Micah P Hinson: "Obama is the murderer of the American dream"
AMERICAN INDIE ROCKER IN ANTI OBAMA SHOCKER!
Laura Snapes discusses politics with Hinson, his views on Healthcare reform, the American work ethic, the celebrity nature of US politics, and so on:
http://thequietus.com/articles/04439-micah-p-hinson-interview-obama-bush
xtQ.
- Relevant artist taggings:
- None
Thread not appearing correctly? Click here to rebuild | Report this
Twitter
Facebook
Last.fm
SoundCloud
MySpace
Friendster
RSS
hmm
I think it's rather crass (albeit complete journalistic sense, it's the big quote) to flag that bit up - the fact of the matter is that in the UK we're always going to have a hard time really wrapping our heads around the US concept of medical insurance, and vice versa.
How is it crass?
It wasn't just a flip quote in an otherwise music-related discussion - his political beliefs were almost half of the first interview, and he fleshed it out with an email afterwards. Though he does sound pretty dim at points: 'I am stoutly against Tolerance'? What the fuck does that mean?
crass was a bad choice of word I guess
I dunno, I kind of feel bad for thinking that he comes across as a dick, because I feel like he's an American saying something quite American and I'm a Brit thinking something British, and I think his thoughts on why Obama is a shit are inherently going to baffle/outrage a British reader, so as somebody who likes Micah P, I suppose part of me wishes it hadn't been flagged up, though it makes complete sense to do so. I just kind feel that lots of Americans probably have his sorts of opinion, and he probably looks bad for culture clash reasons. Then again, that's probably really patronising to Americans. Anyway he said what he said, etc etc etc.
But he's just saying what his views are and people are going to judge him on those
It doesn't need a US/UK filter. People need to stop being bashful about having an opinion on US politics if they're not American - fairly or unfairly they make decisions that affect the world directly.
I mean, the economic crisis – kicked off by lax regulations, dominoed across the world and no doubt caused friends you know to lose their jobs. Iraq War – we’re STILL there now, even though it was based on puffed-up BS. Global warming - 25% US-caused, but not making any progress there. Even the oil spill was a direct result of Cheney et al. gutting regulations, now BP is shagged and your nana’s pension fund is suffering.
Really not trying to sound like a preachy spadger even though I definitely do, but it can’t be stressed enough that it’s not a bad thing - or nosey - or intrusive - to have an opinion what happens in the US when it does effect you in real ways. For that reason, if someone says they quite like the architect of all those things mentioned above, it’s legitimate for people to be able to say in return ‘that’s a bit dopey’
no, you're right
I think I want to find excuses for him! He's always come across very well when I've seen him perform'n'ting, this is all a bit saddening...
Gotta agree with this
I've enjoyed seeing him live and quite like his music, would rather that he didn't have these views as I don't agree with him. Really trying to convince myself that he's still quite sound but I've finally admitted defeat.
I'm always bemused/depressed by Bush (G.W not the band) fans who are not happy with Obama as so far he seems to have done very little that Bush wouldn't approve of. I'm disappointed with Obama for opposite reasons.
Why is it saddening?
I don't mean this question aggressively or confrontionally, I'm just curious. Does it matter if a musician you like has different views to you?
I mean if he was advocating genocide or extremism it'd be an issue obviously but they seem to be fairly standard (in US terms) Republican political views. I certainly don't agree with the but I'm not entirely convinced you need to be completely in political harmony with everyone you listen to.
It seems people are upset with Hinson for saying he's anti-tolerance but aren't really shown a great deal of tolerence for other opinions themselves. Maybe I missed something in the interview but I didn't see anything that made him particularly evil or dangerous, just a bit simplistic in places.
I think it's because much as I like his music
it's actually his persona the way he comes across as a person live that I find most endearing; like I suppose to be a bit simplistic about it, part of the fun of the live show is about sort of, er, I dunno, hanging out with him, so to speak, you know, all these fun, rambling stories, so I guess he's not quite that wry, amiable, romantic storyteller bothers me a bit. Not that I'll be boycotting his shows or anything stupid like that, I guess it's a just a bit funny that he's not the guy I thought he was in that sense.
He probably is that wry, amiable, romantic storyteller though.
The fact he's other things too doesn't actually make that bit an act or fake per se, just means he - like every other human being on the planet - has multiple facets and dimensions.
It's true that persona is pretty crucial to his performances, it's certainly what makes him such a joy to watch
But then it's not like he tends to spout off about right-wing issues onstage, so as long as they're avoided in favour of his usual rambling tales about touring, smoking and love, that's fine with me I guess.
I guess to expand on that
if his stage persona was 'cranky country guy' then I'd probably enjoy his music just as much and not be bothered by this at all, but he's always come across as something quite different to me. But yeah, it's more thinking 'oh, he's a bit of a dick' than actively weeping myself to sleep...
I really like MPH
so should I read this? I don't wanna hate the guy.
I think that if you accept the NHS is Quite A Good Thing
then you do think 'massive douche'. I dunno, I want to let him off, on grounds national healthcare simply isn't the American way, but he does spout off about medicare in a way that was probably a bit dumb given he was talking to a Brit for a British webzine.
I think his music isn't explicitly political enough that you won't listen to it and think 'you fool!'
But I'm not entirely down with his views on, well, more or less everything.
So might be worth a read in any case, was what i meant to say
I'm not sure how I feel about this, but it doesn't particularly affect my opinion of his music, which I love
On the one hand, I don't feel it has any bearing on his music, and he's entitled to his opinion; at the same time, I wonder whether I'd be as accepting if I didn't like his music so much.
What's interesting is that the interview makes a point that he's a young, conservative musician making waves in a fairly liberal scene, but that's only really relevant over here I'd imagine. As far as the sort of music he makes goes, there's a pretty rich history of conservativism/Republicanism there, and that's also got to be affected by where he's from. I'm not sure whether his fans over there would be as liberal as the sort of scene he's connected to in the UK.
I'm definitely not as bothered by his comments on Obama as I would have been a year ago, as I'm finding Obama an increasingly difficult figure to handle.
But besides the obvious content about his own political stance, I thought there were some more wide-reaching and interesting points made in that interview. A worthwhile read, for sure.
This is where we dig out that quote about the stuff that the US state does,
and forward it to him, isn't it?
The idea, frequently mentioned, that Obama is destroying the idea of the American Dream, or is forcing the country to abandon one of its key personality traits, is a complete fallacy.
Reading most of that I thought
'fair play, man has his beliefs, nothing to see here' but when he gets to the bit where he says George Bush was a great leader you instantly know you're dealing with classic mongery. Even sensible Republicans will admit, now he’s in the rear view mirror, that Bush was ridiculous. The ones that won’t are the dead-enders who don't give any credence to the fact that he failed at almost everything a politician could fail at, but care about the time he turned up in a flight suit on an aircraft carrier or honked the bullhorn at Ground Zero because it made them ‘feel good’.
More importantly, anyone that refers to themselves as a PATRIOT in capitals is a bit whiffy
a marillion replies
oh
"What is it about him that you don't like? It's easy over here to get a very black and white view of American politics.
ABG: Oh no, we don't care if he's black or white...
No, sorry, I mean two dimensional."
CRINGE
They just sound like a couple of dim bulbs
Ah, read it
I don't think it's purely what he is saying that is so bad. I did get a disclaimer from this thread about it. It's mostly that he is not very coherent with his arguments. He really does not articulate what exactly he means with his staunch belief in the American Dream™ and how it plays into his politics, particularly about how Obama is "fucking up" America and he is against tolerance. If you want to say relatively right-wing/anti-liberal/anti-socialist/etc... things then at least have the balls and mind to put forward a convicing argument. I love his music but he just seems like a uninformed dick, without real intelligence. Just not used to it in the 'indie' musicians, but i don't think he's ruined for me now.
I saw MPH once.
He was rubbish.
There’s no tide-turning going on – he says he didn’t vote for him in the first place
hmmmmm.
http://www.google.co.uk/#hl=en&source=hp&q=noah+lennox+republican&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=&fp=650d666127925f30
Hmm indeed
Perhaps that's a 'no' then.
Someone needs to explain the opposition to the medical insurance reforms to me
Them Crooked Vultures are doing a gig next month in London, so that one of Josh's friends (the bassist from Eagles of Death Metal) can, like, afford to have medical treatment for cancer.
Damn right I don't understand it. Yes, it will cost the taxpayers some money. Yes, the big bad nasty government do need to be involved in getting it sorted, and insuring that the companies honour their obligations. So?
Both of my relatives who have cancer certainly can
I'm sure there are things they can't do, but in the UK they're going to be everyone's starting point. Three of my relatives (one of whom has sadly now had a recurrence) have been successfully treated in the past. It was assessed that they had it, the NHS treated them, they got better. Boo for taxes and government-involving programmes, yeah?
you can't read that and not think that he's a dick
It's up to you whether that effects what you think of his music. Personally I could take it or leave it start with, and this makes it a lot easier to leave it.
I've already started to go off his music, which I once used to quite like
Wasn't impressed with his covers album and wasn't really into him the last time he played Cargo (with mostly those covers) and couldn't be arsed seeing his most recent gig, so this revelation that he is in fact a massive twat does not bother me too much.
CUNT
whatever you take from that....
i think it throws up some really, really interesting questions about musical creation and personal reality.....which i sort of waffled about in the review i did of the union chapel show for dis.
he seemed charming as fuck that night and was everything you would want him to be from listening to the music. possibly playing up to an image, but that's the point, right?
i dunno...i don't agree with his political views, but should i be thinking about them when i listen to the music?
i guess maybe i should seeing as those views apparantly inform a lot of the new record.....i dunno.
i think more and more that sometimes there is a line we shouldn't cross with musicians...sometimes better just to let them play out the myth and stay away from the shattering reality.
but then is that just burying our heads in this sand, and are these EXACTLY the sort of things we should be talking about.
i dunno.
EVERYONE SHOULD BE MORE LIKE TOM WAITS...HAVE I EVER TOLD YOU ABOUT WHY TOM WAITS IS SO GOOD BECAUSE....BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH,...
The more I think about it the more I think what a stupid cunt he is
How can Obama murder something fictional.
Still perhaps it's not his fault that he's brainwashed, just social conditioning from where he grew up. Still a massive cunt though
Much as I like Micah
he makes redneck music and unsurprisingly has redneck politics. I don't see why people would be surprised that someone playing country would have some scary views considering country and the mental teabagging wing of the republican party come from the same place...
This was the main thing I thought as well (alongside the fact he sounded like someone I disagreed with)
I'm baffled by the assumption that all "indie" artists have left-liberal views.
I don't blame the Quietus for making it as it's a common enough assumption but one I find a bit strange and groundless.
That was kinda the point I tried to make in an earlier post
I doubt his fans in America are so 'liberal'
I guess I was disappointed as when I've seen him play
on at least one occasion he mouthed off against Bush and I assumed he was perhaps a little right on. I remember thinking at the time that although he came from Texas at least he didn't have the stereotypical views you'd perhaps expect. As someone mentioned above I guess that's all part of his act and he was just appealing to what he rightly assumed was most likely an anti-Bush crowd. No doubt has different banter when playing at home in Texas.
lolled hardcore @ "redneck music"
absolutely no-one anywhere who isn't an indie kid gives a fuck about this guy
just because the indie kids think it's cool
doesn't stop it being country. He's from the deep south, his lyrics lack irony, he is for all intents and purposes a country musician that got picked up by the wrong crowd.
That fellow comes off like a horse's ass.
Never heard of him before now.
also...
does this sort of make him a bit more interesting, really.
do we really need another musician talking some asinine cookie cutter right-on 'liberalism' wank....if we all want our musicians to be like that...that would be shit and bland and boring, surely?
this is much more exciting...wildly and wierdly and passionalty spouting off absurdly about the disintegration of the american dream and walt whitman and the LEADERSHIP of Bush....that's the sort of questionable hyperbole i want to hear from my performers.
i'd much rather that over someone just going....'yeah...obama. seems like a decent chap'. at least he's fucking engaging and opinionated and saying SOMETHING...even if we completely disagree with it. i'd much rather that than the equivilant of getting a nice safe clap on question time for shouting....'ILLEGAL WAR'.....BLIAAAAAARRRRR'
and why should we assume that everyone should have these wanky right-on views. it's like everyone wanting to pretend that kerouac was this far-out liberal guy when he was just a big ol' conservative.
no. i've convinced myself. this has made me like the blinkered bullshit spouting sonofabitch even more. i'm glad he's talking shit and mis-guidedly lamenting the fall of the american dream. much more interesting this way.
jerry lee lewis was/is by most accounts, a bit of a knob. but i'd much rather read 'hellfire' than a biogrpahy of billy bragg. i don't wanna be bezzie mates, i just want a good fucking story.
Yah.
I hate the "I wish everyone was WACKY" position as much as I dislike the whole po-faced liberal thing.
I pretty much want musicians to just shut up and make music. I want to know as little as possible about their personality and I certainly don't give a flying Philadelphia fuck about their political views.
not sure it's wacky.
he's talking about the way he lives his life, it's not a keeeerazzzeeeeee shtick.
i might be with you on the rest though...maybe. i'm not really sure.
the whole dynamic between the personal side and the music side....pretty fascinating and i'm not sure where i stand on it all.
I like musicians who have something to say for themselves
about the world beyond the ends of their guitars. Without them interviews seem like endless pages of how we formed/what we think to people's reactions to our music/what the new album's going to be like/why we split (or slight variations thereof).
Still, better if they're eloquent about it, rather than just ranting aimlessly.
I know the reason I became a musician in the first place
is because I'm an absent-minded space cadet who doesn't care about/has trouble relating to "reality" (I also suck at math). I don't think this is very different from a lot of musicians, so most of the time when a musician opens their mouth about "world affairs" I start the cringe. I agree it does help to be articulate but articulate musicians with their heads on straight about world affairs are few and far between.
I like artists that do it both ways (n/h)
I like Kanye, and he is an absolute knob who cant stop whining and will never miss an opportunity to spit some BS. And I like Burial, who keeps his mouth shut and keeps it mysterious. I dont think there is a right or wrong way to do it. Some of these things can add to the intrigue of the music, and some can distract, I would say its a case by case thing.
Kind of like Johnny Ramone being a huge Republican
but everyone expected him to be a left-winging punk. It's naive to assume that just because someone makes a certain type of music they have a specific belief system.
Look at Bowie. In 1972 they all thought he was this gay spaceman from Mars; by 1976 he was The Thing White Duke, presenting himself in Paris as this Aryan wunderkind and throwing out the Nazi salute. Of course, this led everyone to say "Bowie's definitely a fascist".
You mentioning Jerry Lee Lewis reminded me of the story in Mark E. Smith's autobiography about Chuck Berry playing in Manchester and the promoters expecting him to hang out with them and chat shit about good ol' rawk'n'roul. But Berry shows up and he's a complete asshole and shouts at everyone: "GIMME FIVE THOUSAND DOLLARS AND A CAR OR I'M GOING BACK ON THE PLANE". The promoters hesitate and Berry starts heading back to the plane, so they arrange him the stuff, give him directions to the venue, and then he takes off in the car, zooming down the motorway in the wrong lane.
Bit of a tangent, but, yeah, I agree with you that the good stories are better than the 'I voted for the liberal guy, please buy my record' thing. Or whatever it is we're discussing.
*Thin
I typed out "Thing" three times and deleted it and ended up posting "Thing" in the end. ffs.
W
I don't care what views he has, I just wish he could argue them coherently and articulately so at least I could respect them
It's not what he believes, it's how he justifies it (if he wants to rant about it in the first place)
That's fine if you're consistent
but do you apply the same standard when musicians express left-wing views incoherently and inarticulately?
exactly this.
you can't get like this when some guy goes...'socialist bullshit', when we are just as likely to go 'tory cunts'
the guy is just mouthing off about politics in a pub, the same way most people with completely oppossing views would...
on election night, with a beer in my hand all i could manage was...'THIS IS BULLSHIT' over and over again.
i hate lefty preachy bollocks more than anyone dude
i also resent "mouthing off about politics in the pub" as it usually results in complete shite being spoken... it's not the same anyway as "a guy" because you and i both like his music a lot and we're going to read into his comments more than old tony mcpint.
"you can't get like this when some guy goes...'socialist bullshit', when we are just as likely to go 'tory cunts'"
to say we can't though is showing elitism, that we can't go down to their level! what's wrong with disagreeing with his views anyway, then having guys who disagree with us calling us cunts, everyone it entitled to a say anyway! i am aware that if i was a musician and i was talking incoherently and inarticulately about how amazing marx was then i would rightly get flagged by someone with different politics to me, so what's the problem?
'i am aware that if i was a musician and i was talking incoherently and inarticulately about how amazing marx was then i would rightly get flagged'
like joe strummer you mean, arf arf.
no..erm...i dunno. i think it's just the thing you keep saying about not respecting his views because they aren't reasoned properly. it would be easier if you just went, 'this guy is talking bollocks', without saying that it might be more palattable if he was more eloquent and reasoned with his views.
when was the last time somone said something you really fucking disagreed with, but they were quite coherant and articulate so you said, 'well...fair play though...he did put his backwards point across quite clerly, so i respect his views for that'.
LIKE FUCKING DAVID CAMERON, YEAH? ALL CLEVER WITH THE WORDS AND THE TALKING AND DOING A SPEECH ALL THAT, YEAH?
if you disagree, you disagree
i dunno...
anyway, are you back up north yet?
joe strummer was a hypocrite, and i don't really give a shit about the clash
take the economist for example, i don't necessarily agree with their views but they argue them well. helps that i've worked there though i guess. in alistair campbell's book, i disagree with policy decisions and stuff but he often justifies it and i think "fair", but not what i would believe in. i went to a catholic school and some of them there have views i disagree with on politics and religion but at least a few of them are doing it for the right reasons, if you get me. get into a political debate with someone who isn't like you, you will either despise their misguided views or think "well, i disagree at least you have thought this through". there is a BIG difference and it extends beyond micah, the left/right divide, it's just striving to better yourself. but micah may not give a shit. this has turned into a different debate now so... it's less about micah and more about how to respond to someone saying something you disagree with and saying it in a rather sloppy, incoherent, inarticulate way...
it's not about being palattable... in school/uni/whatever you are taught to justify your arguments and perhaps give evidence behind it, you'll get a good mark if you are coherent and articulate behind your thoughts... why can't that extend to real life? not literally giving someone a 64 for half-decent BNP views or whatever, but if i did, i would give Micah a 39...
i WANT to engage in micah's views, and argue against them, but he is just talking complete shit and i don't really understand his points. that's the thing with this, to me.
repeatedly replies is making it appear like i give much more of a shit than i do though.
oh, and i dunno what the cameron stuff you are on about is, cameron is just populist bullshit and DOESN'T SAY ANYTHING in the slightest bit controversial or out there, so it's different to the original point about micah.
back on sunday, babe. you?
p.s.
r.e
"when was the last time somone said something you really fucking disagreed with, but they were quite coherant and articulate so you said, 'well...fair play though...he did put his backwards point across quite clerly, so i respect his views for that'."
I'M DOING IT NOW WITH YOU!!! ha!!!!!
;)
see, cause i just think you're wrong as fuck
and there's no level of eloquence you could achieve for me to respect your views. wink, wink etc etc.
my point with cameron is, never once in your life have you said "well, i disagree [but] at least you have thought this through".
i dunno....we're both talking shit now. i'm gonna go buy a big french stick and eat it whilst watching the football in my pants.
i'll be back monday pal.
you just hate tolerance!
to be honest i'm not a fan of overt politics in my music really
i even hate left-wing ones like billy bragg and chris t-t who argue coherently and articulately and are obviously very educated. so yeah... i guess i am consistent, i just can't think of any time i've read an interview with a band i like who have expressed left-wing views incoherently and inarticulately? gonna start a thread.
to be fair, it's not like i lose sleep over micah's comments or give a shit, i do feel a bit like michael_w does up there about it adding to his character, i just don't respect his views because i don't realy understand their reasoning...
I don't have a problem
with someone having their own personal, political beliefs, even if they're conservative and conflict with mine. It doesn't necessarily make them a bad person just for disagreeing. What I did disagree with in this interview though was all this bollocks about the Obama administration undermining the 'American Dream'. You may say that the quintessential British snigger at the American Right is a bit patronising, but I find his vague patriotism and blind allegiance to a place he had no say in being born in, uniquely patronising. To me, it seems patronising to suggest that, because Obama wants to extend the scope of healthcare to those a little worse off, he's somehow 'anti-American'. It's as if those vague American values he speaks of are above all else and have a divine right to be honoured, with any deviations being 'really shit'; which in itself was roughly the odd justification he gave to qualify most of his statements.
So what you're basically saying is you don't have a problem with him expressing conservative views
you just have a problem with him expressing conservative views. Did I understand that correctly?
I found that similarly confusing
No, I don't have a problem with him expressing conservative views
And I can see why you might've thought that in hindsight, but I just felt his justification for those views was rather odd, quite vague and a bit weak. It seemed as if he wasn't really prepared to engage in proper discussion, rather roll off 'he's shit' attacks on Obama, that's hardly a conservative view, it's just a bit childish.
yeah, i don't really understand this...
'i don't mind him talking bullshit views, as long as he is nice and clear and eloquent about it'
maybe if he had some nice stats and figures and percentages and shit to back up his points, this thread would never have been made eh?
also
'It seemed as if he wasn't really prepared to engage in proper discussion, rather roll off 'he's shit' attacks on Obama'
to be fair, his views are never properly questioned or oppossed by the interviewer so really he was just given the chance to have a bit of a rant.
you can only have your position if he was asked specific questions to explain his views by the interviewer and it was more of a debate, but still came up short with his views.
you can't moan at the guy for just ranting when he isn't really asked any specific questions to scrutinise his points.
I see what you mean
And I saw your response to the guy above, what you say is true, I mean, there are people with left-wing views who probably just mouth off similarly, maybe the fact that I disagree with his views means that the unsubstantiated argument grates a lot more. I probably should've noted that in my original post, but what I was hinting at is that I don't have a problem with people's views if they seem to justify them to me, or try to. It goes for lefties too, you'd probably get a similar reaction from people on here if it was an interview with the early Manics or Rage Against The Machine etc.
yeah
and to be fair, two years ago or whenever it was, i did start a big thread moaning about rage against the machine when they went on to the reading stage wearing orange jumpsuits
'it's like....guantanamo, yeah?....FUCK YOU BUSH'
Almost all musicians are pretty trite, childish and ignorant talking about politics though.
Even Thom Yorke is anything but eloquent and incisive when he actually talks about his political views. What Hinson's done in being vague and a bit weak is pretty much what 95% of the anti-Bush, anti-Iraq war musicians did, just for the other side.
Yeah, I agree with that.
The only reason I entered into the discussion was because I like his music and this adds to his "mystique". After 24 hours of it settling in, I can live with him being like he is and I'm sure if it was a left-wing person with overty political, preachy lyrics I would turn off the music forever... I would just prefer him to be articulate about it.
*rolls up liberal left-wing sleeves and prepares to administer a slapping*
Micah - your recent covers record was poor!
>
http://charliemarks.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/real_criminal_tony_blair.jpg
perhaps his second-rate Hemingway-isms
fit perfectly with his second-rate (and strangely timely) americana-noir. now ive got another reason to ignore his non-presence
yeah, keep ignoring him by posting in threads about him.
good work chief.
as you have probably already realised...
that statment was going forward from now on, but thanks for the ersatz sarcasm.