhggh - well, it's up to you. You wanna quote any of that too? Be my guest, I'm in a charitable mood. Catch you on the flip side. x
It's funny
that you end so many of your posts with cheery farewells (i'm outta here! catch you on the flip side!) but you don't seem to be going anywhere.
Do I though?
Really, 'so many'...
I surprise myself.
Have you been reading some of my old posts then?
It's good that you have the time and inclination to do that.
Only really in this thread and the one it's linked to
You know how it is, pretty easy to waste time on the internet.
rly srs bsnss
Just because I think you're wrong on this,
doesn't mean that I won't agree with you on other threads. And just because you agreed with me on another thread, it doesn't buy you a lifetime pass.
I play the argument, not the man.
This pleases GaGa
As with most arguments
This has turned into a debate over the precise meaning of a word.
this is a picture of a panda dancing on the moon
http://panda-dance.com/dance.gif
Is that her?
In a panda suit?
C'mon, it is, isn't it?
Dan! .... Dan! .... Dan! .... Dan! ....Dan!
Dan! .... Dan! .... Dan! .... Dan! ....Dan!
Dan! .... Dan! .... Dan! .... Dan! ....Dan!
Oh, sorry... I thought you were the guy off Alan Partridge.
pocker face?
i like stories
Hey, I enjoyed writing it
No skin off my nose, or 'pocker face' for that matter ;-)
you mean her career is like the rock dj video
and we're the dj?
who are the people on rollerskates?
you are absolutely right
and the indie cred she gets is a thousand times more pathetic than the redtop and celeb rag coverage.
IGNORE HER THEN
a whole bunch of people get a kick out of her so I'm sure she won't notice if you don't.
yeah
don't offer your opinion on anything you dislike
err...that wasnt my point at all
It was more that the original poster seems to be getting all upset over very little. She's a pop singer that has some pretty good songs. No matter how over-exposed the media make someone appear they are still easy enough to ignore if you really have such a personal problem with them, as the original poster seems to have.
I don't in any way see how she's making a fool of anybody. That part is genuinely a bit of an odd thing to say.
the jist was...
you don't like her...therefore ignore her/quiet.
whats wrong with a good old rant ? nowt, thats what.
he/she also has a valid point that her whole 'artiste' schtick is loathsome. madonna did this but she was backed up by excellent songwriting.
lady gaga is dance by numbers with empty lyrics. all style no substance, fashion set to music.
i'd ignore her if ididnt have to listen to galaxy/kiss at work all day,fuckkkkk,.
For the record, dexicola...
I wasn't getting "all upset". I tossed that off in a good-humoured 5 minutes whilst fielding 2 general enquiries, issuing a couple of memorandums and also putting a business case together for mousemats for the whole company with Alice Cooper's face on them.
No, don't call me a hero, it's just what I do...
well done mate.
well done.
Get off DiS
I don't want ANYTHING to do with you, at all
errr
what?
Did
somebody 'quack'?
I thought somebody 'quacked'.
No, my mistake...
don't try too hard, now
you'll have a hernia
^
Complete lack of a compelling counter-argument...
People think into Lady Gaga too much.
She sings and wears costumes. I don't see how she's fooling anyone.
Well.....
"My new album that I'm creating, which is finished pretty much, was written with this new instinctual energy that I've developed getting to know my fans. They protect me, so now it's my destiny to protect them." - if that's not a nice bit of spin to sell millions of albums on the pretence that she has a personal relationship with her fans, then I don't know what is...
I'd say there's an element of fooling the masses there...
Blah blah blah
She appreciates her adoring fans. She should be put down.
I don't care much for Lady Gaga, but still think you're trying too hard to hate her.
That's not actually what she said though is it?
A lot of bands/artists say "We appreciate our fans". It's kinda good manners.
Not many say such pretentious psycho-babble tosh as:
"They protect me, so now it's my destiny to protect them."
She's full of cack and you know it.
P.S. I'm not trying anything, just telling it like it is.
Your original post is more pretentious psycho-babble toshy than what she said.
(siiiiiiiiiighhhhh)
The sound of a deep exhaling of air otherwise known as 'not giving a shit'...
well if millions of people buy her album based on that statement...
then they deserve fooling
ha
thats not very nice is it
This again?
I like some of her music. It's good.
^ she's a bit cynical
but she's also pretty good. SOMETIMES.
The public gets what the public wants.
...or what they think they want, either way, people enjoy her regardless of how well she stands up to your critique.
As long as she keeps turning out stuff like Bad Romance, Telephone and Alejandro
She can do whatever she wants
Agreed.
Unoriginal tripe dolled up in exactly the same way Madonna, Alice Cooper and Marilyn Manson have sold records before. Yawn yawn yawn.
You may not be able to polish a turd, but you can sure roll it in glitter, apparently.
i like that
Yes but Alice Cooper made 'Poison'.
THE BEST SONG EVER.
there's a difference.
did you read that article on cracked.com too?
said she was a cross between manson and madanna.
http://www.cracked.com/blog/why-its-time-to-stop-paying-attention-to-lady-gaga/
dont rly have any opinions on her, one way or the other though.
madonna, alice cooper and marilyn manson
have all created moments of utter pop genius though. as has lady gaga. you plum.
how the fuck can you compare lady gaga to the likes of alice cooper
in anything but image? If I was alice cooper I'd write that down, save it up somewhere and then read it in my coffin and start turning wildly.
I'm going to start collecting statements to be rotationally unhappy about in my grave now.
This is a brilliant idea.
I agree with the stance taken by the Dancing Panda ^
You youngsters go enjoy your Lady GaGa, now...
* Puts on beloved vinyl copy of K-Tel's 'The Magic of ABBA'. *
She's vile
And I've only been exposed to one of her songs. It came on right after an episode of Generation Kill on Channel 4, there was nowt I could do.
I'm going to a pop star fancy dress party as GAGA
I don't know what look to go for...
I agree with LLB. Most of her singles (bad romance, telephone and alejandro) are quite great pop songs so as long as she keeps doing that, what does it matter that she wears the wacky outfits and says her fans protect her. I think what she may mean by that is that everyone calls her a hermaphrodite and her fans go "No! Shes got a vagina! LOOK!" so that may be her 'protection'.
I think shes nuts and about 50% fake but she makes some darn catchy music.
She got me!
nooooooooo
I really like this post
It's really good
Not with that attitude
No fighting
plenty to go around as you are all aware.
Yeah she's absolutely boring
Telephone is okay. I think I'd find her a bit more interesting if she wrote really good songs. Nothing about her intrigues me.
looks like she trolld you up good, as intended
and therefore massively won.
you're absolutely right though.
I say 'she' but you know..
the whole team troll'd you up good
i like that one about phoning people up
that's good that one
I never said she wanted them to
just that a person was doing some phoning.
Cor, I bet she gave them a right earful when she got back from that club she was in with Beyonce. Although personally I would've turned my phone off long before that point. Ah well.
I dunno
Even if that were the case I can understand her being flustered. After all, constructive or not, a fun night out with your friends is not the time to be taking criticism over the phone.
I never realised this song had so many levels.
Yeah,
we could spend like two thousand years analysing it, like The Bible or something.
who is
Lady Gaga?
No idea
Think I invented her/him/it for my own amusement. I do that sometimes.
"like The Bible or something"
I really hope she reads messageboards and uses this on the advertising for her next record. That would be immense.
I think
the Manic Street Preachers already kinda did that with 'The Holy Bible'. Maybe.
Then, Arcade Fire released 'Neon Bible'.
... These were albums of insight and import, however.
I have sincere doubts that her music/lyrics/message could carry the weight of it.
Other than these minor quibbles, great idea.
It'd certainly be in keeping with the times for someone shite to try to pull that off... (My money's on Bob Williams)... and pull it off with aplomb due to massive public ignorance.
I think "You preach elastic to your jagged flock" applies here.
GaGa covers 'Cancer'
now THAT I'd like to hear. Even down to the scary panned laughing tracks running through the middle.
Fantastic piece of music
That's a cracking epitaph
It includes a non-word and everything.
Good luck with that.
dont pay attention to her then and eventually she will go away
it worked with jade goody, you dont see her around anymore
: D
They're just making it too easy now.
Yeah okay, maybe, whatever
I've had my fun.
cool story bro.
I don't know what a GaGa is...
...all I know is that I want her dead.
http://bit.ly/bD93hE
http://bit.ly/9QvolO
http://bit.ly/cxtPin
http://bit.ly/9uawVb
Are you a 16 year old boy?
We've done this already, sorry
http://drownedinsound.com/community/boards/music/4251312#r5244736
amazing
http://drownedinsound.com/community/boards/music/4251312#r5245313
Quite
That's the post I meant to link to, but then I fucked it up.
Still, it's impressive to go from "I don't know anything about Lady Gaga" to "I'm really bored of this overexposed pop star" in the space of six months.
Amazing what a bit of research and general living can do, isn't it?
I for one, fully believe that you, squire, never revise an opinion over a six-month period.
You'd be surprised
I do sometimes revise my opinion after some careful thought. For instance, I used to believe that record companies should stop spending money promoting records by artists I don't like, especially if they don't even write their own songs, and instead these funds could be put to better use in Africa or somewhere or pay off some world debt or something instead.
But then one morning I woke up and realised that was a fucking moronic idea, so I ditched it.
Good for you, man
Good for you.
:D
^
This guy's a card
POTD
For the first time ever, I'm grateful that someone doesn't understand how to reply properly.
Who's that then?
this thread is hilarious
:''''''''''''''')
i reckon if a singer is making you get heart palpitations to this extent, it's time to have a little talk with yourself.
It's pretty rad, isn't it?
I've been doing that all along.
It's great when you have multiple log-ins.
but she has a willy
Some anti-Gaga vibes from the Times
http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/public/magazine/article389697.ece
Not the complete article, but might help you feel like you're not alone.
Get off this site now
: D Insert po-faced remark here. I quite like him/it/her. Granite. But it wasn't super-serious anyway. Morning. Me and 3 llamas had a mexican. Don't try too hard now. I like pandas. Shit Fist Special. I don't like him/it/her. School of Rock. This again? Insert insult here. It was good for a giggle. Jazz. Am I she and you it and him her? I hate to bring up this theory. Rocky! Rocky! Rocky! Move along now. I only did it for the money. I like ducks. Fist Fuck Deluxe. Who am I really though? We already did this. Shits and giggles, mate, shits and giggles. I'm with the Chinaman. Africa? You didn't seriously... Oh, you did. Nothing to see here. Thee Orgasmic Chemical Mahogany Compendium Arkestra are a good band. Scat joke. Jazz? But I really know you. Steve Albini says... Cemetery Polka. Everyone moves on. Again. Again again. Again again again. Again again again again.
Are you OK?
Yeah, good cheers
Fancy a pint?
Woah
Such an awful article
Her basic argument is Gaga is bad because she's not sexy enough.
Meh
The sample on the page used to be longer, further on I thought it hit some more fundamental points about Gaga as the epitome of what's crap about the popular music industry. Especially that the whole push of 'sexiness' in the industry has reached such a high level that it's imploded on itself. That people are just trying so hard to sell through image and sex that it's become cartoonishly over-cooked.
Anyway it's not that I think the article's spot on - I don't hold up Madonna as a success story in that regard either, I think it's all pretty cheap stuff.
I'm not going to get involved in this argument but..
..Boys Boys Boys is probably one of the worst songs ever written, the lyrics are utter gash, it's up there with The Club Is Alive in terms of shitness.
Boys boys boys
We like boys in cars
Boys boys boys
Buy us drinks in bars
Boys boys boys
With hairspray and denim
Boys boys boys
We love them
I mean jeesus.
That's up..
..to the fans, to give it up. As long as the kids buy her junk, she'll be around.
Daaaaayum son,
you forgot something, I got you tho:
http://indiediscs.com/shop1.html
:'-D
Lady Gaga Make Dance on My Dick
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFZFZcm3Qos
good thread (probably. i didn't read it)