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Had a bit of Lauren on earlier as well...
Or is it more to ensure the public cultural climate remains diverse and interesting? 'Cause I just can't imagine people with the internet at the fingertips and a well developed internet in music really needing to rely on a radio station. This is a relatively disinterested opinion, but I would be curious to hear the opinion of those really gunning to keep it.
but, in my opinion, listening to a song for the first time on the radio is probably the purest form of musical consumption there is..
marc riley, jarvis cocker, gideon coe, stewart maconie, guy garvey, lauren laverne have introduced me to an awful lot of good music....adam and joe have made me piss myself laughing...the documentaries have enhanced my knowledge on a lot of stuff...(history of reggae atm is really fucking interesting)...
true you can do the whole....
name/article/blog/thread/review > myspace/spotify/youtube > opinion route
but there is something truly special about
song > opinion.
but there are other contexts for that; and it's a bit of a frill. Is that really the reason to save the station?
But the bottom line: if 6 goes, sites like DiS will suffer.
Artist A's sole outlet is 6.
6 goes, Artist A gets no radio play.
Through no radio play they struggle to increase audience.
Through no audience increase, they struggle to play live.
They struggle to play live, they can't pay bills.
They pay bills by giving up music and getting a Proper Job.
Artist A stops making material that is covered on/loved here.
That's a very basic breakdown, and very one-sided; but it's as nutshell as I can make things without getting all essay on yr ass.
by which I mean relatively scarce, which is to say that there is a shortage of music, which I posit is incorrect.
Is better music produced by people without 'proper' jobs? Do all musicians that don't make money from music chuck it in after a certain number of months/years and get a 'proper' job which eradicates all musical output? Answers to both of these questions seem to be presumed as affirmative, but I've not seen any evidence and I'm deeply sceptical.
Get all essay on my ass!
6 does not typically produce artists who achieve superstar status; it does provide a platform for the lower-rung acts to shine on though.
I'm going to avoid any lengthy engagement on the topic, but know that should 6 close livelihoods will suffer, art will suffer, and it's more than just musicians and workers at 6. Selfish though it is to say so, much of my work is dependent on what 6 currently can offer an audience; take it away and I'm left effectively unable to cover bands I would like to, as there's no way of 'qualifying' the coverage. Like, take Liars. No Radio 1 attention. No Radio 2 attention. A little on 6 Music so I can commission a review for the BBC/music site. Without that support... maybe no review. Which would be crazy to most readers here; but most readers here are from a very small clique of music fans who're willing to give a band a chance without an endorsement from popular media.
That does extend somewhat to sites like DiS - if a band's not picking up some attention elsewhere, and 6 is great at giving bands a first toe in the door, why cover them? Where's the evidence they've an audience? Exceptions to the rule exist, but bands with seven-figure MySpace views before a first album are rare and (often) dogshit awful.
And, simply: 6 Music is perfect public service broadcasting, as no alternative is offered in the commercial sector. It does genuinely have something for everyone - if you're yet to find it, listen harder. It's a magic little station that does so much for so many across the industry, and that includes at the majors; and it does this on a budget which is a drop in the ocean compared to Radio 1 (as evident with the 1 Big Weekend... those fees can't have been small). If the BBC had come out and gave guarantees on where the specialist content on 6 could sit elsewhere, then I would not be so against its closure. As they have not, I cannot see it closing. And if it does, well... the system has failed.
Anyway, as far as providing a public service 6Music is clearly better than the commercial stations (Radio1 etc), but my original question was whether this closure was simply bad news for the cultural diversity of the general non-obsessive public OR was also bad news for the DiS-type music fans. And I can’t see that it really has any impact on this community of listeners, who are surely far too savvy and aware to be so limited to a single resource for their listening? Your point about public service broadcasting is only relevant to the general public, not to this ‘clique’, as there are many alternatives (though I wouldn’t typically describe them as belonging to the commercial sector, apart from in the low-level sense of that term).
Is that these artists need more than this clique to keep going. Also, those are some broad brush strokes: do you really think everyone here is as savvy as they let on? I know I'm not, and I used to run this joint.
Where's your evidence of this? And even if it were true, what would be the loss to the listening public? Again, there was a time before this station existed when music existed too!
"do you really think everyone here is as savvy as they let on?"
Depends what we mean by savvy I suppose, but my point is that 6Music is merely one of many many outlets for discovering/listening to new/non-mainstream music. I think it's beyond ridiculous to suggest that all musicians would wither and die without it, and that listeners would be short of material to engage with, or alternative avenues for that activity.
That blog post is fine and all but it doesn't address my question about the effect on 'obsessive listeners', only the general public.
That Joe Public can switch on and find something amazing on? I'm not sure. It's the absolute lack of a 6 Music substitute that is the primary reason why the Trust will hopefully leave it. I mean, it can be tweaked - but the service it provides is unique, unless you can enlighten me...?
As for artists needing more than DiS/Pitchfork et al to get by - um, yes. How many avid blog readers are out there buying product? It's speculation on my part, but I'd say that a lot of people who post here saying they've downloaded something illegally but they'll buy it when it's out don't get out there and pick it up properly.
I think if you speak to any artist who has received support from 6 Music, at any level on any show, they'll tell you how significant it is to them.
Obsessive listeners... what are they going to listen to? The Freak Zone's not likely to pop up on Absolute.
It doesn't offer the same mix of old and new though. The strange rarely appears. The joy of having 6 on, even during the daytime, is what slips in between the likes of Delphic and The Drums.
nah, not for me thanks.
and I was trying very hard not to get involved in this thread, 'cause I kind of agree with you and think 6music is a good idea and should stay, but I wouldn't want to listen to it if you shoved a red hot poker up my bum (and I say that, because I used to listen to it a lot, and with the possible semi-exception of the Freak Zone, it was utter middle-of-the-road tripe then)
My question is about DiS types. Do they need 6Music to find/hear interesting music? I say no. Besides, your framing of alternatives is contained within the domestic radio market. I haven't regularly listened to the radio in years, I'm genuine surprised that many people do with the plethora of superior internet options/sources available (note again for clarity that I'm not talking about Joe Public).
"As for artists needing more than DiS/Pitchfork et al to get by - um, yes." So this is still just your instinctual reaction rather than a statement with evidence. I should be clear that I don't agree that artists need mainstream coverage to create music. If you're talking about monetisation or a certain level of income then that's a different subject - I'm coming from the perspective of a listener. You used the example of Liars earlier - You seem to be saying that you think they wouldn't have made their albums and that we wouldn't get to listen and appreciate them if 6Music didn't exist. I say that they would have, and that's (in a nutshell) why 6Music doesn't matter.
And you misunderstand completely, although I start to wonder if you are purposefully antagonistic (no worries there, aren't we all).
Man makes art but nobody sees it - does man make art again? I appreciate that accessibility to new music is greater than it's ever been - thanks, The Internet - but my ears are pricked often by 6, as are those of colleagues who have it on in the office. "Who's this?", etc. And then they find out and buy the record. They would not have done that without 6 - assuming 6 is playing them but other so-called mainstream stations are not - so the artist would not have had that sale.
Any listener's own perspective is entirely subjective, though, so your position is a fair one. I can't, and won't, knock it, though it seems wires are crossed here. Do name your superior internet alternatives, please.
I don't think I misunderstand, given that I've set the agenda with my initial question. That question is whether people who are actively and strongly interested in new and interesting music (whom I've also referred to as 'DiS types') need 6Music to fulfil any of their listening needs (I agree that Joe Public benefits from the station's existence). You've suggested that they do need 6Music, but I don't think you've made much of an argument and thus stand by my belief that 6Music is of little necessity for DiS types. This isn't to say at all that it doesn't do a good job, but just to say that the typical listener in this DiS community will do just fine without it, with no particular difference to their music consumption. It might appear that I'm critical of 6Music - not the case, I just think it replicates other avenues available to those who are sufficiently interested to actively pursue them.
"Man makes art but nobody sees it - does man make art again?"
Two points. Firstly, yes: the great majority of the artistic community exists with modest or miniscule audiences, proceeding for a time or indefinitely under those circumstances. Art does not necessitate dialogue or even detection. Secondly, if man doesn't make art again, how is a listener harmed (especially if man2 makes art)? There is no shortage.
"my ears are pricked often by 6, as are those of colleagues"
This anecdote shows that 6Music is an avenue by which you might well find music, no argument there. But I think that you and people like you would have your ears pricked by something else if there was no 6Music, you wouldn't merely give up into a state of silence. Surely?
played A) dance music*
B) anything more cutting-edge than Faust
I think part of it's problem is the lack of real 'specialist' shows, Freak Zone etc. kind of do that but are on in the middle of the evening and so, at best, play the more accessible end of Wire-friendly stuff (The Advisory Circle/Finders Keepers comps etc.) without really delving into anything a bit more unpalatable than that. Also, as it's a digital station, and I don't have a digital radio, I might as well just listen to internet radio (Resonance, WFMU, Rinse.fm, Sub.fm, Live.fm etc.), and as I don't think I know anyone who listen to 6music, I kind of wonder who it's demographic is at the moment, but as I say, I think your first argument does stand up, and I'll be pleased if it stays, but I'd hope it takes the near-death experience as a warning it needs to get a lot better, and a lot less comfortable.
(*I'm not counting Dave Pearce's Dance Anthems or 6mix, by the way, cause both of prime examples of that kind of conservativism)
Completed mine a while back. Seem to remember going off on one about that Snog.Marry.Avoid programme as well. If you're looking for cuts...
Must cost about 20p per episode to make.
Almost completely devoid of artistic merit, but mildly humourous 'disengage brain' tv viewing. See also: Hole in the Wall & Total Wipeout.
Ire can be more justifiably directed elsewhere.
My feeling about "mildly humourous 'disengage brain' tv viewing" is that commercial alternatives exist precisely to provide those options. As far as I'm aware the raison d'être of ITV is "mildly humourous 'disengage brain' tv viewing". The way the BBC is funded should mean that it's less concerned about ratings and more able to do interesting, niche programming - and more didactic programming too.
amount of relief rainfall in Barnet. Yes, basically
But I reckon that since hardly anyone can afford to make a video that MTV2 would play, a radio station that plays lots of self-recorded music is a bit more useful.
(I gave a shit about 120 minutes being cancelled, for the record)
for new music Lamaq playsan unsigned band each week (even thought i don`t beleave in the term unsigned anymore)there is a 6 music indroducing that plays alot more music than Hew stephens
that you'd presume everyone here would want to save 6 Music.
Only slightly, mind.
You've misinterpreted 'presumptuous' as 'threatening'.
More simply then, did this thread say "Have you done your bit to Save 6Music as that's what everyone wants?"
Again no. But I'll bet more people on here do want to save it than either don't or aren't bothered.
You should also refer to the definitions of 'implicit' and 'explicit'.
I don't even get what it really means.
Even though it kept timing out and being shit. Hope it counts for something, probably won't though.
because it was one of the only radio stations to ever give my band a live session. That speaks volumes about their mentality as far as i'm concerned.
And also because i think the programming is great. Jarvis Cocker's programme is especially interesting.
I hardly ever listen to 6 music, but I'd rather it improved than disapeared. It could do with being more vibrant and not so fuddy duddy even when its talking about brand new music. But if it closed down it might get some people fired up and make them start their own grass roots stuff instead of relying on the big guns or looking to american online stations. It would prob bring some new tallent into indie radio too instead of having to wheel out the old people on 6 music. I guess that would be the good side to things closing down over there but it would prob leave a void in the mainstream for a little while but fuck it stuff has to be re-energised somewhere...
Now there was a really interesting and diverse new music show.